Video Game Pokemon Ruby And Sapphire Discussion

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MyTimingIsOff
Topic
02:11:56 AM Mar 6th 2015
edited by MyTimingIsOff
  • The Dev Team Thinks of Everything:
    • The DexNav function on the PokéNav Plus will detect the Pokémon NPCs you see in towns, and will even add them to your PokéDex as "Seen" if you haven't encountered them already. This even works on Rayquaza before you battle it, even though you technically don't need to do so as his capture's required to progress the plot during the Delta Episode.
    • The games will recognize if you have a Pokémon transferred from the original Ruby, Sapphire or Emerald note . Talking to the Game Director in Lilycove while you have it in the front of your party reward you with a certificate you can put in your Secret Base.
    • The Contest Spectacular is actually well thought about when it comes to move animations within the contest:
      • Nature Power doesn't have its own animation - it simply turns into an elemental attack based upon the surroundings. What happens if you try to use it during a contest? It turns into Encore, a move whose animation involves a spotlight appearing on the target Pokémon as well as applause sounds.
      • If you use moves whose animation specifically involves interacting with the opponent (like Sky Drop, Flying Press, Play Nice, Slam, etc.), a substitute doll appears just so that the animation can work properly.
      • Use Teleport, and the Pokémon will immediately return to the stage after performing said move using the "swap in" animation the contest uses to switch between the competing Pokémon.
      • A Pokémon who can change form during combat depending on the circumstances will still transform when said circumstances (or a facsimile of them) come to pass - Aegislash will change forms depending on moves used, Castform and Cherrim will change forms if they use a weather-related move, Meloetta will change forms if Relic Song's used, etc.
    • Cosplay Pikachu shares a similar property with Rotom's alternate forms when it comes to taking off its costume when its costume-specific move is the only move it knows - the costume-specific move becomes "Thunder Shock" instead of simply disappearing.

There is a dispute over whether these are Square Peg Round Trope or not.

My stance on this issue: The Cosplay Pikachu example is the only one that even comes close to qualifying. The rest are just interesting little details.
DRCEQ
03:07:13 PM Mar 6th 2015
Hmm, I think the entries for the contest could be trimmed up into a general description, and I don't even know about the first one. The special certificate for having an original Groudon, Kyogre, or Rayquaza should be mentioned somewhere, if not this trope.

I know what you mean about the Square Peg Round Trope thing though. A long time ago, I added to this entry how the attention to detail to the environment in a battle was made by mentioning how there's ash falling from the sky, and covers the grass and trees around your pokemon when you enter a battle on Route 113.

Personally, I think such attention to such a superficial detail is amazing, but it doesn't count for the trope, apparently.
KarjamP
03:39:54 PM Mar 6th 2015
edited by KarjamP
According to my interpretation, the stuff related to Contest Spectacular are this trope in the same way something like Nethack is this trope. Tropes Are Flexible, after all, and, in this case, I've interpreted it to mean "Gamefreak's making sure there's no inconsistencies when it comes to the Contest Spectaculars".

And the DexNav one is definably an example since it works on all Pokémon NP Cs, including Rayquaza, may I add (which is pointless due to the fact that you need to capture him anyway).

Also, I don't think this is disputed anymore than someone just claiming that it's misuse. After all, they never explained why it's misuse in the first place.

And in my opinion, I'd only consider something an edit war if the person reverted my revert, not because I've just reverted something someone removed just because they claim it's misuse.

Therefore, I'd like permission to add it back onto the page.
MyTimingIsOff
01:21:45 AM Mar 7th 2015
edited by MyTimingIsOff
Tropes Are Flexible does not mean you can twist the definition of tropes to mean whatever you want them to. The Dev Team Thinks of Everything is more than just "making sure there's no inconsistencies." That's just good design in general. TDTTOE is for instances when the player would attempt to deliberately go out of their way to get around the limitations of a game, only to realize, yes, they thought of that. Not just cool little details that people are likely to miss.

The DexNav thing is just that. A cool little detail. Nothing to do with breaking boundaries or anything remotely similar to it. Same goes for the Contest Spectacular stuff.
KarjamP
03:27:08 AM Mar 7th 2015
I disagree that the DexNav thing is just "a cool little detail", especially since, as I said, it works on Rayquaza even though it has no need to. (In fact, when someone removed that paragraph, I specifically added it back because it makes it more an example than if it's not there).

As I said, I ask for permission to add it to the page. There wasn't any edit wars going on, just me reverting something for which I disagree with. I'd only bring something here if there is indeed, an edit war going on.
MyTimingIsOff
05:05:39 AM Mar 7th 2015
Even if the Rayquaza thing wasn't necessary, that still doesn't make it an example, that just makes it, well, not necessary. Having the DexNav on isn't exactly "going out of your way," so I don't see how it qualifies.

Also, splitting hairs regarding what does or does not count as an Edit War is pointless and irrelevant. I never even said it was an Edit War. I disagreed with your restoration, so I brought the examples to discussion. Plain and simple.

KarjamP
06:45:17 AM Mar 7th 2015
I just misunderstood your intentions, and I apologize for posting in anger.

The trope's about "trying to go out of your way to get around the limitations of the game, somehow break it, or find other inconsistencies, but once you get there, you find that the dev team has already thought of that possibility." That's what we're agree upon. What we disagree upon, is our interpretation of that paragraph.

I interpret the "DexNav" thing as the "find other inconsistencies" part. The same with anything related with the Pokémon Contest Spectaculars.

To tell the truth, I foresee this argument as going into a stalemate precisely because we interpret the trope differently. I want a "win-win" situation between us - I want to find a solution that would satisfy both of us, but the only solutions I see so far, which is either to include the paragraph or not to include it, seems to me to only satisfy one of us.
MyTimingIsOff
07:29:30 AM Mar 7th 2015
edited by MyTimingIsOff
I find the "other inconsistencies" bit to rather vague tbh.

Anyway, the Cosplay Pikachu example is the one example I'll approve. That's something that requires the player to go deliberately out of their way to discover.

The Secret Base certificate thing can be reworked into an example of Cosmetic Award.
DRCEQ
10:33:26 PM Mar 7th 2015
Cosmetic Award, huh? Yeah, that works. Heck, it even works as a Bragging Rights Reward.
MyTimingIsOff
06:07:46 AM Mar 8th 2015
Nope. Bragging Rights Reward is for rewards that have a functional use but come off as useless because of the requirements for obtaining them.
KarjamP
02:22:36 PM Mar 10th 2015
It technically falls under The Dev Team Thinks of Everything as well - to get a Pokémon generated from a Gen III game into the remakes, one needs to transfer it to a IV Gen game via Pal Park, then to a Gen V game via the PokéTransfer minigame then to Pokémon Bank via the Pokémon Transporter app.

A long, cumbersome process, yes, and it's shorter if the players were to have done it beforehand while playing a previous gen game (to play with their Pokémon in those games, of course), but the fact still remains that the game acknowledges the fact that the Pokémon's generated in the III Gen, specifically the original Ruby and Sapphire games, if it detects that it as such.
MyTimingIsOff
Topic
07:57:43 AM Jan 3rd 2015
edited by 172.17.164.194
  • Divergent Character Evolution:
    • In the case of musical themes:
      • The songs to Fortree City and the secret bases are now remixes of the same theme from the original games, with the former's song being a calmer version and the latter version being a more lively version.
      • Brendan's theme is no longer just a lower keyed version of May's theme - they now both use different instrumentation to each other.
      • Rayquaza now has its own battle theme instead of sharing Groudon and Kyogre's, with Rayquaza's themenote  being more orchestrated while Groudon and Kyogre's theme integrate some of the music from the original games.

Divergent Character Evolution is a character trope, not a music/soundtrack trope, so these examples are all misuse, so I removed them. They were restored on the grounds that "Tropes Are Flexible," but there is a difference between Tropes Are Flexible and Square Peg Round Trope. The concept described by the trope and the concept these examples are describing are only tangentially related.
SeptimusHeap
10:11:22 AM Jan 5th 2015
From Ask The Tropers. That seems like a real stretch to me - I'd be more inclined to give that its own trope.
MyTimingIsOff
Topic
07:57:29 AM Jan 3rd 2015
edited by 172.17.164.194

This is Not an Example; it just sounds like stealth complaining to me (the same kind that was caused by the trope's old name, "Wasted Song"), rather than a long song having less screentime than its length, so I removed it. It was restored with the edit reason "the only way to listen the song in full is to stall the fight by no choosing your actions" which is hyperbole and not actually true.
KarjamP
10:07:01 AM Jan 5th 2015
Point taken.
KarjamP
Topic
02:46:17 PM Dec 15th 2014
edited by 197.86.171.39
Guys, why do you keep saying Rayquaza destroying the meteor in outer space is a Mythology Gag to Pokemon Mystery Dungeon?

Mythology Gag must be known to be deliberate. While Pokemon Special and Anime.Pokemon are highly likely to be deliberate due to them having influenced the main games in the past, I cannot say for sure it's deliberate when it comes to Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.

Edit in question:
Perseus
04:03:38 PM Dec 15th 2014
If clear knowledge of authorial intent is needed, then half the examples on the wiki shouldn't be here. It's a rather specific circumstance, it hardly seems unreasonable to assume it's a reference.
SeptimusHeap
11:45:40 PM Dec 15th 2014
"The other things are also bad" is not a good argument for this being here. Anyhow, while I don't know the work, reference tropes are notorious for people adding examples based upon coincidental similarity.
KarjamP
02:34:13 AM Dec 16th 2014
edited by 197.86.171.39
The climax to said game involves going up to the clouds in an attempt to convince Rayquaza to destroy the meteor that was threatening the game world.

Very similar to the Delta Episode which's why I presume people keep trying to add it here. The only differences is that he doesn't Mega Evolve (since the game predates the ability of Pokémon to be able to do so), you confront Rayquaza in a different environment, he destroys the meteor all by himself and that you battle Deoxys in the post-game and not immediately afterwords.

The reason why I'm crying foul is because I doubt this reference is intentional. Besides, even if it is, it would have to be rewritten since it's a spoiler to Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Rescue Team due to it being the last scenario of the main game's story. (Beat it and the credits roll before the post-game becomes available).
DRCEQ
Topic
04:14:50 PM Dec 7th 2014
Does anyone else think that the Buzz Nav teasing about using the Search Finder to find a boy/girlfriend should qualify as a Ship Tease?

Karjam, I respect you, but I think you're grabbing the reins of this work page a little too tightly. Let others decide if an example should qualify, and how it's written at that. I was trying to emphasize how the search finder thing wasn't supposed to be taken seriously in-game.
KarjamP
05:09:32 PM Dec 7th 2014
edited by 197.86.171.39
It may be a joke, but it might also be true within the context of the story (except for the item finder part).

Besides, in this context, Ship Tease is mutually exclusive to Promoted to Love Interest, which's listed as an example that I added before the Ship Tease example was added in.

It's either Ship Tease or Promoted to Love Interest, not both.

And I'm not trying to grab reigns of the page. Rather, I'm trying to "improve" it so that it's proper. I know I don't own the page. In fact, if others have proven their point or corrected a mistake that I've made, I've either left them alone or proof-read them so that they're within the official standards of the wiki.
KarjamP
Topic
03:56:42 AM Nov 27th 2014
Is it just me, or do people keep mistakenly think the remakes take place at the same time as Pokémon X and Y despite evidence to the contrary in both the remakes and in Pokémon X and Y?

(There's various references in the remakes that act as Call Forwards to games canonically ahead in the timeline (particularly towards the fifth generation games), in addition to detailing the origin story of Mr. Bonding from Pokémon X and Y, while Pokémon X and Y spoke of Team Plasma of the Fifth Generation games in the past tense, amongst a few other things.)
Perseus
07:43:32 AM Nov 27th 2014
If you're referring to me, I'm under no such delusion, but the sign next to Hoenn's Maison literally reads "Battle Maison Replica". This isn't up for debate.
KarjamP
09:57:56 AM Nov 27th 2014
You sure?

http://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/battlemaison.shtml

(And no, I wasn't referring to you, specifically, Perseus.)
DRCEQ
10:38:52 AM Nov 27th 2014
edited by 97.91.67.16
The Steelport museum has a model replica of the Royal Unova, specifically saying that it has not been completed yet, which proves this game takes place before Black/2/White/2, and X/Y.

If the battle maison says "Replica" on it, then a screenshot of that sign is needed.
Perseus
10:41:05 AM Nov 27th 2014
edited by 122.111.0.199
From in-game NPC dialogue that I've read with my own eyes, I can tell you that the Chatelaines started their battling careers in what would become the Battle Resort. Then they traveled to Kalos and built the Battle Maison. As of ORAS, they're visiting Hoenn, where they made a duplicate of their facility. I am 100% certain of this, and there is no reason that it's incompatible with ORAS being before XY. Just because Serebii is the biggest source of info doesn't mean it's infallible.

KarjamP
11:03:47 AM Nov 27th 2014
edited by 197.86.177.158
So in other words, you're contradicting yourself about the Battle Maison itself originally being from Kalos.

Can I revert safely now, please?

EDIT: Ignore this post, as I didn't read yours properly. I'll rely on DREQ to try to provide proof. If he couldn't, for some reason, I'll see for myself in a couple days' time - I'm getting the European version, but I've preordered mine online. I'd only get my copy of the game within 2 - 3 working days, and since the European version's released on the Friday...
SatoshiBakura
11:08:08 AM Nov 27th 2014
edited by 71.171.84.163
Calm down, all of you. Unless there is blatant proof or Word of God there will be no mention of when the games take place in the timeline. Let's avoid speculating.
DRCEQ
11:09:28 AM Nov 27th 2014
I still say a screenshot is needed. When I get to that point in the game, I'll try to take one, but that may be a few days.
KarjamP
11:10:11 AM Nov 27th 2014
edited by 197.86.177.158
You calm down, Satoshi - it's an undeniable fact that the games itself imply it's still takes place within the timeframe of Red and Blue.

And even if it has been change, it's an undeniable fact that these games come before Black and White (while X and Y takes place after that game)

^ Can you also take the screenshot of the person mentioning the backstory to the Battle Maison as well, please?
SeptimusHeap
11:56:31 AM Nov 27th 2014
I've removed the entry. Also, Karjam, dial the tone down a bit.
  • Handwave: The Battle Maison being in the Hoenn region almost identical to its appearance in X and Ynote  is handwaved as the Chatelaines having originally come from Hoenn and building a replica of the Maison in their homeland after making it big in Kalos.
KarjamP
12:30:14 PM Nov 27th 2014
Sorry. Just got annoyed.

(And honestly, I didn't notice the tone.)
Kayube
04:04:31 PM Nov 27th 2014
It makes sense if you think of it as this order

1. Chatelaines build Maison in Kalos. 2. Chatelaines move back to Hoenn and build Maison in Hoenn. 3. OR and AS happen. 4. Chatelaines go back to Kalos to run that Maison. 5. X and Y happen.
Karxrida
09:57:06 PM Nov 27th 2014
First of all, a timeline has been confirmed by Word of God, though the exact amount of time between games (outside of the 3 years between RBY and GSC) has not been defined.

Secondly, the trope looks legit to me, as the devs are trying to give an In-Universe justification for their laziness/trolling.
KarjamP
03:23:48 AM Nov 28th 2014
I wasn't saying it's not an example.

I was arguing over the specifics of the trope.
Karxrida
04:22:25 AM Nov 28th 2014
I've beaten the game, so I can go verify the specifics personally.
DRCEQ
11:58:14 AM Nov 29th 2014
edited by 97.91.67.16
"Battle Maison Replica. Kalos comes to life in the birthplace of the Battle Maison!"

A Rich Girl NPC inside says "I heard that this house is a re-creation of a building in the Kalos region and the event that takes place in the building."

A store clerk NPC inside says "I heard that my muse, Mademoiselle Evelyn, is touring the Hoenn region, so I used everything I had saved and came all the way from Kalos! I won't have the energy to stock shelves unless I see her dainty face!"

A swimmer girl NPC on the beach says "Battle Chatelaines are here visiting from the Kalos region now. They used to live in Hoenn, so it's like visiting home for them. I hear the Battle Maison started in a shack that was around here."

So to sum things up, the creators of the Battle Maison originated in Hoenn, came up with the idea for the Battle Maison in Hoenn, but moved to Kalos and built it there. Then they came back to Hoenn and built it here, to celebrate where the idea originated from.
KarjamP
01:34:10 AM Nov 30th 2014
Thanks. You win, Perseus.

I don't mind being proven wrong as long as the truth eventually comes out. You can readd your version of the entry, if you want. (It's still a Handwave.)
zenithewonder
Topic
11:12:10 AM Nov 24th 2014
"Promoted to Love Interest: The opposite gender rival becomes the love interest to the player character in the remakes. More obvious during the epilogue or when you're playing as May (as rival Brendan explicitly states he sees you as his girlfriend)."

Uh, I beat the game as May, and he never says this (though yeah, it is heavily implied that he's the closest May has to a love interest). Or did I miss something?
KarjamP
03:11:53 AM Nov 27th 2014
I wrote that entry.

I must've just misread what he said (I thought he said "boyfriend" where in fact, he said "befriend").

I've since corrected it.
KarjamP
03:11:55 AM Nov 27th 2014
edited by 197.86.177.158
Karxrida
04:20:48 AM Nov 28th 2014
Is "Promoted to Implied Love Interest" a thing? It's not explicit in the narrative, though I did see some implications like with the post-game visit to the Space Center basically being a date.
zenithewonder
10:47:56 AM Nov 28th 2014
edited by 108.216.145.3
No problem. I wasn't attacking. I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. I already missed a couple of the Buzz Nav texts, so I didn't know if I missed it.

I'm not sure. There is definitely implied romance between Brendan and May. I mean, it doesn't get much closer aside from outright saying it than the Delta Episode epilogue.
fenyx4
Topic
01:30:15 PM Mar 14th 2012
edited by fenyx4
I'm the one who added the "The balance of power has shifted" quote. If any of you still have the promotional materials that came in the box of Pokémon Emerald, the source of the quote is located on a poster/pamphlet that features this image of the Weather Trio (Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza).
Chetren
Topic
09:20:37 PM Feb 17th 2011
Will they remake this one? Thoughts?
MindGameMaster
07:47:14 AM Apr 15th 2011
Hopefully so. With FRLG and HGSS each being gold mines, and 5th generation out now, I see no reason for them not to. Can you imagine Hoenn redone with 5th generation graphics? The scale of the region is really so massive, it would without a doubt be the best looking game yet. Besides, I really want to have an excuse for another Ruby/Sapphire chapter in Pokémon Special.
bwburke94
11:08:32 AM Apr 15th 2011
edited by bwburke94
FRLG and HGSS were made because there would be no way to catch 'em all within their generations otherwise. (Ho-Oh and Lugia were catchable by Gen III event or the GameCube games. Since the DS cannot directly link with the GameCube...)

RS remakes would not be necessary, except for possibly a Deoxys event which can easily be done in the third Unova game anyway. Groudon and Latios are catchable in SoulSilver, Kyogre and Latias are catchable in HeartGold, and Rayquaza and the Hoenn starters are in both. The Regis were event-only in Gen IV and will likely stay that way if RS are not remade.

I could also see Emerald being remade as well if Ruby and Sapphire are, due to Magma & Aqua being in separate games.
Four
12:54:03 PM Apr 20th 2011
Considering that elements of Crystal were incorporated into HGSS, it probably would be that Emerald's storyline would be incorporated into MRAS(Magma Ruby Aqua Sapphire, what I will refer to them from now on as), most likely by having both teams compete, only whichever team manages to summon their legend depends on the version. Also, a remake is probable, in my opinion, as in the 3rd Generation Game Freak needed to make the other legends available somehow that didn't seem forced, e.g. suddenly making them all available in the main region. The same was done with Generation IV, and is likely to occur for Generation V. What's more, fans have come to expect remakes after the third Generation, and would feel a little disappointed without it. Most importantly, Cash Cow Franchise. That is all.
shuraragi
07:42:43 AM May 7th 2014
Well, it looks like you have your answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywGSON9tNq0
pinkiestar
08:05:24 AM May 9th 2014
HAAAAAYEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Redesignated
Topic
10:15:42 PM May 2nd 2010
edited by Redesignated
For the curious, it was decided on Pokémon's discussion page that we should split each generation onto their own pages.
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