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fixing markup


* VillianousCrush: He unsubtly has one on Gregg Smith; Wendy has to constantly ask Bateson questions in order to get Bateson to stop staring at him.

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* VillianousCrush: VillainousCrush: He unsubtly has one on Gregg Smith; Wendy has to constantly ask Bateson questions in order to get Bateson to stop staring at him.

Added: 125

Removed: 264

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A Date With Rosie Palms is no longer a trope


* ADateWithRosiePalms: He confesses to masturbating after visiting his crime scenes, but only after he got back into his apartment.



* IllBeInMyBunk: He confesses to masturbating after visiting his crime scenes, but only after he got back into his apartment.



* ADateWithRosiePalms: When Holden gifts him a pair of the largest high heels in the shop, he soon begins to masturbate at the scene.
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* VillianousCrush: He unsubtly has one on Gregg Smith; Wendy has to constantly ask Bateson questions in order to get Bateson to stop staring at him.
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* SuspiciouslySpecificDenial: His repeated insistence that his crimes were not sexual seems to be exactly this, especially when Tench notes how he would almost always be targeting women-in cars driven by couples at the time, the women would always be passengers, the ones closest to the sidewalk, which Berkowitz would approach from-and furthermore, Berkowitz gleefully notes how he shot women.

Changed: 12

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Sinkhole/defunct


* IJustWantToBeSpecial: Yet some others believed that he did it for the wealth and notoriety, leading to [[TheGump the passing of a law]] that bans criminals from profiting off their crimes.

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* IJustWantToBeSpecial: Yet some others believed that he did it for the wealth and notoriety, leading to [[TheGump the passing of a law]] law that bans criminals from profiting off their crimes.
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* AmbiguouslyHuman: His followers and many journalists painted him in this light, saying his powers of persuasion were all but outright mind control and Tex Watson speaking as though he were utterly powerless to resist his commands and Vincent Bugliosi even stating Manson made his watch stop simply by looking at it.

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* AmbiguouslyHuman: His followers and many journalists painted him in this light, saying his powers of persuasion were all but outright mind control and Tex Watson speaking as though he were utterly powerless to resist his commands and Vincent Bugliosi even stating Manson made his watch stop simply by looking at it. Manson makes a point of saying that such claims are complete nonsense.
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* TattooesCrook: has large pieces on both forearms, but most notably a Swastika on his forehead.

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* TattooesCrook: TattooedCrook: has large pieces on both forearms, but most notably a Swastika on his forehead.
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* EvilVegetarian: subtle, but in his ReasonYouSuckSpeech to Bill, Manson says "you eat meat with your teeth, you kill things that are better than you"
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* TattooedCrook sports a large collection of prison ink on both arms.


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* TattooesCrook: has large pieces on both forearms, but most notably a Swastika on his forehead.


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* TattooedCrook: "Born to Raise Hell" on his forearm, even discussed as a part of his journey to becoming his criminal persona.

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* AmbiguousSituation: Invoked as he and his followers and the press give conflicting accounts as to the kind of person Manson is. In the popular version, Manson is a svengali type figure whose charisma bordered on mind control as he convinced otherwise innocent kids to commit heinous acts with Tex Watson basically claiming he was powerless to resist Manson's commands. In Manson's telling, he was simply a guy with strong opinions and a way with words but who never told anyone to kill, whose followers simply used his rhetoric as an excuse to commit awful crimes because they wanted to and the blamed Manson when they were caught to make themselves look more sympathetic and save themselves from the gas chamber. The show gives credence to both interpretations without ever clarifying which, if either, is true or false.

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* AmbiguouslyHuman: His followers and many journalists painted him in this light, saying his powers of persuasion were all but outright mind control and Tex Watson speaking as though he were utterly powerless to resist his commands and Vincent Bugliosi even stating Manson made his watch stop simply by looking at it.
* AmbiguousSituation: Invoked as he and his followers and the press give conflicting accounts as to the kind of person Manson is. In the popular version, Manson is a svengali type figure whose charisma bordered on mind control as he convinced otherwise innocent kids to commit heinous acts with Tex Watson basically claiming he was powerless to resist Manson's commands. In Manson's telling, he was simply a guy with strong opinions and a way with words who younger people looked to as a source of guidance but who never told anyone to kill, whose followers simply used his rhetoric as an excuse to commit awful crimes because they wanted to and the then blamed Manson when they were caught to make themselves look more sympathetic and save themselves from the gas chamber. The show gives credence to both interpretations without ever clarifying which, if either, is true or false.



* {{Hypocrite}}: He complains at length about how he's been painted as a criminal mastermind and dangerous killer by the media and his family members but has no issue invoking that same image as it suits him to other prisoners and enjoying the benefits it brings.

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* {{Hypocrite}}: He complains at length about how he's been painted as a criminal mastermind and dangerous killer by the media looking for a sensational angle and his family members trying to save themselves but has no issue invoking that same image as it suits him to other prisoners and enjoying the benefits it brings.


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* IntergenerationalFriendship: He was about ten to fifteen years older than most of his followers which led to many looking to him as a mentor archetype, a fact he ruthlessly exploited to create his infamous family.
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Disambig. per TRS


* KnifeNut: Though he had a gun and used it on his first victim, he stabbed all others dozens of times.
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* AmbiguousSituation: Invoked as he and his followers and the press give conflicting accounts as to the kind of person Manson is. In the popular version, Manson is a svengali type figure whose charisma bordered on mind control as he convinced otherwise innocent kids to commit heinous acts with Tex Watson basically claiming he was powerless to resist Manson's commands. In Manson's telling, he was simply a guy with strong opinions but who never told anyone to kill, whose followers simply used his rhetoric as an excuse to commit awful crimes because they wanted to and the blamed Manson when they were caught to make themselves look more sympathetic and save themselves from the death penalty. The show gives credence to both interpretations without ever clarifying which, if either, is true or false.

to:

* AmbiguousSituation: Invoked as he and his followers and the press give conflicting accounts as to the kind of person Manson is. In the popular version, Manson is a svengali type figure whose charisma bordered on mind control as he convinced otherwise innocent kids to commit heinous acts with Tex Watson basically claiming he was powerless to resist Manson's commands. In Manson's telling, he was simply a guy with strong opinions and a way with words but who never told anyone to kill, whose followers simply used his rhetoric as an excuse to commit awful crimes because they wanted to and the blamed Manson when they were caught to make themselves look more sympathetic and save themselves from the death penalty.gas chamber. The show gives credence to both interpretations without ever clarifying which, if either, is true or false.



* BookDumb: He has little education due to his troubled upbringing where he spent much of his time in prison or reform schools but he is extremely cunning, intelligent and charismatic.

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* BookDumb: He has little education due to his troubled upbringing where he spent much of his time in prison or reform schools but he is extremely cunning, intelligent and charismatic.charismatic, able to size people up almost instantly.



* LargeHam: Very much this, especially towards the end of his interview when he stands up and starts gesticulating wildly.

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* LargeHam: Very much this, especially towards the end of his interview when he stands up and starts gesticulating wildly. Definitely truth in television as any footage of the real Manson can attest.



* SmarterThanYouLook: He looks like a barely literate lunatic but proves himself to be terrifyingly incisive, charismatic and manipulative, able to size people up the moment he meets them and find ways to gain control over them.

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* SmarterThanYouLook: He looks like a barely literate lunatic but proves himself to be terrifyingly incisive, inntelligent, charismatic and manipulative, able to size people up the moment he meets them and find ways to gain control over them.
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* AffablyEvil: Kemper might be the most likable and personable rapist and murderer out there. He's polite, articulate, honest, forthcoming, insightful, quick-witted and despite his size, he's adept at disarming people who have every reason to be on their guard. Even Bill Tench likes him to a certain degree and the two greet each other like old friends when meeting in the second season, and Ed seems to genuinely consider Ford to be his friend. It's suggested that the feeling might be somewhat mutual. Truth in television as the real Kemper is known for regularly participating in interviews with law enforcement and being extremely forthcoming and insightful and is known as a model prisoner, not even having a single rules violation until four decades into his sentence. John Douglas even admits in his book that he came to like Ed and enjoyed his company.

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* AffablyEvil: Kemper might be the most likable and personable rapist and murderer out there. He's polite, articulate, honest, forthcoming, insightful, quick-witted and despite his size, he's adept at disarming people who have every reason to be on their guard. Even Bill Tench likes him to a certain degree and the two greet each other like old friends when meeting in the second season, and Ed seems to genuinely consider Ford to be his friend. It's suggested that the feeling might be somewhat mutual. Truth in television as the real Kemper is known for regularly participating in interviews with law enforcement and being extremely forthcoming and insightful and polite and charming to interviewers and is known as a model prisoner, not even having a single rules violation until four decades into his sentence. sentence (and even that was simply for failing to turn in a urine sample for a drug test). John Douglas even admits in his book that he came to like Ed and enjoyed his company.company while fully admitting he wouldn't want him free.



* MotorMouth: Not to the extent of Manson but Kemper ''loves'' to talk and having a captive audience. When he is first told about Ed, Holden asks if he would be willing to talk and is simply told "try getting him to shut up".

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* MotorMouth: Not to the extent of Manson but Kemper Ed ''loves'' to talk and having a captive audience. When he is first told about Ed, Holden asks if he would be willing to talk and is simply told "try getting him to shut up".
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* CommonalityConnection: Holden tries to connect with him by calling the victims "eight ripe cunts." It backfires on an epic scale and causes problems for both him and the unit. For Speck's part, his reaction is the only time he displays anything other than bitterness or fury: he actually *laughs*, and looks a little shocked by Holden's language.

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* CommonalityConnection: Holden tries to connect with him by calling the victims "eight ripe cunts." It backfires on an epic scale and causes problems for both him and the unit. For Speck's part, his reaction is the only time he displays anything other than bitterness or fury: he actually *laughs*, ''laughs'', and looks a little shocked by Holden's language.
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Bastard Boyfriend is no longer a trope; renaming and removing as appropriate. Moved to discussion


* BastardBoyfriend: His victims were BDSM submissives, but he got pleasure for going beyond their limits.
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* AffablyEvil: Kemper might be the most likable and personable rapist and murderer out there. He's polite, articulate, honest, forthcoming, insightful, quick-witted and despite his size, he's adept at disarming people who have every reason to be on their guard. Even Bill Tench likes him to a certain degree and the two greet each other like old friends when meeting in the second season, and Ed seems to genuinely consider Ford to be his friend. It's suggested that the feeling might be somewhat mutual. Truth in television as the real Kemper is known for regularly participating in interviews with law enforcement and being extremely forthcoming and insightful and is known as a model prisoner, not even having a single rules violation until four decades into his sentence.

to:

* AffablyEvil: Kemper might be the most likable and personable rapist and murderer out there. He's polite, articulate, honest, forthcoming, insightful, quick-witted and despite his size, he's adept at disarming people who have every reason to be on their guard. Even Bill Tench likes him to a certain degree and the two greet each other like old friends when meeting in the second season, and Ed seems to genuinely consider Ford to be his friend. It's suggested that the feeling might be somewhat mutual. Truth in television as the real Kemper is known for regularly participating in interviews with law enforcement and being extremely forthcoming and insightful and is known as a model prisoner, not even having a single rules violation until four decades into his sentence. John Douglas even admits in his book that he came to like Ed and enjoyed his company.



* CardCarryingVillain: Kemper is completely aware of his own evil nature and doesn't try to rationalize or make excuses for it. When asked for suggestions on how the FBI should deal with people like him, unlike other interviewees who blame their upbringing or society or are interested in a cure, Kemper calmly suggests {{Lobotomy}} or "death by torture" as their surest bet. The real Kemper even requested the death penalty upon capture and has clarified at parole hearings that he doesn't believe he should be allowed out, even waiving his right to a hearing on four separate occasions.

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* CardCarryingVillain: Kemper is completely aware of his own evil nature and while he doesn't necessarily revel or take pride in it, he also doesn't try to rationalize or make excuses for it. When asked for suggestions on how the FBI should deal with people like him, unlike other interviewees who blame their upbringing or society or are interested in a cure, Kemper calmly suggests {{Lobotomy}} or "death by torture" as their surest bet. The real Kemper even requested the death penalty upon capture and has clarified at parole hearings that he doesn't believe he should be allowed out, even waiving his right to a hearing on four separate occasions.



* OnlySaneMan: For a given definition of "sane" given that he's still a brutal serial killer but Ed is easily the most stable and self-aware of all the interview subjects. He is always honest and forthcoming, highly intelligent and articulate, never tries to claim innocence or blame others and is genuinely polite and well-mannered. He's easily the most useful source of information Holden and Bill encounter.

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* OnlySaneMan: For a given definition of "sane" given that he's still a brutal serial killer but Ed is easily the most stable and self-aware of all the interview subjects. He is always honest and forthcoming, highly intelligent and articulate, fully aware of his evil nature, never tries to claim innocence or blame others and is genuinely polite and well-mannered. He's easily the most useful source of information Holden and Bill encounter.
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* AxCrazy: All of the subjects are deranged and violent offenders, most of them being convicted serial killers guilty of some of the most horrific crimes ever committed.
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* NonActionBigBad: Despite his fame, he never killed a person with his own hands. He also has never been able to fight or defend himself due to his size and so relies entirely on his wits.

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* NonActionBigBad: Despite his fame, he never killed a person with his own hands. He also has never been able to fight or defend himself due to his size and so relies entirely on his wits. He even uses this as a defense in the interview, claiming Tex Watson instigated the murders and Manson knew that trying to argue with or reign in someone who could easily destroy him in a fight was a bad idea.
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* BigEater: That body doesn't live off the air. Having made friends with the commissary staff and guards, several of the interviews with Kemper involve him sharing a meal with the agents.

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* BigEater: That body doesn't live off the air. Having made friends with the commissary staff and guards, several of the interviews with Kemper involve him sharing a meal with the agents.agents with Holden and Bill even ordering a pizza for one of their sessions, much to Ed's delight.



* OnlySaneMan: For a given definition of "sane" given that he's still a brutal serial killer but Ed is easily the most stable and self-aware of all the interview subjects. He is always honest and forthcoming, never tries to claim innocence or blame others and is genuinely polite and well-mannered. He's easily the most useful source of information Holden and Bill encounter.

to:

* OnlySaneMan: For a given definition of "sane" given that he's still a brutal serial killer but Ed is easily the most stable and self-aware of all the interview subjects. He is always honest and forthcoming, highly intelligent and articulate, never tries to claim innocence or blame others and is genuinely polite and well-mannered. He's easily the most useful source of information Holden and Bill encounter.
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Not really a good splice, might be a better way to add that bit in


* ControlFreak: Downplayed in that he keeps it hidden under his polite, genial facade, manifesting itself from their very first meeting: ordering an egg salad sandwich for Holden and getting him to eat it without ever asking if he wants to. The constant putting of hands on Holden probably has more to do with this than with being friendly. And when he learns that Holden has been mentioning their "relationship" outside, he doesn't like it at all and concocts an elaborate plan to punish him. The real Kemper would engage in similar activities, intimidating and rewarding fellow inmate and serial killer Herbert Mullins as a way to practice behavior modification treatment.

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* ControlFreak: Downplayed in that he keeps it hidden under his polite, genial facade, manifesting itself from their very first meeting: ordering an egg salad sandwich for Holden and getting him to eat it without ever asking if he wants to. The constant putting of hands on Holden probably has more to do with this than with being friendly. And He refers to the interviews as "our work", and when he learns that Holden has been mentioning their "relationship" outside, he doesn't like it at all and concocts an elaborate plan to punish him. The real Kemper would engage in similar activities, intimidating and rewarding fellow inmate and serial killer Herbert Mullins as a way to practice behavior modification treatment.
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Hollywood Dateless refers to handsome and charming yet still dateless


* HollywoodDateless: At one point, he describes himself as what would be called an "incel" today.

Changed: 25

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Disambiguated


[[caption-width-right:350:''"It didn't seem crazy at the time, the idea of takin' her. But I kept hearing Charlie's voice, "[[KillThemAll Kill 'em all]]." He told me over and over again, "Make sure everyone's dead." I did what Charlie told me."'']]

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[[caption-width-right:350:''"It didn't seem crazy at the time, the idea of takin' her. But I kept hearing Charlie's voice, "[[KillThemAll "[[LeaveNoSurvivors Kill 'em all]]." He told me over and over again, "Make sure everyone's dead." I did what Charlie told me."'']]

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* AmbiguousSituation: Invoked as he and his followers and the press give conflicting accounts as to the kind of person Manson is. In the popular version, Manson is a svengali type figure whose charisma bordered on mind control as he convinced otherwise innocent kids to commit heinous acts. In Manson's telling, he was simply a guy with strong opinions but who never told anyone to kill, whose followers simply used his rhetoric as an excuse to commit awful crimes because they wanted to and the blamed Manson when they were caught. The show gives credence to both interpretations without ever clarifying which, if either, is true or false.

to:

* AmbiguousSituation: Invoked as he and his followers and the press give conflicting accounts as to the kind of person Manson is. In the popular version, Manson is a svengali type figure whose charisma bordered on mind control as he convinced otherwise innocent kids to commit heinous acts. acts with Tex Watson basically claiming he was powerless to resist Manson's commands. In Manson's telling, he was simply a guy with strong opinions but who never told anyone to kill, whose followers simply used his rhetoric as an excuse to commit awful crimes because they wanted to and the blamed Manson when they were caught.caught to make themselves look more sympathetic and save themselves from the death penalty. The show gives credence to both interpretations without ever clarifying which, if either, is true or false.



* KneelBeforeZod: The first thing he does after entering the interview room: sit on the chair's back so the agents have to look up to him.

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* KneelBeforeZod: The first thing he does after entering the interview room: sit on the chair's back so the agents have to look up to him.him, an action taken directly from John Douglas' real interview with him and which claims he did something similar in the desert, preaching from the top of a hill.



* SmarterThanYouLook: He looks like a barely literate lunatic but proves himself to be terrifyingly incisive, charismatic and manipulative, able to size people up the moment he meets them and find ways to gain control over them.



* BelievingTheirOwnLies: Tex seems to honestly believe or is at least desperately trying to convince himself of his claim that Manson had a hold on him that bordered on mind control and is noticeably uncomfortable when he says anything to undermine it.

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* BelievingTheirOwnLies: Tex seems to honestly believe or is at least desperately trying to convince himself of his claim that Manson had a hold on him that bordered on mind control made him unable to resist his commands and is noticeably uncomfortable when he says anything to undermine it.
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* AmbiguouslyEvil: The entire basis of his character. Is his remorse genuine, or just a façade to avoid accountability? Did Manson change him, or did he always have that in him? Was he blindly following Manson, or leading? Did the drugs and indoctrination really give him no choice, or is it all bullshit?

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* AmbiguouslyEvil: The entire basis of his character. Is his remorse genuine, or just a façade to avoid accountability? Did Manson change him, or did he always have that in him? Was he blindly following Manson, or leading? Did the drugs and indoctrination really give him no choice, or is it all bullshit?did he kill because he wanted to? Did Manson really have a hold on him that made Tex powerless to resist his commands or did he act willingly?

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Changed: 91

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* MotorMouth: Not to the extent of Manson but Kemper ''loves'' to talk and having a captive audience. When he is first told about Ed, Holden asks if he would be willing to talk and is simply told "try getting him to shut up".



* SurvivorshipBias: Amazingly, he's the first person to point out the critical hole in the team's methods: they can only interview killers sloppy enough to get caught. Just because they ''can't'' interview serial killers who can fake normalcy doesn't mean those killers don't exist. While he never brings it up, Kemper lived a perfectly normal cover life before turning himself in.

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* SurvivorshipBias: Amazingly, he's the first person to point out the critical hole in the team's methods: they can only interview killers sloppy enough to get caught. Just because they ''can't'' interview serial killers who can fake normalcy doesn't mean those killers don't exist. While he never brings it up, Kemper lived a perfectly normal cover life before turning himself in.in and wasn't even a suspect prior and likely would never have been caught had he not done so.
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* CardCarryingVillain: Kemper is completely aware of his own evil nature and doesn't try to rationalize or make excuses for it. When asked for suggestions on how the FBI should deal with people like him, unlike other interviewees who blame their upbringing or society or are interested in a cure, Kemper calmly suggests {{Lobotomy}} or "death by torture" as their surest bet. The real Kemper even requested the death penalty upon capture.

to:

* CardCarryingVillain: Kemper is completely aware of his own evil nature and doesn't try to rationalize or make excuses for it. When asked for suggestions on how the FBI should deal with people like him, unlike other interviewees who blame their upbringing or society or are interested in a cure, Kemper calmly suggests {{Lobotomy}} or "death by torture" as their surest bet. The real Kemper even requested the death penalty upon capture.capture and has clarified at parole hearings that he doesn't believe he should be allowed out, even waiving his right to a hearing on four separate occasions.
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** Season Two reveals that Ed also likes to record audio books which the real Kemper also did.

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->'''Portrayed By:''' Robert Aramayo

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->'''Portrayed By:''' Robert AramayoCreator/RobertAramayo



[[/folder]]

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[[/folder]][[/folder]]
----
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Added DiffLines:

* AmbiguousSituation: Invoked as he and his followers and the press give conflicting accounts as to the kind of person Manson is. In the popular version, Manson is a svengali type figure whose charisma bordered on mind control as he convinced otherwise innocent kids to commit heinous acts. In Manson's telling, he was simply a guy with strong opinions but who never told anyone to kill, whose followers simply used his rhetoric as an excuse to commit awful crimes because they wanted to and the blamed Manson when they were caught. The show gives credence to both interpretations without ever clarifying which, if either, is true or false.


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* BelievingTheirOwnLies: Tex seems to honestly believe or is at least desperately trying to convince himself of his claim that Manson had a hold on him that bordered on mind control and is noticeably uncomfortable when he says anything to undermine it.
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* {{Hypocrite}}: He complains at length about how he's been painted as a criminal mastermind and manipulator by the media and his family members but has no issue invoking that same image as it suits him to other prisoners and enjoying the benefits it brings.

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* {{Hypocrite}}: He complains at length about how he's been painted as a criminal mastermind and manipulator dangerous killer by the media and his family members but has no issue invoking that same image as it suits him to other prisoners and enjoying the benefits it brings.

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