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I agree with your reasoning.
I also have to agree. And I'd add that the Double Standard potholes are particularly noxious, since even if the example was fair it'd be entirely possible for Rowling to have simply grown over time and it specifically mentions "years later".
Edited by nrjxllThanks for the responses. I'll wait a couple days to see if anyone else wants to weigh in. If no-one objects, however, then I'll go ahead and remove the entries.
I also agree.
I used to plug my deviantart here but turns out the link was too long.I always felt the Dursleys being described as overweight was meant to hammer home that Harry wasn't being fed properly. If Harry was being fed like Dudley then presumably he would have been of at least average weight.
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.Hello, sorry for the late reply. I’m responsible for the original entries. I see why Rowling’s 2006 condemnation of fat-bashing on her website isn’t directly relevant to discussion of the books, but in light of her depiction of Dudley, it seemed an apt indication of her apparent bias. I’m willing to leave it out, but I do think Dudley qualifies as an Acceptable Target. He’s characterised with contemptuous reference to his weight, a love of bullying, and a tendency to throw tantrums over insufficient quantities of food and birthday presents. While his parents’ indulgence of him is comical, it’s shown to have nurtured maliciousness and avarice. Rowling implicitly seems to associate his appetite with this. The next three books follow suit in bashing Dudley. The impression that I, an overweight boy, got from this was that Rowling considered such proportions as mine to be so offensive as to warrant unabashed scorn for what she seemed to imply to stem from ill-bred decadence. Dudley is a target, whom Rowling considers acceptable. Rowling dismissed accusation of hypocrisy via reference to a fan-made list of her sympathetic weighty characters. Neville Longbottom is “round-faced,” but only nasty characters call him fat, Mrs Weasley is “plump,” but she’s had seven kids, the Fat Friar is outright fat, but he appears briefly, and in the cosy mantle of a folkloric archetype. Very fat Professor Slughorn is sympathetic, but Rowling does dwell on his greed for social standing and his fear of facing his memory of telling Voldemort about Horcruxes. Hagrid is unusually tall and broad because of his giant heritage. Dolores Umbridge is implied to be somewhat fat, but her slight excess of weight isn’t discussed like Dudley’s. In Half Blood Prince, Harry notes the excess weight of Hepzibah Smith, who comes across as complacent and self-entitled, but is spoken of sympathetically by Dumbledore as “that poor, besotted old woman.” As noted in the Acceptable Targets page for the overall series, characters considered by Rowling to be visually unattractive tend not to fare very well morally; Pansy Parkinson has “a face like a pug,” etc, but I can’t recall mention of any heavily overweight girls. In 2006, Rowling, on her website, lamented the pressure on girls to be thin, the often blatantly absurd accusations of excess weight sometimes flippantly used by girls to demean each other, and protested that she’d rather her two daughters were “a thousand things before thin.” The gist of it was that personal worth shouldn’t be denoted by visual fashionability. “Is fat really the worst thing a human being can be?” she protested. “Not to me.” I’m willing to leave it out if it violates TV Tropes’ rules, but I do feel it’s relevant.
You just described how overweight characters in the Harry Potter series run the gamut of characterization, from evil to good, from petty to magnanimous. That does not support a claim of weight-bashing.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here."You just described how overweight characters in the Harry Potter series run the gamut of characterization, from evil to good, from petty to magnanimous. That does not support a claim of weight-bashing."
Although the other examples of excess weight are lesser, yet the narration dwells on Dudley's weight.
Edited by Existing87I understand what you're saying, and those are good points. The entries just sounded like Creator Bashing to me, which is against TVtropes policy. I'm not saying that to sound accusatory or anything, that was just my initial impression.
It's true that Dudley's weight receives more focus, but I still don't see it as targeting or mocking overweight boys as a whole. Admittedly, I did forget that Hagrid's size was because he's half-giant. But even there, you still have characters like Neville and Mrs Weasley, where even if it's not pointed out as much, they too are heavy-set. Plus, I think the whole thing of Dudley's parental indulgence is just based around him being a spoiled kid.
It more falls under the idea of various unpleasant characters each being ugly for different reasons. Which I think can be a bit of an unfortunate implication sometimes, but it is a common storytelling trope in general. Lastly, regarding Rowling's views about girls, I think it's simply a case that she matured over time, as 'nrjxll' pointed out. What Rowling may not have thought much about at the time of writing the books is something that she might be more aware of now.
Edited by StardustSoldierHagrid being called a half-giant was a rumor in the first book, an insult about his size. The Fantastic Racism meant that he was less than a human/person.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Hello Stardust Soldier, sorry for my late reply. I see your point that my listings stretch the specification of an Acceptable Target. I must admit, I did feel slight trepidation about the accusatory tone of my listings. While I feel quite strongly about the point, I concede that an Acceptable Targets listing isn't the place to discuss it, and I appreciate your amicability. If it's against the site policy, then of course I'll keep it out. Hello crazysamaratin, I just meant Hagrid is supposed to be supernaturally big rather than fat.
Edited by Existing87Not a problem. I'm glad we were able to have a calm discussion about it.
On the Harry Potter Philosopher's Stone YMMV page, there's this entry for Acceptable Targets:
And also on the Goblet of Fire YMMV page:
I don't feel that these are valid examples of Acceptable Targets. I explained my reasoning on the Goblet of Fire discussion page. But basically, while it's true that Dudley's weight is poked fun of, I don't see how that applies to overweight boys as a whole. I think that's a stretch. Hagrid is another heavy-set character, and a much nicer and more likeable person, and his weight isn't made fun of (as far as I can remember anyway; it's been a while since I read the books). To me, the entries feel like they're more targeted at J.K. Rowling herself to criticize her apparent hypocrisy on the issue, but I don't see how Rowling's comment in itself really has anything to do with Harry Potter. (I do agree with Rowling's later stance; I just feel it's a separate issue.)
But that's just my take on it. I wanted to get some other opinions.
Edited by StardustSoldier