Sorry?

Is there any way to edit an old discussion?

• checks * No, there's no way to do it.

Could you guys make a short, organised, and specially concise summary here, then?

Sorry, I don't exactly remember it myself. I don't even know where the other person is

Much as I'd like nothing more than for my OTP to be canon, it's not. Sess/Rin is, though I like to think that was only made clear (as a FUTURE ship) in the Hell arc, after Kagura's death. :) I don't honestly think Sesshoumaru had enough of a grip on his emotions before that to understand love, certainly not well enough to know how to express it. Perhaps if he had, we might have a little more to go on (certainly, Inu Yasha loved Kikyou and there is some sort of parallel between them and Kagura's affections, however one-sided, for Sesshoumaru), but, alas, he did not.

Edit: I'd also like to add that it's very hard for me to imagine someone referring to someone they 'love' as 'Kisama' as often as Sesshoumaru did to Kagura. Watch the riverbank scene in Japanese if you don't believe me.

And exactly what are you basing this argument on? Like you said, he didn't have a real good grip on his emotions before, so the language thing is kind of invalid. Remember, when he first met Rin, he was actually about to walk away without saving her-Tenseiga had to pulse for him to act, and only after traveling with her for a bit did he start to care that much about Rin-that's just the kind of guy he is, reluctant to open up or show emotion, guarded.

Sess/Rin was never made clear as a romantic ship, it was made clear from day one that they loved each other but it was never made clear that it was a romantic thing and not platonic. If anything, the way that his mother made sure to say that he resembled his father in a STRANGE way, meaning not exactly alike-meaning somehow DIFFERENT from the way his father loved Izayoi (probably meaning instead of falling in romantic love like his dad, he came to care for a human as a guardian/parent-like figure) shows that RT meant for this to be platonic.

Plus Rin seems way too happy over the possibility of Kagura having feelings for Sesshomaru, the way she smiles and claps and says "I bet she's in love with him, we should keep the shard" and all that. Rumiko's the queen of Skater Boy Syndrome, she would never have made her act that way if she was intended as any sort of love interest, ever.

Plus she's shown before that she hates that kind of pairing, when she made sure that every single character was revolted by the idea of Miroku and Koharu (even though Koharu had returned when she was older and of marrying age), and even before then with Akane being relentlessly mocked for having a crush on Dr. Tofu and losing him to her older sister Kasumi later on.

Where do you get that her feelings were one-sided? He shows more devotion towards her than she ever did for him-him lying to Moryoumaru, breaking Tokijin, fighting Tenseiga incident etc.etc.etc are a much bigger deal than Kagura trying to give him info or wanting to see him once before she died. If anything, he was the one who loved her and she was the one who liked him as a friend. As far as devotion goes, she shows more for Kohaku (who she basically died for) than Sesshomaru, and yet nobody claims that she had feelings for him...

I don't have the kanji from the Hell arc that proves the ship, but it's in there... mind you after Kagura dies, which is why I like to think the possibility still lingers, had she lived long enough for something to come of it. We'll never know what would have happened had Tenseiga actually saved her... and I've always believed it said a lot that he tried. Sometimes I think it's better that she didn't, avoiding being tossed over depending on what pairing sold more issues, wherever said issues sold the most: Japan vs the Western World. Just another in the long list of things Takahashi has problems with. @_@

Actually, he started showing more devotion to her after she died than he did before like something had snapped in him, like he realized something. The part with him trying to save her...that's actually NOT the most profound moment. What kanji, and how does it prove the ship? To my knowledge, he specifically said "-ai", for PLATONIC love. Thing is, Rumiko's always showed hints of hating this kind of pairing even BEFORE she started Inuyasha, back when she was writing Ranma 1/2.

WTF do you care whether they're canon or not anyway? You don't even LIKE Sesshoumaru. What, just because Sess/Rin has loli implications? You do realize Sess/Kagura borders on baby f*ck is awwight, don't you? Technically any kind of lemon between them is hardcore lolicon. She may LOOK seventeen but, any canon div close to the original series, she's not even a year old. Why don't you find a pairing in which you like BOTH characters and harp on that. SRSLY, I'm so done arguing with someone who won't see reason over a pairing they only like because they are so convinced it's canon. WHO GIVES A F*CK, SRSLY? And, I don't want to alarm you, but: FANFICTION IS NOT CANON. It's about writing what YOU like or would see happen. Why not stop wasting your energy on this crap and do that? I'm certainly going to stop wasting mine. End of discussion.

WTF do YOU care, and why the fuck are you so upset just because I said something that's true? No I don't like Sesshomaru, so what? I can recognize whether something is canon or not, and I can correct you on it. And no it doesn't, this is fiction. Rumiko wrote it so that Kagura was born a fully grown woman, look at the bitch and tell me that's a baby-no it is NOT a fucking baby. Babies aren't fully developed physically and mentally, they can't walk, this is FICTION, and if RT says that she's a woman regardless of how long ago she was acutally born, SHE IS. "harp"? Bitch, you're the one who started BAAAAAWWW Wing just because you had zero evidence to back up your argument, I was nice to you the whole time. "Reason"? What "reason"? I just disproved your claims and you have nothing to say, so what "reason"? "who gives a fuck"? OBVIOUSLY, YOU. That's why you STARTED the discussion in the first place, you stupid fuck. No shit, fanfic's not canon, BUT WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT FANFICTION. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL MANGA. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD. Stupid 30 year old homeless bitch.

I can respond to this TL;DR without even reading it to completion: Because I'm sick of people like you giving anyone who writes Sess/Kagura an automatic asshat label stamped on their screenname with your batshit need to justify a pairing, half of which you don't even like! And it brings nothing but negativity upon those who just want to read/write/draw what they like and live and let live. What is this going to garner you, really? Some notion of self-satisfaction? And maybe some troll!fics in our already meager pairing? Enough already! I'm not BAWWWING or FLAILING; that would be your department. I'm just telling it like it is and hoping you all will eventually leave well enough alone and stop with these ridiculous capers. I mean, SRSLY, you're fighting with (and I regret saying this where your agenda is concerned) one of your own. But I need no agenda to love my pairing. If I sought a response (which you will anyway e.e), I suppose my question to you would be: why should anyone?

Edit: OMG, could we not get all street on each other? And, btw, I don't see what my moving to a new city/state and staying with a friend while I save up for a place of my own has to do with anything. Way to make fun of homeless people (and add two years to my age) while you're at it. That lends SO MUCH to your argument. e.e

A Japanese manga source is pretty sure the kanji in question is 愛児 (aiji) which, even now, is not typically used in a platonic fashion. I can't find a link to the actual [Hell arc] page in Japanese so that's not for sure but, regardless, 'ai' is typically used with a romantic connotation. Take friends of a friend of mine who are Japanese and live in Japan for instance: the husband refers to his wife with -ai as a suffix. If that's not good enough, there is the fifth and six kanji of this http://tinypic.com/r/augx84/5 (Rin's segment) from a Japanese site, 1521 (which can be typed into Jisho for a reference) in the Kodansha Kanji Learner's Dictionary: 慕い, shita(u)i, only used in a romantic fashion to mean adore, love deeply, be attached to; yearn for, long for; pine for. If you choose to debate KKLD (KALD), the be all end all of kanji dictionaries that Japanese people keep in their own homes, then your lack of respect for such just proves it's about proving your misconceived notions of canon as you see them and not the facts.

No one said anything about live and let live, just that they can recognize something is canon WHEN IT IS. And no, I don't like Sesshomaru, so what? That's why I can sit here and make a non-biased decision about the pairings instead of just pairing him with whoever reminds me of myself. I'm the asshat? Hon, YOU'RE the one who started this. I can respond if I want. Yes you are both BAAAAWW Wing and flailing. I responded to you, explaining myself respectfully, and YOU were the one who became disrespectful. Me leave YOU alone?? Once again, are you stupid? YOU STARTED THE DISCUSSION. YOU CAME TO ME. You DON'T need a reason to love anything, but guess what? THAT DOESN'T CHANGE WHAT'S CANON OR NOT.

And...trollfics? What the fuck...how the fuck would you even know if I've been posting trollfics or not (which I haven't, using fic to state an opinion isn't trolling)? Are you stalking me?

And what the living fuck do you mean by "street"? Specifics aside, whatever, it's fucking sad that although you wanna come at me, I'm only 20 and can support myself with no help and you're nearly 30 and you can't. Yes, because you randomly going off about nothing because you couldn't lend any support to a discussion you STARTED lends SO much to yours.

Hey, hun? That image you used isn't even one used officially. It looks like graphics made for a fansite. That's like citing something that happened in a fanfic to validate canon.

I just asked one of my roommates (who is Japanese) about it. -Ai is commonly used for platonic love. She uses it to refer to her niece. -Koi is for romantic love, or -shitaui. And though -shitaui IS used in a romantic sense, the pic you're using IS NOT FROM THE MANGA. It is NOT from an official source; it's something made from a FAN. Just because the person's Japanese doesn't mean they're some sort of go-to God that dictates what's canon, especially with the amount of Japanese people I've met who despise that pairing.

I'm going to be as respectful as I can and say how I get by is none of your business. The fact that I hold a job and pay rent to my friend and provide my own upkeep hardly factors into your argument. Yes, you're so awesome; you're barely twenty and can support yourself. Good for you. Let us hope you never fall on hard times and end up enduring a situation you so callously made light of in your earlier comment. Maybe you can sing your way out of the gutter... somehow I doubt it.

In the end of this, who is going to end up looking like a bitch? My guess it is the person who used 'homeless' as an insult. While you're at it, tell your Japanese friend to look at that link (from this website: http://www.showtime.jp/special/animation/inuyasha/ ) and have her explain to you what it is and what it says.

Edit: I never implied you write troll!fics, but your 'stalking' comment certainly made me wonder. I'm just saying there are repercussions to all this crap, and we end up being the losers in the end. Wank begets wank... do you get what I'm saying?

The link is from an official site, and the profile is official, and can also be found on Rumiko's world.

殺生丸を慕い　is official canon Japanese language profile for Rin.

If Rin is the implied subject because it is her profile, then the English translation reads as:

"Rin is the little human girl who is loved deeply(adored by, yearned for by) Sesshoumaru and travels with him. She found Sesshoumaru and nursed his critical condition, but was killed by wolves directly after. However he used the heavenly fang of life to resurrect her."

http://www.showtime.jp/special/animation/inuyasha/ http://bb.goo.ne.jp/special/inuyasya/index.html

Japanese fansites look like this: http://bibouroku2.blog40.fc2.com/blog-entry-172.html

Yes you did imply I write trollfics. What the fuck is this quote: "And maybe some troll!fics in our already meager pairing?" Plus you didn't answer my question...so have you really BEEN stalking me??

ROFL at how quickly you change your tone. NOW you wanna play victim? Really? After you STARTED the whole argument, NOW you wanna say you "wanna keep it respectful"? Hun, I was being respectful and YOU started flailing out of nowhere. I can call you what the fuck I want. And when I RESPOND to you, you wanna play victim? Please. Bitch, you should've never started. And to be blunt, I've had times when I was a teen when I had to live on the streets, but I always picked myself back up and took care of my own damn self. your situation isn't as hard as you make it out to be, it's just pathetic for you to keep BAAAAAWWW Wing about it. LOL so it's not okay for me to use "homeless" as an insult, but it IS okay for you to degrade cities by referring to them as "gutters"? I can have her explain it to me, yes, but what the fuck does that have to do with anything? What, do you want me to type a translation of the entire site or something here? Funny how the person who says "wank begets wank" is the person who STARTED the wank.

Edit: That showtime link you gave me? THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT RIN THERE.

About the site-no it isn't. Showtime is a media website that's among the likes of bugsmusic. The people that write the info don't actually have any ties to RT and they have nothing to do with each other. It's not a BLOG, but it's written by a fan that works at a different company. That's like taking everything that's said on TMZ as fact. They can speculate, but they're not a reliable source. And I just checked furinkan (official Rt site), it doesn't have that up there, the profile there is different.

Hell even if it was Sunrise I'd be skeptical since the anime isn't canon and doesn't reflect RT, but speculation from a website that has nothing to do with the creator? Come on now.

To answer your question so as to avoid further paranoia: No. Even if I was the sort to stalk (think a little highly of ourselves, don't we?), you're not worth stalking. If I'm doing anything, I'm trying to prevent you (as you are EVERYWHERE) from becoming the official spokesperson for everyone in the Sess/Kagura pairing. But I'm not even doing that now seeing as you know EVERYTHING, you have a speshul mind-meld with Rumiko Takahashi that none of us share and from which no amount of official/unofficial but legitimate websites/translations can budge you even an inch. You demanded respect, I offered it and still you flipped out. Think I'll go now and find a rational person to converse with... no use running around in circles with you anymore, I've made my point.

P.S. Nothing about that implied I expected you write troll!fics. That would be you reading into everything wrong again. Same goes for the gutter comment.

ROFL at that. Yes it does imply that you expect I write toll!fics, by saying "And maybe some troll!fics in our already meager pairing?", you're implying that I've done it before. And honey-if you're not stalking me, WHY ARE YOU HERE? If you haven't noticed, YOU were the one who replied to MY comment. If I'm "everywhere" it's because you seem to be looking for me. No one ever claimed to "have a special mind-meld" with RT, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I demanded respect, meaning you're not supposed to START SHIT in the FIRST PLACE, not run around flailing and then start whining and playing victim as soon as you get a response. And even your so called "respectful" comment was full of bullshit, and so is this comment. LOL at how you "want to find a rational person to converse with", and yet, in the beginning I WAS being rational and YOU were the one who started popping off at the mouth.

the funniest thing about all this is that 96.234.187.181 (who I can only presume is soojinyeh not signed in from the way you two have been going back and forth) seems to have issues perceiving plain english and yet is the one professing canon purism. what i think jinxycat was trying to say is that your behaviour results in other people trolling your pairing, not that you troll your own pairing by writing trollfics. as far as stalking goes, isn't tvtropes a site that can be accessed by anyone on the internet? didn't realize there were certain places designated off limits to other fans. she (jinxycat) is right by the way, you give a bad face to your pairing.

By what? Pointing out the obvious? Stating the truth? And when have I ever "posted trollfics"? Writing a fic to make a statement counts as "trolling" somehow? And when did anyone ever "troll" the pairing that you claim as "ours"? I read it, that doesn't make it "mine". Certain people own certain pairings now? Sure, it's a site that can be accessed by anyone (just like...ROFL, the rest of the internet), but if you're everywhere that someone else is and looking them up and shit that's stalking. Which is kind of pathetic to do to someone you claim to dislike...And WTF, pairings have "faces" now? Do people elect "representatives" and shit? LMAO at that.

being on sites someone else is in a popular fandom is stalking? and, no, no one is implying ownership of a pairing but, where a pairing would be someone's preferred pairing or OTP, it's not way out there to refer to it as "theirs" "yours" or "ours." i'm a multishipper and I like Sessh/Kagura (whether they're canon or not i've never cared, only stumbled on this thread out of curiosity) and have seen what i think jinxycat is referring to in the Sessh/Kagura pairing on at least one popular fanfiction site, fics posted under the pairing as romance that ended up bashing Kagura and the ship. that being explained, why take this so personally? i seem to remember this being the "main star crossed lovers" discussion, not "i'm soojinyeh and i'm right." you know i've seen your name in a few other places and i'm not surprised someone in your pairing is a bit put off by some of your behaviour. frankly, some of this comes off as nigh incoherent. so she snarked you a little and you come back with personal attacks. honey, she's not playing victim, YOU brought it up. wank does beget wank and i don't mean to personally attack you, but i think that's what she's trying to stop.

edit: oh, and to make my statements relevant to the topic of discussion, not that I ever cared, but there are a couple of points jinxycat and littleirishgirl missed: Rin never bows to Sesshomaru, something a daughter figure would never get away with but a child bride would. second, he brings her a traditional courting gift in the kimono at the end. anyone with eyes could see they were intended as a future romantic ship. it doesn't even require knowing all that much about Japan or Japanese, you'd have to be blind not to see that by the end of the epilogue. but does that change how i like them? no. just because you can't have your cake and eat it too doesn't mean you can't like it. or not, pick another pairing. i like Miroku/Sango too. they're the only clearly defined (contemporary) canon pairing in that manga if you think about it. try them if you only like strictly canon. :)

Quoted: If someone who normally never does something special for anyone, does something special for some one (in this case, Kagura), there are two kinds of common reasons: END QUOTE

Based on this, I am now shipping Sesshoumaru with the father of the little badger demon that he brings back to life when his head gets cut off. It MUST BE TRUE LOVE.

Sesshoumaru doesn't even lift a finger to save Kagura when she's drowning, he does nothing to try and free her from Naraku. He treats Kagura as he does almost everyone else (except Rin, and occasionally Jaken) - with barely contained disdain and by the end, just hardly tolerance.

Sesshoumaru saves Rin's life more than 12 times in canon. Many of those times, it is at sever risk to his own, and once, he willingly gives up his own life (he thinks he will be trapped forever in hell if he continues on) to chase her corpse, that can't even be saved with Tenseiga.

"Nothing could be worth the cost of Rin's life!"

When Kagura dies he accepts easily that Tenseiga can't save her. He walks away calmly.

When Rin dies he breaks down and heads headlong into hell to save her. He is overcome by grief.

Directly after this, Sesshoumaru's mother calls Rin Sesshoumaru's 'beloved' and compares him to his father and Izayoi.

In the third movie, Rin is the one the villain is trying to kill, and then says 'She is Izayoi' (Rin is still the subject there, not Kagome) and then says 'They are both Izayoi!' and tells Sesshoumaru that when the blades touch, he 'Knows all his secrets'.

At the end of Episode 99, Kouga is talking to Hikaku and Ginta about Sesshoumaru and Rin and says 'I wonder why he keeps that kid around? If it was a pretty girl like Kagome, I could understand but... Hey, you don't think...?' and then Hikaku and Ginta freak out and cover Kouga's mouth and say 'No! Don't speak of such a thing aloud!'

Sesshoumaru, who does nothing nice for anyone, saves Rin's life, buys her a kimono in a pattern that is worn only by nobility, cares for her, and loves her. (Per his mother's words, Jaken's words, and the Japanese profile.) You can claim over and over that that profile is not canon, but it is found on sunrise and Rumiko's world, and if you could navigate Japanese websites, you would easily see that. That profile is OFFICIAL CANON. Oh, and I took the time to dig up more links that are official:

Shonen Sunday's official page, which links to ytv's offical page: http://websunday.net/inuyasha/

Ytv's offical page, with character blurbs. Click on Rin's. You will see that it is the exact same profile, starting with 殺生丸を慕い。

http://www.ytv.co.jp/inuyasha/characters/index.html

殺生丸を慕い行動を共にしている人間の少女。 瀕死の殺生丸を介抱した直後、一度は狼に殺されたが、 殺生丸の天生牙によって蘇生した.

Note the fouth kanji 慕い, shitai, conjugated verb form of shitau 慕う, to love deeply, to adore, to yearn for. This is not paternal love.

He leaves her in the epilogue, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt he is not her father. If he were her father, he would raise her.

Instead, he is bringing multiple gifts (Kaede's words "Did Sesshoumaru-sama bring you a gift again?" she says this as though it is common place, and no one even reacts to a taiyoukai coming to their village, including Inuyasha) including kimono which were courting gifts.

Then there is the talk of a 'choice' Rin will make when she is older.

She is practicing "human things", "for whatever choice she makes in the future." (Japanese version of manga).

She also conveniently got rid of Kohaku, the 'rival ship' for Rin.

Takahashi-sensei left it open so that there was enough implication of future romance to satisfy the Sesshoumaru/Rin people, but enough of a question mark there to not gross out or offend the western audiences that have major issues with children being seen in romantic situations. (An issue the Japanese didn't have at that time in history, and even in modern day Japan, the age of consent is listed as 13 in the constitution, according to interpol's website.)

The historical precedent of the Tale of Genji is enough that you should realize that Japanese men had no problems taking 8 or 9 year old girls, grooming them into proper wives, and then marrying them when they reached the age of 12-15. Right or wrong, that is just history.

Sesshoumaru and Rin will never be a completely canon 'ship, however Sesshoumaru and Kagura are definitely NOT a canon 'ship.

I noticed in the discussion this was connected to that a fanfiction story written by the person in this thread making rather abusive comments was listed as some kind of proof of the pairing, or that people thought it proved it.

Wanting a pairing does not make a pairing, agreement, non-agreement, whatever. In Inuyasha, in the CONTEMPORARY canon relationships (we know Inutaisho/Izayaoi, Inutaisho/Sessmom, and Inu/Kik existed for certain but not in the contemporary) the only true pairing we know for a fact exists is Miroku/Sango.

I thought I'd put this link in for a different perspective though: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4741230/1/Denial_is_not_just_a_hot_spring_in_Japan The author doesn't write Sess/Rin, I don't think the writer writes much besides yaoi and Sess/Inu.

A pairing having fans who like it does not a canon pairing make.

The most popular pairing in Inuyasha that is not Inuyasha/Kagome is actually Sesshoumaru/Kagome. That doesn't mean that Sesshoumaru/Kagome is a canon pairing.

This isn't even about if Sesshoumaru/Rin is a canon pairing or not. It's about the fact that Sesshoumaru/Kagura is NOT a canon pairing.

The bottom line is though, that Kagura is dead, and no romance existed between them in canon whatsoever. Not even a hint of it. I don't see how anyone could even come close to seeing that without wearing the biggest pair of shipper goggles ever.

Not letting someone die alone is hardly an indication of romantic love. Defending the honor of a fallen comrade in Japan is also in no way indicative of romantic love. If anything, it would indicate he saw her as a warrior and comrade, and not as a "woman".

Let's not even get into the fact that Kagura is not real woman, but merely an offshoot of Naraku, who is Sesshoumaru's most hated enemy and he'd likely rather kill himself before mating with the offshoot of someone he continuously refers to as trash, a creature, an abomination, and disgusting.

Sesshoumaru doesn't ever save Kagura's life, even when he has the chance to, but he saves Kagome's life a couple of times. This doesn't make them a canon pairing no matter how much I wish they were canon. That is why there is fanfiction out there. I have enough Sess Kag fanfiction out there to keep me happy. Why do you need it to be canon to be okay to write about? Why LIE and distort the truth of canon just to support your pairing? It's dumb.

Sesshoumaru also doesn't kill Kouga when he sees him, even though Kouga is the one who killed Rin. I guess that means he loves him!

As for the other woman I like with Sesshoumaru. Once again, there is nothing one can do on Sesshoumaru and Rin but to speculate, because Takahashi-sensei left it open.

Takahashi-sensei did NOT however leave Sesshoumaru/Kagura as open for debate. She KILLED Kagura, LONG before any kind of romance was hinted at.

Basically, Sesshoumaru loves Rin. Him loving her is canon. Romance might not be canon, but LOVE is.

The fact he's not her father is pretty much as canon as it can be without Takahashi-sensei having to come right out and say 'Sesshoumaru is not Rin's father', as there is NO indication WHATSOEVER of either of them seeing their relationship that way. The only reason someone would say that is because they think there is no other option for love between an older man and a little girl. She never calls him father, and she doesn't bow to him as she would her father, and most importantly, he doesn't raise her at the end.

If one thing more than anything suggested possible romance, it is that he left her at the village with an old woman, instead of raising her.

Oh, and about support for pairing fics, I went to look for a link to it, but there was also another story on fanfiction.net that went through and listed all the major reasons why Sesshoumaru and Rin were a viable pairing.

I think the author pulled it or something, because I can't find it, but basically there were more than 10 pages (of a word doc) that listed off all the reasons it could be a pairing.

It was an interesting outlook on it, and there were a lot of Asian readers who reviewed and said that most of the information was correct, with a few exceptions here or there.

The writer is probably one of the more well known Sesshoumaru Rin writers out there, and she lives in Japan if I recall, so she could be biased, but there were links and everything and a lot of people were agreeing with most of what she said.

I don't remember most of it, but there were things about Sesshoumaru not having Rin bow to him, when she obviously knows that she should bow, because she does in the beginning when she first meets him. There was a link to the kimono that Rin's was based on and it was the kimono of a princess.

My favorite line was something about how Sesshoumaru doesn't know about or care about the age of consent in a foreign country five hundred years in the future, especially since Japan's current modern age of consent is listed at thirteen.

Lords took little girls to be brides all the time back then, and there were also three times in real history that war lords took common girls from villages and married them, thus raising their status to that of a princess, so that is not unheard of either.

War lords who took osanadzuma 幼妻 (a word I learned from that fanfic and never forgot, because a culture doesn't need a word for something like that unless it's a common thing, and I actually looked it up and found all kinds of my own info on it and wrote a paper for my Japanese class at college about child brides in Japanese history) is a "very young bride, or child bride" left them in the care of women to protect their purity, and they learned about things like childbirth and care. It is interesting that that is what we see Rin learning about.

If he follows Japanese tradition then he'll continue to give her gifts and when she reaches the age of 12-14 she will have a mogi, (a traditional ceremony where a girl puts on a furisode-type kimono and is announced as being old enough and ready enough to entertain suitors or see the match maker) and then he'll court her for another year before offering her the choice to marry him. They will then try to have a male child within the first year. If they can do that, they will be considered 'lucky' and their marriage blessed by the kami.

Oh, and for the record, I multi-ship Sesshoumaru. I like Sesshoumaru and Rin as a pairing only when she's grown up (even if child brides were common they are still squicky and a little creepy to write about nowadays), and I like Sesshoumaru/Kagome as my main man/woman pairing. I like to yaoi ship Sesshoumaru with Kouga, too! The difference is that I know my pairing isn't canon, and don't try to be stupid about trying to prove how canon they are when they are clearly not.

I just read this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/archived_discussion.php?s_t=Main.StarCrossedLovers

Reading this makes my second hand embarrassment meter go off the scale for Soujinyeh.

I'm seriously blushing at her incomprehension of even basic concepts.

Based on the examples given, I could justify almost any pairing as 'canon'.

Sesshoumaru pushes Inuyasha out of the way of Sou'unga in the third movie. Sesshoumaru doesn't kill Inuyasha on his human night and he knows about it based on his reactions in the manga, Sesshoumaru saves Kagome's life a couple times, Sesshoumaru doesn't kill Kouga when he has the chance, despite the fact that Kouga killed Rin, he doesn't kill the monks that attack him when he's going to save Rin, (Though one could say that Sess will not kill in front of Rin, because he cares a lot what Rin thinks of him, based on him shutting Jaken up when Jaken says 'Don't let his calm demeanor fool you, underneath the surface Sesshoumaru is a boiling, seething mass of - *slap*), Sesshoumaru saves the badger demon who got his head cut off... I could go on and on and on.

Note that these are all more than he's ever done for Kagura in the canon. He didn't save Kagura's life ONCE, and he goes around saving lives throughout that entire manga/anime.

This girl used her own fic as part of an argument about canon? WTF?

Oh, and as for not saving Rin from the river until Jaken went in... He was going to let Jaken save her, but realized that it couldn't happen.

Sesshoumaru cares a hell of a lot more about Rin than he does about Jaken, based on Jaken's words in the hell arc, Sesshoumaru's mother asks Jaken what Rin is to Sesshoumaru and Jaken replies that "Though I have been in service to and known Sesshoumaru-sama for a much longer time than Rin, it is always Rin who is treated with the most favor".

He beats Jaken, and when Jaken insults Rin, he beats Jaken for it, and tells him to shut up. When Rin runs off on her own to get food and Jaken scolds her, Sesshoumaru tells Jaken to 'Shut up and leave her be'.

You know what's mature? Character bashing an eight year old girl because you're upset that another character loves her, and not the character you want him to.

No, purposely going around looking for that person and replying to their messages KNOWING exactly who the person is counts as "stalking". Please don't tell me that she didn't see my name up there when she chose to reply to me, because she did, and I can reply to her if she INITIATES something. Plus, she accused me of writing "troll!fics", which she wouldn't know unless she'd purposely been seeking me out to try to read my stuff. I haven't read anything she wrote in a year or so, because when I dislike someone I STAY AWAY FROM THEM, and don't go around stalking them.

I don't CARE if fics are posted bashing the pairing. BECAUSE I CAN RESPECT THE FACT THAT NO ONE IS REQUIRED TO LIKE THE SAME THING YOU DO. I hate people who think EVERYBODY needs to like the same thing and get mad when someone states that they dislike something they like. I love chocolate, but if someone said it was disgusting and they hated it, I wouldn't care.

And how the hell is it a reaction to me when that's been going on since before I ever went online? It's been happening ever since Sesshomaru started showing compassion for Kagura, and people who shipped him with others felt threatened. That's just the way it is, it happens to every pairing, deal with it.

Call it snarking a little, whatever, you said so yourself SHE was disrespectful first. If you start shit, guess what? People are gonna come back at you. I didn't take it personally at first, but like you said, she MADE it personal. And no, I didn't bring it up, SHE brought it up, SHE replied to my message, I talked to her respectfully and she went off for no reason. I can talk to her however I want. She isn't trying to stop jack shit, she's still wanking, and wank does beget wank so guess what? If don't want any, DON'T START ANY.

About the bowing thing: um, hello? This is Rumiko Takahashi manga. HER CHARACTERS DON'T ALWAYS FOLLOW TRADITIONAL JAPANESE CUSTOMS. Haven't you seen the way Miroku treats his foster father, Mushin? He's been known to kick him in the head, and you don't see him bowing to Mushin. Does that mean that Mushin isn't a father figure? Of course not. None of Naraku's incarnations ever bow to him. Shippo openly disrespects his elders, which he never would've gotten away with in Japanese/Asian culture but guess what? RUMIKO'S CHARACTERS DON'T FOLLOW THOSE NORMS. Do you ever see Kagome bowing to her mother or grandfather? Nope. Do you not see the way Ranma treats his father? Do Nabiki, Kasumi or Akane EVER bow to Soun? NO.

About the kimono: gonna have to quote myself. "It's true that kimonos can sometimes have romantic connotations, the keyword is sometimes. The same way flowers are traditionally courtship gifts-well everywhere-espcially a bouquet. And yet, Kohaku gave Sango a flower boquet in the anime. Flower bouquets are also usually seen as courting gifts. And yet, does that mean Kohaku and Sango are a couple? Absolutely not. It was just a sign of affection from a brother to his sister, just like the kimono is just a father providing for his daughter/giving her little things during a visit, like family members tend to do when they live away from each other.

Has no one noticed that Rin's mother is dead? The only clothes that Kaede can provide are miko robes, like the ones she gave Kagome to wear even before she was training as one. Who provided the girl's kimono if the girl had no mother? The father or father figure. Does that mean he's courting her? No."

No, because the badger incident was only because Tenseiga PULSED and told him to do so, and it was just a one time thing. For Kagura, he does it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

About the drowning thing: "Actually, he didn't go in after Rin either. He just stood there. He didn't go in after anyone until after JAKEN fell in. Only then did he move. So what are you trying to say? That he doesn't care about Rin either, and Jaken is the ONLY person he cares about?

Also, that's the same way he acted when he first met Rin. When he saw her dead body, he was originally gonna leave her. He didn't do anything until AFTER Tenseiga pulsed and told him to act. And only then did he save her.

However, that doesn't mean he didn't care, now does it? Sesshomaru is like that. He's the "stoic" character who likes to pretend that he cares about nobody, and deny that he has any good in him. But that doesn't mean he doesn't care-it just means that he's struggling to keep his persona on and TRY not to care..

Although he failed. He saved her anyway. Kagura was the largest, heaviest and the most burdensome out of all of them, and she was wet and unconscious. It would have been much easier to just ignore Kagura, and yet he didn't.

Plus afterwards, he stayed there. He didn't leave until she woke up and he knew she was okay, which he did not have to do."

And no, he does not "treat her like everyone else": "When and where does he show any hatred or disdain for her in any way shape or form? Sure at first he was wary of her because he didn't know her and she was Naraku's detachment, but he soon gets over that.

As a matter of fact, he was very tolerant-she used to yell and scream and curse and he'd just stand there, allowing it. The person who expressed disdain towards the other was Kagura, not Sesshomaru. He never even said one abusive WORD towards her, even while she was standing there cursing him out. He let her get away with EVERYTHING, including KIDNAPPING RIN. When Kagura kidnapped Rin, he blamed Naraku and choked Kohaku, but didn't even say a word to Kagura-he acted like he didn't even know it was her. No mention of it, even though Jaken constantly reminded him it was her.

In fact, after a little while, he took it apon himself to go to her and not the other way around. When they were looking for the gateway she was just standing there, and he hopped on the rock, got closer to her, and asked her what she knew even though the encounter before, she had kidnapped Rin. Jaken was standing there yelling that she'd kidnapped Rin and Rin was HIDING IN FEAR of her, and he did this.

He's also lied for her. When she gave him Fuyoheki shards, Goryoumaru asked him how he found him. Jaken was about to tell the truth and tell him about Kagura, but Sesshomaru told him to shut up and and lied to protect her. Not to mention the river incident.

All of the above happened BEFORE she died and not after. So the relationship had been slowly progressing for a while, with him showing a bit of mistrust in the beginning only, but getting over it.

And then the river incident happened, where yes, he didn't jump in until JAKEN (remember, he didn't jump in after Rin either, he didn't make a move until after Jaken jumped in) made a move, but that's Sesshomaru-he's reluctant to do anything that goes against that image he has of himself in his mind. But he DID save her, which he didn't have to do-it would've been much easier to just pick up Rin and Jaken, they're much smaller and lighter. Plus he stayed there with her until she woke up, which he didn't have to do. And then after that you have third party confirmation-from Rin herself, who is HAPPY about her observation.

Then while she's dying: he blew aside a chance to kill Naraku to get to her while she was dying. He made sure to let her know he had come specifically to see her (which is something he does not do, he usually tells people that he was "just passing through" or that they were "just in the way" when he gets caught helping someone). He drew Tenseiga WITHOUT it having to pulse and tell him to do so for the VERY FIRST TIME to save her. Tenseiga didn't ask him to save her, but he tried anyway. That was the first time he ever tried to save someone by his own will. That's something he didn't even do with Rin, until after this happened.

He knowingly put his own life in danger and broke his only offensive sword despite everyone's warnings just because Moryoumaru said a few bad words about her. Everyone was standing there, yelling at him to pull the sword out because it was gonna break and plus like Inuyasha said, his nose is sharp-so he knew it was gonna break. He knew he had no real way to fight without it, but risked his life anyway. If Inuyasha hadn't intervened at the last second, he probably wouldn't have gotten out alive. Even Moryoumaru had to point it out.

Tenseiga itself called out to Totosai, saying that Sesshomaru had learned enough compassion now and was ready to wield it as a fighting sword. That was the FIRST time, the VERY first time he'd been moved enough-meaning not even Rin had enough influence on him. When he was told about it, Sesshomaru instantly knew that Tenseiga was talking about Kagura. It didn't do that because of Rin or anyone else. It was his feelings for Kagura, as confirmed by Tenseiga itself, that took his heart to that next level.

When you have all of that...how can you say that Kagura's feelings for him were DEFINITELY romantic? Why doesn't anyone say that SHE liked him "as a friend"? What, because she wanted to see him before she died? If anything, it's more reasonable to say that HE was the one who was in love with her and she liked him as a friend.

Actively protecting someone from getting in trouble when you wouldn't usually give a damn about anyone else's life, letting them get away with things you would never tolerate from anyone else, completely ignoring any and all crimes/misdeeds (including kidnapping your adoptive daughter), saving them and staying there with them until you were sure they were okay, throwing away a chance to kill your number one enemy to see them before they died, making sure they knew you came for them when usually you would try to make it look like you were just passing through, trying to save them by your own free will without someone having to push you to do so when you've never done that for anyone before, purposely putting your life at risk just because someone said a few bad words about them (and then almost dying afterwards) and breaking your only weapon, later having Tenseiga-which can read your heart-confirm that you've been moved in a way that you've never been before in all the years the sword's been with you and that only no Sesshomaru's shown symphathy before. He's shown compassion before. He's had allies before, and continues to do sow were you ready to weild it as a weapon, and then making it your personal mission to avenge the person's death is a MUCH bigger deal than following someone and wanting to see them before you died.

Sesshomaru shows more signs of loving Kagura than she does of loving him. The person she's shown the most actual compassion for is Kohaku, who she died to save (but still is not a love interest since she sees him more like a little brother).

If you're gonna say it's one-sided, then it's more logical to say that Sesshomaru was the one who loved Kagura and Kagura only like him as a friend. Seriously, if you're gonna say he saw her as a friend, then where is the evidence that Kagura didn't just see him as a friend as well?

No one ever denied that Sesshomaru loves Rin. He loves her very much. But that doesn't mean that he loves her in a ROMANTIC way, especially since in Eastern culture, there's nothing we hold on a higher pedastool than paternal love. Sango also routinely saves Kohaku's life...routinely. Does that mean Kohaku's her love interest now? No. Also...the movies aren't canon. And ep.99 is filler, not canon. Plus, the way Koga speaks seems to imply that whatever he thinks is going on between them is DIFFERENT from how he sees Kagome.

About the "comparison" to his father: Note that Rumiko Takahashi made sure to make her say in a "strange way", meaning NOT exactly the same. Meaning? Yes, he's becoming like his father in the sense that he is caring for humans-but like his mother said, IN A STRANGE WAY, NOT EXACTLY THE SAME-in that instead of developing a romantic bond with a human, Sesshomaru has developed a PATERNAL bond instead. Buying her a kimono meant for nobility doesn't mean that he likes her in a romantic way: rich people do that for their daughters/daughter figures all the time. Nobility dress their kids in clothes that are meant for nobility.

The profile isn't official canon. I just checked furinkan (official RT website) and the profile up there is different. YTV =/= official Rumiko Takahashi source. Hell, even if it was Sunrise I'd be skeptical since the anime isn't canon and the authors usually have very little say over adaptations of their work. Do you have an interview from Rumiko where she says that? Has shitaui ever been used in the MANGA? Anything else is just outside speculation.

Actually, he didn't "just leave her" in the end (of course, by that time he'd already been with her for three years which is more than enough time to count as a father (more time than I'd spent with any of my foster parents), he's still visiting her and providing for her actively while she lives somewhere else. That's normal within families-the child moves out/goes to college or whatever, and they usually still do get visits from their families along with presents and care packages.

How in the world does that mean it's a romantic thing? Rin is living with humans for her safety and is gaining independence from her parent figure (like all children do), they're still in touch, like children and parents do after the child moves out of the house. Parents visit their grown children after they leave, bringing them gifts. And most children, even after they move out, still do depend on their parent figures from time to time for financial assisstance and need help. Is a father courting his daughter when he picks up a little something for her?

I grew up in foster care in different living arrangements, and depending on the circumstances, kids that are allowed to see and want to see their parents-and of course, the kid has to give their permission too-have visits. The parents come to see the kids, sometimes take them out places, and they usually bring gifts. This is what gives a lot of kids in foster care something to look forward to. When I saw the last chapter, it immediately reminded me of that, so I was shocked when people started using even that as so-called 'evidence'.

About the kimono: once again, it can have romantic connotations, but NOT ALWAYS. Just like flowers and jewelry are usually courting gifts, but NOT ALWAYS, and Kohaku WASN'T courting Sango by giving her flowers. In a case like Rin's where she's living with a miko who seems to only be able to provide miko robes and her mother is dead, it does not make Sesshomaru any less of a father figure or mean that he is "courting her" by giving her a kimono.

Inuyasha said "...or whatever she chooses", implying that Rin had a choice in the matter (living with Kaede), and wasn't forced to do it (which is obvious in the way she acts, she doesn't seem to object living with Kaede at all). That doesn't make her a love interest for Sesshomaru.

The "human things" she is practicing consist of helping Kaede with whatever miko stuff she does, midwife duties (helping Sango give birth), and just learning to get along with humans in general (it's good for her, she needs it). Which is all the more proof that she is there for her safety (Sesshomaru decided to do this after she died and he realized his life was too dangerous for her) and not meant to reunite with him-if she was, WHY would she need to learn to do "human things" if she was meant to be with him? Why would she live with a MIKO out of all things, in a peasant village, helping out with things like labour...? If she was meant to go with Sesshomaru, she would've been living with his mother in the sky or something in a castle, or would've just stayed with him.

And how was Kohaku "gotten rid" of (not that I think he was ever meant to be with her to begin with)...? He didn't die, he's training as a demon slayer...how does that "get rid" of Kohaku?

No one ever denied that it happened historically. While Japan does have a more relaxed attitude towards it, it's a controversial thing there as well with plenty of Japanese people disliking it, and that doesn't mean Rumiko Takahashi is IMMEDIATELY gonna have no problem with it just because she's Japanese. That's like saying someone MUST eat cats and dogs because they're Korean.

Like I said, it's a CONTROVERSIAL thing, and even in Japan there are plenty of people who oppose it. The famous director, Hayao Miyazaki (a JAPANESE man) said in a 1988 interview with "Animage" that while he prefers to have female protagonists, "It's difficult. They immediately become the subjects of lolicon. In a sense, if we want to depict someone who is affirmative to us, we have no choice but to make them as lovely as possible. But now, there are too many people who shamelessly depict (such heroines) as if they just want (such girls) as pets, and things are escalating more and more." Miyazaki even expressed concern as to what this might mean for human rights for women.

I myself have come across PLENTY of Japanese people who have expressed outright disdain and hatred for such things. Just because Rumiko is Japanese, where lolicon is more common than the USA, does not automatically mean that she sees it the same way. In fact, though it is a popular thing, there's just as many people who oppose it as well-kind of like how gay couples, same-sex marriage, premarital sex, abortion, divorce, and interracial marriage (which are all more common in the US) are seen over here. It is definitely not a normal thing that is accepted by everyone, there is controversy over it.

She's not gonna be okay with it just because she's Japanese-so how DOES she feel about it? That's been made very clear in the way she portrayed Miroku and Koharu. When everyone found out he had proposed to an eleven year old girl to bear his child when she got older, they were shocked, disgusted and revolted. The situation was used to solidify his character as a pervert and a lecher. They didn't care if she was now fourteen and he was seventeen-they were still disgusted and thought I was taking advantage of her naivete.

Even before then, there was Akane, who was relentlessly mocked for her crush on Dr. Tofu and later lost him to her sister Kasumi, who is around his age.

Now does that sound like something that would've been written by someone who has no problem with this kind of thing? Nope. She's made it pretty clear that she finds it ridiculous. Plus there's the fact that Rin is ridiculously happy about the idea of Kagura having feelings for Sesshomaru...yeah, if she meant for Rin to be a love interest, she never would've written it that way-especially since she's famous for building her relationships off of jealousy and love triangles.

Aristarae-actually...I consider ALL of those pairings canon. I consider Inu/Kik canon, Inutaisho/Izayaoi canon, Inutaisho/Sessmom canon. And I've read that fic before, but it's true, just because there's people that think it's canon doesn't mean it is. I've met Sess/Rin shippers who consider Sess/Kagura canon, Inucest shippers, Shippo/Koga shippers who think that sess/Kagura is canon but I wouldn't use that as validation because just because they see it as canon without shipping it doesn't mean it is.

About the whole "she'd dead" thing (like I haven't heard that a thousand times before): in TRAGIC romances, one part of the couple usually dies before the other. Just because it was tragic does not mean it wasn't a romance.

In that case, that means Inupapa/Izayoi, Inupapa/Sessmom and Inuyasha/Kikyo aren't canon. That means that Romeo and Juliet never loved each other. That would mean Jack and Rose from Titanic aren't canon.

Just because one party died before the other doesn't mean the feelings were never there. Think back to the loved ones you lost-does the fact they died mean that you never loved each other? No.

No matter how it ends up, IF THEY HAVE RECIPROCATED ROMANTIC INTEREST IN EACH OTHER DURING THE SERIES, it's canon. And Sesshomaru and Kagura, though they didn't actually get togehter or develop a relationship, DO. The evidence is right there. And it wasn't just not letting her die alone or "defending her honor" (more like knowingly risking your life and almost dying because of it), and he HAS saved her life (once indirectly by lying to Moryoumaru and covering up for her, once in the river, and though it didn't work, he DID attempt to save her while he was dying without Tenseiga even having to pulse or tell him to do so), not to mention Tenseiga's reaction, Totosai's reaction, his whole "I will be the one to decide whether she died in vain" thing, I could go on and on and on (I already have actually, read my post around...2 posts before this, I'm not gonna re-post it)-he shows more devotion towards her than she does for him what with her...giving him information or wanting to see him once.

And where is the proof that Sesshomaru automatically dislikes someone's children just because he dislikes them? If anything, he knows that you are not your parent since he's had to distinguish himself from his father's shadow. He hates Naraku, but he's not shallow enough to label someone else because of their parent-that's obvious in the way he treats Kagura in spite of her coming from Naraku (read a couple posts above). He doesn't care.

And no one ever said something needs to be canon for you to ship it. There's plenty of pairings that I like that aren't canon, my OTP for Death Note is L/Misa. I've written Kagura with Kikyo. Go ship whatever you want, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, RECOGNIZE AND ADMIT WHAT'S CANON. There was ZERO lying or distortion of truth-because that's what I can't stand.

Like people have said before, this actually ISN'T my "OTP". I like it cause I like anything with Kagura in it (I'll read anything with Kagura in it, but usually this because most Kagura fics are Sess/Kagura), but I don't exactly claim it as an "OTP" or "ship" it. I defend its canonicity BECAUSE IT'S CANON and I don't understand how the hell you can't see that. If someone said Inu/Kik wasn't canon, I'd say it is (which I sometimes do have to do)...BECAUSE IT IS, whether I ship it (I don't) or not.

Once again, it's not just him not killing her-I've already listed all the reasons. Also, he may not be her father BIOLOGICALLY, but that doesn't mean he's not her father figure canonically. Rumiko's written parent figures for her characters without them being blood related before, and just because you haven't gone "OMG DADDY" in less than a year doesn't mean that the relationship wasn't meant to resemble a paternal relationship, especially since the author shows strong hints that she HATES that kind of pairing. She doesn'[t have to bow to him, since Rumiko's characters usually DON'T bow to their parent figures (read above), and at the end he IS still indirectly raising her by providing for her like a parent should after their child leaves the nest (after he's already done so for three years). Him leaving her at the end with the old woman instead of marrying her (if it's canon, why not? Wasn't she at the "right age"?) or staying with her so that she can be safe because his life is too dangerous for her (not gonna change when she gets older) and the story ending right there and not going any further is even more proof (IMO) that the two were never meant to be seen as love interests.

Furthermore...seeing as how she randomly introduced Kagura and made sure that Rin was EXCITED about it and not jealous and wrote it everything that I pointed out above...and seeing as how Rumiko has a history of introducing new characters/pairings out of nowhere in order to stop the fans from shipping pairings she DOESN'T LIKE...it looks like she purposely did that in an attempt to deter the Sess/Rin ship since she never thought people would start looking at the characters in THAT way.

I think I've read the fic you're talking about. I've already written a response to it, and about the "Asian reviewers"-I AM ASIAN. I still have a green card for heaven's sake. And I know plenty of Japanese people who detest that pairing, which is all the more proof that Rumiko's not gonna think a certain way just because she's Japanese. That author doesn't live in Japan, she visits yearly for a couple of months. Which is RIDICULOUS to use as "validation" because my GRANDPARENTS do the same thing when they visit my parents every year, and yet, would you say that they're experts in English or American culture? Hardly. It also had a large number of reviews on there (from people I already know are Asian...one girl was Japanese) disagreeing and pointing out the flaws with it, and I'm not the only one who wrote a response to it.

Once again, Rin does not have to bow to him because Rumiko's characters don't bow to their parent figures (and are very often abusive to them), and him dressing her like nobility doesn't mean he sees her as a love interest since nobility tend to dress their children like nobility.

Sesshomaru is a fictional character being written by a woman who, while being Japanese, is NOT gonna think a certain way just because of her nationality and has shown time and time again that she doesn't support that kind of pairing. And...they learned about childbirth, but that's not the same thing as doing midwife duties. They wouldn't have been sent to go live with miko, in peasant villages-if Rumiko was trying to write what you're claiming is happening, she never would've been with Kaede, she would've been with some sort of noblewoman in a castle of sorts learning how to be nobility and rise in rank.

Like I said, I DON'T think that something needs to be canon for you to ship it. I have some non-canon apirings that I like as well, but guess what? You still have to recognize and admit what IS the canon pairing.

Like I said, it isn't because of not killing someone or sparing their life once or twice. For Kagura he does it REPEATEDLY, and was Tenseiga taken to the next level because of Inuyasha, Kagome, or Koga? Did he lie to save their lives? Did he knowingly break tokijin for them?

You can't deny that Rumiko purposely made a MUCH bigger deal with what happened with Tenseiga and Tokijin and Kagura's death than she EVER did for any of those instances-which says a LOT about her intentions, and shows that those events meant more to her.

He's only met Koga once, which is not the case with Kagura, and to my knowledge, he doesn't even know that Koga was the one who killed Rin. He's unaware of that, whereas with Kagura it was made painfully obvious. And the badger demon thing was only once, plus Tenseiga had to pulse for him to do it adn it wasn't out of his own free will.

Also, Sesshomaru DOES have love for Inuyasha and Kagome. But with them, it was a gradual thing that built up as time went along, as a platonic relationship (and he's never done something like BREAK TOKIJIN just because they were insulted, KNOWING that he'd die, and something like Tenseiga itself confirming that something happened with his heart that has NEVER happened before (which is obviously a much bigger deal than sparing someone's life once or twice) has never happened with them). Tenseiga didn't react this way for any of those occasions, and his relationship with this Kagura bears no resemblance to any of those. Plus with them, he's had enough time to gradually come to see them as allies-with Kagura, it just sort of came out of nowhere-they've actually only spoken a few times. And family relationships take time to develop and form (like he's had time to do with Jaken and Rin, traveling/living with them for years) so that can't be it, and Tenseiga's not gonna react like THAT (its confirmation was that NO ONE had ever moved him like that before) to a casual "ally". When emotions THAT intense come out of just a few encounters...that sounds like a crush has developed, and crushed very well CAN stir intense feelings within someone in a short period of time.

Didn't YOU just bring up someone else's fic to try to validate canon? How's this any different? It's a fic, but it's not a piece of FICTION, it's an opinion piece pointing out things that happened in the manga, so I don't see how that's irrelevant.

"Oh, and as for not saving Rin from the river until Jaken went in... He was going to let Jaken save her, but realized that it couldn't happen."- What sense does that make? If you say it THAT way, then you might as well say "He was gonna let Rin save Kagura, but realized it couldn't happen." Plus, I wasn't saying that he didn't care about her, I was pointing out the fact that just because he didn't immediately go "OH NOES I MUST LEAP IN THE RIVER RIGHT AWAY" doesn't mean that he doesn't care or didn't want to help.

And what's with all stuff about Jaken...? I agree, and I never implied that he cares more about Jaken then Rin, I was just pointing out that just because he didn't jump in after Kagura immediately doesn't mean he doesn't care about her, just like just because he didn't immediately jump in after Rin doesn't mean he didn't care.

And what's with the "character bashing" statement? I've never "character bashed" Rin. I've made fun of FANDOM PORTRAYALS of her as "Older Rin", but making fun of how the fandom tends to portray her isn't the same thing as character bashing (even though I've seen Kagura get bashed...all the time).

No one cares about YOU, soojinyeh. People care about the quality of the wiki article. No one is 'stalking' you by being on tvTropes, which is a giant site, that has hundreds of thousands of users.

Your edits to this page been biased, have offered up YOUR INTERPRETATIONS (as seen through shipper goggles) AS FACT, and have excluded relevant information in order to downplay the Sesshoumaru/Rin dynamic, in favor of focusing on the nearly non-existent Sesshoumaru/Kagura "dynamic".

When I edited this wiki months ago to include canon information about Rin and the Hell Arc, you reverted the FACTUAL edits, despite the fact that it was not even about shipping them.

This is a wiki, meant to be based on fact, not interpretation and you seem to fail to understand that editing the wiki in a biased manner will not make your pairing canon.

NO ONE IS TELLING YOU NOT TO LIKE YOUR PAIRING, what they are telling you is that it is not canon, and your edits to this page have been extremely BIASED in favor of you ship, because you believe it to be canon when it's not.

Star-Crossed lovers means that the characters have to be 'lovers', and Sesshoumaru and Kagura are NOT LOVERS in the canon, nor is there any indication that Sesshoumaru even has romantic interest in Kagura.

There is no indication of reciprocated interest on Sesshoumaru's part.

NONE.

He does far more, for many other characters, including Kagome, than he ever does for Kagura.

If he loved Kagura, then why didn't he ever try and do something, ANYTHING to show it?

Why don't we hear him talk about how he's angry she's under Naraku's control, or why doesn't he vow to save her? Why doesn't he make some sort of promise that he'll help her? Why does he leave it up to RIN on if he accepts her help when she gives him the heart-locating shard?

There were SO many things he could have said or done to show at least SOME kind of romantic interest, and he never does ANYTHING.

And don't say it would be OOC, because he more than once vows to save Rin, or vows to get Rin back from Naraku.

There is absolutely nothing he does, no action he performs, NOTHING to suggest Sesshoumaru has romantic interest in Kagura.

He does more for almost every other character in the series, as far as actions go.

Yeah. He doesn't let her die alone. Big deal. That is not an indication of 'true love', especially considering at that time in canon Takahashi-sensei was trying to do things to show his growing maturity and compassion.

She used Kagura's death as a tool to show Sesshoumaru is less of dickhead now.

That isn't an indication of romantic love.

Even Kagura's side of it was more that she admired him for his strength and saw him as her best hope for freedom.

As for fandom portrayals of older!Rin, yeah, a lot of them are pretty awful. Rin is usually either portrayed as pathetically pining away for Sesshoumaru or as a constant victim or helpless and weak and dependant on Sesshoumaru for every little thing, which if you look at the episode "Jaken falls ill", we see she's a strong, smart, somewhat independent little girl at even eight years old. She also gets raped more than any other Inu Yasha character I've ever seen in fanfic, and sex with Sesshoumaru is frequently the "cure" for her trauma, which is also insulting to rape victims and a pretty shabby premise. I won't argue with you there.

Kagura getting bashed isn't cool either. Character bashing of any sort is immature and stupid.

Writing a fic where it's implied that Sesshoumaru wouldn't have gone in and saved Rin from the river if not for Jaken going in is some pretty epic missing the point, and/or twisting of canon though. Down playing the Sesshoumaru/Rin dynamic in a Sesshoumaru/Kagura fanfic is unnecessary, unless you see her as a potential rival for his affections. If you are going for a canon interpretation, and you're writing Rin as some kind of servant, or as anything less than the most important person in the world to him, you pretty much fail.

He states that "Nothing could be worth the cost of Rin's life", and he decides that Rin is more important than his sword, and his quest for ultimate power. ("This arm, was only meant to hold a sword" and then moments later there is a panel highlighting how he drops that sword, in favor of holding Rin instead. Then we see, "What's the point of it now?" (The quest for power/strengthening his sword) "For something like this" (power), "I let you die... Rin, WAKE UP!" *Sesshoumaru sad/defeated/broken face* "NOTHING could worth the cost of Rin's life!" *purifies the dead, meidou opens up* "I WON'T LET YOU DIE! Rin, I'M BRINGING YOU BACK!"

Now, let's compare his reaction to Kagura's death...

"Tenseiga... can't save her." *looks on with blank face, then walks away.*

After that, when she's implied to be a worthless whore (not my words, Japanese version of the manga) by one of Naraku's incarnations, Sesshoumaru defends the honor of a fallen comrade.

I've seen people dismiss this as, "Sesshoumaru fought harder because he was insulted someone would think he cared enough about Kagura that mentioning her in battle would affect him", but I don't think that's the case.

I think she'd earned his reluctant respect in choosing to die rather than living on as a servant of a "disgusting creature", aka Naraku.

Begrudging respect is not romantic love.

Again, there is NO indication whatsoever that Sesshoumaru has romantic feelings for Kagura. NONE.

STOP EDITING THE WIKI IN A BIASED MANNER, STOP REVERTING EDITS THAT MENTION CANON HAPPENINGS WITH RIN, AND STOP OFFERING UP YOUR INTERPRETATIONS AS FACT and go back to writing your sub-standard fanfiction.

@ 96.234.187.181. I said "Contemporary" canon. What I said about those other pairings had no bearing on what this discussion was about other than to say other than those (which take place in the canon universe's past) the only canon pairing that could be proved was Mir/Sango.

I'm not trying to be mean, but do you comprehend what anyone is saying to you? I never said you didn't consider them canon.

Also - 8 COMMENTS - 8 COMMENTS!!! So much that scrolling down this page your new comments take up HALF of it. Don't you think that's a little overboard? You're also not doing anything to help your argument by flailing all over here writing what amounts to an essay.

Ship what you want, you don't need to prove it's canon to ship it. You really don't, I swear this. There's lots of people that ship non-canon pairings because they like it and are happy to read and write the pairing they like. It isn't important, it doesn't matter. You don't have to justify shipping a pairing, you really don't. If someone tells you shouldn't, simply answer with : "This is the pairing I like, and I'll ship it if I want, thank you."

Please. Eight comments, and you're asking me why *I* care? Do you even know how insane you look right now?

You've been proven wrong over and over again.

You said the profile wasn't canon, when it is, and that was proven with links.

Sesshoumaru didn't lie, he just didn't have any reason to tell Moryomaru ANYTHING. So he didn't. It gives him no strategic advantage. Sesshoumaru isn't exactly known as a 'talker'.

Sesshoumaru keeping his mouth shut isn't exactly earth-shattering.

Okay, he also doesn't go around and tell every demon about Inuyasha's human form, and he states over and over that he supposedly HATES Inuyasha.

Sesshoumaru sparing someone's life also isn't exactly earth shattering. He never kills ANYONE unless he has to. Not even humans, when he claims to dislike humans oh so very much.

He didn't kill the monks who were attacking him either, so I guess he and the monks had a big orgy afterward and he's totes in love with them, cuz now I ship it.

He also didn't kill the men who surrounded and shot at him with guns. He hit their shoulders, and knocked the guns away. SESSHOUMARU IS NOT A MINDLESS KILLER, AND SPARES ALMOST EVERYONE.

In fact, if he doesn't kill you, it probably indicates he just thinks you're UNWORTHY of his attention, and his effort. Y'know... Like Kagura.

Oh, and I love how you claim to know Sesshoumaru's mind when you say that he 'doesn't care' that Kagura is a part of Naraku... Um, yeah, he calls her an inferior offshoot more than once, and comments on her disgusting scent being the same as the disgusting scent of Naraku.

Do you NOT see how you saying 'He doesn't care' is NOT FACT but INTERPRETATION?!? How do you not know the difference between opinion and provable fact? HOW DOES THIS BASIC CONCEPT ESCAPE YOU?

No really, you're just... OMFG FACEPALM.JPG.

Every argument you've put forth has been countered and destroyed, and now you've gone to 'I respect the fact that people don't have to like what I do!'

Well, no you don't. Google tells me so. (In B 4 'OMGZ STALKING!' No, I just noticed you were rather batshit, and wanted to know the level of crazy I was dealing with here... Oh, and it is an impressive level of crazy. I also googled up Jinxycat and Sesshoumaru, and got her other name and fanfic pages as well, oddly she seems rather laid back, and she is ALSO A SESS KAGURA SHIPPER, but not an insane one. Even your fellow shippers think you're over the top. That should TELL YOU SOMETHING.)

Upon doing the smallest amount of checking into your history, I've discovered that you've previously bashed the hell out of Sesshoumaru and Rin shippers, called people pedophiles for shipping it, posted fics under sock accounts where Sesshoumaru talks about vomiting at the idea of being with Rin, left anti-yaoi reviews on author's fanfiction, left 'flames' on people's fanfiction, tried your best to insert yourself into other wank, and basically been a completely immature person in just about EVERY respect I can think of when dealing with fandom.

I don't care who you ship, I care about the quality of the wiki article being compromised because you have some pro-Sess Kagura agenda.

I care because of the distortion of the wiki article, and your obvious bias concerning mentioning anything regarding Rin, who is a main character and whose interactions with Sesshoumaru are central to the plot of Inu Yasha.

(Facepalm) Did you not read a SINGLE thing I posted above? I COMPLETEY FUCKING UNDERSTAND THAT I CAN'T TELL THE TRUTH HERE. HAVE YOU NOT NOTICED THAT I STOPPED WHEN I WAS TOLD TO STOP? And seriously, if I've ever reverted any edits you made, I don't remember it. I'm here right now because I AM BEING ADDRESSED. Someone posted a message TO ME, and I;m RESPONDING. DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH THE WIKI.

No they're not "lovers", in a sense that they don't actually get together, but HAVE YOU NOT READ EVERYTHING I'VE POINTED OUT? He makes it very clear he cares about her, to the point that Tenseiga itself confirms that NO ONE had moved him the way she had before-that kind of intense devotion doesn't happen between "allies", and he hasn't known her well enough to think of her as "family"-that sounds like a crush. Did he ever do anything like that for Kagome? NO. And yes he HAS saved her life (wow, why am I being forced to repeat myself?), once indirectly by lying for her, once in the river, and though it didn't work he attempted to save her while she was dying, then he nearly died trying to defend her honor (which is obviously a smaller deal than her life) and on top of all that-Tenseiga calls out Totosai because of her when it's ready to become a "fighting sword", and then he swears it on himself to avenge her. When even TOTOSAI has to confirm it, how the hell can you say he never showed love for her just because he was distrustful of her at first? And it wasn't JUST her death, it goes on for CHAPTERS after that-Rumiko GRADUALLY built up that relationship (albeit one she thought up of at the last minute to deter Sess/Rin, but still one she thought to insert). Like I said, TRY ACTUALLY READING MY POSTS. I'VE ALREADY CITED PLENTY OF INSTANCES WHERE HE SHOWED DEVOTION FOR HER. I agree with you about Kagura though.

EXACTLY. And just because you point out what the fandom tends to do DOES NOT mean it's character bashing, sometimes I've had Rin fight her own canon portrayal.

Ugh...once again, why do I need to repeat myself? I NEVER IMPLIED HE WOULDN'T HAVE SAVED HER IF NOT FOR JAKEN. I pointed it out that just because he didn't jump in after Kagura immediately doesn't mean he doesn't care about her, just like just because he didn't immediately jump in after Rin doesn't mean he didn't care. And if you'd actually read, I don't even actually HAVE Sess/Kagura centric fics, except this one parody. I've never downplayed her importance to him-she's a typical daddy's girl, have you even read what you're trying to talk about?

Sure, it TOOK HIM LONGER to respond to Kagura's death than Rin's-and I never said that his bond with Rin's wasn't stronger than his bond with Kagura's. But here's the thing: THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT ROMANTIC BECAUSE PATERNAL RELATIONSHIPS ARE STRONGER THAN ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS. How the hell is this not obvious?

You're SUPPOSED to love your daughter more than you love your girlfriend/crush. ESPECIALLY in Eastern culture where your parents are basically Gods. I mean...seriously? No one ever denied that he has a stronger relationship with Rin than Kagura-just that having a stronger relationship DOESN'T MEAN IT'S ROMANTIC. Loving someone more doesn't mean you love than IN A CERTAIN WAY.

Are you serious? "Begrudging respect"? If you had said that...maybe after she died, I would've agreed-but when he's sitting there BREAKING HIS SWORD (if his DROPPING a sword is signifies "love", how the hell does BREAKING a sword signify "just respect"?) even though he knew he'd DIE without it, and then for him to sit there moping about it afterwards and for Tenseiga to call out to Totosai and say it's ready to be fighting sword because "something is present in his heart that was NEVER there before", and for him to take it because "whether she died in vain or not is up to me"...that goes WAAAAAAY beyond just "grudging respect". That's something deeper, something you have for lovers or people that are lovers or almost like family...and she didn't "family" since that kind of bond takes time to cultivate. There's only one option left.

WHILE I AM BIASED, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY OF MY POINTS ANY LESS VALID (btw...you're biased too). I'VE ALREADY STOPPED EDITING, I'M HERE RESPONDING BECAUSE I WAS ADDRESSED. You're talking to me, aren't you? Then I'm gonna reply.

Never said that you implied I didn't consider them canon. Just stating that I do. Yeah, it's a lot, but I received around 6-8 messages so that's how many RESPONSES I'll post. If I had only gotten one message I would have only posted once.

And like I've already said, I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CANON for you to ship it. There's plenty of pairings that I like that aren't canon. Except...this one isn't one of them. To be honest, I don't even exactly "ship" this pairing, I just like it cause Kagura's in it and it's who she's usually paired with. I say it's canon because it IS-just like I don't ship Inu/Kik, but if someone says it's not canon I'll disagree.

WHILE I AM BIASED, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY OF MY POINTS ANY LESS VALID

Actually, when it comes to editing the wiki, it DOES make your points less valid.

This wiki is about facts, not your opinion. Had you not consistantly reverted factual edits in favor of supporting your ship, then this wouldn't have even happened.

Yeah, um... Tenseiga confirmed he'd learned compassion outside of his own little realm and followers.

It is ONLY MEANINGFUL because he DID NOT LOVE HER.

His compassion for Rin is still selfish in nature, because HE HURTS when she dies. He is saving her, in part, because HE IS HURTING.

With Kagura, his compassion is MORE MEANINGFUL because it shows his compassion is on a large scale, and not confined to those that HE CARES ABOUT PERSONALLY.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT! THE WHOLE POINT WAS THAT HE FINALLY FELT COMPASSION FOR SOMEONE THAT HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT PERSONALLY.

That is why he was stated as being moved in a way he had never been before.

And no, I'm not biased for Sesshoumaru and Rin. I prefer Sesshoumaru and Kagome. I can just look at things objectively and realize that in that manga/anime, the most LIKELY pairing is older!Rin and Sesshoumaru, or Sesshoumaru and NO ONE.

"No they're not "lovers", in a sense that they don't actually get together, but HAVE YOU NOT READ EVERYTHING I'VE POINTED OUT? He makes it very clear he cares about her, to the point that Tenseiga itself confirms that NO ONE had moved him the way she had before-that kind of intense devotion doesn't happen between "allies"..."

You REALLY think that proves a romantic interest or a pairing? I'm not even saying this in support of Sessh/Rin,but he decides to THROW AWAY Tensaiga when it couldn't save Rin, during the Hell Arc. If the sword and it's behavior based on his feelings are so important, you could argue the Sessh/Rin pairing a hell of a lot more on that basis than Kagura.

And to be clear here, I don't ship either one or the other. I actually like both Rin and Kagura, and I like Sesshoumaru, I read het, yaoi, and yuri, and I'm sorry, but it doesn't mean anything, nothing at all. You really need to take your ship goggles off, as a person looking at this who is completely unbiased, to me you appear very irrational, and like you're pulling things out of the air to justify a pairing. Like I said, ship what you want, but stop arguing (and from what I've read changing the wiki) because of your own personal misguided, misinterpretations.

@Aristarae

What's really funny is that the WHOLE REASON that Sesshoumaru is even going after Naraku is stated as being because he kidnapped Rin.

Episode: Rin "So all this is for ME?" Jaken being dense: "Don't be foolish you silly child! Sesshoumaru-sama's honor was insulted when you were kidnapped!"

Yeah... Considering Rin was kidnapped by Kagura, and that means that Kagura was the one directly involved in insulting Sesshoumaru's honor, and honor means EVERYTHING to him, I'm somehow doubting she's on his list of favorite people.

"However, Sesshomaru gradually changes after using Tenseiga, another sword made from one of their father's fangs, to revive the human child Rin. His growing compassion prompts the master swordsmith Totosai to reforge Tenseiga, enabling the Meidou Zangetsuha ("dark path of the dawn's moon blast") attack. -> After Naraku attempts to manipulate him by using Rin as a hostage, Sesshomaru becomes determined to destroy Naraku. <- He eventually gains his own blade that is a manifestation of his own power, the Bakusaiga." - Link =http://wapedia.mobi/en/List_of_InuYasha_characters

"Although Sesshomaru maintains a stern, and at times even heartless exterior, his companionship with Rin is proof of his growing compassion. He not only tolerates a human, but also acts in an extremely protective manner towards her and rushes to her aid when she gets in trouble. Naraku later had Kagura kidnap Rin as a get-away plan in his attempt to absorb the body and the full yōkai power of Sesshomaru. Naraku's plan failed as Inuyasha showed up to join the fight, the two brothers attacked Naraku, injuring him severely. Naraku prepared to escape, and Sesshomaru was intent on transforming an pursuing him, but upon hearing from Naraku that he was going to have Rin killed, Sesshomaru opted to rush to Rin's aid, and Naraku escaped. After rescuing Rin, he subsequently decided to do everything he could to kill Naraku. At this point, Sesshomaru's status becomes that of an anti-hero instead of an enemy to Inuyasha and friends, both parties placing aside their differences to oppose the greater threat. "

Eight comments IN RESPONSE to just as many messages-if I had received only one message, I would've responded with only one.

Exactly when was I "proven wrong over and over again" and how? You haven't even addressed anything I said, it sounds to me like you haven't even read it, you're just repeating your previous arguments without reading my counters.

The profile isn't canon-in order to be canon it has to come from RT herself, the link was to YTV, which isn't something written by Rumiko, and the profile on furinkan (her official site) is different.

Sesshomaru did lie. He was asked how he found Moryoumaru, and although he KNEW it was because Kagura gave him the shards, when Jaken's about to yap, he tells him to shut up and then LIES to cover up Kagura and says that he tracked scent when he knows that's not true.

Um...he DOESN'T hate Inuyasha...the fact that he spares him and keeps his secret and helps him out (albeit later on) is proof that he's starting to come to accept his brother, no matter how much he tries to deny it (that's just him, he likes to play tough).

He didn't just "spare" her life one or twice, he repeatedly purposely saved her, has put his own life out on the line for her, not to mention Tenseiga's confirmation.

Those monks/men-like I said, once doesn't count as a relationship and if you can't see that him ROUTINELY saving someone on purpose is an indication that he cares about that person, you're fucked. "Not killing" is not "going out of your way to save" like he did for Kagura. Has he ever put his life out on the line for those men just because someone insulted them...has he PURPOSELY BROKEN a weapon? When Tenseiga called Totosai and said that his heart was "complete" now and had been changed in a way it NEVER was before...was it because of them? There's a difference between sparing someone once and purposely saving them repeatedly. But then again, according to your argument, him saving Rin doesn't count for anything either. Say what you want, but it's really obvious that Sesshomaru's actions speak louder than his words and he'll often deny that he cares about people that he does care about (rofl, Kagura is much more verbally abusive towards him than he is towards her...no one ever said that they weren't wary of each other INITIALLY. And when did he ever call her an "inferior offshoot"?)

If you were trying to insert a pic, it didn't work.

I'm sorry, but how in the fuck does pointing things out count as "batshit"? Stating something is canon and pointing things out =/= not respecting your right to like something else. Like I said, ship whatever you want. I don't care. Dislike whatever you want. But you still gotta recognize what's canon-I don't ship Inu/Kag, but I know it's canon-and if I say it is, that's NOT the same thing as trying to get you to like it. Also hon...call me whatever you want, but if you haven't noticed, I've only been RESPONDING to your posts...which means that you're just as "batshit" as you've accused me of being.

"Fellow" shippers? ROFL, what, so it's some sort of "club" now? Seriously? "Bashed the hell out of"...? If by "bashing", you mean "correcting", sure. I've only called one person a pedophile and while I admit it was a low blow and a cheap shot, it's kind of hypocritical of you to call me "immature" while you're sitting here digging up shit that's years old. Vomiting at the idea of being with Rin, yes, what's wrong with that? I make fun of this pairing ragularly, I've never bashed Rin, but the pairing. And it wasn't a "sock", it was a shared account with an RP forum I was on. And get your facts straight-it wasn't about the yaoi, it was about the manner in which it was written. And what "flames" or "wank"? I'm the one being immature...and yet you're the one sitting here pretending you know what's going on...and you're the one who messaged me first?

"I don't care who you ship"-I don't buy that. Like I said, I've already stopped editing a long time ago, so I don't buy the whole "it's for the quality of the article" thing. I'VE STOPPED EDITING. I'm here because I'm being addressed. If you're gonna talk to me, i'm gonna respond.

How was I proven wrong?

Profile mean anything to you? You know, the one that is only fan-made and totes not canon at all?

He repeatedly purposely saved her?

LOLWUT?!?

Apparently, you can't read, either the manga or my comments, because again, nothing he did was out of the ordinary for how he treats any other character.

He saved Kagome, too. The poison maker ring any bells?

He spared Kouga.

He spared the monks who attacked him.

He REPEATEDLY saves AND spares Kohaku, OVER AND OVER and takes him in. I guess he's a shoutacon now?

No really, your arguments for this pairing are flimsy at best, and based on misinterpretation.

And again... Why does he never vow to save Kagura or free her from Naraku? Why does he do nothing for her doesn't do for every other character.

No, really. I don't care who you ship. I REALLY, REALLY don't.

You're entitled to your fantasies, we all are. Most of us just don't go spouting off our fantasies as fact on a wikipage, and then reverting edits of the ACTUAL FACTS.

You can't go around 'correcting' someone's pairing in fanfiction. There is no 'correct' pairing in fanfiction. Everyone can ship who they want to, and that's the whole point of it. Your pairing is no more correct than someone else's, regardless of if it is canon or not.

That's called being an asshat.

Your pairing isn't 'wrong', just not canon.

@ littleirishgirl

I saw you mention past behavior of this person in question. Is this normal behavior for them? I honestly find it enough to question their grasp on reality.

It seems no matter how nice a person is, what they say, what evidence they give, this person just reaches and reaches, and have they been guilty of making comments because of yaoi, and trolling, and saying Sesshoumaru would vomit over a relationship with Rin?

I don't understand Soojinyeh's reasoning or behavior at all.

BUT WE'RE NOT EDITING THE WIKI ANYMORE. I'VE STOPPED EDITING IT A WHILE AGO. And sorry, but there was nothing there about it being only "outside his followers", the manga just said he'd never been moved that way PERIOD. In order for something like THAT to happen, he has to love her-that's not exactly something that happens for someone you don't care about. He DID hurt after she died (he didn't show it immediately but that doesn't mean it wasn't there), it's obvious in the way he reacts when it's brought up-he goes insane. Sorry, but in order for something like THAT to happen, he HAS to care about them personally. You've stated before you were a Sess/Rin fan, but whatever. And yes, I DO think that his showing devotion towards her shows he loves her-and the fact that it appeared out of thin air (which is impossible for a "family relationship"...him and Rin live together and have had plenty of time to develop a father/daughter relationship) makes it more liekly a crush.

And I've NEVER SAID he doesn't love Rin-him throwing away the sword DOES show he loves Rin. Him going after Naraku for her SHOWS HE LOVES HER. I said that doesn't make in ROMANTIC, since Rumiko's shown in the past with Koahru and even before then with Akane that she HATES that kind of pairing, plus she wrote it so that Rin herself is HAPPY about Kagura having feelings for Sesshomaru which she NEVER would've done if she was meant to be a love interest-showing it's a platonic thing. How am I "pulling things out of the air"? I'm pointing out things that happened in the manga, how is that pulling things out of the air? Call me irrational or whatever, but like I said, I'VE STOPPED EDITING MONTHS AGO. As long as you keep talking to me, I can respond.

"Is this normal behavior for them?"

I can only assume it is. They just admitted to calling a Sess Rin shipper a "pedophile", but "only one", so I guess it's okay.

Yeah, her grasp on reality is definitely in question. She can't count the difference between two responses from me and eight from her.

I honestly don't even have the time or will to read the crazy, but just skimming is enough to give a sane person a headache.

"I don't understand Soojinyeh's reasoning or behavior at all. "

You're assuming there is some reasoning, and as for the behaviour? I HAVE NO IDEA?!?

Only calling one person a pedophile - ooookay. I don't even know what that is, I have no response.

"BUT WE'RE NOT EDITING THE WIKI ANYMORE. I'VE STOPPED EDITING IT A WHILE AGO."

Do you know who "we" is, in the "we're" this person is referring to? Is there a group of people like this? That sounds strange to me.

I didn't read it over, just skimmed. I couldn't deal with it all after reading this person's comments throughout this page.

@ 96.234.187.181

"BUT WE'RE NOT EDITING THE WIKI ANYMORE. I'VE STOPPED EDITING IT A WHILE AGO."

What does this mean? "We're" means "We are", "we" means more than one. So by saying "we're not" I can only take that as more than one.

To give a statement based on more than yourself, with knowledge that implies what more than one person has done or what they will do implies to me you and others have been editing the wiki. Do you have some group or something?

And if you do, why on earth would a group of people bother editing some page of thousands in a wiki, about one Manga, one pairing you THINK is canon?

Why would you do that? Wouldn't your time be better spent writing the pairing you like even though it isn't canon?

"Only calling one person a pedophile - ooookay. I don't even know what that is, I have no response."

Yeah, that is rather brain-breaking. Not to mention her calling Jinxycat a 'homeless bitch' or whatever she said before.

~Class~ this person has it.

"WE"

The royal 'We'? Multiple personalities? Friends to serve as fanpoodle army for constant internet flame wars? WHO KNOWS?!?

For my own amusement, I'm going with the 'royal We' supposition. Just like how Sesshoumaru refers to him self as て殺生丸 or この殺生丸　(de Sesshoumaru/kono Sesshoumaru, or this Sesshoumaru) in Japanese.

Like I said, that profile DIDN'T come from RT-it's YTV. On Furinkan, the profile is different, so how in the world does that prove anything?

"He repeatedly purposely saved her?"-THAT WASN'T THE ONLY THING THAT I BROUGHT UP. And I've already addressed the monks/everyone else you brought up. There's a difference between sparing someone ONCE (Koga, monks) and having some sort of RELATIONSHIP with them-plus the incidents with Tenseiga and Tokijin are much bigger deals than anything that happened with Kagome (though him saving her shows that he does come to care about Kagome). And while he does care a great deal about Kohaku, Rumiko's shown she HATES that kind of pairing (read Koharu incident), so that makes that couple unlikely-plus he's had time to develop a platonic relationship with him, which he didn't with Kagura. He didn't vow to save her because he hadn't come to terms with his feelings at that point, that was the whole point OF HER DEATH- the whole POINT was to make it tragic by not having him realize anything until it's too late. After she dies, he DOES come to terms, stop denying his feelings, and say "whether she died in vain or not is for me to decide".

And again... Why does he never vow to save Kagura or free her from Naraku? Why does he do nothing for her doesn't do for every other character.

Correcting someone on whether something's canon or not =/= "correcting a pairing". I've said OVER AND OVER AGAIN I don't care who you ship, go and ship whatever.

Good lord, the profile/character blurb is right out of the Japanese Inu Yasha companion. Why else would it be all over official sites. Go to Rumiko's World's JAPANESE SITE and LOOK. Buy the damn Japanese language companion book and LOOK.

Rin is shown to not understand romance or romantic implications of any kind. In 'Jaken falls Ill', Jineji's mother says that Rin is 'smitten' with a demon, and Rin responds that she has no idea what 'smitten' means, and then Jineji's mother says Rin is too young to understand romantic notions.

Rin is just being Rin. Rin is always happy.

Rin also smilied when she was beaten black and blue, just because Sesshoumaru asked about her face. RIN SMILES. That's what she does.

Rin refuses to see the bad in anyone, and is too young to understand 'jealousy' or anything like that like.

Rin's purity of spirit and how adorable she is, is basically what makes Sesshoumaru like her.

"I will get back, that smiling face!"

And no, that isn't the only thing you brought up, but you're only repeating yourself over and over, and it isn't making a difference. There is only so much Sess Kagura interaction in the manga (not much, actually) and I'm done repeating myself.

NOTHING HE DOES INDICATES ROMANTIC FEELINGS. EVERY SINGLE THING HE DOES IN REGARDS TO KAGURA ALSO HAS EXAMPLES WITH OTHER CHARACTERS. HE DOES NOT EVER VOW TO SAVE OR PROTECT HER. HE DOES NOT DO ANYTHING 'SPECIAL' REGARDING HER.

Two from you, but you weren't the only person who was posting. I had around 6 different messages from different people, and I responded to them. And I've already apologized for the whole "pedophile" comment like a year ago. "We" as in me and Irishgirl. She claimed I reverted her edit (if I did, I don't remember), which makes two of us that edited the wiki, which makes it a "we". Say what you want, but if I'm disrespected, I'll be disrespectful right back. "Friends to serve as fanpoodle army for constant internet flame wars"-WTF are you talking about here?

@ littleirishgirl

She made fun of homeless people? I didn't notice that. I see it now. Wow... just wow. I don't understand all the name calling on this person's part.

The links that you gave me weren't "official" sites. And Rin being a happy kid doesn't mean she doesn't have any other emotion besides happiness-she'd function like every other RT character if she's in love. You don't have to "understand" jealousy to feel it (it's just natural if you like someone in that way). Kagome is similar to Rin in terms of personality, but you see how she gets. Ukyo was a happy/smiling child as well, but over Ranma she goes crazy.

ROFL. If you're disrespectful first, you can expect to receive it back.

@ 96.234.187.181

I got the impression Jinxycat was referring to recent edits.

Honestly, I haven't seen anyone disrespect you here until you did it first.

Did you not see the post right before that where she flipped out at me for no reason? Never mind, see what you will. How DARE I say Sess/Kagura is canon and point out how? Oh no, that's a CRIME.

The history shows you just reverted Jinxy's edits recently.

I stopped editing because you watched the page like a hawk and consistently reverted my edits regarding the hell arc, and I don't have my life to waste bothering watching a tvTropes page.

Good for you on apologizing, but there are some things you just can't take back with an 'I'm sorry', and 'pedophile' is a damn harsh accusation, especially over a fandom pairing. If the person forgave you and accepted your apology, they are a bigger person than I would ever be.

Sess Rin is the most likely pairing for Sesshoumaru, just by default. It isn't canon because of where the story ends, and I think that was most likely done on purpose by Takahashi-sensei.

That doesn't stop me from loving my Sess Kag, nor should it.

I wasn't saying you were in constant flame wars, OBVIOUSLY the options presented were JOKES. I'd think the 'Royal We' would have made that CLEAR? JFC... *shakes head*

@96.234.187.181

I didn't see anyone "flip out" on you. I saw you as in this entire thread as very combative and plain rude. You started any rudeness from my perspective.

Also, from what I can see no one is blaming you for trying to say something is canon, it's you using evidence that is OPINION to support it (including your own story), and attacking people who disagree. It's you stating things that are opinion as fact. From my perspective that's how I see it.

I'm looking at the history page. Jinxy's most recent edits weren't reverted (like I told you, I stopped), and the edits above that are by passing3, Anaheyla and Stevie Will Show You. "I don't have my life to waste bothering watching a tvTropes page."- Isn't that what you JUST DID? Alright, whatever. I know people that have had their children made racial slurs at and they let it go after a year or so. And no one ever told you to stop loving Sess Kag.

Really? REALLY? Now that's just plain denial. "no one is blaming you for trying to say something is canon"-...seriously? That's what's been happening the entire time. "Using your evidence that is opinion" I'm pointing out things that happened IN THE MANGA. Which is the exact same thing EVERYONE'S doing. And what's wrong with using a fic? It's not a "story" (fiction), it's an opinion piece that discusses this topic, and others have referenced fics as well. I've only "attacked" one person (which was a RESPONSE). If by "attacking" you mean "disagreeing with", then fine. Call it whatever you want, but how is what I'm doing any different from what anyone else is doing?

Weren't offical sites? MY GOD WHAT THE F*CK QUALIFIES AS 'OFFICIAL' TO YOU? The site of the tv station where the anime airs, and the site for the magazine that runs the manga each week IS OFFICAL. You can not be this clueless... You have GOT to be trolling. There is no one who could fail comprehension so badly, in a serious way.

The Inuyasha companion book IS official. That is where it came from. There is no reason to have the SAME DAMN CHARACTER BLURB ON EVERY SINGLE SITE if it's just made up out of nowhere.

I think you're just mad that you're wrong. I think you would argue with Takahashi-sensei herself if she told you that Sess Kagura wasn't a pairing and you'd claim that she meant it to be subconsciously or something.

If it wasn't official, they would just make up their own, on an individual basis. Everything on those sites must be approved by Viz, Sunrise, and RT. That is most easily done when they come up with one official one distribute it to all the official websites.

Yeah, Rin has emotions, but they don't include anything romantic, as stated. She doesn't understand jealousy, and because she doesn't understand romance, she has NO ROMANTIC IMPLICATIONS when she says 'Kagura seems like she likes Sesshoumaru-sama'.

She is too young for that statement to mean anything romantic. If she'd said 'Can Kagura be my new mommy?' then not only would it actually give at least ONE piece of evidence that he's her father, but it would give your argument a leg to stand on.

And yeah, saying Sess Kagura is canon, when it's clearly not to most sane people or those who are objective, while not a crime, is batshit. That's just like how upset you get when people claim Sess Rin is totally canon.

Don't you get it?

You can say 'I interpret this this way', but that is totally different from editing the wiki page (no matter how long ago) to support YOUR interpretations, most of which, from what I've seen are willful misinterpretations.

You accuse Sess Rin people of wearing shipper goggles, and yet I'm starting to think you have actual BLINDERS ON regarding this canon.

If it isn't blinders then it's the biggest case of 'missing the point' I've ever seen.

@ 96.234.187.181

No, no one here is saying you can't express your OPINION, but you took it from opinion and stated it as fact. That IS the problem. If you just said "This is how *I* feel about Sess/Kagura... and why" I would be one your side, but that isn't what you've done.

You also have ignored any person who has shared anything to dispute what you have stated as fact, and then attacked them. It has nothing to do with "denial"; I have NO reason to feel one way or the other about it. I like both characters, and have no vested interest in it, so denial is not a part of my perspective.

What is wrong with you? To me it seems you attack EVERYONE who doesn't agree with you. You need to grow up.

At this point, I'm not even talking about arguments, it's about your BEHAVIOR: meaning your need to attack and state YOUR opinion as FACT. I'm going to clarify that for you since you seem to not understand what anyone says.

"The site of the tv station where the anime airs"-so now every station Inuyasha airs on is a 100% verifiable source for canon? Inuyasha airs on plenty of stations worldwide-if the staff for one of those states something is canon, that makes it canon? It doesn't-it's still just an outside source. Authors don't actually have as much control over ADAPTATIONS as you think they do. I've said it over and over again, if you had a MANGA SCAN or an interview where shitaui was used, that'd be valid. But statements from OTHER PEOPLE aren't. That's why most of the fandom doesn't consider filler or anime canon.

"She is too young for that statement to mean anything romantic."- Read Ranma 1/2, Rumiko has children showing jealousy-and Shippo had a crush, understands romance and is a child. Also, I never said that Rin's attitude proves Sess/Kagura as canon, I said it proves that Sess/Rin isn't. Also...now you kind of seem to be agreeing with me that Rin has no romantic interest in Sesshomaru by saying that "Rin's too young to understand that kind of thing"...which is it?

"While not a crime"-that's exactly how it's been treated. And I don't get "upset" when I see people claim Sess/Rin is canon, I just disagree, roll my eyes, and correct them.

And once again, when people made it clear they had a problem with me editing, I STOPPED. So I don't know why you're still bringing it up like that has anything to do with what we're doing now.

So you have a problem with it because I believe in what I'm saying? If I didn't believe it was true, why would I say it? No one who was talking to me used the words "I believe" before starting their sentences either. Everyone says what they say because they think it's right-if they were uncertain about it, they wouldn't bother talking about it. Isn't it true that what you're saying about me right now is "opinion", but you didn't always bother to use the words "I believe"?

"Ignore"? If I ignored them, I wouldn't have replied to them. So not agreeing immediately counts as ignoring? It counts as "attacking"? I've only "attacked" one person, everyone else I've just disagreed with.

And when I said you were in "denial", I wasn't talking about pairings, I was talking about how you said that "no one disrespected me". How can you look at that previous comment and...?

Once again, not agreeing =/= attacking. Theres nothing I've done that everyone I've talked to hasn't done as well, plus I haven't initiated anything.

@ 96.234.187.181

""The site of the tv station where the anime airs"-so now every station Inuyasha airs on is a 100% verifiable source for canon? "

Yes, TV stations do this, just an example off the top off my head - Doctor Who, Doctor Who is played on BBC, BBC American, and Syfy, on their sites there are character databases, profiles and such... those aren't written by the TV station, they are written by the company selling the show (the people who made it). It's there for fans, and since they are officially showing it, they can offer fans a database that comes from the producers.

Do you really not understand this? It's the same why that if you go on NBC's website and look up "Law and Order" the blurbs are official. It's like that with most TV stations and TV shows.

It's how TV runs EVERYWHERE, look up any show you like, and look for one shown on multiple stations I GUARANTEE you the info about it and the characters are the SAME in all of them. DO you know why? Because it's info put out by the people who make the show.

READ THE COMMENT.

Here is how these things work: Viz's team sits around WITH RT and writes up a blurb for the characters. They then DISTRIBUTE THAT BLURB to all the places that are licensed to air the show or run the manga.

They do this so that it is uniform, and so that it is DEFINITELY WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY about their characters. They do this so that no place that is licensed to run the material decides to print whatever they want. IE: 'Sesshoumaru is a total ass and no one likes him, and Inuyasha is a whiny little brat who allows himself to be abused by a 15yr old girl."

See how this works? They make ONE CHARACTER BLURB THAT IS APPROVED and therefore 'official' so that everyone can only run what they want them to, and say what they want them to about their characters.

No, not a single person has treated this like a 'crime'. YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR has earned you these reactions from people. Your OWN past edits and your own snarky remarks about other shippers is why people react the way they do to you.

Take some personal responsibility, and stop trying to play the victim.

Thank you for no longer editing the page in a biased way. I really do appreciate that. REALLY.

I have a problem with the fact that you 'believe what you're saying', YES, to a certain extent.

It shows that you are unable to separate YOUR opinion from provable FACTS.

That is a problem. It is a PROBLEM when I stop knowing that the unicorn I choose to believe lives in my back yard, is not real for everyone.

It is a problem when I start telling other people that my unicorn is more real than their pet fairy.

It is a bigger problem if the person owns a cat, and I tell them their cat is imaginary but my unicorn is the real thing.

It is the BIGGEST problem when people present actual evidence that my unicorn is NOT REAL, and that instead of accepting those arguments, I put my hands over my ears and say 'YOU'RE ALL WRONG AND I CAN'T HEAR YOU, AND BY THE WAY YOU'RE A BITCH!', instead of saying 'That's nice, but I like to believe in my unicorn thank you very much.'

You claim so, and yet when I look at the Korean versions of the profiles...they're different from the English ones (and neither one of them claim that she's romantically involved with Sesshomaru in any way). What, do they sit around and decide to "censor out" every other version of the profile except the Japanese because of the "western audiences" (even though Koreans aren't). If they really make "one official character blurb" then...why is it different?

The websunday page you linked to...there's no profile for Rin there, just info about the DV Ds and books.

What's wrong with making snarky remarks on a pairing? Other people do that, I've seen you do it, hell you've made snarky remarks TO ME. People bash Kagura and snark on pairings I like all the time, I don't develop some sort of grudge against them for not agreeing with me. I don't care if people make fun of a pairing, or book or series or anything like that for that matter. I'm not required to like the same things as anyone else, and I won't lie about it. How in the hell does that equal all of you jumping in on this coversation (which I was having with SOMEONE ELSE) out of nowhere? There's plenty of people that say things I don't agree with, but I don't jump in while they're trying to talk to other people. People make fun of things I like, I don't care.

"Stating opinions as facts" Like I said, call it whatever you want, but how is that any different from what YOU'RE DOING?

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THESE COMMENTS? Every single time I try to put a link in, it combines my comment with Aristaeray's... weirdness.

When you post on a discussion page, expect that you're not going to be having a private conversation. Anyone can jump in. That's the nature of it.

What is your point?

They are going to be different in every language.

What anyone should go by FIRST, is the original Japanese, as that is the language we can be sure is the creator's actual real intention.

RT isn't Korean, last I checked.

Considering I provided a translation (you have a Japanese room mate, as her to read it for you, check the translation for yourself), and that kanji cannot mean anything other than what it does it, then what exactly is your point?

The Korean version, and all other versions are not as valid or 'correct' as the original Japanese as that is the creator's own words, that's just simple logic.

You MUST understand this, right?

Also, who said that Rin was romantically involved with Sesshoumaru? I said he loves her dearly and adores her, and that love is not paternal or platonic.

I'd venture to say that it's simply a slight hint that he has possible future plans for romance.

LOOK UP THE KANJI YOURSELF

@ 96.234.187.181

"You claim so, and yet when I look at the Korean versions of the profiles...they're different from the English ones (and neither one of them claim that she's romantically involved with Sesshomaru in any way). "

It's written by a JAPANESE PERSON NOT A KOREAN. I don't know why this has no bearing or means nothing to people when it has to do with Manga.

If I wrote a story in my own language of English, based on the culture of MY country that takes place in my country in the past it would be in that context. It wouldn't matter how it was translated.

Do you KNOW ANYTHING about languages, I would think if you speak Korean and English you do. You should know languages DO NOT translate directly. And I speak Japanese, and I know the languages do not translate well in many instances.

Also, it's extremely common for a story, manga, movie, anime, etc... to be translated and presented differently due to cultural differences. I've read the manga in Japanese, I've also read some in English and there is a lot that is different.

Shouldn't we go by the canon written by the mangaka, in her own language, based on her culture, especially considering it takes place in her country?

OMG, do you have an argument for everything? I have never seen someone so deluded.

And I am not making fun of you. Not at all. If someone is making fun of you for liking your preferred pairing that's wrong, but you don't need to argue that it's canon to justify what you like. Just like it. I like all kinds of pairings in many manga and anime, some are canon some aren't, and I like them for many reasons, it's nothing that needs more justification than "I like this". Anyone that says different is being an asshole to you, and isn't worth your time.

These comments are messed up...

HERE IS THE KANJI: http : // jisho . org / words?jap=shitau&eng=&dict=edict

Take out the spaces, go to the page, and go to the 'Kanji Details'.

Just because you can doesn't mean there's no problem with you doing it. You still involved yourself in something that had nothing to do with you (seriously, looking at how it was before you jumped in, how could you not see that some sort of drama would come out of it?)

So what she isn't Japanese? If they really used "ONE CHARACTER BLURB THAT IS APPROVED and therefore 'official'"...wouldn't the pages/translations in other languages look somewhat similar as well? Especially something as important as a character's love interest.

I just checked the websunday link-THERE IS NO RIN PROFILE THERE. Only information about the DV Ds and some shit.

"due to cultural differences"-and yet, Korea's really not that strikingly different from Japan in terms of culture. Never said we shouldn't go by her language, just questioning what you're telling me it says.

If it really works the way you say it does...how come Adult Swim's profiles look so different from Furinkan's? Even whithin the same language they're not the same.

"I have never seen someone so deluded."-And yet, you accused ME of "attacking" people who don't agree when you guys have been saying that kind of shit the entire time.

Why do I have to repeat myself...? It's like you're just skimming my posts. I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CANON FOR YOU TO SHIP IT. I like plenty of pairings that I know aren't canon, and I don't exactly claim this one as "OTP" though I like it. I'm just saying that IT IS, just like if someone said Inu/Kik wasn't canon I'd say it is, even though I don't ship it.

You once again, you didn't read.

SCROLL DOWN and see that websunday links to the OTHER link for Ytv. They link to each other. Websunday uses Ytv's link for the character profiles, BECAUSE IT IS OFFICIAL.

I understand you're not saying it has to be canon for you to ship it, but it seems like you don't understand that for yourself.

"Just because you can doesn't mean there's no problem with you doing it. You still involved yourself in something that had nothing to do with you (seriously, looking at how it was before you jumped in, how could you not see that some sort of drama would come out of it?) "

I don't know if you're replying to me or the other person, but you are the one who after someone commented (as they are allowed to) put up EIGHT comments.

Need I say more.

Like you pointed out, "after someone commented", which means I didn't inititate it. ROFL at how they are "allowed to" comment, but I can't apparently can't respond. Like I already said, I RECEIVED around the same number of messages, so I replied to them.

"it seems like you don't understand that for yourself"-How so? Cause I'm saying that it is?

KOREAN = JAPANESE now?

No, sorry to burst your stereotypical bubble, but Japan and Korea don't have the same culture, nor are their written languages exactly the same.

http: // i49 . tinypic.com / 241nzf7 . jpg

Again, the profile.

http://www.ytv.co.jp/inuyasha/characters/index.html

殺生丸を慕い行動を共にしている人間の少女。瀕死の殺生丸を介抱した直後、一度は狼に殺されたが、殺生丸の天生牙によって蘇生した.

NEVER SAID THE LANGUAGES OR CULTURE WERE THE SAME. Just said that it isn't sooooooo strikingly different that they'd have to CENSOR IT like you claim they have for "western" audiences.

I see the profile. Still don't see the evidence that all TV stations' blurbs come from the mangaka and are the same. Just checked Sunrise's official website. Nothing about romance there (yes, asked roommate). Not the same profile. And yet according to you they'd all use the "official" profile that came from the RT...

Okay, but I didn't say the profile was edited for Western Audiences, I said RT purposely left the ending hanging for Western Audiences AND THOSE WHO WOULD BE OFFENDED if she implied romance between them, even future romance.

Didn't intiate it:

You're the first commenter here...

And, if someone puts up a comment, the SANE response is OBVIOUSLY to jump on them and argue with them, and continue on until you've personally insulted the person, and globally insulted homeless people everywhere. (A hell of a lot of Katrina victims thank you for your sensitivity, btw.)

When someone else adds, oh btw, profile is correct kthnx, you should immediately come up with an uninformed argument against how valid it is, despite the fact that a google.jp search will immediately yield results.

When a third person comes in and says 'wow, aren't you a bit rude, let's take a step back, shall we?' and is totally nice, you should lash out at them too.

Then imply that OMGZ NO ONE ELSE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE TALKING HERE CUZ LIEK I WAS ONLY TALKING TO ONE PERSON AND THIS IS A PRIVATE CONVERSATION, despite it being rather public, and on a discussion board where anyone can comment.

These are the ways we show how classy we are on the internet.

"Like you pointed out, "after someone commented", which means I didn't inititate it."

Didn't initiate it? YOU are the first commenter in this thread. YOU also are one of the first if not the first in the discussion it's attached to. YOUR OWN FIC, WHICH IS TOTALLY TROLLY IS LISTED AS A SOURCE FOR PROVING YOUR SHIP.

People also can make a comment, and that is not "initiating" anything. It's just making a comment in a public forum. It's YOUR choice whether to comment or not.

And, don't even start, you admit in here that you were editing to support your ship. Basied on one of the comments above I googled you - you appear to try and cause trouble or do whatever this is everywhere you go. I can't believe some of the comments you left places and reviews. I read one you left for "Jinxy_sama" (who I assume is Jinxycat) which was completely phobic, I can't understand if she is the same person how she kept such composure with you. If she is the same person, she writes the same pairing like she said - why would you attack a fellow shipper like that?

Seriously, what is wrong with you? You think this is discussion is only for you to speak in, no one can come along and say anything? This isn't the "Soojinyeh" discussion. It seems you're just trying to troll this page, either that or you're simply combative and thrive on drama. I really feel sorry for you.

BTW, if you're a troll, you fail so hard, all you're doing here is once again perpetuating what "Jinxycat" didn't want you to do - making Sess/Kagura shippers look batshit.

WOW. Just WOW.

Homophobia, calling people pedophiles, insensitivity regarding homeless people, cultural appropriation and stereotyping, wow... real winner here.

"...Just an opinion, the things you added to the story this chapter becuase of your brainstorming with Izzanami actually ruined it for me. Just my opinion. Before, it was very interesting and sensual. Now it has this cheap, dirty, bottom-dollar feel to it. I mean come on...Miroku and Inuyasha and all ofnthem together like that? Can you defile their characters or make them any more OOC? I thin Sessh being a sex addict was enough OOC-ness, but that was the whole plot point, so that doesn't count, but this?

I'm not laming you or anything, you know I love your stuff. But when you have someone who writes crap contributing to your stories, your stories will likely turn out worse, not better..."

Google tells me that Izzanami is a yaoi writer, and amazingly enough after this fic gets a yaoi writer colab, it's 'cheap' and 'bottom dollar', and it's somehow 'crap'.

Izzanami's fics, from what I can see all have a SHIT-TON of reviews, like... One has two chapters and almost 100 reviews. I somehow doubt she can possibly write 'crap'.

"I didn't say the profile was edited for Western Audiences"-that's what you seemed to be implying-that the Korean and English versions of the PROFILE said nothing about a romance because they were edited-BTW, why would Koreans be "offended" by that?

ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS?? LOOK AT THE GODDAMN THREAD. THE FIRST PERSON TO POST IN THE THREAD IS "ORIHIME". Exactly what the fuck are you looking at?

Way to twist shit around. I responded to her in a RESPECTFUL manner, and she flipped out, how is that "jumping on someone"? "Globally insulted" ROFL at that, Jinxy is a Katrina victim now? Plus I don't think anyone who lives in the same city I do would be happy about it being referred to as a "gutter", and yet you didn't say jack shit about that because I DARED to say Sess/Kagura was canon.

About the profile: I just checked different sites. You claim it's "official" and would be used everywhere, but it isn't.

Are you serious? I "lashed out" how? By disagreeing? I'm reading my first comment to her now, how in the living fuck is that disrespectful? Oh yeah, I'm the one who said Sess/Kagura was canon, so obviously EVERYTHING I do is disrespectful now. Call it what you want, if you jump in you involve yourself (even though at first I wasn't disrespectful to anyone that jumped in). Way to comment on my "class" when you're sitting here doing the exact same thing.

DO YOU GUYS FUCKING HAVE EYES? HOW IN THE FUCK DOES THAT LOOK LIKE ME TO YOU? If you go up and start talking to someone who wasn't talking to you, THAT IS INITIATION, whether positive or negative. I responded respectfully and I was flipped out at because I DARED to say Sess/Kagura was canon.

And what's wrong with citing your fic? It's not a story, it's an opinion piece that discusses the same topic, and you two have cited fics as well.

Nice job googling me. What's this you said about you only caring about the wiki? I've already stopped editing, you admitted it, and you're still here? And...sorry, but I just googled myself and how in the fuck would you find something that specific off of google? I don't see it.

"fellow shipper"? ROFL Are you serious? Shippers are some sort of...political party now? Some sort of club? You should like someone just because they like something you do? I don't take pairings THAT seriously.

Read the damn review. WHERE IN THE LIVING FUCK DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT YAOI? It says Mir/Inu, WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH IT IS YAOI? So...yaoi is the ONLY defining characteristic of her writing now? You do know I've written yuri, right? Listen, it's been a long time, and I don't even remember anything about her writing or whatever. But question: you claim google came up with all these results...and yet, I just googled myself and I've gotten nothing of the sort...and the fics that I've seen you two link to...are you two telling the truth here?

@ 96.234.187.181

Are you insane? This is a DISCUSSION THREAD, which means ANYONE can discuss here... ANYONE. Any person can come in here now and reply to anyone else who said anything in it. ANYONE can throw in their two cents.

THIS IS NOT YOUR THREAD! You do not own it, and someone stating an opinion in a discussion is not initiating the kind of thing you seem to think it is - an attack, or that they had no right, did something wrong, or shouldn't have.

DO you even understand how this site works?

I have tried to be nice to you, but my patience is wearing thin. Do you just like to argue? It seems that way. I started out respectful to you as did everyone else here who replied to you, but you persist in wanting to argue, and from what I've now seen of you, I'm not surprised.

About sites you looked up - do you speak Japanese? From what I saw in a comments in FF.net you don't. How can you even say what says one thing or not.

And please say who you're speaking to, I can't tell if you're responding to me or the other person.

You'll continue to argue the profile, and I'll continue to tell you to buy a Japanese language Inu Yasha companion guide. If it's up on multiple sites that are licensed to run the canon material, it's official.

Considering you've made it clear you can't tell the difference between fansites and official sites anyway...

Of course not every single site will have character profiles or blurbs. The ones that do use that one.

Please link me to more character profiles for Rin, in Japanese, on official sites.

Never mind the homophobia, you openly call another writer's work 'crap'. That's just rude. It's not concrit, it's just RUDE and UNCALLED FOR.

THE INTERNET IS NOT REAL LIFE, and ANYONE CAN COMMENT HERE, without it being 'initiation', this IS A DISCUSSION PAGE AFTER ALL.

Honestly, given your history, I'm not sure why I'm bothering with you. You aren't the type of person I choose to waste my efforts on.

And you wonder at the hostile reactions you receive from others? The way you conduct yourself is abominable and shameful.

Jinxy and Sess Kagura brings up her fanfic.net profile, I also saw that you had one and you ship the same pairing. It wasn't a far stretch to think you'd MOST LIKELY reviewed her, and that review is on her second story down, and from there her Live Journal, and from there Izzanami's and so on and so forth.

Once I got to Izzanami's livejournal and her profile, it was all down hill from there.

BTW- You're from Baltimore, you're attempting a singing career, your twitter is full of 'I LOVE HER BUT SHE DIDN'T LOVE ME BACK' type stuff.

@ 96.234.187.181

"Read the damn review. WHERE IN THE LIVING FUCK DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT YAOI? It says Mir/Inu, WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH IT IS YAOI?"

Why would you have a problem with Inu/Mir? That seems to be your problem, in that you have problems with several pairings, who are you to judge. I read the review, I think is in question, you said it had a bad feell or something to that effect, and said something about getting help from some other person that from my perspective you seem to have an issue with, and that person when I searched was a yaoi writer.

And doing a search of "Jinxycat and Inu Yasha" and "Sesshomaru/Kagura" came up with "Jinxy-sama", her second story down on her ff.net profile had your phobic review. From what I read from a few other reviews you seem to start arguments with fellow fanifccers often.

Learn to google search. It's not that hard, it appears from comments, the other girl here found you easily too.

Are you really just "anyone"?

HOW IN THE FUCK DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU JUMP IN THE MIDDLE OF SOMETHING "because you can" THAT DOES COUNT AS INITIATING? And no, you weren't completely respectful, don't fucking play stupid. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE PHYSICAL ABILITY TO DO SO DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD AND EVERYONE WILL BE FINE WITH IT.

"I have tried to be nice to you" ARE YOU SERIOUS? ROFL. Your idea of being "nice" is calling someone delusional?

No, I don't speak Japanse but like I said one of my roommates does. And just how the hell did you "come across" my "comments" on ff.net anyway? It doesn't show up on google.

Can you count? If your post came first, my first post is directed to that one. "but you persist in wanting to argue"-ROFL, I see you doing the exact same thing. you're talking to me because you want a response, aren't you?

@ littleirishgirl

I looked too, it wasn't that hard. You and I can't be the only ones so incredibly intelligent enough we have secret google magic????

What is wrong with this person, now they sound paranoid.

Am I really just anyone?

No, I'm the queen of England.

WTF DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?!?

@ 96.234.187.181 "Are you really just "anyone"? "

What does that mean? I'm a person who came here, saw this, commented, then saw an EIGHT comment essay.

Do you understand there is no "initiating", people say what they want here, and even if one comment was "initiated" by another member, WHAT IS YOUR POINT? WHAT IS YOUR DAMN POINT?

What is WRONG with you? You are either really bad at trolling, or you need therapy.

@Aristarae

I guess link-hoping is interwebs ~magic~ now? This is hard?

Once you get past the first 3 pages of big sites like myspace and twitter and facebook, that's where the real gold is. Doesn't EVERYONE know that?

I JUST CHECKED DIFFERENT WEBSITES. THEY DON'T ALL SAY THE SAME THING LIKE YOU CLAIMED. I don't have them up now, how about YOU link to the pages that you claim use the same profile?

"RUDE and UNCALLED FOR"- wow, I'm "rude and uncalled for", that stings./sarcasm

So you're some sort of e-judge now? You make the rules and decide what counts as "initiation"?

"You aren't the type of person I choose to waste my efforts on"- You claim and yet you did. For hours. I don't know...why ARE you bothering with me?

@ littleirishgirl

I guess I have a talent, I thought I was just good at narrowing down searches through logic. Do you think we can patent this "magic link hopping". I could give you my e-mail or something (off here of course) and we could open a business?

I don't want to be mean to this person, but I really don't understand why they are so angry, paranoid, and attacks people constantly. I actually feel bad for her. I tried to be nice, I tried for a while, I still am.

October 13, 2009, she was arguing on moonlightflower.com, a Sesshoumaru and Rin 'shrine' with Tomoeish as moderator.

http://www.moonlight-flower.com/?p=12

HOLY SHIT. This girl IS a troll!

How about you get the fuck over it and realize that it isn't MAJIC to come up with Jinxy + Sess Kagura = fanfic.net = her fics and my search of her reviews = your review = your ff.net page

Then her reviews = Izzanami in google = her ffnet profile = her journal on livejournal and profile = entries about you.

@Aristarae

I dunno, I'm not just ~anyone~. I can't go associating with the common people, after all. ;)

You're the same Aristarae from ED? (Googled you too, just for good measure). I have an ED account under a different name, I'll catch you on the forums there.

@ 96.234.187.181

"I JUST CHECKED DIFFERENT WEBSITES. THEY DON'T ALL SAY THE SAME THING LIKE YOU CLAIMED. I don't have them up now, how about YOU link to the pages that you claim use the same profile? "

I think people already linked you. I also asked you if you could speak Japanese. Why don't you put some links up. I have seen at least two or three other people link sites in here, but none from you.

OMFG, please get off the "initiation". I will say it again, THIS PAGE IS NOT CALLED SOOJINYEH, SO YOU CAN'T CALL 'INITIATION' WHEN SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING. All it is is a person putting in THEIR thoughts in an OPEN DISCUSSION.

I'll entertain your mindset for a moment, even if it was "initiation" - I will ask you ONCE MORE what would it matter?

If I commented and agreed with you 100% would you be constantly on "initiating"? I doubt it. What does it matter?

Wait...so you actually went as far as to look through REVIEW PAGES? ROFL, all this for little old me.

My point is if you start shit, guess what? PEOPLE CAN RESPOND ALL THEY LIKE. How in the fuck does that escape you? And I just went to page 30 or so, fanfic comments aren't popping up.

(facepalm) So if you don't like a pairing that just happened to be yaoi, YOU MUST BE HOMOPHOBIC. The same way that if you dislike Inu/Kag, YOU MUST BE HETEROPHOBIC OMG. If you dislike a black person, IT MUST BE RACISM (wait...you are) Makes sense.

Uh, links plz?

I've already linked the profile twice, and linked pages that link back to the profile.

LOL, you just look silly now.

CNTRL-F is a magical thing. It makes looking through reviews take only a few short minutes.

@ littleirishgirl

"October 13, 2009, she was arguing on moonlightflower.com, a Sesshoumaru and Rin 'shrine' with Tomoeish as moderator.

http://www.moonlight-flower.com/?p=12

HOLY SHIT. This girl IS a troll!"

I didn't find that in my search, although I didn't look too hard. Just reading that - what is wrong with her? To me it looks like she enjoys arguing with people over fanfiction pairings CONSTANTLY. Does she get paid for this? Isn't Moonlight Flower a Sess/Rin site?

I found places Soojinyeh said she hated that pairing, she'd have no reason to be there, but for trolling. I need to finish reading it all, but skimming it, I'm torn between feeling bad for her and wanting to "tsk tsk" for trolling pairings. I had no idea she had this history, if I did, I wouldn't have commented here, but I did so I guess I'm already in for a penny, might as well go in for the pound.

@ 96.234.187.181 "Wait...so you actually went as far as to look through REVIEW PAGES? ROFL, all this for little old me. "

Second story down and like the other person said "CTRL-F". It took under three minutes to find you there.

Are you under the impression "troll" is an insult or something? It isn't. If leaving one message makes me a troll, then fuck yeah, I'M A TROLL. And what?

People only gave me two links as far as profiles, checked both of them. Already said I don't speak Japanese, but it's not hard to get it translated. What the fuck do you want links for anyway? To prove what? If everything's as you claim, you should've already seen that shit.

OMFG, please get off the "initiation"- No I won't.

I get the fucking picture, IT WAS JUST GOOGLE. Why are you soooo fucking defensive over that shit?

Oh look... Page 8 of a google search links to another anti-sess/rin fic.

http://www.toplist.mediaminer.org/fanfic/view_st.php/164213

No srsly, WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM and why can't you let people ship what they want in peace?

Writing a fic to support your own pairing is one thing, but tearing down other pairings IS JUST CHILDISH AND IMMATURE.

@ littleirishgirl

That's me, although I've barely used my account there. Sure, I'd be happy to catch you elsewhere. You meet people that are cool in the oddest circumstances at times.

@96.234.187.181

You were the one that asked for links. You don't want to put them up, then don't. Let other people who read all this be the judges after they see you asking, then making links out to be no big deal when you're asked in return.

ROFL...

No, you're a troll because you actively went to a Sess Rin site and chose to bitch and moan to people you knew were Sess Rin people.

You're a troll not because of one comment, but because of anti-pairing fics like the one I linked on mediaminer.

You're a troll because you ask for links that were already volunteered but can't provide your own.

You're a troll because you go after Big Name Fangirls on their own sites. Tomoeish is like FAMOUS in Inufandom.

JFC.

It's not ONE COMMENT, it's a history of batshit behavior and anti-pairing rhetoric that makes you look sad and obsessed.

Write your little Sess Kagura and leave other people alone.

@ littleirishgirl

I just found a link where she went after "ravyn_skye" who has a profile on ff.net. I've heard of her and have read some of her stories (seems to be known for Sess/Rin), she went after Jinxy-sama (who looks to be known in her pairing), and Izzanami, and Tomoeish. They are all BNF, maybe she hates BNF, I don't know. I found some trolly things with Izzanami and Ravyn_skye, so maybe there is a history, but I can't find one really.

I asked before, but after a search, seriously, what is wrong with her?

She trolls, whines, says people "initiated". What is that "initiating" supposed to mean? Am I missing something?

CTRL-F doesn't magically give you my specific review. Plus no matter what you did, you were still going around looking for me. Did you go through the reviews for the first story or some shit? If you didn't find me there, were you gonna keep searching until you did? Really?

"I found places Soojinyeh said she hated that pairing, she'd have no reason to be there"-ROFL. Same thing you're doing-seeing as how you said you didn't like me, you'd have no reason to continuously search for me? It's a Sess/Rin site, I went there once through a link and looked at it. IT'S A PUBLIC SITE. JUST LIKE YOU KEEP SAYING. PEOPLE CAN COME THERE AND POST IF THEY WANT.

"why can't you let people ship what they want in peace?"- Why can't you let people dislike what they want in peace? Also, stating your opinion IN YOUR OWN fic =/= not letting people ship, that would be if I went on every Sess/Rins story and said OMG YOU CAN'T WRITE THIS...and you DO know that was in RESPONSE to someone else's fic, right? Plus one of the fics that was linked had bashing in it, and you didn't seem to have a response to it.

"You were the one that asked for links"-exactly, so why the fuck would I need to link to anything when I ASKED FOR links? I'm not the one with something to prove, i'm the one ASKING FOR PROOF. So why would I need to link to shit?

Fine, if it makes you happy, I'M A DAMN TROLL. "Go after"?? Are you serious? All the while you're doing THE EXACT SAME SHIT you're complaining about with what you STILL looking me up and shit for HOURS?

ROFL at the whole "BNF" and "being famous in Inufandom" thing. You take fanfic shit way too seriously. "BNF"? In FANFICTION? Who the fuck came up with that title? Like being known IN FANDOM gives you some sort of "speshul status" now?

"Ravyn_Skye"

Isn't that the "consensual" lolicon girl? She's kinda creepy... I've read her other stuff and it's okay, but her lolicon isn't my thing. YMMV.

Yeah, it just looks like she tries to go after BN Fs.

Izzanami's journal and her other journal "lulzyfandom7"... DUUUUUDE go check the archives on THAT batshit.

I am getting the feeling that you and I unwittingly stumbled upon some kind of long standing wanky internet drama.

Honestly though, reading this insanity from all sides is rather GOLD.

I've read Ravyn_skye before, I don't think she's "creepy" per se, but I understand how some readers might not like the bit of lolicon she writes. I like it though, it doesn't bother me, I think she handles the relationship with a young bride well, but that would be a whole different page altogether.

Where is this journal? Is it a blog or a facebook, an lj? I'm going to look it up.

I have the same feeling, after reading the links and comments, I have the feeling there are deeper issues, and that Soojinyeh is a fucking troll. (I'm finally being honest tonight and not trying to be completely nice). WTF is this GOLD?

OF COURSE IT DOESN'T GIVE ME YOUR SPECIFIC REVIEW.

It took almost 20 clicks to find it, big deal. It's still less than five minutes of my time. (Hit Cntrl-F, then type 'soojinyeh' in the search bar, then hit find. If you go through the review pages, you'll either know to automatically skip a page, or you'll jump to your review/highlight your name.)

You can dislike anything you want, but publicly bashing things is just SAD and OBSESSED. You sound like a three year old.

Here's an idea: DON'T READ SESSRIN or go to sites for the pairing. IGNORE WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE.

Yeah, um... Saying it in your own fic, is different than writing AN ENTIRE FIC based on it, and/or then using that fic as some kind of "evidence" for the pairing in a public setting.

I'd say that anyone who writes entire 6 chapter long fics, watches a wiki, goes to sites for a pairing they don't like to argue, and actively trolls the hell out of popular writers that write other pairings TAKES IT VERY SERIOUSLY.

The internets: SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS.

"and that Soojinyeh is a fucking troll"-Fucking straight I am, does it make you happy? Seriously, what do you care so much? Does it really bother you THAT MUCH to hear someone talk about a PAIRING you like? Fucking cry me a river.

@ 96.234.187.181

"CTRL-F doesn't magically give you my specific review."

No, but it does give anything with "soojinyeh", and it will start to turn red and make a bump noise once you hit enough letters that it's not possible, and "sooj" (not even) is enough to know a page doesn't have your name. On the page it did come up, I typed two more letters for good measure, and "Sooji" ONLY went to you.

DO you even understand how to use a computer?

This isn't something I should have to explain. I feel like I'm talking to a 12 year old newfag.

@Aristarae

http://lulzyfandom7.livejournal.com it's in Izzanami's main journal's profile.

READ IT FOR THE LULZ.

Well, at least she doesn't have Sesshoumaru raping kiddie!Rin, but it still isn't my thing. Unlike some other people though, I IGNORE WHAT I DON'T LIKE instead of getting my internet panties in a bunch and flailing all over the interwebs.

@ 96.234.187.181 ""and that Soojinyeh is a fucking troll"-Fucking straight I am, does it make you happy? Seriously, what do you care so much? Does it really bother you THAT MUCH to hear someone talk about a PAIRING you like? Fucking cry me a river. "

You may be a "troll" but you are a troll by default... as in you are an unwitting troll. If you were REALLY a troll, you wouldn't be arguing about this.

Pulling the old "I'm a troll" after flailing and being repeatedly pwned is NOT a troll (or not a GOOD troll). You are worse than a 12 year old on /b/ with a timestamp who says "everyone on /b/ lives in their moms basement and hasn't had sex" or posts tri-force threads, really you are.

If you think you are a troll, I feel bad for you, really I do. I know 10 year olds that could do it better.

"Does it really bother you THAT MUCH to hear someone talk about a PAIRING you like? Fucking cry me a river. "

No, it doesn't 'bother' me, in fact, I've rather been quite amused at your insanity.

It's not me who looks like they are sad, obsessed, batshit, and deranged... OVER WHICH CARTOON IS FUCKING THE OTHER CARTOON.

No really, carry on... Again, your class is unmatched, and your behavior impeccable.

No one will ever see this conversation and conclude you're a special little insane snowflake. NEVER.

"It took almost 20 clicks to find it"-and you call be "sad" and "obsessed".

"but publicly bashing things is just SAD and OBSESSED"-huh...funny, since I read that kind of shit all the time, and the fic I wrote was a RESPONSE.

I DON'T READ SESSRIN SHERLOCK. I'VE ONLY BEEN TO TWO SITES OUT OF CURIOSITY. NOT READING IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TALKING ABOUT IT. I CAN DISLIKE WHAT I WANT AND I DON'T HAVE TO KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT. BAAAAWWWW, someone made fun of your favorite pairing. So what.

That's funny. I could've sworn I was RESPONDING to an ENTIRE FIC, and that YOU have also brought up fics as "evidence" in a public setting. It was 6 chapters long but as far as length goes, it WASN'T MUCH LONGER THAN THE FIC IT WAS RESPONDING TO.

"goes to sites for a pairing they don't like to argue"-kind of how you're looking up information on a person you don't like?

"The internets: SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS"- Kind of like how you're taking it right now by doing the EXACT SAME THING you've whined about me doing?

""It took almost 20 clicks to find it"-and you call be "sad" and "obsessed". "

Yeah, I went through the first fic listed first. IT TOOK LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES AND ALL BUT THE 6TH PAGE OF THE REVIEWS TO HER SECOND FIC DOWN did not have your name.

So I was able to skip them immediately and move on.

And yeah. The effort you've put into making yourself look completely cray-cray to anyone who can google past the first three pages is rather a bit more than my five minute search.

Wait, MY PAIRING?

I guess your reading comprehension and/or short term memory skills are such that you don't remember that I've said I'm a Sess Kag'er FAR more than a Sess Rin person.

@96.234.187.181

""It took almost 20 clicks to find it"-and you call be "sad" and "obsessed"."

Takes 20 clicks if you don't know how to use a computer. There are seven pages of reviews... type in "soojinyeh" - red if the name isn't there, and if it isn't go to the next, yours was on two I think, that would be four clicks, and all of about 3 minutes, which it seriously took.

GOD YOU FAIL. You can't defend your flailing in here even after people just commented like they're supposed to, and even after you start to be batshit you get worse, then claim "trolling", and finally the old "you spent five minutes doing something argument" (which actually you suck at since you have no idea how easy it is to find a review and think it takes work.

And this coming from a person that WROTE EIGHT COMMENTS WITH NO REPLIES. Tell me how long that took you.

"I IGNORE WHAT I DON'T LIKE"-kind of like how you've been doing by looking me up even while BAWWW Wing about how I'm "trolling" your pairing? "If you think you are a troll"-DO YOU NOT FUCKING UNDERSTAND SARCASM? It doesn't bother you and yet you've been sitting here bitching and moaning the whole time, LOOKING ME UP and then crying about how I'm so "RUDE AND IMMATURE".

"OVER WHICH CARTOON IS FUCKING THE OTHER CARTOON."- WHICH IS THE EXACT SAME SHIT YOU'RE SITTING HERE WHINING OVER.

@ 96.234.187.181

""I IGNORE WHAT I DON'T LIKE"-kind of like how you've been doing by looking me up even while BAWWW Wing about how I'm "trolling" your pairing?"

Whose pairing? no one here except Jinxycat said what their preferred pairing was. What are talking about. Paranoid much.

Sess/Koga is my preferred pairing, for the record, so what are you even getting at. As far as I saw the other person in here didn't say hat their OTP was.

Whining over - EIGHT COMMENTS IN A ROW.

Um, no.

I'm asking you to keep your OPINIONS off the wiki that is supposed to be FACTUAL.

I'm not writing anti-sesskagura fics, going to sesskagura websites and bitching, or any of that other crap.

I took the time to explain to you that they were not canon, because it obviously was affecting your wiki editing.

IDGAF what you do elsewhere, because you only look like an idiot, but putting your batshit all over a wiki and reverting other people's good edits is unfair to the ENTIRE FANDOM and anyone who would look up Inu Yasha here on tvTropes.

This isn't your soapbox, it's a public wiki that you were abusing your right to edit freely, at the same time trying to oppress other fan's voices.

That's a DICK MOVE.

Doesn't matter which one you like better, you STILL FUCKING SHIP IT. "IT TOOK LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES"-YOU STILL LOOKED UP SOMEONE YOU DISLIKED, WHILE BITCHING ABOUT ME DOING IT.

"Takes 20 clicks if you don't know how to use a computer"-you're talking about her there, not me. "then claim "trolling", -SARCASM. LOOK IT UP.

"EIGHT COMMENTS WITH NO REPLIES"-what does that even matter?

@ 96.234.187.181

Now you're claiming sarcasm - it appears you ALWAYS have an excuse.

Looking up batshit people is pretty normal on the internet. Both me and the other person did independently. That should tell you something.

Trolls are used to being looked up. You did admit to being one (and a bad one), so what do you expect?

"Whose pairing?" I was responding to littleirishgirl, who said she ships Sess Kag and Sess Rin, are you fucking stupid? "EIGHT COMMENTS IN A ROW."-I RECEIVED EIGHT MESSAGES, YOU IDIOT-I RESPONDED TO THEM. If I hadn't received that many I wouldn't have had to RESPOND.

I'VE ALREADY STOPPED EDITING, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK ASS SKULL. Just a while ago you're all "thanks for stopping" now you're back to THIS again? And you call ME insane.

"I'm not writing anti-sesskagura fics, going to sesskagura websites and bitching, or any of that other crap." -Here's the thing-IF YOU DID, I WOULDN'T CARE. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT AND YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO LIKE THE SAME SHIT I DO OR LIE ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS. PEOPLE CAN DISLIKE WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT.

God, are you serious? Like I've already said for the fucking millionth time in a row-I STOPPED. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT? ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND?

I still fucking 'ship it?

I ship half the cast all over the place. I've shipped Sess/Mir, I've shipped Inu/Shiori, I've shipped Kagura/Kohaku, I shipped Kikyou/Shippou, and I've shipped Mrs. Higurashi/Kouga.

Rin gets shipped with Sess, Shiori, Kagome, Inuyasha, Kohaku, Miroku, and Jinenji in my world.

What's your POINT?

You act like a batshit crazy troll, so of course I looked you up. I need to know what I'm dealing with.

You have SO not disappointed either. Each comment is more incoherent and desperate than the last.

Yes, I get that you stopped, but the only reason I stuck my nose in when Jinxycat/sama replied was because I remembered how you'd reverted perfectly good edits before.

WE GET THAT YOU STOPPED. WE GET IT. WE DO. I PROMISE.

"claiming" sarcasm? CAN YOU NOT READ? ARE YOU SOCIALLY INEPT? How in the fuck does "fine i'm a troll, happy?" NOT sound like sarcasm?

WHEN THE HELL DID I SAY THAT YOU DIDN'T SHIP ANYTHING ELSE? I said no matter how much or how little you ship it, if you do, you're a shipper, which makes your "i'm not a Sess/Rin shipper because I like Sess Kag better" argument bullshit. I sound desperate? That's rich, how? Because of the CAPS?

If you got that I stopped, then PLEASE ACT LIKE IT.

@ 96.234.187.181

""EIGHT COMMENTS WITH NO REPLIES"-what does that even matter?"

Ok, I'll explain it since you seem to have no comprehension: You basically tried to say something about me looking you up, and spending time doing it. I replied you were the one who wrote 8 comments that turned into an essay, expressing you spent WAY MOAR TIEM.

Do you get it? Do you understand replies are from what you said?

You don't seem to get common, easy to understand, internet replies, etiquette, and such. Are you having issues. Are you REALLY this stupid, or do you really not understand this.

I know you said you were a troll, but some on, no one is this speshul, and you are the one all pissed, not me.

@Aristarae

I swear, I wanna bust out with a "U MAD?"'

""fine i'm a troll, happy?" NOT sound like sarcasm? "

Actually, it sounds more like a psychotic break, given the context.

• shakes head* Speshul little cuppy-cake, this one is.

@ littleirishgirl

What else is there to say at this point?

Oh wait - she's trolling us, I forgot. She's a sheshul snowflake troll that needs a cuppy-cake. That's all I can come up with, this person honestly confuses me.

"internet replies, etiquette" ARE YOU SERIOUS? "internet etiquette"?? Seriously? Just the thought of shit like that makes me LMAO. You actually consider shit like "internet etiquette"?

And like I said before, eight comments IN RESPONSE TO MESSAGES I GOT. I didn't spend much more time than the people who I was RESPONDING TO initially did, and no matter how much "time" it took, you still went to fucking LOOK UP someone you claim to "dislike". Google them and shit...what the fuck?

"sheshul snowflake troll that needs a cuppy-cake" ROFL..was that supposed to be ~edgy~ or something?

"I know you said you were a troll"-You still can't grasp sarcasm, and I'm the one who's "speshul".

@ littleirishgirl

Now she's claiming Sarcasm, I saw that earlier in this "discussion". It's another argument or defense mechanism she reverts to.

I'm wondering now if she's having a psychotic episode since she hasn't replied. What in the world is WRONG with this person? Seriously, they could be used for a project or something for a psyche student.

"claiming Sarcasm"- Are you that stupid? Do you seriously not see it? What part of "fine, i'm a troll, happy?" sounds sincere to you? How in the fuck is that NOT sarcasm? What is wrong with you?

It's "insensitive" of me to say someone is homeless, and yet it's completely okay for you to make fun of people with mental illnesses. Makes sense.

@Aristarae

Well, it's almost 9pm here (god I hate travel, it fucks up my time zones so bad), and I have to make dinner and take the train in to work tomorrow, so I'm going to head off.

I'll catch you on ED, and leave a comment on your page.

Hugs girl!

@ 96.234.187.181

""internet replies, etiquette" ARE YOU SERIOUS? "internet etiquette"?? Seriously? "

DOYOU UNDERSTAND WHAT A "COMMA" IS... YOU KNOW THAT LITTLE THING THAT ISN'T A PERIOD BETWEEN SEPARATE THOUGHTS?

Y Ou're combing "Internet replies" and "etiquette" - TWO SPERATE THOUGHTS - together. How in the fucking world does that make sense at all? It proves once more, that your levels of comprehension FAIL.

I went to look up a person who I didn't dislike or like, but seemed totally BATSHIT. I wanted to know exactly what I was dealing with in talking to you.

OH, the old sarcasm argument you use all the time in here.

@ littleirishgirl

It's late here too, actually early, near 5 am.

This is pointless, and think girl is just - I don't know what she is. I'll catch you on ED for now and give you my e-mail.

Hugs - at least I made a new friend from this craziness.

"Y Ou're combing" can YOU take your damn fingers off the fucking spacebar and shift key and make sure your posts are perfect before you start getting nitpicky? You know damn fucking well when you say "internet replies, etiquette", it's not unreasonable to assume you also meant "internet etiquette" when you say "etiquette".

"seemed totally BATSHIT." -How many times are you gonna use batshit? Sarcasm "argument"? Can you not read? How in the fuck is that NOT sarcasm?

"This is pointless"-and yet, you've been sitting here the ENTIRE fucking time engaging in it. "think girl is just - I don't know what she is" She is obviously someone that means enough for you to go look her up and shit. Thanks for the ~love~. Nice job flouncing.

Edit: Sunrise site. Not the same, nothing about romance. http://www.sunrise-inc.co.jp/yasya/ And yet according to you, it would've held the exact same "official" profile that came from the creator...doens't look like it. Oh...before you throw around "Don't Like Don't Read", try taking your own advice and just don't read anti-fics you know you're not gonna like instead of trying to censor others.

Alright that's it, can you guys stop? It's gone on for too long. Soojinyeh was wrong for the homeless comment, but you guys were disrespectful out of nowhere when she wasn't talking to you, and if I didn't know better, from looking and the links I'd say you WERE Izzanami and Ravyn Skye and you came here to troll her after hearing about it from Jinx. You actually came all the way here and tracked her because she said something about a PAIRING? Get a life.

Can someone get rid of the link to this on the main page? Shit, I don't wanna hear this.

Edit: I don't ship anything, but the claim you made about TV stations getting their blurbs/profiles from the author was absurd. I have family that work in broadcasting, and that's not how it works, the author has nothing to do with the profiles.

I'll get rid of it. Fuck.

What?

I heard from someone my name got tossed into this het writer ship war (I didn't even have a name here until now). Excuse me "bbbbbbbbb" Um, yeah. If I felt like "trolling" Soojinyeh, I'd do it in my own name. I namefag like that.

I don't know what the hell went on here (I'm not reading all that crap), I only heard from Jinxy that she was commenting back and forth with Soojinyeh about Sessh/Kagura (and stopped bothering about a week ago). I don't care about the pairing wars of the het writers, but from the beginning of the discussion it seems Jinxy was doing fine on her own (and decided to stop with this crap), she didn't need my help.

I'm going to go back to writing and reading my incestuous yaoi pairing with bondage: Sessh/Inu, although if people keep putting my name in this crap, I'm sure I could actually troll, and believe me, it would be obvious I was.

I'm not gonna ask who 67.241.178.106 is, or how you knew to show up...but is there any way we could lock this? God, no more posts PLEASE.

Looking at the history page. 67.241.178.106 is Jinxycat. LOL at the whole appointing yourself a BNF thing...and even more at thinking that's something to be proud of.

STOP POSTING.

Oh boy. So I've actually taken the time to read the entire discussion above and the archived discussion and I have to say that actually, soojinyeh has a point. I'm a Sess/Kag shipper, and the thing is when the writers I read feel threatened by someone...it's never Rin. It's always Kagura. Every time a writer wants to pair Sesshomaru with someone, whether it's Sango or an OC...the person that gets bashed is Kagura, she's the one they feel threatened by. And you can't say that it's because she's a kid-look how much Shippo gets bashed by those same people.

Sure he's saved Kagome and others before (I love the Ship Tease for my pairing), but you can't deny that those instances didn't carry the significance that the incident with the fighting Tenseiga, and chapter 374, and Tokijin did. Rumiko Takahashi makes sure make a much bigger deal out of it, it was incredibly heavily dramatized, showing that she herself takes it much more seriously. You've gotta recognize that whereas him showing kindness to his brother and whatnot was obviously a RESULT OF his character development and being changed, Kagura had a direct hand in CHANGING him and CAUSING character development (Tenseiga is definite proof), just like Rin did. I don't really think you can deny that his relationship with Kagura is different from his relationship with any of them. (edit: also...every time he's saved Kagome, he usually just happens to be there. He didn't go out of his way and forego a chance to kill Naraku like he did with Kagura, and he's also shown at times complete disregard for her life, like that time in the underworld when Naraku tells him about the miasma that will kill everyone else and Sesshomaru doesn't care).

And then there's Rin's behavior towards it...she's supportive, to me it looks like a kid trying to play matchmaker for their parents...doesn't really act like a rival or anything, that's definitely not how Kagome and Kikyo react towards each other.

As far as Kagura's side in things, well she never actually says out loud that she loves him, but look at her actions. Well okay, wanting to see someone isn't as big of a deal as risking your life or saving someone's life...but the whole "chasing someone" thing is usually indicative of a crush, unless otherwise stated (revenge or something). Or maybe she just wants to hang out with him...but like soojinyeh stated, when it comes out of nowhere like that, that's not exactly a solid friendship.

As far as Sesshomaru's initial reaction to her, well it only makes sense. H'd just met her, this is Sesshomaru after all-he's emotionally detached, he's the "tough guy". That's why when he first met Rin, he wasn't gonna save her until after Tenseiga pulsed and told him to do so (he was gonna leave her at first) and even when Naraku first makes Kagura kidnap her he was reluctant about saving her, and he didn't actually start saving her like that until after she'd been following him for quite a while and he had time to get attached to her. Because it's Sesshomaru-he needs time to get warmed up to people, that's just how he is. If he got attached to her at first glance it wouldn't make sense. And after a while, he does start gradually warming up to her, starting out by him apporaching her for info instead of the other way around, and then saving her (albeit reluctantly), lying for her and then he shows more and more devotion.

They don't end up together, but they don't have to, plenty of canon couples don't. Like my friend says, it's not canon in the sense that they were "making out and getting married", but it's canon in the sense that "they definitely had feelings for each other".

In short, I can definitely see why soojinyeh thinks they belong here. I agree...however we can't, since it tends to piss people off. I think this discussion is enough.

Littleirishgirl, you say you're a Sess Kag shipper too right? Well think back to the fics you read. When the people we read bash someone, it's not Rin, it's Kagura. And you can't really say it's because she's a kid since writers tend to bash Shippo all the time-when it comes to shipping, they've shown that they really don't care whether the person is a kid. I think there's a reason Kagura's the one everyone feels threatened by-if there was nothing there to feel threatened over, this kind of bashing wouldn't be happening.

@iloveoprah-this is my last and only post, no need to worry.

Edit: As far as translations go, I've read several scanlations done by Japanese-speaking fans and they all seem to agree that there's really nothing romantic between Sesshomaru and Rin. Why would independent fan scanlators censor anything out?

Wait... what? I'm a self-appointed BNF because I and the small circle of Sess/Kagura shippers I hang with who don't really care about this crap don't want an automatic asshat stamp just because of who we ship? Oh, that's rich. X3 And it seems only yesterday I was a 'homeless scab.' You've come a long way, baby...

But, SRSLY, you all could go round and round forever—where she stops, nobody knows—and by 'she' I mean Soojinyeh, and by 'where...' well, you get the idea. But I'll put away my weapons now, words and otherwise, and I suggest you all do the same. As long as what essentially constitutes a wiki contains factual information and not opinion stated as fact (though opinions are okay, as long as they are presented as such) there is no need for such an argument. And, in the words of Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that. :)

You fucking idiots. um, "67.241.178.106" is me, trying to figure out how to use this site, and all I said was "what?", which I meant to say under "Izzanami". "what?" could be taken either way, and has nothing to do with Jinxycat. The fact 'two' people think it's Jinxy when any intelligent person would bend it toward their own oh so precious ship shows you're probably part of some Soojinyeh PA.

I applaud caring so much about a pairing in a manga... good going!

God, this het shipping BS... makes me even more happy I ship yaoi and don't deal with this crap.

btw, since people will try to get their own interpretation about it. "what?" was just about seeing MY name here, in a het ship war of all places.

For god fucking sake, I DON'T CARE ABOUT HET, But keep my name out of this shit, FFS, I'm a yaoi Sessh/Inu shipper, I DON'T CARE.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD EVERYONE JUST STOP POSTING.

Jinx, I thought you left, what are you still doing here? Sailormercury1 wasn't talking about you, she was talking about how the two people littleirshgirl and whats-her-face called Izzanami and Ravyn Skye BN Fs, and since they'd been accused of being socks, that they were talking about themselves. Nothing was said about you, and she didn't call you a "homeless scab", where'd that come from? If you don't care, why are you still watching and posting when you haven't been in the conversation for who knows how long? That makes it look like you do. Edit: I'm not sure what you mean by the round and round thing, IMO, you sound kind of confused. Don't take this the wrong way, but it comes off as trying a bit too hard to sound clevery/snarky and falling short. Please, just let it go.

Izzanami, I'm not gonna ask why you two have the same IP, but it's only natural to assume it's someone when that's the IP that shows up for that person. Why are you calling me a "fucking idiot"? I didn't do anything to you.

PA? Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, people looking at this just think it looks suspicious? I'm not accusing you of anything, but the fact that the people above kept on mentioning you and Ravyn Skye over and over again, linked to your fics, seem to know a lot about you, and then you show up here even after soojinyeh's long gone like you were watching it or something kind of makes you look kind of... Some of us aren't even Inuyasha fans, we don't know what you're talking about.

Again, I'm not accusing you of anything. And the hetero-bashing is not needed. Sorry, personally I can't stand the double standard when it comes to that. If I had said "God, this yaoi shipping BS, makes me more happy I ship het and don't deal with this crap" you would've called me homophobic.

You say you don't care, and yet you're clearly watching this and you keep posting even though soojinyeh's stopped posting a while ago, and you're cursing and calling people names like you're angry. That makes it look like you care. Please, if you don't care, just leave it alone, stop posting.

Note: TO EVERYONE WHO MAY BE READING-PLEASE, KEEP ANY OPINION TO YOURSELVES. THIS THREAD IS OVER.

Firstly, Jinxycat knew what was going on here because she's my BFF, she LIVES with me (why we have the same ip (since you asked), if you'd read the comments, you'd know that), and after I was told by someone unrelated to this that my name showed up here, I told her about it, she looked, and commented.

The "homeless" thing... try reading the comments in here; jeez, that was up near the top before other people showed up, and before Jinxycat originally stopped commenting,(Soojinyeh called her homeless, because moving two states away to start a new life means a person is homeless apparently), well that comes from prior wank Soojinyeh had with Jinxycat. The "scab" part is from prior wank Soojinyeh had with Jinxy too,; would you like links, or screen caps?

Mentioning Ravyn Skye, or me... hmm, probably because Soojinyeh has been known by many to troll us, if you'd like links, I'd be happy to provide them for that too. It's not like it's a secret.

And seriously, I would like nothing more than to stop commenting in some post about pairing wars, but people keep throwing my name into it, and I'm sick of hearing it through random e-mails that always say something like: "someone said something about you 'here (this thread)'". I'm not "watching" it, but obviously other people are, and they keep telling me about it (not Ravyn or Jinxy).

You want people to stop replying? Well, I will when people keep my name out of it.

And btw, I'm not hetero bashing (are we on the snugglenets or maybe livejournal?), but I REALLY don't CARE about het pairing wars, and I don't appreciate being accused of being involved in them. Het pairing wars or ANY pairing wars are something I could care less about in ANY fandom I'm involved in. LOL 'angry'? Nah, not angry, but I'm not going to have my name thrown in and be accused of trolling in something I don't care about without stating I'm not involved when I'm accused of it.

Also, if your a mod or something and you just can't deal with some post in probably thousands where people argue on the interwebs (oh the horror), then close it, and stop. And if you are a mod, I'm sorry, but trying to make a final comment where you ask questions, and mention other people, then say "THIS THREAD IS OVER."... that's kind of skewing it for and just setting yourself up for the last comment. If my name shows up here again, and I don't respond that will be the case, because now I am going to watch this myself.

iloveoprah's not a mod, there's no mods here. She just wants people to stop I guess.

iloveorpah was referring to the comment jinxy made to sailormercury1, who didn't call her homeless. She must have mistaken sailormercury1 for soojinyeh or something.

ikr, I'm trying not to dip my toes into this, but looking at the links they provided such as the lulzyfandom, it looks like you do use socks, you kept that one for a while before outing yourself. You say she's a troll, but I see no trolling, I just see her being really outspoken. Being vocal about your opinions, whether it annoys people or not, isn't trolling. Making a sock to stalk someone because you don't like their opinions is trolling, and if that's what happened, you didn't do a very good job of it seeing as how you actually left links to yourself. It looks like you got offended and came here out of grudge.

But in any case, she's made the right choice and left after the above two left. You're still here. You being so defensive makes you look like you have something to hide. And the e-mails story isn't really believable...seems like too much of a coincidence.

"Known by many" but if that was the case, why would they need to google her in the first place? They'd already know. Aristarae claims she'd never heard of soojinyeh before this thread. The comments from those two reek of grudge...plus they claimed to have gotten information from your lj, but your lj is f-locked. I just find it hard to believe that anons would care enough to do RESEARCH on someone.

Listen, if you wanna get mad at someone, get mad at littleirishgirl and Aristarae. And maybe jinxycat for cursing out soojinyeh cause that's what started all of this. They're the ones that made you look bad, and the link to the lulzy journal really isn't helping. And now, by showing up here, you're making it worse for yourself.

Really...I think you guys should stop. You've been told that by like, five different people by now. Your name's showing up because you keep coming here trying to "defend" yourself and making yourself look bad in the process.

Jesus, you people are impossible. If soujinyea really was trolling you (which I doubt, you're the one with the troll journal still here acting like this) I can see why.

YOU'RE RIGHT. DOES THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY. JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT.

Edit: Wait...I remember you, you're constantly on sf_d and stupid_free and fandom_wank. LOL, you're the last person on Earth who should be talking about P As. Gods, you've been banned from around 5 comms, each of them with thousands of members and you still don't get the picture.

You're also the last person who should be talking about insensitivity, what with you throwing around sexist, racist comments and using "retarted" as an insult and your nazi jokes, and then using "this is the internet" as an excuse. It's only offensive if it's directed towards you or one of your drones, right?

Oh-and the back-patting and ass-licking that littleirishgirl and the other sock were doing just a few moments ago above look EXACTLY like what you, RS and Jinxy do on lj...hmm...coincidence?

I can't believe I just saw this. OMG, this is GOLD. I can't stop laughing at these three.

You know...when I first saw this I didn't recognize the two, but today I read this: http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1258432.html?thread=218371520#t218371520

It lead me back here and then I realized...you're probably right, where have I seen this kind of bad Japanese before?

I can't believe anon actually had the nerve to claim that -ai is used romantically. It's meant as platonic affection.

What I love is that they keep talking from pairing bashing or rin bashing from soojinyeh, and yet if you look, she has no rin bashing whatsoever, and she simply disagrees with this pairing in a romantic sense, which isn't the same thing as bashing. But Rayvn skye clearly has Kagura bashing in her stories and Izzanami belongs to a comm called kagomesux. I guess it's true that people usually assume that other people are like them.

I was reminded of this while looking at the fandom wank wiki and coming across some familiar names...these two have a history, don't they?

"animenena", you sound like you know them from somewhere.

I do. They put me up on 888chan and told anons to spam me, called me a nigger and made fun of my son because I said something about them in a snark comm. I retaliated by doing the same to them on chans and craigslist, which I admit was off, but honestly, if they'd never put me up first I wouldn't have done it. The thing is-they kept blaming the wrong people for it, even after I came out about it-the person who they blamed apologized even though she didn't need to cause it wasn't her fault, and they did not apologize for wrongly accusing her and they still blamed people that had nothing to do with it. Then they went and put one of their enemies on the chans even though that one had been quiet for months.

They're making way too big a deal off the homeless remark-Soojin's BEEN homeless before and her circumstances were much more dire than Jinxy's (I won't say them here). Jinxy isn't going through any hard times, she just lost her job, everyone's losing jobs, Soojin's lost jobs before (she just lives off her savings til she gets a new one like she's supposed to), it happened to me too. You're supposed to downgrade, make sacrifices, give stuff up, tighten your belt, go on unemployment, work as much as you can etc. like everyone else. When you live in America, there are so many charity programs and resources that you really have no excuse.

Soojin wasn't homeless cause she simply got laid off (when that happens, she just finds another job and cuts her expenses), something VERY traumatic happened to her-much more traumatic than Jinxy simply losing her job (boo-hoo, normal shit), and she still got herself back up within a month. Jinxy's been like this for two YEARS, and she is older and has more resources. I understand she has a car...why didn't you just sell that and take the bus like everyone else? I don't know how many jobs she has or how many hours she's working, but at this point she SHOULD be working 7 days a week, 16 hours. That's what I did, and I never had to sponge off someone else and I had a kid to boot, and I was younger than she was. Even if you only work at Mc Donalds, there's programs that'll let you stay for like, $400 a month. No excuse whatsoever. I'll understand if you live in a third world, poverty stricken country but that's not the case. If you were reallt disabled-wait, scratch that, if you're disabled you can get checks from the government. No excuse whatsoever to sponge off someone for two years. Boo hoo, you lost your job like everyone else, get yourself back up like everyone else.

But then again, look who she hangs out with-Ravyn skye, who cries over people talking about her online. EVERYBODY has people that talk about them. She's dealt with nothing. Growing up, I had to deal with people SHOOTING at me, and I didn't cry. Soojin had to deal with people attacking her in her sleep (now THAT is real bullying, not this internet shit Ravyn cries about, oh baw, get over it), and she never cried, felt sorry for herself or anything of the sort-she fought back (physically, mind you) and never dwelled on it. Lord KNOWS how these people would handle REAL shit. And they're actually OLDER than we are. With kids.

Sigh. Well, now we know who to look out for. Let's drop this discussion.

"automatic asshat stamp"...what is Jinxy talking about? Everyone seems to agree that Sess Kagura fans tend to be smarter-well, everyone that's objective that is. No one hates us besides the Sess Rin fans (even though we don't hate them and continuously try to be nice) who can't agree to disagree. Asshat stamp from who? Ravyn Skye? Everyone I talk to says that we tend to be much more reasonable than the Sess Rin fans (who tend to villainize anyone who disagrees with them in even the most polite manner and have all sorts of bashing in their fics).

All I'm gonna say is, they're lucky this happened online cause the last bitch that pissed off soojin ended up in the hospital being treated for third degree burns.

I lol'ed at the part where they actually clain that her fics can't possibly be bad cause they're popular. Quality By Popular Vote much? Please. According to that kind of logic, Twilight is the best book ever and Pokemon is a better anime than Grave Of The Fireflies. And Ke$ha is a better singer than Jennifer Hudson. Popularity has nothing to do with quality, especially in a site like ff.net that's filled with teenagers who care more about Wish Fulfillment than quality.

And they're not BN Fs...Small Name Big Ego much? BN Fs have thousands of reviews, they're nowhere near that. Even if they were, that means nothing, very few BN Fs are big because they're actually good, most just have connections.

Sorry to bring up something old but i just stumbled across this. about the korea dn ajapan thing. Korea and Japan do have an extensive history with each other and come from the same origins, and are culturally very similar. Someone from Korea or China WOULD know better about Japanese culture than an American who visits from time to time because the cultures are alike, just like someone from the US would know better about the UK because the cultures are similar and they have history with each other.

This chick, I remember, was in RS's reviews, and she is native Japanese: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/912851/turtlequeen2

She hates Sess/Rin and ships sess/Kagura.

Izzanami and RS and both westerners, turtlequeen2 and soojinyeh are actually Asian, and TQ is Japanese. I think the latter have more weight to their arguments.

im sorry, but the whole "they censored out the sess/rin romance part to not offend the westerners" thing doesn't make sense to me. there's been plenty of things in the West that had adult/child relations, like twilight, pirates of the caribbean, romeo and juliet and no one threw a fit over those. so why would inuyasha be any different.

i also find it amusing how aristarae accused the other person of "promoting racial stereotypes" because she said that korea and japan are culturally similar (which is true), which is not a racial stereotype, when she was the one who implied that rumiko takahashi MUST like lolicon because she is japanese, basically implying that all japanese people think and act the same (which is NOT true), which IS a racial stereotype.

Just to clarify what I meant. Izzanami and RS are obviously westerners who have studied a little bit of only one Asian country and have never studied any of the other ones, thus they dont know this. I am someone who's lived in both Korea and Japan. Let's get this out of the way: ALL the Asian countries are similar, but Korea and Japan are even more so due to the fact that they both used to belong to China, and because Korea spend FOURTY YEARS UNDER JAPANESE RULE, and due to this, derives a lot of its culture FROM Japan. If Izz and RS has studied ASIA and not just a little bit of JAPAN they would know this. Anime/manga fans tend to think that certain things they know about Japan are exclusive to Japan, but they are not-those things are practiced in most parts of Asia.

Of course it isn't exactly the same. There's subtle differences, like hanbok instead of kimono, hangul instead of kanji/hiragana, tae kwon do instead of karate, Japanese people driving on the left side, won instead of yen, different food-actually, the food is similar too, and they share certain foods like tempura, and the pretzel sticks covered in chocolate (Japanese call it pocky, Koreans call it pepero). And Koreans reading left to right like westerners, Japanese reading the other way.

But once you get past those little things, the more you realize how incredibly similar they are. They're both much looser on censorship than westerners and have no problem putting sexual jokes in kids' programs. Schools start in January. Schools wear uniforms (hell even the school buildings look the same). Both countries are rigorous about discipline, hard work and education and drive their kids like slaves. Both countries physically discipline their kids (actually, all the Asian countries do this). You take your shoes off before entering a house in both countries. Both countries are male-dominated, conformist and lack individuality. They have the same basic expectations when it comes to manners and being polite.

And when it comes to moral beliefs, it's exactly thre same since they both come from China, and their beliefs come from confucianism (which is dominant in China, and they've adopted since that's where they come from). So yes, soojinyeh DOES have a right to tell you that just because Japan had child brides in the past and lolicon exists, it DOES NOT mean that it is normal now and that modern Japanese people aren't gonna blink an eye if you marry and 8 year old to a grown man.

You know why? Korea had child brides too. But soojinyeh, a modern Korean, does not seem to be supportive of that kind of thing at all, now does she? There's characters in Korean manhwa that are involved in relationships with large age gaps, but soojinyeh isn't supportive of that, is she? Eating cats and dogs is popular in Korea and other parts of Asia, but that doesn't mean soojinyeh does that, and it'd be rather rude to assume someone eats cats and dogs just because they're Korean.

Same think with Japan, Takahashi, and lolicon. Just because it happened in the past, does not mean it's ok now, even if lolicon fiction exists. And just because lolicon is popular with some people in Japan DOES NOT mean that Rumiko Takahashi likes it, and it's rude to assume she does just because she's Japanese. It's racial stereotyping.

Also, I'm a bit bewildered at Ravyn skye/littlerishgirl's description of the movie. She says there was this whole thing of pointing at Rin and Kagome and going "they are both Izayoi". I'm watching the movie right now and...that never happens.

What actually does happen is that when thinking of "someone to protect", Inuyasha thinks of Kagome, but Sesshomaru thinks of both Jaken AND Rin. If rin was a romantic interest, she would've been there by herself to compare to Kagome, but I think what they were trying to say was that Sesshomaru really doesn't have a romantic interest, and that Rin is a platonic thing just like Jaken.

I also think RS is stretching it a bit there when it comes to her explainaition of Tenseiga, saying it was notable because it was the first time he'd done something for someone he didn't love. That's not true. He's saved the otter demon, saved Jaken, saved Inuyasha, Kagome, etc. Done plenty of things before in the series for people he didn't love.

I think RS is just in denial when it comes to that and won't admit that the instance does lend a lot of credibility the the Sess Kagura pairing because of her own devotion to Sess Rin, because she doesn't WANT it to be true.

im just loling at the fact they spent all that time arguing about Asian culture with an actual Asian person.

About how Izz and RS insisted Korea is not Japan...actually, besides minor things like language and driving on the left side of the road and clothes...it basically is. And I can say that as a Japanese person.

If you've been corrected by a Korean girl, who was born there and lived there for years, then you're definitely wrong about pedophilia being normal in Japan since Korea and Japan are the most culturally similar Asian nations. They've had history for at least 1000 years, and Korea was under Japanese rule and had their culture replaced by Japan's as recently as 50 years ago. The Japanese imperial family is at least partly descended from the imperial family of Baekje.

Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Korea_relations for those who say OMG Korea isn't japan, cause it actually basically is.

Izz claimed that it didn't matter what the Korean versions of the profiles said, that's not true since her claim was that the ONLY the English versions were censored out for Westerners, and Koreans aren't westerners. If that was true, then the Korean versions of the profiles would NOT say the same thing that the English versions do, they'd say the same thing that the Japanese versions do (which, according to you, say that Sess and Rin are romantic). But they don't, they say the same thing the English versions do, which means you're probably lying about the English versions being censored.

Also read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Korea_disputes A lot of Japan's culture is actually derived from Korea, and a lot of the things you guys think is Japanese is actually Korean.

And about the child brides, they didn't go to learn about things like childbirth, they went to learn about noble life, etiquette, customs, art, calligraphy, that kind of thing.

Did anyone else notice how cowardly they are? I already knew they couldn't do anything on their own without calling the other in for back-up but now they can't even confront someone under their own names, they have to do it under socks.

Uusual error, usual error, hypocricy everywhere. Every time they start spouting "OMG!no pairing bashing!" and talking about free speech rights and whatnot it's like they're talking about themselves (they assume others do that cause that's what they do). Sitting there talking about how it's not serious business and it's just pairings when they're the ones that throw a shitfit over pairings (because oh my god someone said they don't like the same pairing I like!). Posting up rants like this (http://fanficrants.livejournal.com/9344394.html, they lost their shit cause someone dared say that Sess Rin wasn't canon). When in reality, the only people who act like that are them, no one else said anything but that said pairing wasn't canon (what a crime!), the people starting shipwars are them (politely saying you don't like pairing X isn't starting a shipwar, attacking someone for disliking pairing X is starting a shipwar), and they themselves write bashing fics such as this (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4508008/1/Suck) and this (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4540952/1/When_Breast_Pumps_Attack), oh but if someone else writes a bashing fic about a pairing THEY like they start BAWW Wing about being persecuted. They go around shouting Don't like Don't Read at others and want others to respect their rights to free speech but go around reading anti-fics clearly labeled as anti-fics written by someone they claim to hate (stalkers) and won't respect anyone else's right to free speech. also izzanami also mods a kagome-bashing COMM. http://kagomesux.livejournal.com/profile Oh but soojinyeh is obsessed because she dared say that Sessrin isn't canon, even though they're the ones that follow her around with socks to monitor what they say about their favorite pairing, and if anyone ever modded a bashing comm for a pairing they like they'd have thrown a shitfit.

LOL this thread is gold: http://ffrantsanon.livejournal.com/700.html?thread=2349244#t2349244 Also I love how RS likes to tell other people not to take pairings too seriously when she's the one who says stuff like this: "Putting up something that bashes a PAIRING (and is also a thinly veiled attack on a specific author) on The Pit is another matter"

Yes because pairings are the most sacred thing on the planet, they are off-limits, no one can ever make fun of fictional fandom pairings because they are SACRED!!!! She's the one that throws a shitfit simply cause someone said they don't like X pairing.

and I know this is old so I'll drop it now.

IDK what's going on, but soojinyeh has never had issues with anyone besides the RS and crew. RS and crew and had issues with basically everyone on the planet, to the point they have FW wiki entries about them. I'm guessing that Ravyn's behavior is probably the problem.

Ravyn skye makes Sess Rin fans look bad (not to mention the UGLY fraudter girlfriend who she can't do ANYTHING without and the weak, childish girl that follows them around, desperate to fit in.)...she is the reason why half the fandom consider Sess Rin fans to be creepy. Not all lolicon fans are as crazy as she is. Believe me.

lol

http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/Ravyn_Skye

http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/Izzanami

http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/Jinxy-sama

And about the whole "the reason Tenseiga said an empty hole in his heart has been filled for the first time is because he didn't love her and this was the first time he tried to save someone he didn't love, when he saves Rin it's selfish cause it hurts him personally. This was platonic compassion/respect" thing.

If THAT was the reason, why didn't Tenseiga change into a fighting weapon when he saved Kagome, Miroku and Sango? He didn't love them and he saved them. Or when he saved Jaken, who he doesn't love? Or when he saved Inuyasha?

Because that ISN'T the reason. He's shown platonic feelings/compassion for people plenty of times before. The only kind of feeling he's never shown for anyone in the series before is the romantic kind.

If view in the most explicit way, the proper answer will have to be #7 because in the end Rin isn't grown up and Kagura is dead.

Kagura being dead doesn't mean he didn't like her, and RT seems to hate May December Romance type things so camp #5 for me.

I ship Sess Rin but I know that Sess/Kagura is the canon pairing, come on now, even Rin herself recognizes that.

Also, I'd like to apologize for the trolls above (if it really is who I think it is, they are known wankers and they have a reputation for having persecution complexes and for being nazi-like over this pairing). Not all Sess Rin shippers are like that. Some of us can actually respect peoples' rights to dislike what they want and we don't go around trying to silence everyone that doesn't like the stuff we do like the people above. Jesus christ, all that over a polite disagreement. What happened to free speech.

I wish I knew what those people were, but I don't, let's not talk about this.

Camp 5. Kagura being dead doesn't mean it isn't a canon pairing, it just makes it a case of The One That Got Away.

"Yeah yeah I know how can someone dead have more potential than someone young and alive"

Because whether a pairing is canon or not isn't about whether they are alive, it's about whether the characters have feelings for each other. Sesshomaru and Kagura and romantic feelings for each other while Sesshomaru and Rin don't, so Sess/Kagu is canon and Sess/Rin isn't though Rin is alive.

Just like Inuyasha/Kikyo is canon and Inuyasha/Sango is not though Kikyo is dead and Sango is alive because Inu and Kikyo have feelings for each other and Inu and Sango don't.

And Seshsomaru's response was murky?? Are you kidding me? Kagura's part was murky (wanted to see him before she died) and Sesshomaru's part was definite (Tenseiga changes into a fighting weapon because an empty hole has been filled in his heart for the first time?)

Wasn't the original point of Romeo and Juliet that the relationship had no chance since it was entirely based on looks.

I think too many people still know the old meaning (and it's too usefull a term to have around) for that, but I'm not a linguist.