During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lord of Hell
Gonna be giving a tentative ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Randall. Three murders and torture is pretty bad, but even with the resources argument, I don't see it sticking out enough in the RWBY universe
Randall, even taking resources into account I don't think he's heinous enough.
V
Abstain on Randall. If RWBY had a lower heinous standard, he'd probably count.
Meh on Randall even in its fanfiction-verse-thing.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Bedlam, Vierra,Pierre, Pope, Station master and Angela.
To Randall and Goblin.
I was taking a small break from this thread (I might take another soon to catch up on some novel villains for the thread), but I thought I would come back and propose another TMNT comic book villain, this one from the Archie TMNT comics, which started as an adaption of the 87 cartoon, but quickly became its own thing. I already proposed Mr. Null, who was a truly nightmarish villain for a book of such light hearted origins, who could possibly be as bad he is, the answer may surprise you:
Who is Krang? What has he done?
So this Krang starts off very similar to his 87 counterpart, the first couple of issues adaptions of episodes of that show.
However things begin to change when the comics go in there in own direction. In issue 8, the Turtles meet two aliens named Wingnut and Screwloose, who are going on a rampage in NYC. It turns out their world was invaded by Krang and Krang wiped out almost everyone on it, committing genocide against the entire planet. The Turtles are horrified and realize Krang is far more evil then they originally thought.
And Krang does this a lot, we see Shredder contacting Krang as his forces have destroyed another planet. We get see Krang's back story, when the Turtles meet another former warlord from Dimension X named Cherubae (she teleports them to the ruins of another planet Krang has destroyed). Dimension X used to full of warlords fighting each other for dominance, but a new Theocratic government was talking control of Dimension X, executing any warlord it could catch. Cherubae escaped to earth, took human form and decided to live a peaceful life. Krang however was not so willing to give up power and went to hiding, rebuilding his forces, till he was ready to begin his genocidal crusade.
Cherubae is also the guardian of the Turnstone, an artifact that grants the user god like power, Krang has been killing everyone on these planets looking for the Turnstone. Deciding Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady are worthless allies, Krang turns to Maligna, queen of an empire of insect warriors (read the Mr. Null entry for more on her). In exchange for lending him 10 of her warriors, Krang will lead Maligna to Earth (which would be bad for Earth, given what we see her and Mr. Null get up to later).
Anyway the Turtles defeat the insect warriors and Cherubae regains poessesion of the Turnstone and uses it deal with Krang, Shredder, bebop and Rocksteady. Bebop and Rocksteady are sent to a jungle planet to live out their days in peace. Shredder is sent to prison and Krang, for his crimes were the most vile, was sent to Morbus, a prison planet/toxic waste dump.
Krang spends a fair amount of time there, be moaning his fate and wanting revenge against everyone who has wronged him. Krang meets two other prisoners, Slash and Bellybomb and together they all steal a prison transport ship and escape. Krang goes to the planet Bebop and Rocksteady are on and convinces them to go back to Earth with him.
Krang interrupts a fight between Shredder and the Turtles, while the Turtles are dealing with Slash, Bombbelly knocks out Shredder and some surgery later, Krang has graphed himself on to Shredder's body, taking it over. Krang plans to use Shredder's body to kill the Turtles and then seek out there friends as well. Leo slashes Shredder's body, but that merely amuses Krang, he cannot feel any pain dealt to Shredder's body. Then Leo goes on Shredder's back and puts a sword right to Krang's head, saying he will kill Krang if Krang does not release Shredder. Krang says Leo is bluffing, his code of honor would never let him kill a living being, however Leo let's Krang know he has no respect for Krang's worthless life. Krang frees Shredder and is sent back to Morbus, where he belongs.
Is he heinous by the standards of the work?
This series has a surprisingly high standard, Mr. Null tries to wipe out the human race twice, has plenty of acts of cruelty under his belt and portrayed to be a rapist, Maligna is a genocidal insect queen, Shredder gets a few nasty moments, like using a powerful artifact to wipe out two waring armies, just because they are fighting on the spot that has another artifact he wants.
But Krang is pretty nasty here, killing billions of beings due to his sadism and power lust.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming factors?
I don't think so, at first Krang retains some of the more goofy aspects of his cartoon counterpart, like trying to watch intergalactic wrestling and getting mad when his TV cuts out, but those goofy aspects slowly go away and Krang's genocidal crimes are treated completely seriously, by the end his whiny exterior betrays the heart of a true power mad sadist.
By the time he tries to take over Shredder's body, he has none of the usual witty banter he usually has Shredder and just seems him as a means to an end.
Krang seems unable to empathize with anyone but himself, crying over his fate on Morbus and vowing revenge on everyone who wronged him, the Turtles and even Shredder himself for failing him.
I also think Krang has moral agency, he is described as a vicious brain with no heart to weigh his moral choices, but I think that is metaphor and Krang is usually presented as evil even before losing his body.
Final Verdict?
Despite being based on his 87 counterpart orginally, I think this version of Krang counts.
edited 20th Jan '18 10:35:02 AM by Overlord
Here's Reed (there, I spelt his name right the first time on this post):
- Genocyber: Dr. Kenneth Reed was an amoral research assistant to Dr. Nguyen Morgan. Arranging for Morgan and his wife to die, Kenneth takes their super powered daughters for his own research. When a detective helping the girls hides them in a hospital, Kenneth and his goons slaughter everyone in the building, gruesomely eviscerating the detective. Even as he dies, Kenneth watches with glee as the girls merge into the titular Genocyber, destroying Hong Kong and killing millions in the process.
edited 20th Jan '18 2:02:40 PM by 43110
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Goku Black
Krang
I'll Mean Krang and I shall await Lighty's verdict on the RWBY fanfic baddie, since I like reading their thoughts on such matters.
Krang
edited 20th Jan '18 10:33:48 AM by G-Editor
to Mr Bedlam, the Stationmaster, Angelina Gordon and Krang.
Call me... Del Noir...
Randall, Krang.
Krang
Randall
Goku Black
So was browsing site pages at random amd came across this in the page for Baten Kaitos for one of our CM's from there wiseman.
Blue-and-Orange Morality: Wiseman doesn't quite seem to get the morality of humans.
Not familiar with this game. So thoughts.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah thought as much. His charcter page seems to show that despite being an Eldtrich Abomination that he can understand human emotions quite well and this is just Lack Of Emphaty and sadism.
edited 20th Jan '18 1:48:49 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Misuse...
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Methinks Blue-and-Orange Morality might be one of the more misused tropes, though not as bad as GDV.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Randall. That fanfic looks like it's taken the top fandom theory about what little is known of Mercury's past and changed it just enough to create a similar level story to fit with what little is known about Emerald's past. note
edited 20th Jan '18 1:58:19 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh you have no idea man.
I've seen people use it for when a charcter is weird (Bill Cipher), a psychopath who thinks Love Is a Weakness (Davros) and characters who are loony (Junko Enoshima). None of that is Blue-and-Orange Morality as all of thoose people, know what there doing is wrong.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Have Peter and Paul from Michael Haneke's Funny Games discussed already or is there a reason that neither of them count?
There's two of them and both of them are equally sadistic and heinous. I don't remember two people being an issue (like Blados and Chalis from Golden Sun: Dark Dawn prove).
edited 20th Jan '18 2:16:33 PM by Kookosbanaani
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think they were discussed and decided not to count, but I can't remember why.
No, I don't think that was the reason.
edited 20th Jan '18 2:18:58 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
IIRC it was due to weird agency issues since they're aware they're fictional characters who exist to be horror movie villains.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Well one of them does speak directly to the audience a couple of times. They're like, in league with them as Haneke's vision in that movie is to show that some people want so see violence in a film just for the sake of it.
edited 20th Jan '18 2:45:07 PM by Kookosbanaani
What is the work?
An Emerald Unearthed is a RWBY fan fiction dedicated to the origins of Emerald Sustrai.
Who is he?
Randall Silva.
What does he do?
A smug Loan Shark, Randall went to the Sustrai family when the father of the household, Cole, wasted all of the family's cash on gambling. Randall proved himself to be a Bad Samaritan when he killed Emerald's mother when Cole failed to make his payments...the first time.
Forcing the Sustrais to pay him every month under the threat of that happening to Emerald, Randall eventually tried to recruit a twelve year old Emerald into his criminal organization when her semblance allowed her family to make money extremely quickly through robberies.
Killing Cole when he tries to defend his daughter, causing Emerald to run upstairs. When one of his thugs fails to find Emerald upstairs due to shielding herself with her semblance, Randall shoots him dead before going to check himself. When Emerald projects an image of her killing herself to get away from him, Randall responds with casual disappointment that he lost a way to make more money. Running from him is what causes years of homelessness, starvation and desperation in Emerald's life.
Reappearing in Emerald's life six years after killing her dad, Randall attempts to casually coerce her into working for him again, despite the fact that he murdered her parents. When Emerald, understandably, says no, he has one of his men strangle her into unconsciousness so he could "persuade" her.
Taking Emerald to a dark room in his office, Randall has her viciously beaten by his men until she agrees to the deal. Thankfully, Emerald is able to turn the situation around, eventually convincing his men to turn on him due to his Bad Boss tendencies, and executes Randall after having his guys beat him to a pulp.
Freudian Excuse or mitigating factors?
None, he is just a greedy scumbag.
Heinous Standard?
That’s where this gets a bit iffy. That said, he killed Emerald's parents in front of her and is the reason she was desperate enough to join Cinder. That, and he’s just a Loan Shark, none of the intelligence and resources Cinder had.
Conclusion?
I’m a bit neutral on this guy, so I’ll let you guys decide.