During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Caesar
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Pretty darn good. The first film was good, but overall the weakest, for me at least, while the second and third films are excellent crime thrillers. Highly recommended.
Still a BIT unfortunate that Johannes (3rd film baddie) doesn't count, honestly, as child drowning Satanists are generally ones on the "Keep" side of villains. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
edited 29th Mar '17 12:44:36 AM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
De Carta is a far stronger being then me.
Oh, yeah, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Pram and Dybs.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
to Pram and Dybbøl.
edited 29th Mar '17 4:31:15 AM by MGD107
Pram and Dybbol. They sound absolutely vile.
to Ditlev Pram and Ulrik Dybbøl.
@LoreDeluxe, I didn't forget the Bloom. I upvoted it in the very post where I said I was taking a break until I could see Logan.
I appreciate the accolades, folks (honestly, I was kind of expecting responses to be more along the lines of "boy, you crazy"). But frankly, after a while, I wasn't reading the EPs very thoroughly anymore. For that last Vampire Diaries one, I pretty much skimmed a few paragraphs and took it on faith that the dude was a keeper. Did my best, but like I said, I can't recommend anyone else ever do it, and I probably wouldn't do it again.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I tend to skim the really long ones in general (like yours for Vandal Savage; you had me at "causes a flood killing 2 million people" and "advising Adolf Hitler" and associating with Stalin ).
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So should I cut Diogenes, and is Jack Welker a confirmed cut? I'll take care of those, I just wanna make sure there's consensus.
For that matter, what about Sol Seraph? I'd have put in the cut request myself but I wasn't sure of the requirements (I count four cut votes).
Submit away for all the above
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And...done.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Was Jack Welker re-discussed at some point? I myself see him fitting the CM trope, since along with the cousins, he is the most vile villain in Breaking Bad. He has no Pet the Dog moments and the amount of physical and mental torture he brings to Jesse when he serves as his meth cook slave is appalling. Also, he and his gang of neo nazis go against almost every principle that real life neo nazis have (for example Jack wasn't bothered by the fact that Todd killed an innocent kid and even threatened Brock's life).
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
The Cousins also let a whole family live (the ones they stole their clothes), but no one sees that as a disqualifier. It's like the case with Voldemort, when he decides not to kill some random kid but only because he sees it as "pointless". I'd say he let Walter live because he didn't see him as a real threat which means killing him would have also been rather pointless. But he doesn't hesitate at all trying to kill him in the finale and only prolongs just to show him how badly he has treated Jesse. That's not a disqualifier there.
He doesn't seem concerned at all after Todd's death.
edited 29th Mar '17 12:59:28 PM by Kookosbanaani
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, he was brought up not too long ago, and it was determined that him letting Walter live (or something like that) was disqualifying.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jack was shown to care about Todd too. In his own way, but still, it was real.
I just did a search for Joey Venza from Someone to Watch Over Me and I don't think he was ever discussed. He probably doesn't count though. While killing his partner just because he didn't pay him back, trying to kill Claire because she saw him do it and he could go to jail (I think he kills a cop in the process too) and taking Keegan's young son hostage and threatening to kill him before getting shot dead by Keegan's wife are all bad, it's not quite enough. He's intimidating, but he fails the heinous standard above all else. Does anyone concur?
edited 29th Mar '17 12:37:49 PM by futuremoviewriter
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Shall I submit this
◊ image to the Image Links page?
- Complete Monster: Coach Kankel, as CR explains here.
- Complete Monster: Bohm, who has so far been portrayed as nothing but brutal in how he interrogates Fotis.
Both can be cut I suppose.
Weblinks Are Not Examples mixed with Zero Context Examples? Who made those edits? Obviously cut them.
Hm. Reminds me of watching a video review a while ago of Hellraiser: Inferno, where the reviewer went over all the stuff Joseph Thorne pulls and stated that he "earns his Complete Monster badge". But then right off noted that he at least cared for his family, "so he's not a Complete Monster". Couldn't tell whether or not she was familiar with the trope.
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
No idea why those we judged a cut are still up. We also judged Governor Griffon from Red Dead Revolver a cut. Could someone take care of him?
Happy with Decker's image going up.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Done and done.
Image-pickin for JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has been launched.
Okay. Since five people to Sigma, here's the post.
- Mega Man X: Sigma was once the noble leader of the Maverick Hunters until contracting the Maverick Virus. He began a Reploid uprising in order to usurp his human creators. Disappointed that X is still on the side of humans, he sics his dog, Velgaurder, on him. Rather than grieve for his fallen pet after he is destroyed by X, he congratulates him before fighting him himself. When he returns in X2, he has the X-Hunters gather Zero's parts, and if X fails to retrieve them, he will force them to fight each other. In X3, he brainwashes Dr. Doppler so that he wouldn't finish his cure for the Maverick Virus and forces him to make a new body for him. In X4, he, with the help of Magma Dragoon, frames Repliforce for the destruction of the Sky Lagoon, which killed thousands, if not millions, so that they could turn on humanity. In X's story line, he'll send a spy called Double after him and has him slaughter a group of Hunters who were in the wrong place at the wrong time before fighting X. He'll reveal to X or Zero that he plans to destroy the Earth with the Final Weapon, forcing the General to make a Heroic Sacrifice to stop him. In X5, he initiates the Eurasia space station on a collision course with Earth, killing billions, just to spread the Sigma Virus all over the world and awaken Zero's Maverick potential. In X8, he implants his DNA on New Generation Reploids, so that he could have an army of clones to destroy the Earth. Being infected with the Maverick Virus should be a Freudian Excuse, but the victims of the Virus X and Zero encounter in X5 are still lucid of their former selves and beg them to put them out of their misery. Sigma, on the other hand, is aware of the tyrant he had become and doesn't care. He claims to be a Reploid Supremacist, but he'll gladly wipe out his own kind whether they be Maverick or not to further his agenda, unless they're clones of him. Rather than a victim of a virus who lost his humanity, Sigma is a narcissistic Hypocrite who lost his inhibition.
But isn't Sigma already written up on the Complete Monster Megaman subpage? Or is it just me? 
That's his Maverick Hunter incarnation, if I believe correct. I think it's crucial, before we go with submitting Sigma, how many people downvoted him... My vote remains a no.
@kooko In the moment that Todd was killed, Jack was wounded and about to be shot in the head by Walt. Though maybe you have a point.
That said, Jesse Plemmons and Michael Bowen purportedly played their characters as caring about each other, so that factors in.
edited 29th Mar '17 3:29:44 PM by futuremoviewriter
You know Ravok, my dad told me about these films and that I should go see it in my spare time. He especially told me about the 3rd film's Big Bad. So how are these films by the way?