A Song Of Ice And Fire

The Queen of Thorns?

Queen of Thorns, presumably, but idk what ATC is saying about her.

Olenna Redwyne/Tyrell is one of the better characters. Look forward to her.

@ deathpigeon: I'm only about a hundred pages in. Bran has been thrown off a wall and will either die or be crippled, Robert is anticipating war this creepy person who treats his sister like crap, and Jon is about to join the Night's Watch.

I think my favorite character so far is Jon. He's caring to his siblings, brave (stood up for keeping the cubs), good at making the best out of things (being a bastard), kind (didn't respond to Catelyn's hostility in kind or complained about her afterwards when he had the chance). It's difficult to remember he's fourteen. He seems mature beyond his years.

I like several of the characters, actually. Although they seem nice (well, most of them) people individually, you wonder what would happen if their interests clashed. For instance, I can't help wondering if Ned will oppose the king at some point, and if their childhood friendship will prevail in such a case. (Don't tell me.) Catelyn, who otherwise seems perfectly nice, is horrible to Jon because he's her husband's bastard. Arya is interesting for a child and makes me wonder about her future.

Edit: Definitely, that would be fun.

edited 2nd Nov '12 8:00:26 AM by AnEditor

Good luck!

Also, you should keep us updated with your progress and commentary! :D

This should be fun.

@An Editor: I agree with you. Jon is a good person.

The Cassells/Cassels (Jory and Rodrik) and Maester Luwin are also great people. I think you'll like them.

The AFFC chapter names bother me. I wish they were names instead of descriptive phrases since it makes it harder to keep the new characters straight.

I read a little further. Some of my reads will probably be amusingly off but bear with me, o people who have already read ahead.

So, Robert strikes me as Too Dumb to Live. Robert, I'm sorry about your dead girlfriend, but Ned's right, you don't put your greatest trust into the man who killed the previous king. And whoa, he put him in charge of East and West? Come on. And what's up with him listening to Cersei all the time? Come on, Robert. Grow some backbone. Listen to the loyal childhood friend, not the bitchy wife. Don't be so opinionated with Ned and so henpecked by the queen.

Okay, so Catelyn had a breakdown nursing Bran. @ATC, I agree with you, Maester Luwin seems cool (although I haven't seen a great deal of him so far.) Then, somebody tried to murder Bran again? Right. Why is the queen boinking her brother such important knowledge anyway? Robert wouldn't care. He doesn't love her. Maybe it's about Jaime losing favor with the king. That man gives me the creeps, by the way. There's something Disney-villainish about him, what with throwing children off towers within the first five minutes. Anyway, Catelyn totally goes Mama Bear on the assassin but gets overpowered and has to be saved by Bran's wolf. After that, she gets a grip, has this marvellous psychic vision of what really happened to Bran, and sets off to King's Landing to... do what, exactly? "Hey, you threw my son off a tower, and my sister says you murdered her husband. No, I don't have proof for either." Yeah, that will go well.

Meanwhile, Tyrion and Jon seem on the way to become BFF. I rather like Tyrion. I had my doubts before when he slapped the prince but I've lost all sympathy for the latter by now, disgusting bullying brat. I hope Sansa doesn't marry him. Maybe they'll cancel the Arranged Marriage now that her sister's wolf tried to bit his arm off. But I don't have much hope. And the bodyguard, or whatever, murdered the butcher's boy? Wow. And what was up with killing Lady, who wasn't even there? Is Cersei God Save Us from the Queen! or what?

(On a side note, people's reactions to direwolves are especially amusing, given that they are supposedly an extinct species: "A direwolf! Oh, dear! What is it doing here?")

The good news is that Bran apparently lives. He woke up and named his wolf, which is very heartwarming and all. Well, at least I think these are good news. For some reason I have this fear that all the people I dislike will turn out to be the good guys, or, even more probably, that there are no clear-cut good guys.

edited 2nd Nov '12 12:03:21 PM by AnEditor

Also Jaime is awesome and I will fight anyone who says otherwise. I will admit that the first book doesn't exactly cast him in the best light, though.

edited 2nd Nov '12 12:05:49 PM by asterism

Oh my. Oh my my. Your reactions are bringing so many memories back.

Okay, I've hidden spoilers, so I don't know the first part of what you just said, but I'm glad to know there's an explanation. I'm also intrigued to know that Jaime can be viewed as awesome. He must get some serious Character Development. Didn't mean to offend your favorite character.

Cool.

*beams*

Regarding why Jaime and Cersei's affair matters (and avoiding spoilers) - Westeros is modelled on medieval European monarchies, and in such systems cheating on the king was typically treated as high treason. And punishable by death.

And even if that wasn't the case in Westeros, it could be grounds for Robert divorcing her, which would seriously damage the power of the Lannister family.

On another topic - I too love the interactions between Tyrion and Jon. They're both amazing characters.

edited 2nd Nov '12 2:44:32 PM by WarriorEowyn

In the King Arthur mythology, Guinevere is accused of cheating on the king several times, and each time her life is on the line.

It is a political matter in this series, it was political and religious in the real world.

Plus, there's the whole incest thing, which is described several times as a "sin against gods and men". Really there's quite a few reasons why cheating on the king with your brother is a bad idea.

Alright guys, why doesn't GRRM have a Twitter account? He was afraid he'd kill off all 140 characters

Heh.

(corny joke shamelessly taken from Reddit)

An Editor: Keep an eye on that body-guard.

Also, did you remember that flute player at the feast who had, like, maybe one sentence of description?

Remember that guy, he'll be important later.

edited 5th Nov '12 5:08:34 PM by ATC

Wait he actually got mentioned in the first book? I thought ASOS just made that up.

Remember EVERYONE that is described, they'll be important later.

The only person that is not important later is Patchface.

Now I'm just waiting for Weasel to turn up in some fashion. She's one the few characters that just kind of faded away inexplicably.

Patchface is lulling you into a false sense of security.

Everyone who was later used as a false identity by you-know-who will eventually turn up as part of Nymeria's pack. Including Cat.

I'm back.

Edit: Wow, this post turned out really big.

I read quite a bit. I hate that guy and his ability to make you care. I especially hate it when a character's POV ends in a cliffhanger and then you're forced to wait about 50 pages before you find out what happened to them.

Note to self: remember everyone who is introduced with minimal description and no name, because they will do something important several thousands of pages later.

Okay, so we're introduced to some Littlefinger person. He apparently got the nickname for being very small- like Thumbelina, but even smaller. He's giving me some serious Iago vibes, what with being clever and manipulative, and honestly warning people not to trust him. He was Catelyn's father's ward, which makes next to zero sense since we're told he had a father of his own who only died some years ago, leaving him a title. He also seems to be Catelyn's Unlucky Childhood Friend. Obviously still in love with her. I can't decide if he's being noble and disinterested or if he's acting on a some elaborate plot to backstab them, get rid of Ned and somehow marry Cat. Both are perfectly possible.

We also meet a creepy guy who has spies everywhere, can recite your private conversations, and probably knows what you masturbate to. Cat seems a bit scared of him.

Apparently, Cat's brilliant plan was to have the would-be murder weapon examined to find the owner. (All weapons in the series are specifically made for their owners and have pet names.) The guilty blade is examined, and the owner is... (...drumroll...) Tyrion Lannister. That seems to be the point where I'm expected to start jumping up and down, tearing my hair in excitement and cursing the name of the treacherous imp, but I hate to report that I'm still relatively unimpressed. Weapons can be stolen, lost, or copied. Tyrion seems kinder and more honest than most of the characters. He's also smart. If I sent out an assassin, I sure as hell wouldn't arm him with my one-of-a-kind, linked-to-the-owner, instantly recognisable signature weapon. It's not that I absolutely reject the possibility, but I require more proof than that.

Sansa remains blissfully unaware that she's in a deconstruction. Hey, Sansa? Joff isn't prince charming. You'd thought she would have figured that out by now after, you know, the murder of her puppy, but no, she apparently blames Arya for that. I don't want to be too hard on her, however, because she's only eleven and her life sucks. And if she does marry her betrothed, she's in for some serious Break the Cutie.

It's relatively easy to somewhat predict Sansa's future- marriage to Joffrey, severe disillusionment, more than probable abuse, possible Hidden Depths. Arya is a different case altogether. I have no idea what she's going to do. Her father allows her to swordfight, she rejects the traditional ladylike pursuits and goals that Sansa delights in... yeah, no idea whatsoever.

Arya and Sansa are now in a state of cold war, despising each other and only speaking when forced to by authority figures. Cue Ned giving Arya a lecture about the importance of family solidarity in times of hardship (which was actually pretty sound; he should have said the same things to Sansa, who seems the more diplomatic of the two, and might actually have been shamed into attempting a reconciliation). Then he allows Arya to keep the Needle, on the condition that she will not stab her sister, whatever the provocation. Arya promises she won't.

... Okay, why do I smell foreshadowing? That piece of dialogue is too... I don't know. Arya has a difficult relationship with her sister, she has a sword and she's being taught how to use it, and she gives an actual promise not to ever stab her sister, which makes me think that some day she might be tempted to break it. However, that could just be me being paranoid.

Ned also feels guilty about killing off Lady, because his children were meant to have the direwolves or whatever.

Not to sound heartless- it was an adorable wolf and everything- but the only obvious way the loss affects Sansa is that it makes her miserable for a while. It does make you apprehensive about her marriage-if it's heavily abusive, then killing off the wolf is removing the only protection she might have had.

The Wall is this immense, awe-inspiring structure at the end of the world. In the other side of the Wall lies the great big terror of whatever there is in the other side of the Wall. Noone seems to know for sure. Snarks (I don't know what that is). Grumkins (I don't know what that is, either). Direwolves.

On a side note, direwolves' supposed savagery seems to be largely an Informed Ability. Yes, characters are constantly worried about their arms getting bitten off, but we don't see it. So far, we've seen the wolves to be friendly, loyal and trainable. Summer saved Bran's life, Arya had to throw rocks at Nymeria to drive her off (Nymeria still didn't attack her), Lady went willingly to her death, and they all obey every command the children give them. Joffrey was permanently scarred, but Joffrey had attacked first, with a sword.

However, I guess Martin means the direwolves to be all adorable around the children while inspiring fear in the hearts of their enemies, or whatever.

Jon makes a really bad start at the Wall, what with hating his life and everybody. Gets cornered by four guys he unnecessarily pummeled at training. One of them unleashes hell by asking if Jon's mother was a prostitute (perhaps not even meaning it as an insult). Jon has a little My Girl Is Not a Slut fit, only with his dead mother instead of an actual girlfriend. Things get physical until the fight is stopped by one Donal Noyle. Jon then gets a lecture from the Noyle guy, who tells him that you're not better than the rest and you shouldn't be humiliating people with your superior training and it doesn't matter if it was four on one, you were the bully (I must say, I've got some objections to that last one). However, on the whole, Noyle's advice is good and he seems pretty decent. I like him.

Jon eventually fits in and becomes popular and influential. He and Tyrion get some more bonding. Jon calls him friend and Tyrion is touched. D'aw. I'll be interested to see how Jon reacts if it turns out that Tyrion really did try to off Bran.

Jon is changing. If he had any expectations of preferential treatment, he has thrown them off. He's past feeling superior to the other boys and taking offense to imaginary insults. Now he feels that these boys are his true brothers, as opposed to his half-siblings, and that he belongs to the Night's Watch more than he ever belonged to Winterfell.

I was looking forward to Bran blurting out the whole the-queen-and-her-brother scandal, but, very disappointingly, he has plot contrived selective amnesia. Oh, well.

edited 6th Nov '12 6:38:19 PM by AnEditor