Why do Americans hate Lisa Simpson

I think it's a key problem when you try to create a character that's supposed to be always right, not only do they lack humanization from flawed moments but they get insufferable when the writers struggle to make them right even when they are just as bad. A smart character needs to get knocked off their pedestal once in a while, just like a character that's always wrong needs at least one moment of competence (Peter is almost as one note as Lois due to rarely being anything more than an imbecile with zero redeeming aspects).

That said Lisa's Not So Above It All moments are far more frequent than made out to be.

edited 9th Dec '12 6:09:25 PM by Psi001

It bugs me that the show can't quite decide whether to treat Lisa as a child or an adult.

She goes off on these self-righteous tangents that everyone listens to and has the general attitude of an adult, but she gets coddled whenever she's proven wrong as a little girl. This kind of thing would be acceptable if she actually grew as a person for it, but she ends up doing the exact same thing later. This kind of cycle works for comedic character traits, but Lisa is almost always treated as the serious, "correct" party in whatever she does.

Instead of a little girl getting in over her head and maturing afterwards, she's a tiny burnt-out hippie busybody that retreats the second her fragile ego is bruised that requires constant reassurance.

I know that, but people will still blame him, regardless.

This. I also don't consider her to be as much of a spotlight setaler as people make her out to be.

The reason I dislike Lisa it's the same reason there are barely child actors I can tolerate: she acts more like a mini-adult than a as a mature child.

She used to be a pretty good example of a mature child,...that's the sad part

Stewie Griffin never was,...fine. Either you love him for being a mini-adult in a diaper (with the occasional remembrance that he's a baby),or you hate him.

This is true of most kid characters sans lets say Aang,Tuck Foley, the cast of Recess

However Lisa keeps shifting and has for better or worse mostly become a mini-adult of the preachy kind.

Say what you will about Seasons 11 and 12,but no one can deny them playing Lisa's flanderization for laughs was a good thing,and when she was the adult,.... (which happened a lot counter Homer's Take A Level In Jerk Ass) she was actually correct.

edited 10th Dec '12 10:53:06 AM by terlwyth

I'd say the cast of Recess gets it worse. They built their own freaking society and have a bureaucracy.

My comment is reference to their behavior not being as "off the wall" or excitable based on their actions.

I like them both.

The monarchy is of course an overexaggeration, but other stuff like the "unwritten rule of not snitching" is actually a Truth in Television.

As for Lisa. It's because she's the mouthpiece for whenever the writers decide they want to get on their soap box. She's not nearly as obnoxious as Brian Griffin or the Canon Sue that so many of her detractors label her as, but it can still get annoying.

Personally, the only episode I ever found myself really disliking her was the time she got a restraining order on Bart and forced him to live in a doghouse outside of the house.

Then where the hell were you where she convinced her Grandpa to free the bulls and that would stampede out to town on emotional blackmail?

You know where she claimed to always be of support despite no evidence of that?

Or even in Season 11 where she wreaked Disproportionate Retribution on Homer and Bart by convincing them they have leprosy?

I'd have to watch those episodes again. The restraining order one has been the only one to stick with me.

I've not seen many of the new ones, I know in the leprosy one the plan turned on her and she felt bad for it at least. Some of her more sociopathic moments (and those of the other family members) seem more like a bad attempt to cash in on the newer array of adult cartoons like Seth Mac Farlene's work.

I didn't mind her being a bit of a prick originally since her self righteousness was at least treated as a vice and hindered her. I can stand a Straight Man with a flawed method if they are treated as being inperfect, if anything it works to make them more a character and give a more valid reason why no one listens to them. In earlier episodes, if she got too arrogant or hypocritical she usually made a bumble or characters such as Bart were savvy enough to point it out. I could stand even Brian because of this, he was skewed in his views but he still often suffered for it and had to work harder getting his point across.

I think what may be a problem with her, Marge and some other show examples like Lois is that they are now paired with characters too brainless to defend themselves and are only there to further point out how right they are, so they basically get away with having a pedestal despite being unbearably two faced or self righteous about it.

edited 10th Dec '12 6:23:48 PM by Psi001

And thanks to Societies Double standards concerning physical comedy you'll never see Lisa or Marge suffer the same physical comedy Bart or Homer does. I liken it to the reason why people hated Lola Bunny so much in Space Jam.

I've seen them suffer some amusing slapstick in the show (eg. anything involving a ball tends to go badly for Lisa). Perhaps the only noticeable placement of this is maybe that whenever she and Bart fight he usually gets his ass handed to him. Oh, and apparently the writers flat out hated the idea of Homer strangling Lisa.

Marge is a different story,people point her mistakes out all the time,...the writers make brilliant jokes about how boring she can be. If anything Marge is like the Brian Griffin in that sense

While Lisa is like the Lois,put on a pedestal for always being right,...but often just a psychotic or crazy as the others.

Marge does sometimes get in on it though, she treated Homer like crap in "Don't Fear The Roofer" and never got called out for it for example.

I am of the opinion that hate is a strong emotion to have, especially toward a fictional character, but I digress. I do like Lisa and can understand why others do not. What I don't get is why she gets so much vitriol, while Jerkass characters on this show, and others, usually get a pass from fans.

Some in this thread are missing the first point when the writers self-acknowledged that Lisa was getting too Soapbox Sadie , back in the episode about Pee Wee Football, where she tried to wedge herself into the football team in an effort to breed controversy (similar to the military school episode), but was so disheartened when Ned pointed out that a few girls were already on the team, and that the football was eco-friendly.

The only irredeemable portrayal of Lisa came from the one with the restraining order, which really was a Moral Event Horizon. The evolution episode was also pretty bad (as the whole thing was one big bash of conservatives, which is me saying a lot as my political views lend to one Rosa Luxemburg), but Lisa's preachiness is usually kept within solid parameters.

Possibly what lead to the "Likeable Smart Characters in Western Animation" thread.

Most of the Jerkass characters are idiots and treated as such. They aren't given a pedestal and are usually treated as pitiful and too stupid to know any better. Lisa on the other hand is meant to be the exact opposite. She hasn't got liability because she is supposed to represent a rare bastion of common sense despite sometimes being an asshole, and in particularly grating cases, is sometimes treated as right despite this.

edited 2nd Jan '13 6:21:26 PM by Psi001

To be fair, I think living in a place like Springfield would eventually lead anyone either incredibly cynical, insane, jaded, exasperated, frustrated, angry, or all of the former. Never mind someone who is still eight. If anything, what I miss the most from the old Lisa is her capacity to feel and act like an actual child, more than really minding her superiority bouts, which every child has at times, and only would be spurred by an environment as screwed up as hers.

Haven't ever watched the restraining order episode, though, but I have a hunch it's better that way.

edited 3rd Jan '13 11:58:09 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

It is,same with bullfighting episode.

As said, it isn't bad when they are deliberate Not So Above It All moments, but when the character is just as flawed as the usual "dumb jerk" characters and still get to keep a pedestal despite it, they become rather insufferable Karma Houdinis.

edited 3rd Jan '13 3:43:07 PM by Psi001

One thing that rubs me sort of wrong about the Lisa-bashing is that some people who do it seem to make her out to be some bullying monster who picks on her brother for no reason at all. Don't believe me? Peruse the DMOS page for The Simpsons. And as for the restraining order episode, did I see a different show than everyone else? Because I swear it started with Bart harassing Lisa. I have an older brother two years my senior, too, and I cannot tell you how often I would have liked to get a restraining order on him when we were kids (had I thought of it, and been able to). But I digress.

Probably because she can be a total jerk, even when not environmentally motivated, like in "On a Clear Day, I Can't See My Sister" (on my list of least favorite episodes).

Plus, a lot of people on 4chan are riled up about "Jazzy and the Pussycats" and made it look like she intended for the tiger to bite Bart's arm (it was all an accident) because she was jealous of him overshadowing her in music.

Plus a lot of people hate her spoiling Homer's BBQ in "Lisa the Vegetarian".

The only other jokes I hated about her were the PETA joke in "G.I. D'oh" and the "Fir is Murder" gag from "The Fight Before Christmas".

As of recently, she's been getting back on track. Heck, I kinda like "The D'oh-cial Network".

I think it's more due to the fact that when Bart acts like a tool, the narrative makes clear that's very much what he is. The occasional Positive Discrimination in the show sometimes makes Lisa a Designated Hero even when she's being the bigger Jerkass, though granted, she is deliberately played as an Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonist a lot more than some fans accuse ("Lisa The Vegetarian" made clear she went she went too far and had An Aesop over it).

edited 25th Jan '13 9:57:35 PM by Psi001

What Bart did in "On A Clear Day I Can't See My Sister" was a silly fart prank. While I understand and even have wanted a restraining order,the whole bullshit with forcing the guy out into the rain and needlessly poking him with Philips-head screw driver.

By law of Disproportionate Retribution,...it really is as if he did nothing.

And finally there's the end of the Israel episode where he gets a Groin Attack for simply taking the plane seat Lisa took. Sorry but that's Dude, Not Funny!.