This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Working Title: You Should Know This Already: From YKTTW
(YKTTW link lost during the great crash of 2008)
Servbot: Currently tempted to include a certain image from the Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha page, with the caption: "Above: Nanoha, with Season 1's Dragon and Season 2's Big Bad.", only without the spoiler tag <<
Jisu: I'm not that mean (oh, wait, I am) but here's a compromise, also from Nanoha.
Jisu: Oh, you know what, changing the picture. This is smaller anyway.
Pacific: The picture contains a spoiler, and isn't a very well known example, I suggest a change, but don't know what to.
Mr Schade: I think there could be a better picture, if possible, idk this one might be a bit obscure for many.
Jisu: I wondered why the picture was suddenly gone after being around for years. Nanoha is well-known around this wiki, the picture depicting a spoiler is the whole point, and it's especially relevant to this page because it shows the spoiler boldly on the cover of a popular magazine. Put it back.
Servbot: Hmm... I'm seeing a couple of things that would fall more under Trailers Always Spoil. The Final Fantasy VII one for example, unless if they showed that around the time of Advent Children.
Come to think of it, does anyone who knows S.T.A.L.K.E.R. verify if its example falls under this or Trailers Always Spoil?
Servbot: Any reason why the Answer paragraph keeps getting added? It kinda sounds like a redundant Readers Are Morons thing with the opening paragraph. Of course, it may just be me.
- No. The moral is: read the actual book before you read the introductory/analysis chapter.
Nah, the other one makes more sense, since said chapter is usually put at the front of the book so you'd naturally read it first, and written in a way that assumes you are reading it first.
And: "Spoiler tagged here, mostly because I felt like it. :3"
Took out this sentence, because I felt like it. `-`v And also because it's more chatty than we like to be on here.
Bob: NOOOOOOOOOO! Curse your sudden, but inevitable betrayal!
Ununnilium: Conversation In The Main Page:
- Apparently, the moral is that if you want to enjoy a classic, read the damned classic! Not the introductory/analysis chapter. Not comments from critics. Not online blogs commenting on the comments of the literary critics. This strategy worked wonderfully for me, when I read the Dune series; and I still managed to get a shock when I read Frank Herbert's comment and found out that the whole series was meant as an essay about the destructive role of heroes in a society
Again, that's a nice plan and all, but not necessarily feasible. I mean, they put the introductory chapter at the beginning... but you're not supposed to actually read it until the end?
Also, this isn't this trope:
- Same for this editor, who started with Interesting Times, Thud! and Wintersmith, and is now reading the older books, the first ones were pretty anti-climactic...
If you read/watch the later parts of a series before the earlier parts, it's your own dang fault if you get spoiled. u.u
Cassius335: How is that not this trope?
Ununnilium: If, say, a new edition of Guards! Guards! had an ad for Thud! on the back cover, talking about Commander Vimes, Duke of Ankh, and his wife and son, that'd be this trope. Someone else spoiling for you because it's assumed knowledge in the franchise? This trope. You spoiling it for yourself by reading ahead? Not this trope.
Cassius335: Doing it to yourself doesn't count. Got it.
Charred Knight: just deleted Harry Potter example for the same reason.
Doyle: Not reading the introduction for classics is a good plan in theory, but didn't help when I opened Anna Karenina and the first thing I spotted was in the first paragraph of the intro, "In the climactic scene where the heroine throws herself in front of a train..."
Danifesto: To whomever added the Superman: Emperor Joker entry, thank you for using spoiler tags on the title. Even though it's impossible to resist a comic with that title on it, it's sad that they named it such, because it spoils one of the most shocking plot twists ever.
Prfnoff: Moved several examples to Trailers Always Spoil.
Cassius335:
- Consider that less than two days after the leaked episodes for "The Boiling Rock" were made available for torrenting (before the actual DVD release), This Troper saw many instances of those episodes being cited as examples all over the Wiki. Granted, I'm part of the problem, but still...
...this is why said examples were marked as spoilers. Eeesh.
Rogue 7: I meant that more as a commentary on how many people watched the episodes early and put them up here, not that they went unspoilered.
Fire Walk: I'd've thought King Kong, Star Wars, and Planet of The Apes were pretty much It Was His Sled, rather than this, especially as two of those aren't ongoing storylines. The fact that Planet Ofthe Apes is on the cover seems about right though. I'd also say that the Lord Of The Rings thing is more Trailers Always Spoil (unless the trailer was on the Fellowship DV Ds)
Cassius335: Can we please call a general "For fucks sake, stop it!" on people using this page to complain about unmarked spoilers?
Deuxhero: removed "Well, in all honesty, the whole spirit meter thing was such a colossal pain in the ass that not having it spoiled might have resulted in rage aneurysms from frustrated gamers." Natter, and complaining about game mechanics you don't like (I for one like it, it acctualy feels as though you are acctualy, you know, crused, rather the Crused With Awesome.
Fly: The quote's about Trailers Always Spoil rather than You Should Know This Already. Cutting it.
How about modern works based on established works that use a crucial part of the original work as a "surprise element"? For example, if you're going to watch a movie named Transformers, you should be expecting giant friggin' robots that [Hasbro legalese]convert[/Hasbro legalese] into cars and planes and stuff. The movie builds up early tension around the true nature of the vehicles, though. Would advance knowledge of the robotic alien nature of the vehicles through trailers, posters, DVD covers, the toyline etc. be this trope or not? Or would that be a case of "They don't actually expect a single viewer to be entirely surprised by this, do they?" (Do we have a trope for that?)
- This troper didn't figure it out till a few months before Revenge of the Sith, when he went online to look for Star Wars stuff, so it's not exactly theory.
- This Troper was shocked, nearly to the point of Heroic BSoD upon actually meeting someone who did not know this...
- When I showed it to my four-year-old daughter, she didn't, but she had an excuse, you know, being four years old and all....
- Anakin turning evil was never meant to be a secret in the Prequels. The posters for Phantom menace showed kid-Anakin casting Darth Vader's shadow. The prequels assume you saw the original movies (if they didn't they wouldn't be prequels, they'd be the first movies in the series)
Conversation In The Main Page.
- The novelization of Phantom Menace was also released a couple of weeks before the film.
Not an example, since it's the story, not the marketing for the story.
Fly: Nuking:
- * Probably the most spoiled spoiler in the Video Game Industry: Aeris from Final Fantasy VII is killed by Sephiroth.
- Oh thanks a LOT, buddy.
- This troper had Aeris' death spoiled by a friend who had the strategy guide: while thumbing through it he looked up and said "Sephiroth kills Aeris later in the game." We had both just started playing the game.
- In Europe, the back cover of the game has a screenshot from the cutscene that follows the Jenova battle. It didn't take much time for this troper to get spoiled... and still feel pretty bad about it when he actually reached the end of Disc 1.
- This troper never got attached to Aeris after having this fact so callously tossed at him before even playing the game for the first time. As a result, he never used her in his party and only looked at her bad traits. This is compounded by playing the game from start to about the second reactor a few dozen times due renting the system a bunch of times without a memory card, making him a former Aeris-basher. Only recently did he play the game through more mature, and had a real "WHAT HAVE I DONE!?" moment when she plopped. (Nowadays he ships Cloud and Yuffie.)
- Also, although everyone seems to forget this, Sephiroth being the Big Bad is also a spoiler. You're set up to think that he is either dead or possibly recruitable in the beginning, although his true role comes to light earlier than other examples.
- Personal story: This troper only got a chance to play FF 7 for the first time this year (2008). Believe it or not, he didn't even know what the game looks like, never having seen even a single screenshot! (Quite a disappointment compared to later PS games, really, but that's not the point.) The absolutely only thing he knew about the game is that some character named Aeris (or Aerith, or whatever) is going to die, and that's supposed to be a big deal. Honestly that's the absolutely only thing this troper knew about the game. And it ruined the moment completely. He didn't emotionally invest in that character the least bit because "she's going to die anyways, so what's the point?" The death scene was completely bland, having been expecting it for the whole game. (The graphics didn't help either, but that's still not the point.)
because 1) it's It Was His Sled, and 2) natter, natter.
- I agree the natter should go, but why remove the entry completely? I think it's a completely valid entry for the page.
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Anaheyla: Am I the only one who thinks that the abundance of spoiler-tags on this page are like, totally missing the point? If this is something that should already be known why the frak should it be wrapped in spoiler tags?
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Dark Hawk: Removed the Captain SNES one due to the fact that the Sovereign of Sorrow has normally appeared as members of Royalty and it was only an outline of Schala's sprite wrapped around, what seemed to be Omega Energy, wearing the mask of Sorrow, but not showing anything else.
A lot of these example look to me like bad ones. Expecting the blurb of a sequal not to give away anything about the previous book is a bit much. The trope description specifically highlights details about the Sequal being advertised in the original. That's a bad spoiler, the other way around is not.
Fire Walk: It would of course depend how much of a twist it is and how blatant it is: Covers showing former enemies being chummy together, or titles like "The Resurrection of That Guy Who Was The Mentor In The First Book"
Some Guy: The page image has been removed for being a colossal spoiler to the Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha franchise. Don't make me explain why that's a bad thing.
Koveras: Please explain why that's a bad thing? ^^ Isn't that the whole point of You Should Know This Already?
Some New Guy: Agreed, plus the Nanoha spoiler in question borders on It Was His Sled as it is. Readding.
Some Guy (sighs): All right. Most people haven't seen Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. Additionally, this page is loaded with spoilers. The Nanoha image? First thing a new user sees on this page. Instant unmarked spoiler. In other words, it is impossible to view this page, even just the definiton, without getting the climaxes for the first two seasons of an anime that, again, not that many people have seen. This isn't an It Was His Sled moment either, or else the caption wouldn't have to explain why it's an example.
Some Guy: Removed the image again. If anyone still wants to challenge this bring it up in the pictures thread on Trope Talk. If you post there, you may put the image back in the interim, as it is technically the current default status of the page.
Ryanasaurus0077: Would an image of Cure Passion help? I've already got a perfect idea for a caption: "Even with all the merchandising, you'd be hard-pressed to know she was once one of the enemies."
Ynk: Moving from the article
- Yes, because Venus was the likeliest candidate to be the Moon Princess. Did this really fool anyone?
- In the manga, she was. Right down to the crescent moon mark on her forehead she had in her Sailor V form, and she indeed posed as Princess Serenity to protect Usagi. The fact that the V stands for Venus wasn't known to other characters at the point.
- Maybe you had to be there... but seriously, Sailor Venus as the Moon Princess? When Sailor Moon is both a representative of the moon and looks exactly like Princess Serenity?
