History Headscratchers / DissidiaFinalFantasy

* Why is the Emperor's ExBurst Entice of all things? It did appear in Final Fantasy II but it wasn't something the Emperor ever did as far as I can recall and it really doesn't suit his character. Nor is it useually even a damaging attack. His ExBurst input failure Hurricane makes a lot more sense as it's something very powerful he did in game and yet they went with Entice...It's so random there must be a connection I'm missing.

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** [[MostAnnoyingSound Because, for some completely unknown reason, they changed it for "I'll crush you!"]] Not being cheesy also isn't a justification, as The Emperor and his "Ungahh!" [[SoBadItsGood is just]]...

*** The D&D manual itself says that "alignment is a tool for developing your character's identity. '''It is ''not'' a straightjacket for restricting your character'''." (Emphasis added by me.) So too much argument over the alignment of a character who isn't canonically given one defeats the point of the alignment system. Sure, some characters are totally freaking obvious in terms of alignment (for instance, there's no way that SonicTheHedgehog is ''anything'' but ChaoticGood), but the characters we're talking about here are more complex than that, and shouldn't be labeled so casually.

** Keep in mind who he's working with: Garland is basically the larval form of Chaos, the Emperor is the king of Hell itself, the Cloud of Darkness and Exdeath are EldrichAbomindation in humanoid forms who are completely obsessed with destruction, Golbez is working behind the scenes to help Cosmos and end the eternal conflict, Kefka has the powers of the Warring Triad and wants to destroy everything and everyone, Sephiroth is a super Soldier obsessed with playing mind games with Cloud, Ultimecia is a Sorceress who is basically a magical demi-god who can bend the laws of space and time over and make them her bitch and Jecht is a just a good guy who wants to reunite with Tidus and go home. Of all of the above the only one who would care or even be somewhat impressed is Kefka, and only to use as a tool to kill everyone else, which is exactly what he tries to do in the game. The others aren't that impressed and Kuja's at a major disadvantage since he's not on his home turf where he knows all the players in the game and can manipulate them from behind the scenes. Kuja is overly dramatic, which messes up his plans and makes him appear foolish. His power is impressive but so is almost everyone else's on Chaos' side.

*** This is what I figure. After Chaos was defeated by the Warriors of Light, he decided to get revenge, and being a master of exploiting the StableTimeLoop, bootstrapped himself into a god. Then he got the time-traveling Ultimecia to meet up with Garland and they gathered up the rest of the villains [[spoiler:and Gabranth]] and the rest just fell into place. Essentially, Chaos was playing [[TimeyWimeyBall Blitzball with time.]]

*** [[spoiler:Dude, they managed to find playable representation of the [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXI Final Fantasy MMORPG]] for Dissidia. I'm sure SOMEONE from VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII is going to find his way into this mess.]]
*** [[spoiler:Judge Gabranth just showed up and he is AWESOME!]]
** A fanfic this troper read (yes, this is hardly WordOfGod, but it's just speculation) posited that each ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' BigBad acted as an agent of Chaos, which the fic presented as some kind of evil PowersThatBe. Hence why almost all of them ended up being a nihilistic OmnicidalManiac or were all along. Kind of like how [[spoiler:each BigBad in ''Franchise/SailorMoon'' turned out be an aspect of Chaos, the BigBad of the universe]].
** [[spoiler:Everyone who posted to the above ought to go [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/psp/file/939394/55511 here]] and read the whole thing. Chaos / Garland IS addressed, and in an ...unexpected way.]]
** Report 12, told from Garland's POV, reveals that [[spoiler:Garland was freed from Final Fantasy's StableTimeLoop and brought to World B by Shinryu]] and encountered Cid, Cosmos, and Dissidia's Chaos, who he named after his own OneWingedAngel:

* Keep in mind that this troper has only played the first game, and please help her understand. So on the topic of Kuja, this troper is replaying ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX'' and has just realized something about Kuja. Namely that Kuja. Is. Bad. Ass. Seriously! He might be the single most effective villain in Final Fantasy history, barring ''maybe'' the Emperor and Kefka. Still, he's got a kill count to rival both of theirs, and he achieves the ultimate power (his mega-Trance) that he seeks, just as they do when they [[spoiler: take over hell]] and [[spoiler: screw with the Warring Triad]] respectively. Plus he [[spoiler: nukes a whole planet with minimal effort,]] so there's that. Throughout the entire game he's barely even inconvenienced by his enemies, and when he is, he turns it to his advantage in a matter of minutes. He takes a MEGAFLARE TO THE FACE and he LAUGHS. The same Mega Flare that later obliterates an entire fleet - including the last person to insult Kuja to his face. Heck, I don't even think [[spoiler: Zidane and company technically defeat him! He just sort of gets impatient and kills everyone on the battlefield with Ultima and then summons Necron...somehow...let's not get into that.]] So [[DudeWheresMyRespect why the hell does everyone treat Kuja like he's some immature, ineffective kid?]] Wouldn't the Emperor, at least, have recognized that Kuja has both power and cunning enough to rival his? And why doesn't Kuja stick up for himself in the same way he would in his home game - with a rhyming couplet and a [[PrecisionFStrike fucking]] Mega Flare '''to the face?'''
** Familiar with the saying "Act like a kid and get treated like one?" Kuja may have been as wise or dangerous than a lot of the other villains; but he acted like a pouty, narcissistic sod to the point where everybody discredited him. Honestly, if I showed up there and one of my team-mates was a girly-man in a thong, I wouldn't be taking him seriously either.

** Garland did all that while [[spoiler:being used as a weapon by Onrac. He had the powers of Chaos at the time, allowing him to defeat Omega and banish it to the Rift.]] by the time your party in FFI comes around, [[spoiler:he has killed you, become Chaos, created the Fiends of Chaos from the crystals of the past, and wiped his own memory. As he says at the end of FFI, he does this so that you will kill him, allowing the Fiends of Chaos to send him backward in time to where he becomes Chaos.]]

* [[spoiler:How does Squall still exist if his father now, thanks to the Manikins, [[RetGone never even existed in the first place]]?]]
** Same way [[spoiler:[[Series/DoctorWho Amy Pond]]]] continued to exist after her parents fell through the crack in her wall. Chunks have been clipped out of history without anything new scrawled in to replace 'em.

** You're right that they didn't cease to exist ''in their own games''. Yet, in terms of the Dissidia universe and the FF worlds in said universe: ''they have ceased to exist''. Once the 13th cycle ends, [[spoiler:they will not return to their original worlds. Likewise, Squall presumably disappears since he no longer has a father. My guess is that it was a delayed reaction due to being in "the eye of the storm".]]
** [[spoiler:Actually, in the character descriptions, it says that all those who were killed by Manikins were brought back after the last cycle and sent back to there own worlds like the original ten due to Cosmos finally winning.]]

* If [[spoiler:being defeated by a manikin makes you {{Ret Gone}}d from the War of Chaos and Cosmos]], why doesn't that happen for the people defeated by [[spoiler:Warrior of Light, if [=WoL=] is just a ''really'' high-quality manikin]]?
** That is a ''very'' good question. An AnachronicOrder Induced PlotHole, perhaps? And technically speaking, if [[spoiler:Cosmos were ever to fight, wouldn't the same deal apply for her since she's more or less the same as [=WoL=], only ''better'' (and with the memories of Garland/Chaos' foster mother)?]]

*** According to what I read on the character page, that's exactly it. They beat up the warriors so furiously, even after killing them, that [[spoiler:Shinryu just can't get anything more out of them and therefore doesn't bother to revive them for the next time around. It's not until the war is over that they are restored and sent back home.]] Though that admittedly leaves out individuals like Gabranth and Shanttoto.

* Why did [=WoL=] seem to lose his memories of the 12th cycle if [[spoiler:he actually ''survived'' the cycle? (He was the only Warrior of Cosmos to do so, in fact!)]]

*** Scenario 000 revealed [[spoiler:that those who can no longer give their strength or memories to Shinryu are either erased or sent away by him and not brought back into the conflict. So it's possible that she outlived her usefulness if she wasn't brought back.]]

* I think it's been asked before, but what is the exact relationship between Garland and Chaos in the Dissidia series? In Dissidia, Garland explicitly states that he and Dissidia's Chaos are the same being, and that after the heroes defeat him he was sent back in time to become Chaos himself -- as he did in Final Fantasy 1. Dissidia 012 seemingly averts this by having Chaos be an artificial bioweapon created by Cid of the Luftain hundreds of years prior to the events of Final Fantasy 1. From what I've been able to understand, Garland's monologue in Report 12 indicates that he was freed from the Garland --> Final Fantasy 1 Chaos time loop by [[spoiler:Shinryu]] and brought to World B to corrupt Dissidia Chaos, who he empathized with due to the time loop in Final Fantasy 1, and that he named Dissidia Chaos after his own OneWingedAngel form. Further muddying the issue, it is stated by Penelo in Garland's 012 equipment profile that his 3rd alt. is actually what he looks like under his armour, lending credit to the Garland = Dissidia Chaos = Final Fantasy 1 Chaos theory. Another question is that if the Warrior of Light was born during the Dissidia games, how did Garland know who he was when he and Prishe came across him, but I read somewhere that WordOfGod stated that [[TimeyWimeyBall Garland was taken after his defeat at the hands of the Warrior, while the final cutscene sets the stage for the beginning of Final Fantasy 1.]]

* Why is it that the plot and setting of Dissidia match so well with [[VideoGame/DragonForce Dragon Force]]?

* The names of the Manikin versions of the ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'' cast. Squall's Manikin is called "Transient Lion", and Ultimecia's is called "Transient Witch". [[{{IncrediblyLamePun}} So why isn't Laguna's Manikin called]] [[{{ChroniclesOfNarnia}} "Transient Wardrobe"?]]

** Keep in mind who he's working with: Garland is basically the larval form of Chaos, the Emperor is the king of Hell itself, the Cloud of Darkness and EX-Death and EldrichAbomindation in humanoid forms who are completely obsessed with destruction, Golbez is working behind the scenes to help Cosmos and end the eternal conflict, Kefka has the powers of the Warring Triad and wants to destroy everything and everyone, Sephiroth is a super Soldier obsessed with playing mnd games with Cloud, Ultimecia is a Sorceress who is basically a magical demi-god who can bend the laws of space and time over and make them her bitch and Jecht is a just a good guy who wants to reunite with Tidus and go home. Of all of the above the only one who would care or even be somewhat impressed is Kefka, and only to use as a tool to kill everyone else, which is exactly what he tries to do in the game. The others aren't that impressed and Kuja's ata major disadvantage since he's not on his home turf where he knows all the players in the game and can manipulate them from behind the scenes. Kuja is overly dramatic, which messes up his plans and make shim appear foolish. His power is impressive but so is almost everyone else's on Chaos' side.

** Since when did a thief or a terrorrist have to be free-spirited? Just because they are breaking the law doesn't mean they are against Order. You are confusing being "Lawful" (a ''DungeonsAndDragons'' term) with being on the side of "Order".

**** From my understanding of the plot, Chaos had brought 10 villains from the FinalFantasy multiverse, meaning it's not the same Chaos as the one from [=FFI=]. Cosmos has countered by bringing the heroes. Too bad they are not bringing out the guys from [=FFXII=].

** A fanfic this troper read (yes, this is hardly WordOfGod, but it's just speculation) posited that each FinalFantasy BigBad acted as an agent of Chaos, which the fic presented as some kind of evil PowersThatBe. Hence why almost all of them ended up being a nihilistic OmnicidalManiac or were all along. Kind of like how [[spoiler:each BigBad in ''Franchise/SailorMoon'' turned out be an aspect of Chaos, the BigBad of the universe]].

* The names of the Manikin versions of the FinalFantasyVIII cast. Squall's Manikin is called "Transient Lion", and Ultimecia's is called "Transient Witch". [[{{IncrediblyLamePun}} So why isn't Laguna's Manikin called]] [[{{ChroniclesOfNarnia}} "Transient Wardrobe"?]]

* I can understand them giving a generic name to "Warrior Of Light", but "Onion Knight" just seems lazy. Why not just call him Luneth?
** Because he isn't Luneth. In the original VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII, the heroes didn't have default names. Luneth didn't exist until the remake for DS. However, Onion Knight has an alternate costume that makes him look like Luneth.
*** If anyone, he's Ingus. Blond hair & red onion armor.
*** For the record, his alt costume looks like Luneth.
*** And now his third costume makes him look more like the Unnamed Hero. He's a CompositeCharacter, OK?

* Terra's treatment in the story mode's opening just bugs me. The other nine heroes get show various levels of {{badass}}ery. Even the [[BrattyHalfPint Onion Knight]]. Terra deflects a spell and has to be rescued. She may have her timidness from the beginning of her own game, but even then, she wasn't averse to setting something on fire if it threatened her. Would it really have been so difficult for them to show off some of her magic? She has Holy, Meteor, Meltdown, and Ultima. Even if they didn't want to show skills the characters have to learn, she still has Fire, Blizzara, Flood, and Tornado to work with. No matter what, she has more than enough magic for them to have shown her in a proper mage duel with Kefka, Golbez, Ultimecia, or Kuja.
** Actually, for what it's worth, Terra handles her fight with Kefka pretty well, even exhibiting an ability that she doesn't get in the actual game: Teleport. Not to mention that, out of all the pre-battle cutscenes, she's one of very few Warriors of Cosmos to not get ''hit'' before their battle. Consider:
*** Firon gets trapped in a huge explosion by the Emperor
*** Onion Knight has to tank a huge Particle Beam
*** Cecil gets zapped by Cosmic Ray
*** Bartz has trouble fighting Exdeath's ''sword''
*** Cloud barely manages to block a Scintilla attack
*** Squall is pretty much completely at Ultimecia's teleporting, time-stopping mercy
*** Tidus gets falcon punch'd by Jecht.
** Only Warrior of Light, Terra, and Zidane get to the main fight without getting hit or knocked away at least once. She teleported to try and get some breathing room; there were too many spells flying around for her to put up a real offensive. See also the opening cinematic, where Terra singlehandedly reflects a full salvo of magic missiles from Ultimecia. Though, I do admit that the other heroes [[HeroicResolve standing up after those attacks]] makes them look a lot more BadAss.
*** That's what bugs me. That's '''ALL''' she does. There's no reason why she couldn't have been shown using some of her own magic. At the very least, she could have been shown launching a fireball at Ultimecia before needing to be rescued from Mateus' trap. At least it's a consolation that in game she demonstrates how BadAss a SquishyWizard can be, but that makes the CutsceneIncompetence in the opening more jarring.
*** To be fair, we don't see the entire fight, for the next thing we see is Squall and Sephiroth in mid-battle.
*** That, and we see about ''five seconds'' of each character in the opening. They don't have time for much. And deflecting magic missiles isn't showing off Terra's magical prowess? Not to mention that all the deflected missiles aren't just scattered, but '''''redirected to another Warrior of Chaos'''''.
*** That's something every character can do. Haven't you ever done a well timed block? Or had one used against you? It's still not showing her power in a way that makes her look like she can stand with the other Cosmos warriors.
*** Not quite. Every character can block and redirect magical strikes, but only if you time it well, and only for a limited period of time. What ''Terra'' does, though, is throw up a magic shield that stops a very long ''salvo'' of attacks cold and scatters them for a sustained amount of time.
*** It seems like most of the opening video was really to show the characters struggling against each other, not to show any hero's power in a really big way. If you want to look at some of the other heroes; Onion Knight's only real act in that same video is to bang his sword on Garland's helmet a few times and outrun one of The Emperor's traps. And all we see of Cecil is him tanking a Particle Beam and changing classes. As the guy above me said, there's not much time for the heroes to do much that is really impressive in that video; the villains do all the really impressive stuff there.
*** Oh, and in response to what you said before, she ''does'' launch a fireball at Ultimecia before stepping onto Mateus's trap seal. It's just a little hard to see with all the magic missiles flying about. It's just before she does that huge backflip while dodging Ultimecia's magic arrows.
*** And as someone pointed out earlier, the nine boys were struggling too. So, what? Boys are allowed to get their asses handed to them but girls aren't?
*** Of course girls can get their asses handed to them when the result is the same as the guys getting their asses handed to them. That was not the case here. The guys either got out of their problems themselves or helped each other in a way that makes them look stronger. Terra was made to look like a standard damsel in distress.
*** [[SarcasmMode Yeah, because Bartz totally looked stronger clinging for dear life while Exdeath held the void out. And Onion Knight was so]] BadAss [[SarcasmMode the way he was launched by the Emperor's traps.]]
*** The opening was also designed to show that the characters were working together. Bartz needed Zidane and Tidus to bail him out when Exdeath had him dangling from the cliff, which, if anything, makes him come off as even weaker than Terra, who was able to hold her own against Ultimecia for a fair amount of time before the sheer number of pointy, death-causing magic arrows reaches an overwhelming point, at which point she she fires off one last fire spell before flipping off to try her hand elsewhere. It's only then that the Emperor gets her in a trap. The other characters coming in to bail her out really seems to me to be more of a way of showing that, again, the characters are helping each other, and to give Cloud and the Warrior of Light something more to do in the video.
*** Let's be fair, though. Bartz was against '''''[[GameBreaker Exdeath]]'''''.
*** Well, she only looked like a damsel in distress because the villains were trying to capture her, not kill her. And why were they trying to capture her? Because of the ''raw power'' she commands. Bartz, Zidane, and Onion Knight had stints as a male DistressedDamsel, too. The only reason Terra didn't fight her way out like they did is because Onion Knight had had to knock her out when she started rampaging, and she wasn't able to wake up until he had already made his way to her. And because in her case, the villains actually cared about keeping her hostage.
*** They weren't trying to take her hostage in the opening. I've already stated that it's her treatment in the opening that bothers me, not her treatment in-game.
*** And she wasn't a DamselInDistress in the opening, so what exactly are you complaining about again?
*** And the answer to that is that she pulled off something fairly awesome anyway and wasn't made out to be any more helpless than some of the other combatants, such as Bartz and the Onion Knight.
** And another thing about Terra; in her story mode, Kefka basically tells her she's nothing but a force for destruction, like ''him''. Coupled with the fact that her powers seemed to be going out of control, I think she's allowed to be scared and upset.
*** My issue is not with her in-game personality. My issue is that in the opening she was made to look almost helpless when even in the beginning of her own game she was anything but.
*** I beg to differ on that last point. Remember when she got hopelessly cornered in the Narshe Mines and Locke had to rescue her? After her amnesia took hold, she was very vulnerable, scared, and confused. Much like Destiny Oddessy VI, now that I think about it.
*** Point taken about the Narshe mines, but it's not very long after that that she starts setting magiteck armored knights on fire even though there's been almost zero change to her personality. It's not GameplayAndStorySegregation either, casting a fire spell triggers a conversion with Locke and Edgar that's continued after the battle.
*** Yes, she does it in self-defense and is extremely self-conscious about her powers and how she can be abused. And she ''still'' needs Edgar and Locke to help her out. She doesn't gain anything close to confidence for the first half of the game and she's only a one-woman army in some of the cutscenes.

* A joke fan-made screenshot made it seem like Lightning from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'' was going to be in this game. It wasn't true, of course, but it leads me to an interesting question: Why isn't Lightning in this game? It would have been an awesome secret character, and a nice taste of the plot and battle system of ''FFXIII''. Instead we have... well, nobody. [[spoiler:Off topic, and purely my own fanwankery, but the game also needed Balthier.]]
** She's not in it because the guy in charge of the games didn't want players to be spoiled as to her fighting style. I forget exactly where, but this is cited in a few places on TVTropes.
*** Then Nomura rejected it for the exact same reason I wanted it? How perfect!
*** Lightning was rejected for Dissidia because ''[=FF13=]'' hadn't come out by the time Dissidia was released in Japan; one of the developers (not 100% sure it was Nomura) said that they didn't want her fighting style set in stone before the release of her debut game.
** Then again, hadn't ''[=FF13=]'' already come out by the time of the latest Dissidia's updated release?
** In one part of the world, yes. And yes, it was a rumor and hoax that Lightning would be in it.
** Well, she's in ''Duodecim'', now, so there you go.

* Why do people here consider the Alignment changes of Terra, Cloud, Tidus, and Jecht spoilers? Not only was it heavily implied that Terra was a Warrior of Chaos once in the first game, but the changes are on the ''bloody cover of the game''.
** Who the hell is considering it a spoiler beyond the "too obvious" type?

* The game's gonna be out in ''three weeks'' in North America, where's the English trailer? I mean, I'm glad that Square seems to have acknowledged that we follow the Japanese news. But ''not everyone does'', and there should have been an English trailer a while ago.
** There has been some released videos of fights with the English voices, so I think ''some'' promotioning there is.
** There's ''finally'' a full trailer with English voices floating around on the internet. About time...

* What was up with the advertising for Duodecim claiming it would have a campaign for the Chaos warriors when it... y'know... doesn't? 000 doesn't count since it can be ''any'' five characters with no bearing on the story, and the Reports don't count since not only are they really just little snippets highlighting interesting goings-on in various cycles rather than a full cohesive story arc, you're playing Cosmos warriors in them as often as you are Chaos warriors.
** It's advertising. In order to draw attention to the game, they highlight some aspect of the game in order to make it sound really awesome when, in reality, it doesn't really come up that often. The ads were probably referring to the Reports, even though those aren't really enough to consider a whole campaign, especially since most of them aren't that long. The disappointing part is that ''012'' would have been the perfect time to introduce a proper villain campaign because, y'know, the villains actually win this one, meaning that a story starring them ''exclusively'' wouldn't just end in their being killed off.
** I'm wondering why you still bought the game when a promised feature wasn't actually in the game. Sounds like you got screwed.
*** Because it's still fun.

**** According to what I read on the character page, that's exactly it. They beat up the warriors so furiously, even after killing them, that [[spoiler:Shinryu just can't get anything more out of them and therefore doesn't bother to revive them for the next time around. It's not until the war is over that they are restored and sent back home.]] Though that admittedly leaves out individuals like Gabranth and Shanttoto.

** A fanfic this troper read (yes, this is hardly WordOfGod, but it's just speculation) posited that each FinalFantasy BigBad acted as an agent of Chaos, which the fic presented as some kind of evil PowersThatBe. Hence why almost all of them ended up being a nihilistic OmnicidalManiac or were all along. Kind of like how [[spoiler:each BigBad in SailorMoon turned out be an aspect of Chaos, the BigBad of the universe]].

*** Beyond that I can think of a few reasons. 1. Cecil is only a dark knight for a very short time in the FF4 series. For 4/5ths of 4 and all of after years, Cecil is a paladin. It's a critical part of his character and not a "power up" so to speak. Kain's Holy Dragoon thing only comes in for the finale of After Years, having spent all of 4, and most of After Years as just a regular Dragoon. The Paladin stuff isn't a major part of his character. 2. In Dissidia one, they had the hard task of diversifying a cast of all pretty much the same type of character. FF main heroes tend to be sword wielding magic users, and Cecil being able to shift fighting styles was something they could do to give him a unique playstyle. Kain (and much of the new 012 cast) doesn't have that problem. He's a spear fighter, something new to the game. If anything making his Paladin abilties his EX mode was a stretch just to give him an Ex mode.
3. Cecil had been a Paladin for 17 years before Kain became one. He's got alot more experience and knows how to use holy power more than Kain, so in essence stuff that would be base level stuff for Cecil would be EX mode stuff for Kain.

*** Beyond that I can think of a few reasons. 1. Cecil is only a dark knight for a very short time in the FF4 series. For 4/5ths of 4 and all of after years, Cecil is a paladin. It's a critical part of his character and not a "power up" so to speak. Kain's Holy Dragoon thing only comes in for the finale of After Years, having spent all of 4, and most of After Years as just a regular Dragoon. The Paladin stuff isn't a major part of his character.
2. In Dissidia one, they had the hard task of diversifying a cast of all pretty much the same type of character. FF main heroes tend to be sword wielding magic users, and Cecil being able to shift fighting styles was something they could do to give him a unique playstyle. Kain (and much of the new 012 cast) doesn't have that problem. He's a spear fighter, something new to the game. If anything making his Paladin abilties his EX mode was a stretch just to give him an Ex mode.

** [[spoiler:Actually, in the character descriptions, it says that all those who were killed by Manikins were brought back after the last cycle due to Cosmos finally winning.]]

**** According to what I read on the character page, that's exactly it. They beat up the warriors so furiously, even after killing them, that [[spoiler:Shinryu just can't get anything more out of them and therefore doesn't bother to revive them for the next time around]].

* This might be a more literal version of "Just Bugs Me," but... Kuja and that '''damned constant''' [[MostAnnoyingSound "WELL NOW WELL NOW WELL NOW!"]] Jeez. Not to mention Sephiroth's little chuckle (to say nothing of his dialogue. Man, talk about FoeYay. They're not even bothering with just {{subtext}} anymore).

*** Maybe. The bodies are all new, provided for them by Chaos and Cosmos[[hottip:*:the manikins are the rejects]], but the souls are wandering spirits Chaos and Cosmos found. It's left ambiguous if the spirits are echoes of people yet to be, the souls of the dead, or the spirits of those from other worlds. It could be the same characters before their games began, it could be the same characters having adventures in their sleep, it could be clones the real characters are unaware of, etc. The relevant Reports are infuriatingly vague; even the wise ones in-story aren't entirely certain where they got the souls from.

* Admittedly I know practically nothing about Final Fantasy Xlll (having never played it) so I'm a little confused by the conflict between the Warrior and Lightning. I just don't understand the apparent connection they seem to have. Does the Warrior remind Lightning of someone she knows from her world or what?

* So, why isn't Gilgamesh an unlockable character? Seriously. It would be awesome.
** Maybe because it'd be too awesome? GameBreaker, you know.
*** And it sticks in my craw that Auron is nowhere in sight, while [=FFX=] is represented by Tidus, who compels me to put quotes around the word "hero" whenever it's used in reference to him. Dare we hope that Gilgamesh, Auron, and other favorites by the wayside be included in the inevitable International Director's Cut Final Ultimate Remix Edition?
*** Dude, Tidus lead the team at the end of the game, spurred the party to break Sin's cycle, and gave his life to save Spira. What about that isn't heroic?
*** The reason Auron isn't in Dissidia is because then it'd be possible to have an Auron vs. Jecht fight, [[MemeticMutation and the ensuing badass would consume the universe.]]
*** But c'mon, who ''wouldn't'' want to risk it? Hell, I ''like'' Tidus' and Jecht's path and I still think that fighting Jecht with Auron would be mind-blowingly awesome. I hold out hope for the inevitable remake/sequel.
*** Auron was not the main character in X. It's about the main characters, not the ones who are most popular. And, really, why should Square care what you think?
*** Obviously because we know better. Duh.
*** Auron was a super character when you got him in X. I thought you were going to lose him after a while.
** It's because the forces of Chaos would have no chance, because Bartz is on Cosmos' side. We know Bartz is friends with Gilgamesh (use the Gilgamesh summon on him and he reacts with "I feel so betrayed!") and that means Gilgamesh would therefore be on Cosmos' side. Then again, it's Gilgamesh, and he's just as likely to randomly jump in and duel Bartz.
*** Actually, "I feel so betrayed" is what he says whenever you're unlucky and get the "Excalipoor" result from summoning him.
** No worries folks, Nomura has promised any sequel will include Gliglamesh & Kain.
** Don't worry, Gilgamesh is in Duodecim.
* So, why no Razma and Ashley Riot?
** Cause they're only dealing with the main numbered series.... And Vagrant Story isn't a FF game in the first place.
*** It IS an Ivalice game, though, so that makes the two more strongly connected than the main games are to one another.
*** That what's makes the crossover fun, though
** Pardon me for being part of the {{Alternate Character Interpretation}} bandwagon, but I think it'd be awesome if they had Ramza in for the heroes and [[{{Sure Why Not}} Marche for the villains]].

* Why is Golbez the villain representing VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV and not Zemus/Zeromus? All the other villains were the BigBad of their games, but Golbez was just TheDragon who was never really evil but BrainwashedAndCrazy.
** For the same reason that Jecht is the villain of X instead of Seymour. Emotional connections between the hero and villain.
*** Seymour was a side villain; the point of the whole quest from Tidus and Co.'s perspective for most of the game was to find a way to stop Sin, Seymour was just a unwanted obstacle. Jecht isn't evil, but he is Sin, who as already mentioned, is the monster you spend a large portion of the game trying to defeat. Him being Tidus' dad helps.
*** If Seymour had been chosen as the villain, Yuna would have been the hero character rather than Tidus.
*** And that is a problem, why?
*** Unfortunately, his absence has eliminated all possibility of the Seymour/Butz matchup.
*** Why does every Jecht vs. Seymour debate forget about Yu Yevon, the actual BigBad?
*** Come up with a moveset for Yu Yevon, please.
**** HP Attack: Charge EX, Brv Attack: Cure (raises Brave), EX Burst: SIN
*** He'd be too much of a GameBreaker. The enemy shows up. Yu Yevon appears. [[AnticlimaxBoss The enemy dies from laughing in front of the worst final boss in the series.]]
*** Can someone tell me what Seymour actually DID? All I can ever remember him doing was just acting like a prick and trying unsuccessfully to get Yuna in the sack.
*** He wanted to become Sin and kill everyone in the world. He spells it out a couple times for you.
*** Yeah, he didn't really accomplish much, for a villain. Sure, he killed off most of the Ronso, but you don't even get to see that.
** Golbez was the main antagonist for, like, 99.9 percent of the game. Seriously, when people think of ''[=FF4=]'' villains, I'm pretty sure Golbez is the first guy that comes to mind, not Zemus. Golbez is a pretty prominent figure throughout ''[=FF4=]'', what with him getting lots of screen time, is built up as a major threat, and most of all, has a VERY obvious personal connection with ''[=FF4=]'''s main character, Cecil. Zemus has no real connection to Cecil, and barely has any presence in the game. You don't even get a chance to legitimately face him; [=FuSoYa=] and Golbez do that for you. In general, he's pretty forgettable.
*** You could argue that the same applies to Ultimecia, who, again like Zemus, was barely in FFVIII. What separates them is characterization. Ultimecia was always a constant, albeit unseen, threat, whereas Zemus was more of a GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere character. To be fair to Zemus, though, what you said isn't completely true. The party does face him right at the end of the game, and he '''has''' a connection to Cecil through Golbez, but therein lies the problem. It's extremely obvious why Zemus wasn't used. The first reason is the one fans always cite and the most obvious in that Golbez has a direct personal connection to Cecil, but what many fans don't mention, but is also obvious, is that Zemus is a monster and would be pretty hard to program a moveset for, as has been previously mentioned with Yu Yevon for ''[=FFX=]''.
**** I agree with the rest of what you said, and like Golbez as the villain choice. I just have to nitpick though: Zemus isn't a monster, Zeromus is. Zemus is a bald blue-skinned floaty mage, he wouldn't be any harder to program than the Cloud of Darkness.
**** Plus, Ultimecia had direct control of those she was influencing. Squall didn't fight a brainwashed Edea or get tossed around by brainwashed Rinoa, that was Ultimecia wearing their shells. On the other hand, Golbez was himself the whole time, just brainwashed to be evil.
* Going by the above logic, why is it that [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII Cloud of Darkness]] is immune to the "No GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere" rule? Granted, Xande may not be the most compelling villain (and no one can really have any emotional connection to a PC like Onion Knight who is given literally no characterization), but he was still the villain for much more of the game than Cloud of Darkness.
** RuleOfSexy.
** That and again, most memorable villain from the game. Xande was the main villain for much of the game, but he was pretty damn lame. The Cloud of Darkness [[HopelessBossFight knocked the fuck out of]] the four kids in the first round with her (in the DS version, at least; I haven't played the NES version), is a mostly-naked woman[[NoBiologicalSex (?)]], and is the SealedEvilInACan. Much more notable than a bitchy mage.
** Apparently, this was also due to Nomura wanting to use Amano's original design for [=CoD=] in a game because he thought it was a shame it wasn't used in FFIII.
*** It's really unfortunate though, because he would have a lot more interesting connection to the story. Xande's goal in III was to achieve immortality, even if that meant freezing time. I think he'd absolutely love an infinitely recurring war, and would probably sabotage the efforts of both sides to keep the war going. However, the original Dissidia seemed too focused on rehashing the basic themes of the original games' plots, and not seeing how the various personalities of the characters would interact when they're all together in such a strange situation, so it probably wouldn't have happened anyway.
**** So he's pretty much a proto-Ultimecia? Well, that right there explains why he wouldn't be used. Why include a villain who's similar to one you're already using, but inferior in every aspect?
* Why aren't there stages like the top of the Shinra Building (GEESE HOWARD EAT YOUR HEART OUT), Terra from IX, Gururu Volcano, Mist Cave, [=ZoZo=], The Big Bridge, Luca Stadium, Pandemonium IX, Macalania Woods, Towel of Babil, and many other memorable places?
** They probably just decided to use ares that they felt lent themselves to more interesting stages. For example: the Void Castle is full of towers, landings, and messed-up geometries that serve as great obstacles during a fight, whereas the Big Bridge is just a big... bridge, it's kind of static, and doesn't make for a lot of good cover or room for lateral movement. Also, [=ZoZo=]? Really?
*** All the stages are the final dungeons of each game.
*** Except for ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'''s, which is merely the Lunar Surface (even though the game seems convinced that it is the Lunar Subterrene).
*** Eh, close enough.

* Why does the fandom insist on calling Onion Knight "Luneth" when he is ''not Luneth''.
** Because his alternate costume looks like Luneth, as I understand it.
*** But that's just an alternate costume. ''It does not make him Luneth!''
** It could pretty much be the need for a name. In the game, as far as I remember, only Cloud of Darkness referred to him as Onion Knight, but only once. And any time Terra mentioned him, she referred to him as "that boy", which on the long run ends up feeling awkward. Warrior of Light has a justification, he doesn't know his own name, but Onion Knight doesn't have anything like that, so shouldn't it be that he ''must'' have a name and not just a title? That much anyone can assume, and when looking for a name, what better than the one given to the main character from the ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'' remake? Sure, maybe Dissidia's Onion Knight isn't the remake's Luneth, but does it hurt to give him that proper name as well?
*** Yes, it is awkward, and it gives me trouble when I write fanfics, I'll admit. But it still doesn't make him Luneth. Luneth is a ''completely different character'' than the Onion Knight, with a completely different characterization.
** But the thing is, I don't see (or at least don't think) people are treating him like he ''is'' the very same character. They are just giving him a name.
*** But they do. There's way too much fanart and fanfics out there that treat his alt costume as if it were his canon appearance. I want to see stuff with ''Onion'' for a change.
** Given that Luneth doesn't really ''have'' much of a personality or characterization, is it really so bad if people project Onion Knight's characterization onto him and give him that name?
*** To be fair, Luneth does have a personality. He's kind of like Bartz minus the latter's CharacterDevelopment; while Arc is cowardly but growing, Refia is rebellious, and Ingus is a loyal knight, Luneth is more "Hey, adventure, cool beans."
*** Yeah, and the Onion Knight is sort of a know-it-all brat.

* Even though ''[=FFX=]'' is more of an ensemble cast then previous ones, it bugs me that Tidus/Jecht were chosen for FFX and not Yuna/Seymour. I admit that the two of them do "fit" as the hero and villain, and that Tidus is one of the more major characters for ''[=FFX=]'', and that their storyline in game was intresting. But it feels that Yuna fit more. For the good majority of the game, it focuses on Yuna. Her journey, her struggle, her sacrifice, etc., and Tidus is just along for the journey. Tidus and Jecht being the FFX representatives makes sense, but Yuna is a better candidate. Plus it would help to balance her heroes out more (both in terms of might over magic and in male-female ratio) and it would have added in an interesting play style (what with her white magic and even possibility to use Lulu's black magic as well).
** Yuna's shtick in ''[=FFX=]'' is summoning. It would not have transferred over very well into the game where several of the summons are part of another game mechanic, and have vastly different effects. It'd be impossible to give her a move-set for the game without going into X-2 for it. And Seymour isn't impressive as a villain compared to Jecht, and would only add another anoying omnicidal maniac to the villain's lineup.
** ''Again'', people, ''the main, '''playable''' characters and biggest villains of the first ten Final Fantasies.'' What is so hard to grasp about this concept? Not that Yuna wouldn't have been cool, but while the game focused on her journey, ''you played as Tidus'' and [[ArcWords he had his story]], so he's the ''[=FFX=]'' representative.
*** Besides, Yuna's in ''Duodecim'' now, anyway.

* The fact that Ultemicia was the villainous representative from ''[=FFVIII=]'' bothered This Troper partially because, like Zemus, she isn't known as the BigBad for long enough to be identified with the game like Kefka, Sephiroth, etc..., and partially because there is, to This Troper's mind, a much better candidate: Seifer. While, yes, this would screw with the male/female and magic/might ratios even more, and even though, technically, he was only TheDragon, he fought you so hard and so often that he would have been a much better antagonist for Squall.
** Actually, [[FridgeBrilliance if you think about it]], Ultemicia ''was'' the BigBad long enough, since everything Edea says and does up until TheReveal is basically Ultemicia speaking/acting through Edea.
** Not to mention bringing up TheRival for Squall would potentially come off as repetitive in comparison to Sephiroth and Cloud. Besides, what motivation could you give him, since he had been mostly manipulated and mind-controlled during the events of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII''? He's fighting Squall to see who ends up with Rinoa? Yeah, talk about making the villain into a joke. I, for one, am happy that they decided to take a less popular and well-known character and expand it, even if just a little, portraying Ultimencia as having a bit of FoeYay with Squall, and some comments that make her seem like a WellIntentionedExtremist. That's without mentioning she's much more powerful than Seifer or Edea or ANY other antagonist of her game, so why would Chaos pick anyone else instead of her?
** Gameplay-wise, I think it would be needlessly difficult to come up with a moveset for Seifer that didn't shamelessly crib off of Squall's.
** Squall flat out said that Seifer wasn't anything special to him in terms of being a enemy. Compare this with how he acted towards Ultimecia in general and you can see that Ulti was Squall's main rival.
** Besides, would you want someone like ''[[NightmareFuel Sorceress Adel]]'' to be the main villain([[ViewerGenderConfusion ess]])?
* After going through this entire JBM page, it bugs me that a lot of the JBM's are less FridgeLogic and more "why isn't X character I like in this game and why ''is'' Y character I [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI HATE HATE HATE]] in this game?". [[HypocriticalHumor ...oh, wait...]]
** It's the ''FinalFantasy'' FanDumb, er I mean fandom, what did you expect?
*** [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX Well now,]] most of what I see seems specifically aimed at Yuna/Seymour. There's the one bit including Rydia or Rosa, but that's really all I got. I, for one, happened to be content with the selections. (Maybe because I came into it late, happen to fangirl ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX'' the hardest of them, and am generally not very combative over things.)

* At the risk of sounding like a Shipper, why was Terra paired with Onion Knight in Destiny Odyssey? Or more accurately, if Squeenix was trying to mimic the opening of ''[=FFVI=]'' and needed a Locke-expy, why didn't they use Zidane? Zidane's [[ChivalrousPervert womanizing]] was practically his defining trait for the first half of ''[=FFIX=]'', so you'd expect him to have at least a few words for [[TheSmurfettePrinciple the only playable female on their side]]. But instead, [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot all we see of it in Dissidia is a throwaway line towards Cosmos]]. If he and Onion Knight switched positions, it would've made the comparisons between that storyline and ''[=FFVI=]'' much stronger (it could even work both ways if you pictured Terra as a stand-in for Garnet). Onion Knight's cautious intelligence would've [[RedOniBlueOni contrasted nicely]] with Bartz's free-spirited impulsiveness, as well, so it's not like Zidane needed to be where he was, either. It feels like so much more could have been done if they had just switched those two characters.
** Well, shipping-wise, Zidane is HappilyMarried, or at least engaged. He's working with Bartz simply because their personalities are quite similar; if they met in ''any'' circumstances, they'd be fast friends (not like that. Don't you pervs know the meaning of the word friendship?) As for plot reasons... Onion Knight's story needed an innocent civillian-type for him to develop a backbone about protecting; if he had been with Bartz, he would have been reliant on Bartz by default right up until the end of his story rather than evolving over the course of the story into a pillar of strength for the partner to rely on.
*** Did Bartz strike you as being particularly reliable for the majority of the Destiny Odyssey? Besides, as ''[=III=]'' and ''V'' are the only two games in the main series with interchangeable Job Class systems, [[@/TheHeroHartmut This Troper]] reckons it could have worked. Of course, bits and pieces '''would''' have needed changing as a result (like, for instance, how, or even if, Zidane would have driven away Exdeath like the Onion Knight did)...
*** Have it being Garland who shows up instead of Exdeath and Zidane actually fights him, so they can have the fight that refers back to ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX'''s Garland. And you can freely put Exdeath as the one helping Ultimecia in the end and there would hardly be much difference.
*** Just saying. ^^
*** I personally think they paired Bartz and Zidane together because of Squall. Think about it. Bartz is similar to Zell, personality-wise, while Zidane reminds me of Irvine. At least, that's what I think.
** Well, switching the roles of Zidane and Onion Knight personally sounds like a good idea to me. Squall interacting with Onion Knight instead of Zidane could also have served to bring a ShoutOut to Squall's own childhood traumas. [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot But what's done is done]]. At any rate, I ''think'' that the reason Terra and Onion Knight were paired is because they are from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'' and ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', the latter of which first arrived to America as VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII, so I think we probably got a reference to that right there.
*** It's also a reference how Terra became a guardian for the orphans. And since Onion Knight was an orphan in his game...

* Okay, ''Why'' just ''why'' wouldn't they just put Luneth in as the representative hero from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII''?
** Because Luneth wasn't in the original version of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'', and therefore is not a suitable representative. The original game starred four unnamed youths dressed up as Onion Knights, thus the ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIII'' representative hero is an unnamed youth dressed as an Onion Knight. Still, since Onion Knight, and Warrior of Light for that matter, have no default name, you can call them Luneth and [[Webcomic/EightBitTheater Fighter McWarrior]] respectively if you really want to...
*** It bothers me as well, since the orphans from the original Final Fantasy III weren't ''characters'', as they had no real designs or personalities. This means that instead of picking an actual character from the remade III, they invented ''an entirely new character'', not from ''any'' version of III, to put in Dissidia. Warrior of Light has the excuse that there's still no remake or anything that has given him a character, so they were forced to make something up. Onion Knight doesn't have that excuse.
** Also because picking Luneth would probably ensure rage in ''Japan'', which is still the market S-E cares about most. The NES version of FFIII was a ''huge'' hit in Japan and even now, that version is seen there as the canon, authentic one, unlike for us Westerners.

* So wait... [[spoiler:all the new characters technically die at the end? That seems like kind of a rip off. Why couldn't they just have this take place in a cycle after the first game instead of before or something like that? Gameplay wise it doesn't mean anything, but I'm a fan of storytelling, so it just kind of bothers me, it seems like it's the designers' way of saying "oh crap we forgot this is a prequel, better get rid of these guys".]] I mean, it couldn't be done otherwise due to the way that it was written, but I'm sure they could've thought of something.
** Because it was already established that certain characters had already switched sides, and it would make the heroes' side horribly unbalanced due to them having kept Terra, Tidus, and Cloud along with the other new 6. Also, as shown in the final story, the 13th was the last cycle (Cid got trapped in a parallel world where it didn't end).

* Why Tifa? She is in no way shape or form a main character of Final Fantasy VII in the same way and the rest of the new comers , Lightning is the main character of Final Fantasy XIII, Vaan is Technically the main charicter of XII though the argument could be made that Balthier or Basch is, Laguna is the main character for half of VIII, X is equaly Yuna's story as it is Tidus', Kain gets the justification of being a fan favorite so, Why not Zach or Vincent people who get there own games?
* Kain's more than just a fan favorite. He's on the box! He's also one of the biggest characters in the After Years. The true reason for Tifa though is that she's the director's favorite. He said he wouldn't make a second Dissidia unless Tifa was in it.