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*** Even without exotics, bronze can be used in firearms but it was only used for cannon grade because it was too heavy and expensive. Neither are a problem for them given that if a fairy /just/ asks you to spend extra on making or comissioning a firearm from unusual materials for your debt you should consider yourself very lucky indeed.


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*** Toot Toot and associates weren't reduced to fairy flavored salsa for killing a Summer Lady. That he continues to use them without any objection may suggest it is 'they're wildfey, aside from fairy obligation expecting them to play by the rules simply isn't in their nature'.

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** So he did write a short story, Zoo Day, partially from Mouse's point of view. He doesn't have intellectus, but he is very knowledgeable.



** There is a difference between saying that Mab's words were lies and saying that Mab lied, albeit a very small one. It is quite possible that Mab heard from somebody else that she could change Harry however she saw fit, believed it, and was able to speak it as the truth because she believed it. The words are lies, but not ''Mab's'' lies.

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** There is a difference between saying that Mab's words were lies and saying that Mab lied, albeit a very small one. It is quite possible that Mab heard from somebody else (or just believed based on her own experience) that she could change Harry however she saw fit, believed it, and was able to speak it as the truth because she believed it. The words are lies, but not ''Mab's'' lies.
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** There is a difference between saying that Mab's words were lies and saying that Mab lied, albeit a very small one. It is quite possible that Mab heard from somebody else that she could change Harry however she saw fit, believed it, and was able to speak it as the truth because she believed it. The words are lies, but not ''Mab's'' lies.
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*** We ''used'' to think that binocular vision thing was the case, but it turns out the brain is a lot more adaptable than we thought. It's called neuroplasticity. In the same way, if someone suffers a brain injury in the part of the brain that controls, say, speech, another part of the brain can learn to take over that job. It takes a lot of work, a lot of therapy, but it can be done. The implications for magic are interesting....
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** Presumably, yes. I'm not familiar with the book, but it's possible that some of the abilities Dracula demonstrates in the book are peculiar to him, or perhaps they're magic of a kind most blampires haven't mastered, since he has centuries of experience.
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** I think the Fae only have a problem with someone using the bane against them. They’re pretty chauvinistic that way.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: The Black Court and Bram Stoker]]
So the books state that Bram Stoker’s Dracula is basically a how-to guide for fighting and killing Black Court vampires, and the White Council was involved in the publishing and promoting of the novel in order to undermine the Black Court. Yet there are a number of vampire traits in Stoker’s work that don’t appear to be true for the BC. For instance, in the book Dracula is stabbed by a sailor but the knife passes through like thin air, he can control certain animals (he summons a swarm of rats), he can slip through tiny cracks, and has limited control over weather. Also a wild rose stalk placed on his coffin will prevent him from escaping it. (See the Dracula Wikipedia page for more.) So my question is, are all those things also true of the Black Court? Could Mavra be imprisoned in her coffin by a wild rose stalk? Can she slip through tiny gaps?
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** I think that there is a case to be argued that there is a difference between the "office" of the Erlking or Summer King, and the "person" of Herne the Hunter. I'm a little uncertain as to exactly ''how'' the Faerie courts affect natural phenomena, but let's just assume that somehow they do. If the Erlking or "Summer King" is a mantle of power, and mantles of power are organized along the idea of "checks and balances", than it makes sense that it would be a predator, designed to check the otherwise unfettered growth and vitality of the Summer Court. The Summer Court is just as happy spreading mass bacterial plagues as they are encouraging people to make babies (after all, bacteria are living things too!). In the same way, if the Winter King or "Santa Claus" is a mantle of power, than it makes sense that he would be kind, to check the otherwise unfettered callousness and ruthlessness of Winter. If that is true, than the Erlking and Santa Claus may both morally accountable for their actions in how they wield the power of their offices. When one becomes a police officer, after all, one ''has'' to enforce the law, but one also has what is known as "discretion" as to how one carries out one's duties. One can either be a genuinely caring and effective police officer, a drunken obsessive Jimmy McNulty, or a heartless Inspector Javert. If one fails to uphold one's duties as a police officer, than one faces ''severe'' penalties, because of the potential damage a police officer can do. Similarly, I suspect that when one acquires a mantle of power, one has a degree of discretion in how one carries out one's duties. When Maeve failed to perform her duties, she faced ''severe'' (i.e. fatal) consequences. (Of course, the difference is that while one ''chooses'' to be a police officer. The current Winter Lady had no choice, and evidence indicates that she cannot leave the post except in the advent of her death, which is quite objectionable). While Herne may "have" to hunt things to fulfill the function of his office, and the mantle re-wires the pleasure centres of Herne's brain so that he ''wants'' to, he still has a ''choice'' as to how he carries out his duties, and it still may be possible for him to neglect or abuse the powers of his office.

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** I think that there is a case to be argued that there is a difference between the "office" of the Erlking or Summer King, and the "person" of Herne the Hunter. I'm a little uncertain as to exactly ''how'' the Faerie courts affect natural phenomena, but let's just assume that somehow they do. If the Erlking or "Summer King" is a mantle of power, and mantles of power are organized along the idea of "checks and balances", than it makes sense that it would be a predator, designed to check the otherwise unfettered growth and vitality of the Summer Court. The Summer Court is just as happy spreading mass bacterial plagues as they are encouraging people to make babies (after all, bacteria are living things too!). In the same way, if the Winter King or "Santa Claus" is a mantle of power, than it makes sense that he would be kind, to check the otherwise unfettered callousness and ruthlessness of Winter. If that is true, than the Erlking and Santa Claus may both morally accountable for their actions in how they wield the power of their offices. When one becomes a police officer, after all, one ''has'' to enforce the law, but one also has what is known as "discretion" as to how one carries out one's duties. One can either be a genuinely caring and effective police officer, a drunken obsessive Jimmy McNulty, [=McNulty=], or a heartless Inspector Javert. If one fails to uphold one's duties as a police officer, than one faces ''severe'' penalties, because of the potential damage a police officer can do. Similarly, I suspect that when one acquires a mantle of power, one has a degree of discretion in how one carries out one's duties. When Maeve failed to perform her duties, she faced ''severe'' (i.e. fatal) consequences. (Of course, the difference is that while one ''chooses'' to be a police officer. The current Winter Lady had no choice, and evidence indicates that she cannot leave the post except in the advent of her death, which is quite objectionable). While Herne may "have" to hunt things to fulfill the function of his office, and the mantle re-wires the pleasure centres of Herne's brain so that he ''wants'' to, he still has a ''choice'' as to how he carries out his duties, and it still may be possible for him to neglect or abuse the powers of his office.
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** Also, many common modern firearms have many portions made of plastics and composites for the purposes of saving weight--famously Glock's "plastic guns". Often this includes the grips and stocks, so with careful handling and the use of gloves it shouldn't be too difficult for fae to wield them.
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** It is possible to make guns out of ceramics and plastics, it's just expensive and inefficient to do so... unless you're, y'know, someone who can't hold iron-based weaponry.
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** Excellent point. Well, we know they have some kind of non-steel metal they make their armour and weapons out of (Lloyd in ''Summer Knight,'' Fix and Kringle in ''Cold Days'', et al), so perhaps they used that to make guns?

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** Excellent point. Well, we know they have some kind of non-steel metal they make their armour and weapons out of (Lloyd in ''Summer Knight,'' Fix and Kringle in ''Cold Days'', et al), so perhaps they used that to make guns?guns and bullets?

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* I remember a segment in ''Small Favor'' where three of the Gruff brothers try to wax Harry with handheld firearms, which is a cut above their fairy kin in terms of ingenuity and pragmatism. The problem is; aren't those made out of metal? (Harry proves in short order that Gruffs are NOT immune to steel). This raises a number of issues, such as how they got their hands on the things in the first place, or how were they able to handle "the bane" once they did.

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* I remember a segment in ''Small Favor'' where three of the Gruff brothers try to wax Harry with handheld firearms, which is a cut above their fairy kin in terms of ingenuity and pragmatism. The problem is; is, aren't those made out of metal? (Harry proves in short order that Gruffs are NOT immune to steel). This raises a number of issues, such as how they got their hands on the things in the first place, or how were they able to handle "the bane" once they did.


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** Excellent point. Well, we know they have some kind of non-steel metal they make their armour and weapons out of (Lloyd in ''Summer Knight,'' Fix and Kringle in ''Cold Days'', et al), so perhaps they used that to make guns?
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** A fair suggestion. Yet from what "Tiny" said in the same book, I got the impression that using "The Bane" as a weapon (even in a life or death situation) was a horrid taboo throughout the summer court.

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** A fair suggestion. Yet from what "Tiny" said in the same book, I got the impression that using "The Bane" as a weapon (even in a life or death situation) was a horrid taboo throughout the summer court. Fairies seem to be not just physically, but also mentally and culturally repulsed by the stuff.
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** A fair suggestion. Yet from what "Tiny" said in the same book, I got the impression that using "The Bane" as a weapon (even in a life or death situation) was a horrid taboo throughout the summer court.
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** Maybe they wore gloves?
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Faeries using guns? What are they made out of?]]
* I remember a segment in ''Small Favor'' where three of the Gruff brothers try to wax Harry with handheld firearms, which is a cut above their fairy kin in terms of ingenuity and pragmatism. The problem is; aren't those made out of metal? (Harry proves in short order that Gruffs are NOT immune to steel). This raises a number of issues, such as how they got their hands on the things in the first place, or how were they able to handle "the bane" once they did.
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** Incorrect. Look up the difference between declarative and procedural memory for an example. See also Capgras Syndrome, in which the emotional associations with familiar people are inaccessible - sufferers claim loved ones are somehow perfect imposters who have replaced their actual families, and cannot be convinced otherwise.
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* Kumori said they would be just as happy to see Harry's copy destroyed. There were collecting the books to try to keep the other necromancers from reading them, not because they needed the book themselves.
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*** You seem to be taking the story a bit personally ("do you really expect me to believe...") (and I'm not at all sure the author reads this forum?) Anycase: of course the claims are consistent, if true, but it's not clear (I'll have to read the story myself; I intend to) that Harry verifies for himself that _all_ the claims (including the length of relationship) are true. Still, there's no actual contradiction (or even improbability, depending on time, place, culture, ...- the cultural context in which her not being a virgin would be more likely is a relatively recent thing).
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[[Folder:Peabody and Cowl and "Die Lied der Erlking"]]

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[[Folder:Peabody [[folder:Peabody and Cowl and "Die Lied der Erlking"]]
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::: You could also liken it to the speech Haley hears in ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'' before the siege -- even if she's so tough to hit that the enemy needs a natural 20 to even touch her, if enough people are swinging ''someone is going to hit her''. Dresden doesn't operate in a world where HitPoints are a thing -- one good hit can be all it takes; just ask Aurora or Maeve or Lily.
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-->''4. if the elders of the black court could have taken mab, then HOW ON EARTH did any mere force of humans manage to go up and stake them? i mean, they should've wiped out anything that was coming after them if they can take on MAB herself...just a thought\\
Power in the spirit world isn't the same thing as power in the material world. And a one-on-thirtyish fight (Mab vs the elders of the BC) is WAY different than a one-on-20,000 fight (a BC vampire against a modest mortal city). Especially when the 20,000 know what your weaknesses are, and how to kill you with them. Smiley And that's assuming that you don't have a saint, or an independent wizard, or a shaman, a Knight of the Cross or some other champion, or other spiritual allies on your side which was not uncommon. Hell, for that matter, you might well be aided by vampires from the other Courts. *Everyone* resented how powerful the Blacks had become.

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-->''4.--->''4. if the elders of the black court could have taken mab, then HOW ON EARTH did any mere force of humans manage to go up and stake them? i mean, they should've wiped out anything that was coming after them if they can take on MAB herself...just a thought\\
Power in the spirit world isn't the same thing as power in the material world. And a one-on-thirtyish fight (Mab vs the elders of the BC) is WAY different than a one-on-20,000 fight (a BC vampire against a modest mortal city). Especially when the 20,000 know what your weaknesses are, and how to kill you with them. Smiley And that's assuming that you don't have a saint, or an independent wizard, or a shaman, a Knight of the Cross or some other champion, or other spiritual allies on your side which was not uncommon. Hell, for that matter, you might well be aided by vampires from the other Courts. *Everyone* resented how powerful the Blacks had become.\\
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*** We don't see it because it's backstory stuff, that the supernatural at large has learned to ''avoid''; like the whole thing with Stoker, which reduced the Black Court from 30 major elders who ruled half of Eastern Europe to roving gangs of easily-dispatched parasites; or would otherwise break the Masquerade entirely on a large scale. We don't see it because the threat of it is enough -- or do you think that nuclear weapons are not a believable danger just because nobody's used one against someone else in 70 years? And we are not told "plain old torches and pitchforks can take down any supernatural threat, even the Faerie Queens." That statement is grossly, hyperbolically inaccurate. You want to see normal humans take on a supernatural threat? White Night, where a team consisting of nothing but a dozen guys with guns ''wastes'' a cavern full of overpowered ghouls. Or Aftermath, where Murphy almost singlehandedly takes out a cell of Fomor with her gun and a bit of experience. The point is, an individual supernatural creature is seriously outnumbered by humans. Yes, a vampire can take on a dozen humans easily and win -- but 20? 30? If they're armed with modern weapons and/or the vampire's weaknesses? That vampire is screwed. Jim Butcher has outright said that the reason the Black Court or some other supernatural nasty hasn't just buggered off to some third-world backwater and taken over is because humans have nukes.\\\
From the man himself:
-->''4. if the elders of the black court could have taken mab, then HOW ON EARTH did any mere force of humans manage to go up and stake them? i mean, they should've wiped out anything that was coming after them if they can take on MAB herself...just a thought\\
Power in the spirit world isn't the same thing as power in the material world. And a one-on-thirtyish fight (Mab vs the elders of the BC) is WAY different than a one-on-20,000 fight (a BC vampire against a modest mortal city). Especially when the 20,000 know what your weaknesses are, and how to kill you with them. Smiley And that's assuming that you don't have a saint, or an independent wizard, or a shaman, a Knight of the Cross or some other champion, or other spiritual allies on your side which was not uncommon. Hell, for that matter, you might well be aided by vampires from the other Courts. *Everyone* resented how powerful the Blacks had become.
(and shouldn't the black court be the most numerous? in blood rites, ebenezer mentioned after a few weeks, there would be dozens or even hundreds of vamps, so y don't the black court vamps just settle down in africa or india and start biting away?)\\
Nukes. :)\\
You get all /that/ assertive, and you risk stirring mortals into awareness. And we monkeys are /dangerous/ in large groups, especially with all our ferromancy (technology).\\
There's also a psychological issue on behalf of the vampires. Bear in mind that evolution made a pretty brutal selection among the Black Court. The ones who survived and prospered were those who avoided notice, respected the potential danger mortals represented, and who were generally quick to leave town rather than charge into a confrontation.\\
In any personal-scale conflict, a mature BC vamp is gonna tear holes through any mortal or White Court vampire. But the mortals started cheating, and doing all their fighting in angry mobs, and creating weapons that were ridiculously overpowered for the job of killing one another which could actually inconvenience, wound, or even kill a BC vamp. Murphy did all right in that BC nest, because she had allies, appropriate weapons and (most importantly) knowledge and a plan.''
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*** That unfortunately raises another problem. If magical creatures are so powerful, why bother hiding at all? It raises a significant problem throughout the series, the lack of "SHOW, DON'T TELL". The reader is TOLD numerous times that humanity can somehow, through plain old torches and pitchforks, take down any supernatural threat, even those as powerful as the Faerie Queens. However, we are SHOWN, repeatedly, in the events described in FOOL MOON, DEAD BEAT, SMALL FAVOR, CHANGES, etc., that masses of ordinary people have no chance whatsoever against the supernatural. Not once is there a scene where a real heavy-hitting supernatural figure is taken down by normal people. Not once is the reader allowed to actually witness such an event happen. Rather, it boils down to one group of supernatural entities (usually Harry and friends) taking down another. And DON'T say that it's because humanity EN MASSE poses a threat. History is replete with examples of a numerically inferior force triumphing time and again due to superior knowledge, training, and technology and firepower, which the supernatural community has in spades. In addition, getting a group of people to organize for anything is a logistical nightmare, and the widespread uses of veils, psychomancy, and other such magic would render such a threat moot. The idea that some peasant mob with torches and pitchforks would pose a threat to any competent supernatural creature, outside of authorial fiat, becomes highly unlikely to say the least.
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** Being on the same side doesn't mean they're aware of each other. The Black Council/The Circle/Whatever They Call Themselves may operate as independent cells without much, if any, contact between any two branches, so that if one gets caught, he can't give the rest of them away.
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[[/folder]]

[[Folder:Peabody and Cowl and "Die Lied der Erlking"]]
* If Peabody was aligned with Cowl, why did Cowl need a copy of "Die Lied der Erlking" at all? He seeks to obtain one from Dresden (That's when he first reveals himself to him). But surely, Peabody could've supplied Cowl one? He wrote the book. He must surely own a copy of his own book. Or the notes he used to write the book. Cowl could've never revealed himself to Dresden, since by all logic, he shouldn't need the info. And we're sort of implied Peabody's already a traitor then as he's implied to be the one who gave the Reds the location of the Congo hospital everyone had retreated to.
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** "Masquerade spell", hell: plain ol' ''natural selection'' could've done the same. How many of the bystanders who've encountered magic, over the course of the series, have actually come out of the experience for the better? How many have instead died, been enslaved by magical creatures of one stripe or another, been chucked into loony bins or otherwise suffered a loss of reputation, safety, and/or peace of mine? And how many of those who actually try to ''oppose'' it end up drained to despair by a Skavis, ripped in half by a skinwalker, or tied up in spiritual barbed wire by a Nightmare ghost? In a 'Verse where acknowledging that the supernatural exists can ''and does'' get you selectively targeted by its manifestations, willful blindness becomes survival instinct, not stupidity at all.

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* Odin has probably ''forgotten'' more about portals than Harry's mom ever knew in the first place. He might even have known that particular portal was there before the Maya ''built'' Chichen Itza. Alternately, once Harry's rescue party and the Reds turned the site into an active battleground, Odin's status as a war-god let him link into it from his einherjars' training grounds due to that shared element of bloodshed.

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* Odin has probably ''forgotten'' more about portals than Harry's mom ever knew in the first place. He might even have known that particular portal was there before the Maya ''built'' Chichen Itza. Alternately, once Harry's rescue party and the Reds turned the site into an active battleground, Odin's status as a war-god let him link into it from his einherjars' training grounds due to that shared element of bloodshed. For the hop back to Chicago, he homed in on one of ''Harry's'' previous battle-sites in the city, that Margaret's insight-gift couldn't have documented because it only became a battlefield after her death.
* Use of the Black Staff may also have been a factor in finding a Nevernever short-cut, as Ebenezer seemed to have brought the escaping White Council party through to Chicago ''very'' directly at the climax of ''Proven Guilty''.

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In Changes Harry and the others take a portal straight from a place in the woods to Giza and before that had transported from a baseball field. Yet in Skin Game it says that portals have to be formed in certain areas to get to the right environment. What's the deal?

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In Changes ''Changes'' Harry and the others take a portal straight from a place in the woods to Giza and before that had transported from a baseball field. Yet in Skin Game ''Skin Game'' it says that portals have to be formed in certain areas to get to the right environment. What's the deal?


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* Odin has probably ''forgotten'' more about portals than Harry's mom ever knew in the first place. He might even have known that particular portal was there before the Maya ''built'' Chichen Itza. Alternately, once Harry's rescue party and the Reds turned the site into an active battleground, Odin's status as a war-god let him link into it from his einherjars' training grounds due to that shared element of bloodshed.

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