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Yes to Joan and the Hellraiser duo

Velez and Edward

If we're adding another entry to The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, I've got another potential candidate; Baron Zemo.

Who is Zemo? What does he do?

Baron Zemo is a former leader of HYDRA, and one of the Big Bads of Season 1. During WW 2, Zemo attempts to unleash a deadly virus called Virus X on the Allied Forces, but was thwarted by Captain America, who in their fight, accidentally sprays Zemo with his own Virus X. This causes Zemo's mask to fuse to his face and disfigure him.

Blaming Cap for his disfigurement, Zemo plots revenge against Cap when the latter was brought out of the ice by the Avengers. Teaming up with Arnim Zola, Zemo unleashes one of Zola's experiments on the city to distract the Avengers, while Zemo goes after Cap himself. With the timely intervention of Black Panther, Zemo was thwarted again, but not without attempting to murder Cap and the Wasp with a grenade as he escapes.

Approached by the Enchantress, who was working for Loki, Zemo assembles the Masters of Evil. Defeating and capturing the Avengers one by one, Zemo lets a captured Captain America live long enough to suffer, by forcing him to watch as Zemo prepares to execute his teammates.

In his next scheme, Zemo and the Enchantress use the Asgardian relics the Norn Stones to open portals from each of the Nine Realms. There, Loki's armies from each realm will invade and conquer Earth. However, Zemo betrays the Enchantress and places one of Red Skull's mind control collars on her, planning to take control of the invading forces and conquer Earth for himself. At the same time, Zemo prepares to execute a captured Thor with an enchanted blade, taking sadistic glee at the prospect of killing a god.

When this scheme was also thwarted, Zemo and his fellow Masters of Evil go into hiding from the Enchantress, who is looking for revenge for their betrayal (though in Zemo's defence, she intended to betray them from the start). Zemo abandons many of his allies to the Enchantress's wrath to stall time as he goes to the Avengers for protection, hoping to take advantage of Cap's goodness. Unfortunately, Cap was already replaced by a Skrull sleeper agent, so what does Zemo do? He attempts to use the power of the final Norn Stone connected to Surtur's realm, something that not even Loki was willing to do. Zemo then threatens to use its power at risk of unleashing Surtur and destroying Earth, all to save his own skin.

When the Avengers and the remaining Masters of Evil manage to weaken the Enchantress, Zemo betrays the Avengers while he attempts to finish off the powerless Enchantress, though he was stopped by Wonder Man who pulled a Heel–Face Turn at the last second.

Freudian Excuse?

None. His grudge against Cap for his disfigurement was his own fault, since it was his own virus he created. Cap merely acted out of self-defence since Zemo attempted to spray some of the virus on Steve beforehand. When a captured Steve in the present asks Zemo if revenge would satisfy him, Zemo said that he's not just satisfied seeing Cap suffer, but to conquer the world for himself regardless of whoever he has to hurt.

Heniousness? Redeeming Qualities?

As if being a Nazi wasn't bad enough, his holds a decades-long grudge against Cap drives him to murder others just to make his archenemy suffer for his disfigurement. This was shown when he threw a grenade at an unconscious Wasp out of spite after being defeated by Cap. While he often acts polite and cultured, it merely showcases his sadism and lack of empathy for others. He readily abandons his loyal teammates to their doom, and willing to risk Earth's destruction, all to save himself. When Iron Man calls him out on abandoning his team, Zemo coldly replies: "That's what a team is for, yes?" and shows concern that his teammates could give away his location rather than for their well-being. Not even the honourable Cap is willing to trust him, refusing to release Zemo from his prison when he offered to help Cap fight off Annihilus's swarm of murderous bugs.

To set the bar for how dangerous and evil he is, he's imprisoned in the Raft, where only the worst of the worst or the most dangerous prisoners were sent to.

IMO, I think Zemo could qualify.

edited 21st Jun '18 1:30:28 AM by hittheassassin

How does he stack up to Red Skull? They seem to be a similar tier resource-wise.

In the Red Skull's debut, Cap asks him if he's still doing Zemo's "dirty work". Zemo also said that he had led HYDRA while Baron Strucker was still a child. So that means that Red Skull was The Dragon to Zemo, at least before the former's debut episode.

edited 21st Jun '18 1:32:05 AM by hittheassassin

I meant Skull's onscreen actions.

I think they're just about as vile as the other. Red Skull seems more motivated by the Take Over the World shtick, while Zemo's more motivated by petty revenge.

In terms of actions, they're about equal though Skull may have a slight edge. Skull has committed physical and psychological torture on Cap's sidekick and brainwash him as his assassin. This makes it personal for Cap than it does with Zemo, since Cap at least tried to dissuade Zemo from revenge, whereas Cap went ballistic on Skull in their final fight.

Velez and Joan, good job, and leaning yes to Zemo.

Ok stupid question: I was thinking about E Ping another Hitman character, this time a nurse who’s a serial killer. The problem is that she made her murders look like accident or deaths by natural cause. There’s a large number of potential murders she may have committed, but no outright confirmation about how many of these deaths were really caused by her. I guess “May have potentially killed dozens of people” is too vague for a CM, right?

to Winter Lemarchand, Joan, Arturo Velez, Edward Leverett and Baron Zemo.

Velez, Edward, and Zemo

Winter; Hellraiser comics duo.

I'll give a slight yes for Zemo. Another one for Robin Atkin Downes, along with Solaris; Abomination & Annihilus; the voice of the Master; and Mumm-Ra.

edited 21st Jun '18 3:34:03 AM by ACW

Why does Solaris from animated adaptation of "All Star Superman" counts but Solaris from comics doesn't?

edited 21st Jun '18 4:16:07 AM by VeryVileVillian

I'm not actually sure.

Winter; joan, Hellraiser comics duo and zemo

edited 21st Jun '18 4:46:05 AM by miraculous

IIRC, because the adaptation is a standalone work, so there isn't the same issue with the heinousness standard.

Aren't the comic series was alternative universe.

Well can solaris count in DC One Million where hes the Big Bad

edited 21st Jun '18 5:23:07 AM by miraculous

Feel free to effortpost him.

I've got a question. If a candidate reward someone for their loyalty to him (like if they kill someone on his request) does this disqualify him?

edited 21st Jun '18 6:22:15 AM by VeryVileVillian

Rewarding somebody for a task is usually more pragmatic than redeeming. Rewarding people for tasks often make them stay loyal and don't leave/try to antagonize you. It's pretty common for villains, including CMs such as Dio or The Joker to pay people.

What said. That's a case-by-case thing.

BTW, this was in the Drafts. Before or after Skull?

• The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes : Baron Zemo was the former leader of HYDRA during World War II. During the war, Zemo attempted to unleash a deadly virus on the Allied forces, but was disfigured by his own virus in a skirmish against Captain America. In the present day, Zemo teamed up with Arnim Zola to get revenge on Captain America, who had just awoken from the ice. Zemo then infiltrates the Avengers mansion to get revenge on Captain America, nearly killing him and the Wasp in the process. Having failed in his revenge attempt, Zemo teams up with the Enchantress and forms the Masters of Evil. Together, they break into Avengers mansion and capture each of them one by one, with Zemo promising to Captain America that he will execute his teammates while Cap is Forced to Watch. In his next scheme, Zemo and the Enchantress use the Norn Stones to mount an invasion force on Earth, only to betray her so he could conquer Earth for himself and prepares to murder a captured Thor with sadistic glee. When the Enchantress began hunting down the Masters of Evil for their betrayal, Zemo callously abandons his teammates to their doom while going to the Avengers for protection. Confronting the Enchantress, Zemo attempts to use the last Norn Stone to save his own skin even at the risk of destroying the universe. When the Avengers manage to weaken the Enchantress, Zemo promptly betrays them and tries to finish her off himself. A self-serving sociopath, Zemo is one of the Avengers' most dangerous and certainly most diabolical foes.

I mean its been awhile since I read it but I think solaris can count there, He tries everything from releasing radiation to infect the entire solar system with cancer to trying to take the planets out of orbit and later relaseing a virus that kills millions of people and later allying with Vandal Savage to conquer both the 20th and 50th century.

E Dit : Uh order really doesnt matter, Skull came first but zemo was a main villain first.

edited 21st Jun '18 7:24:17 AM by miraculous

Should Steven Universe be added to the Never Again list? It is very unlikely it will have a CM. The nature of the show makes it nigh impossible for it to have a pure evil character.

No, it hasn't come up enough.

I'm going to give a cautious yes to Zemo. That'd make him, Loki and Skull our monsters for EMH then

I still think Yostverse!General Ross could've counted but I'm not gonna poke that bear again. Anyways if no one objects, here's Joan's entry.

• The Walking Dead: A New Frontier: Joan initially appears to be a reasonable leader in the New Frontier's leadership council, claiming to be looking out for the city of Richmond but is in fact a Control Freak and shadow dictator who is responsible for raids that she orders behind the backs on the other leaders. These raids entail and caused the sacking of multiple settlements, from shooting the places up to setting zombies loose on them, wiping out these communities and stealing supplies that the New Frontier doesn't actually need. These raids resulted in the destruction of Prescott and the murder of young Mariana Garcia. When Javi, David and their friends learn she behind the raids and expose her, Joan spin things around in order to get David and Javi arrested; if their only witness is killed Joan will accuse David of these raids. If called out for her responsibility in Mariana's death, Joan will respond with a sarcastic apology. Sentencing David to death, Joan prepares to make a big show of it and calls out Javi for a public confrontation. She reveals she also took Javi's friends Tripp and Ava hostage to force Javi to choose who to spare - also taking Gabe and Clementine at gunpoint to hasten his decision - spitefully killing whomever Javi tries to save (Tripp or Ava). When she gets called out on how this isn't the way the New Frontier does things, Joan declares she can do anything she wants. When Clint tries to take control of the situation and simply exile Javi and his people from Richmond, the only reason Joan even entertains the idea is because there is a massive herd of zombies outside the city walls.

edited 21st Jun '18 7:34:42 AM by Beast