This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
-Z-: why is Marx from kirby on there? he's just a disguised villain who tricks the hero into doing his dirty work for him.
WVI: Same question. I don't think the guy who added him both here and on the Kirby page even read the Yandere page. Edit: I've removed it. Any objections?
Old discussion from Deretsun Discussion:
Citizen: Is "Dere Tsun" really a phrase that gets used often? I far prefer the term "Yandere", which I define as someone who acts like a doormat/perfect housewife but really ends up going batshit insane (aka Kaede from Shuffle). If these two terms are the same, can we get rid of this page and replace it with a simple "Yandere" page? I'm not confident enough in my definition to take such rebellious action, or even to create a separate page for "Yandere"...
Fast Eddie: I would wait for more Anime folks to chime in, but if needs be, we can change the name of this page to Yandere.
Citizen: From Anime Suki forums:
Yandere? Well, it's a derivative of tsundere (kinda), by combining 病んでる (yanderu, being sick) with デレ(dere). It refers specifically to heroines who's in love with the main character, but becomes mentally sick or unstable due to certain developments in the story, resulting in a "psycho lover" kind of character (Kaede from Shuffle is the classic example). However, as far as I know, this word is not very widely used (I don't even recognize it myself). More commonly, the "psycho" version of the heroine is referred to as "Black/Dark (character name)" (ex. Dark Kaede), while the process is called 黒化 (kokka, blackening/darkening).
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=752848&postcount=69
Ununnilium: I've seen it around, and seen it used more than Dere Tsun.
Fast Eddie: These characters: 病んでる don't display for me in Firefox, IE 7, or Opera — which covers about 97% of all people browsing the site. Is there some browser adjustment we should recommend?
Seth: I can see them - The title makes sense ive seen both names used about the same though. (I hope people don't start thinking about putting Japanese characters into the entries)
Citizen: You just need to have the Asian character set installed, right? Not a browser issue.
I'm not that good with editing Wiki pages besides the occasional typo, but I would like to nominate Ryouko Asakura from the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya to be added to this page, as she does seem to be s Yandere, at least with regards to what she was ordered to do.
Fast Eddie: Yeah, well, I'm not installing any special fonts to read this wiki. Neither are the vast majority of people. The kanji (I guess it is kanji) just makes the entry look broken. // later ... pulled out
- , a combination of 病んでる (yanderu, being sick) with デレ(dere). Not a commonly used jargon term, and for good reason.
Duckluck: Uh, if neither Japanese term is used that often, might I suggest just making up an English one? I personally have the damndest time telling all the different anime character tropes apart because they're almost all written in Japanese, and, uh, I don't speak Japanese. Cute But Crazy, Extremely Troubled But Cute, Bipolar Babe...
Lale: English trope names actually have a greater tendency to end up on the lumper-spliter chopping block. We'd have fifty different versions split from Yandere and 100 of Tsundere as people start tossing possible titles around. If the Japanese can learn English, we can spell a word or two of Japanese, especially this one.
Citizen: a.f.k.'s translation of tsundere as bipolar was bad enough, don't you start it, too.
osh: I usually have a dislike of non-english trope names on an english site when applicable, but IMHO if a fandom already has a precise term that is widely accepted, used, and easily locatable elsewhere on the net if you want more information, it's just easier to use that one.
Jisu: Please just give up... You've been trying to translate everything for a while.
Duckluck: Actually, this is only the third or fourth name I've suggested changing, and I try to only do it when there's a good reason. In this case, few people actually seem to know what yandere means (the Wikipedia article itself mentions that it isn't very well known even among Otaku), so I was just suggesting having a meaningful description right in the name. Admittedly, the examples I used could have been better.
I also don't see what that would have to do with splitting off entries. The only difference would be that people actually knew what the title meant immediately. If it get's split, then it was probably poorly defined before and the split is a good idea, but I don't see any reason why this particular article would get split, regardless of its name.
Lale: No, not many people know what "Yandere" means, but they will after reading the entry. That's part of the fun.
Trouser Wearing Barbarian: It's worth noting that there is an English term for this type of character, which I added as a redirect. Gratuitous Japanese titles should at least have English language redirects if the trope can be found outside of Japanese media.
Jisu: Since when does "yandere" equal "calm under pressure"? I think someone that's only seen Haruhi out of all the series on the list skipped the description and picked something that Ryouko did during the fight scene to try and define it. Yuki is not yandere.
Ununnilium: Indeed.who installed them years ago should miss out.
Qit el-Remel: Regarding Futurama; "Mom's" henchmen are actually her sons. As for an alternate term, I nominate "firecracker."
Clevomon: Um, just out of curiosity, I noticed that there used to be some male examples of this trope, but they were deleted recently. Is yandere a girls-only trope?
- Anonymous: Largely, yes. There's a double-standard when it comes to submissive / niceness vs. aggression / psychosis for men & women, so the Yandere is a bit more of a horror trope for men to Beware the Nice Ones.
Roland: I don't know who butchered this entry, or why, but Yandere as it's actually used in common discussion has nothing to do with romance, only being crazy towards the object of your affection, etc., etc. A yandere-ko is quite simp,y a girl who, on the surface appears sweet and cute, maybe a bit odd, but in reality underneath has the potential to be a psychopath. At some point in whatever story you;re reading and/or watching, that character breaks, their sweet persona morphs or drops away, and the psycho underneath is revealed. The entire appeal of, say, the anime series Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni, whose examples I notice were deleted, is that it's about a bunch of crazy Yandere-kos getting to shine.
amplt0: I took that part out, simply because it was, to the best of my knowledge, rather inaccurate... The article is definitely shorter than I remember first seeing it, but it still seems to get the point across... I'll leave it to someone else to restore it, or not...
Charred Knight: Solidark decided that his definition of Yandere was different from everyone elses so he erased half the examples without discussions. I am fixing it to the best of my abilities. While it'sw not the same (the order is screwed up) all the examples should be their. Once again to Solidark if the defintion you hold for a certain trope has you deleting HALF the entires your definition is probably wrong.
Solidark: I'd layed down my reasoning on the talk page before, but apparently the recent server crash ate it. Roland -> The Japanese actually have two terms for girls that you're calling yandere. The actual yandere girls are mentally unwell and are violent towards the object of their affections. The other term, which has been ignored because it's less shocking than yandere, is yangire. A character who is yangire is much how you've been defining yandere: a girl who is sweet on the surface but is violent underneath. If there were a yangire trope I would gladly add the examples that did not fit under yandere to it. I can only propose to either split the article between yandere (Kaede etc.) and yangire (Momoka etc.) because it makes no sense and is simply confusing otherwise, or establish a separate yangire article which would encompass the majority of examples I deleted because they're not yandere.
Charred Knighyt: splitting them would be way to confusing and from what I see most americans use yandere to describe both because it compares nicely to Tsundere.
Solidark: Splitting would not be confusing, in fact, it would clear thing up - it's two entirely different concepts. American use does not make it correct necessarily, and unless some effort is made to change the supposedly factual resources, bad usage will remain. The main page at least should make the distinction. Grouping characters like Keroro's Momoka in the same category as boxcutter!Kaede or niceboat!Kotonoha destroys the meaning of the existence of a Yandere description page in the first place. You cannot possibly want to claim that a simple obsession played for comedy is the same as psychotic breakdowns ending in mayhem and murder.
Charred Knight: Momoka is a parody of a Yandere, and we sure are not going to split between dramatic Yandere and comedic Yandere. The tropes are things that are usually vague in their description so we don't have 10 pages describing similar thing.
Clevomon: Maybe we could make subtypes on the page, similar to how there are different types of Creepy Monotone.
Anonymous: I also vote for splitting. There are a great number of yangire girls here who do not fit the trope as its used in Japan. Yandere is, in many ways, a horror trope about girls who seem too nice.
Roland: Just for the record I don't think I was the one to post up there; I can't remember ever using the word yandere-ko, and I've never seen Higurashi.
Lime: I also vote for splitting. We could at least mention the differences between yandere and yangire on the page.
Willy Four Eyes: One more vote for "split". I made a yangire sub-heading on this page (unless someone wants to make a separate page for it). I still don't think Nena from Gundam 00 is a true yandere, because while she's definitely crazy, it's got nothing to do with her liking anyone, but more as part of her and her brothers' conditioning as a Super-Soldier.
Burai: Baleeted ...
- The three main females from FLCL are all Yandere. Over the course of 6 episodes, Ninamori reveals an obsessive crush on Naota, Mamimi uses Naota as a surrogate for her ex-boyfriend and eventually ends up using a dog-like alien robot to destroy the stuff of people who torment her, and Haruko uses Naota to get the powers of the "Pirate King" Atomsk, then tries to kill Naota after he's the one to absorb Atomsk's power.
Charred Knight: Haruka a danger? maybe if you think her schemes where, but at no point in time are we shown that Haruka was evil until she actually flipped out. Hell a lot of people still don't know she's evil.
Burai: See her turn as a "nurse" — she's pretty much scaring Naota witless until she shows up as the "housekeeper". Note that I never said "evil", just "violent and danger(ous)" — you know, like running one over with a moped or smashing one's head in with a guitar?
H. Torrance Griffin: I wonder if flat-out Split Personalities like Yumiko/Yumie from Hellsing should be included here....
I know there's a "psycho girlfriend" story arc in Ctrl+Alt+Del, I just can't remember
- Not a Yandere because she was just pretending to be his girlfriend so she could rob him. Yanderes are when they really do love you and that makes them psycho.
Great Limmick: Does Ping from Megatokyo count, on the grounds that she tends to throw furniture and motor vehicles at naked men?
Master TMO: And how about Oasis from Sluggy Freelance? Or does she not count due to it being a hypnotic command type thing?
Metz77: Took out the following two examples because they had nothing to do with romantic interest:
- Bubbles on The Powerpuff Girls has tendencies toward this character type. She's ordinarily a Pollyanna type, but if she's pushed too far she goes into fits of despair or anger that make her tomboyish sister Buttercup look well-adjusted. (Indeed, this happens in the pilot short, triggered by "meat hair".)
- Mom from Futurama usually presents herself to the public as a modest, kind, and motherly person. In private, however, she shows her true self to be a ruthless, cynical, and abusive woman, and her three sons/henchmen often bear the brunt of her aggression.
I removed this from the Ranma One Half Example
- most notably Shampoo — a cute and cheerful girl who adheres to the mantra of "Obstacles are for killing." Fanon also has it that Kasumi is one, thanks to a few extremely rare "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" flashes of anger.
- Shampoo is not a Yandere- she is openly violent because she's an Amazon- not because of her obsession with Ranma. Kasumi is not a Yandere either, not even in (most) Fanon because she is not romantically involved. When Kasumi is depicted as violent or dangerous it's a case of Beware The Nice One.
- If any of the Ranma crew qualifies for Yandere it would be Ukyou. She tries to be the perfect woman for Ranma, and is quite nice and friendly. However, when we first meet her she has denounced her femininity to hunt Ranma down and kill him for abandoning her after getting engaged. He calls her cute and suddenly she wants to marry him again. When Akane and Ranma are going to get married Ukyou shows up at the wedding throwing exploding foodstuffs. However, (like many Yanderes) Ukyou is a fan favorite (heck, even I like her) and adding her as an example will no doubt start a flame war. This might be a problem with the Yandere trope as real Yanderes are not simply violent, they are violent personalities concealed by a Yamato Nadeshiko or similar surface personality.
- When Ukyo first shows up, she's partially noticable as NOT being as ridiculously violent as, say, Shampoo. I'm still watching through about the 5th TV season, and the manga's probably different, but my impression is that she's generally helpful towards the Tendou's, even Akane on occasion, and that if she's a Yandere, it's probably just due to flanderization.
- True. Ukyo doesn't really hide a violent personality behind another one, like Shampoo she's completely upfront about competing for Ranma's affection, it just so happens that the only way to do that (as with everything else in the series), is through martial arts. There are no Yanderes in Ranma really, unless you go into deep tertiary character territory with someone like Gosunkugi.
- Yanderes are usually nice and avoid physical confrontation until after they decide they are being rejected. Ukyo doesn't show as much Yandere in the anime, since we never get to see her try to seriously injure or kill Akane in order to break up the wedding. However, there is the whole episode with the Secret Sauce where Ukyo decides to give up okonomiyaki to be Ranma's wife. She becomes the ultimate Yamato Nadeshiko, until she starts to crack and begins cooking Ranma in her sleep. Ranma claims to married to Akane and sleeps in her room. Ukyo dismisses it as a fling, and assures him she knows he'll always come back to her. Hints of Yandere behavior there.
- Lets go through the check marks
- Ukyo is clearly obsessed with Ranma, check box one. Ukyo has a nice personality and tries to court Ranma by being the nice cute, less violent fiance, check box two. When rejected Ukyo becomes very violent, both when we first meet her when she's out to beat the tar out of Ranma (and maybe kill him, that spatula is sharp) for abandoning her and breaking their engagement. She stops only when she thinks he's open to keeping the engagement. When Ranma is getting married she assumes it is against his will and violently attacks the bride- despite the fact that everybody can tell Akane is Ranma's favorite. Check box number three. Now I'll grant that Ukyo is perhaps less crazy violent then some Yanderes (like Kaede for example), but of all the Ranma girls, she has to be the closest. Just read over the description of Yandere point by point and she if Ukyo doesn't have those things, particularly the last line.
- When Ukyo first shows up, she's partially noticable as NOT being as ridiculously violent as, say, Shampoo. I'm still watching through about the 5th TV season, and the manga's probably different, but my impression is that she's generally helpful towards the Tendou's, even Akane on occasion, and that if she's a Yandere, it's probably just due to flanderization.
Gloating Swine: Regarding Anya in Code Geass, I'm getting much more of a Raised by Wolves vibe off of her, rather than a Yandere vibe. The hat festival thing seemed far more to be that she never considered it inappropriate in any way to use Mordred.
- Anonymous: Seconded. There's no evidence that Anya is in love with Lelouch, just that she was enjoying the event. There are way too many girls on this page that are merely crazy or strange and not actually yandere.
Gloating Swine: Cutting it, and the discussion it caused as well. I'm not sure Rolo really counts as Yandere either, because although he's scarily devoted to Lelouch, his assassin training has left him unable to resolve problems except by killing people, he's not Yandere, he's just an unexploded Tyke Bomb.
- Anonymous: Adding him back. His actions in episode 13 combined with his intentions in episode 18 definitely make him a qualifier.
Malimar: removed, because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the trope whatsoever:
- Dolores Umbridge in the film version of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. Beneath that fake smile and happy-sounding voice is a complete bitch of a professor who will make you write 'I must not tell lies' in your own blood if you dare say that
VoldemortYou-Know-Who is coming back. On top of that, she imposes ridiculous and numerous decrees restricting the freedoms of Hogwarts's students, and ultimately overtakes Dumbledore as the Headmistress of Hogwarts. All with that hypocritical smile on her face.
Sackett: Removed: ** A milder version of the Yandere is Shinobu, Ataru's childhood friend and other love interest, who is a sweet girl with one really bad temper who actually gets super strength and the ability to pull blunt objects like desks out of nowhere.
Dorcas_Aurelia: While Lucy from Elfen Lied is arguably Yandere, none of the other diclonius are crazy because of their feelings for someone else, not even Mariko. Similarly, the entry for Yuna from Murder Princess doesn't belong here, as she isn't even crazy, just dangerous despite a cute outward appearance. I've adjusted the example for Elfen Lied and removed the Murder Princess one.
Novium: I removed the Medea example. Someone can put it back, if they want. I just don't think it fits under this category well, as her actions are all in revenge, calculated to hurt Jason (who really really is a bastard)- the quintessential Woman Scorned. She's not not a psycho driven by jealousy. She's just... a bit put out with Jason for treating her badly after everything she did for him.
Anonymous: I dunno. I think cutting up your brother into tiny pieces to distract your father from catching your lover is pretty yandere.
Mouser: Miss Piggy is listed here and on the Tsundere page. Which is she more of?
Smokie: In how much is the Yandere related to love? Many of the examples list people who have a hidden crazy side, but I always thought of Yandere as the kind of psycho-lover that, well, does this
◊.
Darth l33t: The entry regarding Dahlia Hawthorne from the Ace Attorney games was removed, with the reason being that most of the listed behavior was better described by Bitch in Sheep's Clothing. I've restored the entry in a pared-down version that focuses on her obsession with Mia Fey, which IS a Yandere situation. She's just to significant an example of the trope to leave out entirely.
Entity325: Is there a good reason not to have a Troper Tales? I happen to know a non-famous Real-Life example of a Yandere, but don't know if it belongs in the "Real Life" section.
Alkthash Can somebody please tell me where the heck Bunny Boiler as a redirect came from? Not wanting to get rid of it, but wow does it sound silly.
Zeke: Two words: Control F. It is not hard to find.
Robert Bingham: It's a reference to the classic thriller Fatal Attraction, which had Glenn Close playing perhaps the quintessential Western yandere. The term in question comes from the most infamous scene in the movie, where Alex, in full-on psycho Woman Scorned mode in regards to her lover Dan Gallagher, kills and boils his daughter's pet rabbit in the pressure cooker.
Zeke: Edited:
- Kaorin from Azumanga Daioh might qualify for this trope, as it's hinted that she deliberately injured her best friend in an attempt to be in a three-legged race with Sasaki.
No it's not. She had no idea Yukari would choose Sakaki to pinch-hit for Chihiro. Once she did know, however...
ZeldaTheSwordsman: I believe that Sabrina (when first encountered in the Pokemon anime) counts for this.
SpiriTsunami: Oh, we changed the page image?
Uknown Troper: ...It certainly does illustrate the trope very well...
GG Crono: Not being familiar with the source material of this one nor the previous one, I have to say that I like this one.
Kizor: It is also used on another page, though. On Mirai Nikki. I prefer the subtler face shot to the overtly murderous girl. Here's the former image.
ShadowStainedSky: Is it fine if I delete the following:
- Yuno and Yukki look very cute together. Go, Yuno! For your happy ending!
Darth l33t: Is there any particular reason Juice Box Hero is deleting entries hand over fist with no explanation, or is this just vandalism?
Rhiow:Deleted both Haruhi examples. Asakura is a yangire (any romantic overtones are alternate character interpretation and do not belong) and Haruhi is merely a little jealous. The most aggressive she gets is trying to limit Kyon and Mikuru's time together.
Kulsprutejojjo: I think a note should be added to the page that this is not always a horror/drama trope, and that it may just as well be Played for Laughs, as characters like Dokuro-chan and Amy Rose show. No big deal really, I just think the point is not exactly clear in the describtion of the trope.
What about those Four-Eyed girls from Hannah Montana and The Suite Life Of Zack And Cody?
