Characters The Order Of The Stick Team Evil Discussion

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Hodor2
Topic
10:05:19 AM May 21st 2016
Thanks to whoever added Oona. I added a couple of additional things. I think her beast taming abilities do suggest a Ranger and her philosophy of loyally serving a master in exchange for favor (and expecting loyalty from subordinates in exchange for good treatment) suggests a Lawful Evil outlook.

Also, I think I appropriately changed her way of speaking from Hulk Speak to the more intellectual You No Take Candle. It also occurred to me that since for some odd reason, Orcs aren't goblinoids, the fact she sounds more intelligent than an Orc isn't significant. The other goblins just speak normal grammatically correct Common/English, and so I assume her way of speaking is to suggest this isn't her first language and/or to go with her Northern Barbarian personality.
SpectralTime
10:36:50 AM May 21st 2016
I meant compared to other characters that engage in Hulk Speak in-comic, like orcs, where it is used to indicate low intelligence.

But your works fine.
Hodor2
11:12:28 AM May 21st 2016
Ah, I see what you mean. Thanks though. It is definitely hard to distinguish between the two tropes and there's probably examples that could fit both (i.e. Mongo pawn in game of life).

And yeah, it isn't completely clear yet to what extent her talking this way is intelligence versus ESL.
NonoRobot
Topic
09:47:25 AM Jan 23rd 2012
edited by NonoRobot
Hello everyone,

Today, Peteman removed this entry (which was mine initially) :

Too Dumb to Live: Really Tsukiko ? You really thought for one moment that Redcloak would stay idle while you crush his long-time plan ? You really thought that gloating about how you were going to usurp his place in front of him was a smart move ? Really ?! Sorry my girl, but you got what you deserved.

And added his own instead :

Underestimating Badassery: She probably thought if nothing else, between her huge spell selection and her Wights, she could get to Xykon before Redcloak could do anything to stop her, which is why she spent so much time taunting Redcloak and spelling out her plans. Between Redcloak's ability to take control of those Wights and his wards that prevent teleportation, Tsukiko soon found herself way over her head.

While I admit I don't like seeing my entry removed, his entry is also viable. However, I was wondering if both could coexist, since in my eyes both are true. Plus, I was wondering if others tropes could apply to the situation at hand, such as Bullying a Dragon.

I would like to hear your thoughts about it.

Sincerely yours,

Nonorobot
SomeNewGuy
09:51:39 AM Jan 23rd 2012
Honestly? I think both work. Yes, Tsukiko did gravelly underestimate Redcloak, but bragging about planning to blow the whistle on the Dark One's plan right in his high priest's face (who, by the way, is a master cleric and recently became able to cast 9th level spells) was a ridiculously boneheaded move.
NonoRobot
10:49:47 AM Jan 23rd 2012
Ok. I put back Too Dumb to Live in place, and added Bullying a Dragon. I added also a quote of Redcloak to consolidate the Too Dumb to Live entry. While we're at it, does that quote also counts as an Hannibal Lecture ?
StFan
12:55:41 PM Jan 23rd 2012
Hannibal Lecture is more about interrogation situations, and playing mind games. Not too much the case here... Redcloak was just entirely honest, before simply offing Tsukiko. I don't think it would apply.
Jordan
12:58:59 PM Jan 23rd 2012
Yeah, from the way he sighed, I kind of got the feeling that Redcloak was kind of glad to finally say out loud his actual plans.
NonoRobot
12:59:48 PM Jan 23rd 2012
Yes, I think you're right, this isn't the right trope. I'm still wondering if it could counts as a "The Reason You Suck" Speech though.
Peteman
01:08:09 PM Jan 23rd 2012
edited by Peteman
My reasoning for altering things was because Tsukiko probably considered herself a Fragile Speedster compared to Redcloak but had Xykon serving as her Superweapon Surprise. Redcloak may be more powerful than her, but it's as they say, "I don't need to be faster than the bear, I just need to be faster than the guy behind me". She had several wights that could be used as interference and her teleportation spells give her a mobility Redcloak simply does not have (clerics have pretty much one teleportation spell, and that only gets them into a single, preset location), and she had plenty of spells that could at least be somewhat problematic for even a 17th level spellcaster (since she seems pretty high level herself). It's just that Redcloak was able to nullify her "speedster" status and her versatility by turning her allies against her and keeping her in a warded area.

Also, I don't consider her Bullying a Dragon, because Tsukiko had what she saw as a bigger dragon in her corner.

Basically, she wasn't in control nearly as much as she thought she was, but for someone of her power level and resources, she wasn't completely stupid in her overconfidence.
Peteman
Topic
07:59:09 AM Jan 23rd 2012
I want to include a trope for Tsukiko for her death from her wights betraying her, given she herself was a traitor. Which one should it be?
SomeNewGuy
09:01:38 AM Jan 23rd 2012
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Characters.TheOrderOfTheStickTeamEvil