History Main / RootingForTheEmpire

** The ancient Greeks despised Hades, the god of the dead and the underworld, since they didn't like dying. He has a somewhat better reputation today, in that he regularly kept his bargains with gods and mortals alike, and would only inflict a FateWorseThanDeath on someone who crossed him first. His kidnapping of Persephone is still rightly seen as vile, but even then Hades is ''faithful'' to her, which is more than his philandering brother Zeus can say. In some versions of the myth, Hades didn't kidnap Persephone at all but asked for her hand in marriage, meaning even this can be discounted. DependingOnTheWriter is in full effect with these myths.

* The villains just happen to be [[EvilisCool cooler]], [[EvilisSexy sexier]], or [[EvilPaysBetter better funded/payed]] than the heroes.

* In the Apple-produced "[[Advertising/GetAMac I'm a Mac/I'm a PC]]" commercials, many viewers tended to side with the PC, which came across as more of a likable everyman, while the Mac seemed like a smug tosser. They also tried to dismiss the PC advantages as boring stuff and push how great Macs are for artistic types, but the way they presented it came off as "the PC is better ''unless'' you're a professional artist". Over the following years, the fact that Macs were often unable to meet the demanding spec requirements of a lot of video games even as they became exponentially more widespread meant (while any computers that could were almost invariably [=PCs=]) meant that the PC ''also'' became the computer for "fun people" as well as for boring people, and the Mac ended up being good for little beyond art and non-memory-intensive business.

* In the Apple-produced "[[Advertising/GetAMac I'm a Mac/I'm a PC]]" commercials, many viewers tended to side with the PC, which came across as more of a likable everyman, while the Mac seemed like a smug tosser. They also tried to dismiss the PC advantages as boring stuff and push how great Macs are for artistic types, but the way they presented it came off as "the PC is better ''unless'' you're a professional artist".

* A common phenomenon in [[TurnOfTheMillennium the 1999-2002 timeframe]] on UsefulNotes/WorldWarII themed forums: a large percent of forum posters rooted for [[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons the Wehrmacht]], as the side with the [[TankGoodness coolest tanks]], [[CoolPlane planes]], [[BlingOfWar uniforms]] and dashing war heroes like Wittmann or Hartmann. It died slowly after 2002, most people gained a more balanced and neutral attitude for those involved in the war. However, the "Wehraboo" community has swelled again what with a new generation of internet users coming into contact with a more diverse and unorthodox political sphere, and its beliefs now range from modern-day promotion of the "Clean Wehrmacht" myth and German-inspired aristocratic conservatism (often acting as a cover for [[ANaziByAnyOtherName straight Nazism]]) to practically doing its detractors' job for them by [[StupidJetpackHitler idolizing German military capabilities even more intensely, and blaming the collapse of the Eastern Front solely on Russian weather]].

* A common phenomenon in [[TurnOfTheMillennium the 1999-2002 timeframe]] on UsefulNotes/WorldWarII themed forums: a large percent of forum posters rooted for [[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons the Wehrmacht]], as the side with the [[TankGoodness coolest tanks]], [[CoolPlane planes]], [[BlingOfWar uniforms]] and dashing war heroes like Wittmann or Hartmann. It died slowly after 2002, most people gained a more balanced and neutral attitude for those involved in the war.

* The heroes being extremely attractive and fetishists wanting to see them chained up, etc.

Some sociologists have pointed out that, as irrational as it sounds, many people, both when it comes to fiction and real life, will root for [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality whichever side reminds them the most of themselves]], even when that side is thoroughly immoral, totally unlikable or both. As simple as it is to always want to see people of your own ethnic group, religion, or social or political class - or who simply have the same goals or aspirations as yourself - triumph, it is understandable, because it's easy to convince yourself that if ''they'' lose, [[WeAreStrugglingTogether you will lose too]].

* The heroes have exaggerated ProtagonistCenteredMorality. Even if the bad guy [[CardCarryingVillain eats babies]], readers tend to root for them out of sheer spite, on the off-chance that Moonbeam Potter Swan might get her stupid face punched in. And if they [[DesignatedVillain don't eat babies,]] then hoo boy...
* The fans are ''themselves'' villains - or at least see themselves as such due to rejection by society and/or a guilt complex. More likely to happen in fictional examples.

** It's worth noting that unlike most fascist propaganda, which generally extolls the strength of its people, North Korean propaganda tends to sell how weak and helpless the North Korean people are - and thus how they need the Kim dynasty to protect them. Not that this makes the American wolves any less cool.

[[folder:Fanfiction]]

* Many ''WesternAnimation/{{FernGully|TheLastRainforest}}'' watchers sympathize with [[BigBad Hexxus]], who for the record is the incarnation of pollution in a heavily {{Anvilicious}} cartoon about how life is precious and pollution evil. Yet viewers seem to forget he's an abomination whose end game is to spread pollution across the world, which would threaten all life - in the film it's more open as to how severe of a threat he'd be, but his book version was stated as constantly trying to ''[[OmnicidalManiac kill all life]]'' including humans. But, that's what you get for casting Creator/TimCurry as your main villain against main characters that have been forgotten more easily (save for comic relief [[Creator/RobinWilliams Batty]]) - an antagonist who has fans and people who cheer for him and want him to win.

** Show of hands - how many people wanted Troy to win the war? Notable for being an in universe example as well, with the gods taking sides, Zeus himself supporting the Trojans. This goes back centuries, multiple medieval European royal dynasties would claim descent from Trojan refugees, and famous Frankish hero Roland claimed his sword had belonged to Achilles' ArchEnemy Hector.

* Right from the start, UsefulNotes/TonyaHarding had a ''huge'' fanbase, despite being viewed as an [[AcceptableTargets Acceptable Target]] by pretty much everyone else - which in itself fuels resentment and defiant sympathy on the part of the former group. It helps that [[TooBleakStoppedCaring even people who are sympathetic to Nancy Kerrigan have admitted that she isn't particularly likable either]].

** Quite a few fans are rather pro-Phyrexian, to the point where one rather prominent fansite is named "Phyrexia.com" (and themed around the plane). As Phyrexians are not so much AlwaysChaoticEvil as Always Completely Evil (they were created by a man who [[MoralEventHorizon lived as a nomad visiting various civilisations just so he could release plagues and wipe them all out - in one case just to see what would happen]]), the level of support they've garnered is almost shocking.
** The ''Scars of Mirrodin'' story arc brings the Phyrexians back into the limelight, and Wizards of the Coast being quite adamant on not revealing whether or not they'll win ([[http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/677 they did]]) just contributed to this - just watch the promotional videos on Youtube, often depicting Phyrexians committing NightmareFuel atrocities against the Mirrans, then look at all the comments proudly shouting Phyrexian slogans. According to the statistics from when ''Mirrodin Besieged'' came out, 51% of players supported the Phyrexians.

*** ''TabletopGame/BlackCrusade'' does a decent job at presenting the Chaos cultists' case. It admits that the Chaos Gods are cruel masters and that Chaos is anything but cuddly - but embracing Chaos is nonetheless humanity's only hope of surviving in any form. Meanwhile, the Imperium's brutal tyranny and persecution might be justified if there was any chance that it might ''work,'' but as it is, the Imperium is beyond saving and so the Adeptus Terra are committing atrocities for the sake of a lost cause.
** The reason that the Imperium is TheEmpire in the first place is because it is surrounded by unspeakable horrors that Lovecraft would be proud of. Ergo, Rooting For The Empire is, in this case, the only sane choice in an utterly insane galaxy. In the Imperium, there is law and order - even if it is draconian - and not every Imperial world is entirely a hellhole. They also have the largest amount of characters that seem likable and possibly the closest somebody can get to heroes in the setting. [[CreatorsPet Note there is a reason for this.]] [[MostWritersAreHuman Two, in fact.]]

* ''Webcomic/{{Sonichu}}'' - the [[DesignatedHero supposed]] good guys are a bunch of [[HolierThanThou self-righteous]], [[{{Jerkass}} morally repugnant]], [[GodModeSue demigod]] tools with zero likeability. Not helping is that the “villains” are explicitly fictionalized versions of real people.

** In an EvilVersusEvil example, Garfield goes to the movie theater to see ''The Sludge Monster Meets Vermin Man'' [[SawStarWarsTwentySevenTimes no fewer than nine times]], always wearing Sludge Monster memorabilia and holding up a sign cheering on the Sludge Monster - even though the Sludge Monster ''absolutely terrifies him'', to the point that he can't sleep at night for fear of being Sludged.

* The heroes being extremely attractive and fetishists wanting to see them chained up etc

[[folder:Mythology and Religion]]

** Likewise, a story about the Christianization of medieval Europe is going to get this regardless of how it is framed. If the narrative portrays it as a good thing, then that often goes hand in hand with casting the pagans as superstitious at best and guilty of HumanSacrifice at worst, making the audience likely to resent this demonization and consider the work to be propaganda. Contrariwise, works that side with the pagans make the Christians outright genocidal, meaning the Christians in the audience will ''also'' consider the work propaganda, and may defend their religion by [[LampshadeHanging pointing out that]] [[ArtisticLicenseHistory the pagans were rarely more tolerant than the Christians and that the Christians’ acts were exaggerated]].
** British people watching films about the American War of Independence tend to have a reaction slightly like this - the films often try to [[HistoricalVillainUpgrade paint the British in the worst possible light]], which American audiences might not have a problem with, but the British might.

* RootingForTheEmpire/LiveActionFilms

[[folder:Films -- Animated]]

* In ''WesternAnimation/{{The Hunchback of Notre Dame|Disney}}'', the reason Frollo was made a CompleteMonster was because Disney was trying to ''avoid'' this trope (it had happened so many times before.) Didn't work. Some even have a disturbing habit of justifying his, a massive hypocrite's, actions.

* ''Theatre/{{Hamilton}}'': Overlapping with AlternativeCharacterInterpretation, those who supported the real Jefferson's political positions may root for him during the Cabinet battles.

* In ''WesternAnimation/{{The Hunchback of Notre Dame|Disney}}'', the reason Frollo was made a CompleteMonster was because Disney was trying to ''avoid'' this trope (it had happened so many times before.) Didn't work. Some even have a disturbing habit of justifying his, a massive hypocrite's, actions.

* Nobody inspires "Rooting for the Empire" like Gaston! While it wasn't always this way, he has gotten quite popular over the years, arguably more so than either of the protagonists in ''WesternAnimation/BeautyAndTheBeast''. This is probably due to viewers finding his ego oddly charming than obnoxious (as intended), his ridiculously exaggerated but still catchy and lively song and for being a straight up LargeHam.

* From ''WesternAnimation/ChickenLittle'', plenty of viewers were cheering on the titular aliens who were vaporizing the citizens of Oakey Oats. It helps that the townspeople were such assholes who mercilessly bullied Chicken Little for no good reason.
* ''WesternAnimation/TheAristocats'' has Edgar, a butler who has loyally served Madame Adelaide Bonfamille and is angered to discover [[PetHeir her inheritance is going to her cats]] instead of him. His actions merely portray him as an AntiVillain and fans who sympathize with him claim he has justifiable reasons for abducting the cats. (And anyway, [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman they're just cats]].)
* The villain of the ''WesternAnimation/TheEmojiMovie''; [[StepfordSmiler Smiler]] is one of the most popular characters in the movie and what makes her even easier to root for is that everything she says is ''[[DesignatedVillain right]]''! Many people were really hoping she did kill Gene and the others. [[http://uproxx.com/movies/the-emoji-movie-running-diary/ One critic was "openly rooting for Gene to be executed."]]
* While this is combined with MisaimedFandom and DracoInLeatherPants, a few fans of the Disney movie ''WesternAnimation/ThePrincessAndTheFrog'' were rooting for [[BigBad Facilier]] and [[AntiVillain Lawrence]] to succeed in their goal, considering how Naveen was really unlikable in the beginning due to him being spoiled, lazy, and being [[InnocentlyInsensitive (unknowingly)]] inconsiderate towards Lawrence. Anyone who has been in Lawrence’s position would have been understandably fed up with putting up with that abuse, whether it was intentional or not.
* ''WesternAnimation/TurningRed'': There are fans that feel that Mei's ultimate philosophies can come across as misguided or selfish. Many of these fans tend to side more with Ming as a result, feeling that for all her flaws, she is the more reasonable one in the conflict and the more sympathetic character overall, [[spoiler:especially after her backstory is revealed]].

* Shylock from ''Theatre/TheMerchantOfVenice'' is a Jewish money-lender who is derided, insulted, and generally discriminated against by pretty much everyone. He serves as the main antagonist for the story and is trying to collect on a debt owed by Bassanio, a friend of the protagonist Antonio. Antonio had signed onto the debt as a guarantor and Shylock, who hated Antonio, saw a path to revenge by demanding a pound of Antonio's flesh as a penalty for defaulting on the loan. Thanks to some {{Rules Lawyer}}ing on behalf of the protagonists, Shylock is not only denied his revenge, the debt is annulled, his wealth is taken from him, and he is forced to convert to Christianity. [[ValuesDissonance At the time]] Shylock was considered a highly effective, loathsome villain, and his fate was [[LaserGuidedKarma just comeuppance for his greed]]. In today's world, the character is received much differently, to the point of being a highly sympathetic character. Modern productions often play Shylock as a tragic villain rather than his traditional "pure evil" role, and his famous "I am a Jew!" speech, with no modification whatsoever, today reads perfectly as the lamentations and frustrations of an oppressed people to discriminatory and dehumanizing treatment from the masses. That said, Shylock does provide the current pagequote for FairForItsDay.

* Iago from ''Theatre/{{Othello}}'', since he's an extremely charismatic character who turns RefugeInAudacity into an art form. Convincing Othello that his wife is cheating on him ''in a single scene'' doesn't exactly portray the hero in the best light, as well as the rest of the cast having a bad case of HorribleJudgeOfCharacter to the point where if they ever just talked to each other, they'd have quickly realised who was pulling all the strings (To be fair, he comes close to winning, and most of the "idiots" who believe him end up dead).

** The title character. At first glance, it's understandable--after being arrested on a trumped-up charge and sent to a prison/labor camp in Australia for fifteen years, Todd (a.k.a. Benjamin Barker) finally escapes and only desires to get revenge on Judge Turpin and Beadle Bamford, the two men who organized his destruction so they could help themselves to his wife (who they raped and drove to suicide [[spoiler: or so Todd thinks]]) and are now keeping his daughter prisoner. The problem comes when, after the Judge manages to escape Todd's grip the first time, he [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope goes absolutely insane]] and decides that he's going to kill everyone in London, reasoning that death will either be justice for the wicked or relief for the downtrodden. Fans still love Todd even ''after'' he cracks and continue to root for his campaign of vengeance, even though he, by his own admission, loses sight of that goal and gradually becomes completely deadened to the fact that he's a mass-murdering serial killer.
** There's also Mrs. Lovett, especially since [[WordOfGod Stephen Sondheim himself]] is on record as calling her the "true villain" of ''Sweeney.'' Whereas Todd is at least at first motivated by revenge for his wife, and even Judge Turpin (as despicable and repulsive as he is) has some degree of conscience (in his typically CutSong, he's depicted as a deeply repressed individual whose belief that SexIsEvil is so strong that it's permanently warped his understanding of the world and ability to interact with others; Sondheim has expressed frustration that the song is often removed, as it removes Turpin's more complex motivations), Mrs. Lovett is an unabashed opportunist whose only goal is bettering her own situation. It's clearest when she [[spoiler: outright lies to Todd about Lucy, his wife, being alive just because she's in love with him herself--she ''says'' she's doing it for Todd, but it's patently obvious that she's lying]], but it also manifests when she comes up with the idea of [[ImAHumanitarian turning Todd's victims into the meat for her pies]]. But she's so fun and funny that it's easy to forget what a horrible human being she is (the aforementioned plan is developed in a song that's pretty much a HurricaneOfPuns about how different professions will taste).

** The Thenardiers themselves also get this treatment. As the above poster mentioned, they're the only truly bad people in the musical--everyone else is fighting for ''some'' cause that is, to some degree, noble (freedom, justice, love, etc), but the Thenardiers are [[ItsAllAboutMe only concerned with their own standing]] and are willing to do anything, from ripping off customers to abusing their daughter to robbing corpses, to make a quick buck. They have no morals whatsoever, and are truly reprehensible...but they also get pretty much the only comic moments ("Master of the House" and "Beggar at the Feast," which are also insanely catchy) in an extremely dark show. Plus, they know how evil they are and revel in it, and nearly every production casts exceptionally [[LargeHam over-the-top]] actors in the roles (for proof, the film put Sacha Baron Cohen -- freaking ''Borat'' -- and Helena Bonham Carter in the parts), so it's easy to forget that they're disgusting, vile people.

* ''Theatre/MedievalTimesDinnerAndTournament'': Following his [[TookALevelInJerkass descent into villainy]] starting with the 2006 show, many fans have come to root for the Green Knight to win, if only because he's deliberately designed to be a HateSink destined to lose every time, and they want to see him [[TeamRocketWins actually earn a victory]].

* Shylock from ''Theatre/TheMerchantOfVenice'' is a Jewish money-lender who is derided, insulted, and generally discriminated against by pretty much everyone. He serves as the main antagonist for the story and is trying to collect on a debt owed by Bassanio, a friend of the protagonist Antonio. Antonio had signed onto the debt as a guarantor and Shylock, who hated Antonio, saw a path to revenge by demanding a pound of Antonio's flesh as a penalty for defaulting on the loan. Thanks to some {{Rules Lawyer}}ing on behalf of the protagonists, Shylock is not only denied his revenge, the debt is annulled, his wealth is taken from him, and he is forced to convert to Christianity. [[ValuesDissonance At the time]] Shylock was considered a highly effective, loathsome villain, and his fate was [[LaserGuidedKarma just comeuppance for his greed]]. In today's world, the character is received much differently, to the point of being a highly sympathetic character. Modern productions often play Shylock as a tragic villain rather than his traditional "pure evil" role, and his famous "I am a Jew!" speech, with no modification whatsoever, today reads perfectly as the lamentations and frustrations of an oppressed people to discriminatory and dehumanizing treatment from the masses. That said, Shylock does provide the current pagequote for FairForItsDay.

** The Thenardiers themselves also get this treatment. As the above poster mentioned, they're the only truly bad people in the musical--everyone else is fighting for ''some'' cause that is, to some degree, noble (freedom, justice, love, etc), but the Thenardiers are [[ItsAllAboutMe only concerned with their own standing]] and are willing to do anything, from ripping off customers to abusing their daughter to robbing corpses, to make a quick buck. They have no morals whatsoever, and are truly reprehensible...but they also get pretty much the only comic moments ("Master of the House" and "Beggar at the Feast," which are also insanely catchy) in an extremely dark show. Plus, they know how evil they are and revel in it, and nearly every production casts exceptionally [[LargeHam over-the-top]] actors in the roles (for proof, the film put Sacha Baron Cohen--freaking ''Borat''--and Helena Bonham Carter in the parts), so it's easy to forget that they're disgusting, vile people.

* Iago from ''Theatre/{{Othello}}'', since he's an extremely charismatic character who turns RefugeInAudacity into an art form. Convincing Othello that his wife is cheating on him IN A SINGLE SCENE doesn't exactly portray the hero in the best light, as well as the rest of the cast having a bad case of HorribleJudgeOfCharacter to the point where if they ever just talked to each other, they'd have quickly realised who was pulling all the strings (To be fair, he comes close to winning, and most of the "idiots" who believe him end up dead).

* While it wasn't always this way, Gaston has gotten quite popular over the years, arguably more so than either of the protagonists in ''WesternAnimation/BeautyAndTheBeast''. This is probably due to viewers finding his ego oddly charming than obnoxious (as intended), his ridiculously exaggerated but still catchy and lively song and for being a straight up LargeHam.

** The title character. At first glance, it's understandable--after being arrested on a trumped-up charge and sent to a prison/labor camp in Australia for fifteen years, Todd (a.k.a. Benjamin Barker) finally escapes and only desires to get revenge on Judge Turpin and Beadle Bamford, the two men who organized his destruction so they could help themselves to his wife (who they raped and drove to suicide [[spoiler: or so Todd thinks]]) and are now keeping his daughter prisoner. The problem comes when, after the Judge manages to escape Todd's grip the first time, he [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope goes absolutely insane]] and decides that [[KillEmAll he's going to kill everyone in London]], reasoning that death will either be justice for the wicked or relief for the downtrodden. Fans still love Todd even ''after'' he cracks and continue to root for his campaign of vengeance, even though he, by his own admission, loses sight of that goal and gradually becomes completely deadened to the fact that he's a mass-murdering serial killer.

* The point of view character in the ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' machinima series, ''Machinima/FalloutLoreTheStoryteller'', is quite proud of the directions that the Brotherhood of Steel has taken, despite the fact that most fans consider the Brotherhood to have TookALevelInJerkass to the point of becoming ''villains'' since ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}''.

* Whenever the [[DesignatedHero so-called hero]] is such an unrepentant {{Jerkass}} the villain [[JerksAreWorseThanVillains actually comes off as more bearable to watch]].

Compare DracoInLeatherPants (where the negative traits of a character or faction are outright ignored in {{Fanon}}) and its inverse RonTheDeathEater (where positive traits are ignored). Contrast LoveToHate (where the villain is just popular, but not always rooted for) and HateSink (characters made uncool, unsympathetic, and deliberately lacking any traits to root for). For cases where people rooting for the empire get their wish, see TheBadGuyWins.

* ''Comicbook/{{Fables}}'' does a pretty decent job of openly asking whether those in Fabletown should have been rooting for the empire; [[spoiler:Gepetto]] committed horrifying atrocities but ruled an empire where most inhabitants lived in peace and also [[spoiler:imprisoned a lot of frightfully powerful evil beings that as of the fall of his reign have begun to escape]]. On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that us mundies would definitely be getting the short end of the genocidal stick if [[spoiler:Gepetto]] had taken over our world.

* The Marvel event ''ComicBook/WorldWarHulk'' had most readers rooting for [[ComicBook/IncredibleHulk the Hulk]], mainly because of all the crap ComicBook/TheIlluminati put him through. It even happened in the story with many bystanders siding with the Hulk. Another major factor was the events of ''ComicBook/CivilWar''. It's hard to root for the heroes when they've forced all superhumans to work solely for the government, enslaving, imprisoning, and killing everyone who disobeys. It even leaked into ''ComicBook/SecretInvasion'', with some readers hoping that the Skrulls would manage to conquer Earth and enslave the {{muggle|s}} population to teach them a thing or two about freedom. While the Skrulls didn't win, ''this'' led to ''ComicBook/DarkReign'' with ComicBook/NormanOsborn as head cop, with some fans rooting for Osborn and his ComicBook/DarkAvengers, which was even Marvel's top selling book month after month during its run.