During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Artor, Sheol, and Qeteb.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Oracle.
Once again, Scott Dunn (2s and a no) needs to be resolved. Plus, is someone else gonna write up Lok Sat soon or am I doing it in August? As it is now, he has 6s and still nos. Topic is still open to anyone who wishes to weigh in though.
Planeswalker
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Could you link to Dunn's writeup please?
Planeswalker
Oh, I remember that guy. to him.
Wild Child
Scott Dunn.
I was browsing the video games monster page yesterday and was surprised to see Aldrich and Sully there. Never expected Dark Souls characters to get in. I mean, I thought they'd get suggested, but never accepted.
A few thoughts: It's not clear that Aldrich founded the Cathedral of the Deep or even corrupted it. Evidence suggests it existed long before him as a prison for corruption, with him eventually also being put there. At some point, the whole Cathedral was corrupted, whether or not Aldrich caused this or took advantage of it is unclear, but I believe the latter. Basically, I think that instead of saying he founded the Cathedral we should say he is The Leader or God of Evil of it due to some ambiguity.
Also, a slight Moral Agency thought on Sully: One item description, a staff from some pyromancers in Irythyll says the Profaned Flame consumed said pyro's "hearts". A bit ambiguous in whether it's literal or not, however, so I think it hardly matters.
I remember when Seath was suggested, but shot down due to Story Breadcrumbs. I haven't played Dark Souls 1, so I only know a few basic things on the Paledrake. Probably far more Offscreen Villainy with him.
Another thing that surprised me was Sanctus from Devil May Cry. I actually asked the main DMC forum if I should bring him up here which received a lukewarm reception. People thought him too generic. I disagree but it did dishearten me, though it was often on my mind to bring him up. Now I don't have to. I guess Sanctus is less interesting than Arkham, who is a unashamed Magnificent Bastard as well. Or Vergil. Who is Vergil.
Remember, this isn't a trope about quality. Listing a character doesn't mean he's an interesting villain, just that he has enough of a personality to not qualify as a Generic Doomsday Villain.
Oh, I agree. I was going to bring that up on that thread, but the discussion had moved on at that point.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Hello Ronan the Accuser.
- Scott Dunn. One of only 4 Serial Killers on that show. The other ones are Holtzmann (already a CM), Sophia Turner (who it appears MAY have cared for Castle), and Jerry Tyson (who MAY have loved Kelly and may have a Freudian Excuse). Can anyone weigh in on the latter 2? We also have a few contract killers.
- Damn, I'm starting to REALLY wonder about Phaeton now. He seems to become worse after the Automutation Syndrome kicks in, and the main page even gives him an Alas, Poor Villain moment.
- Are there enough votes for Gillies?
edited 28th Jun '16 4:31:11 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Sigh. have you seen Exo-Squad? He's a genocidal fascist before the automutation kicks in
edited 28th Jun '16 5:17:04 PM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Then shall I also cut that bit about the Alas, Poor Villain moment? Also, for OE's Draconis writeup, shall we say "he managed to avoid being overshadowed by the character based on Hitler" instead of "make the villain based on Hitler more likeable"?
And yes, actually, I did watch it (and enjoy it) when I was a kid.
Okay, bit off-topic, but am I the only one here who actually liked Ronan as a villain? People keep bringing him up as a stock example of a not-quite-GDV, but while he wasn't a deep villain, I thought he was a menacing and bombastic one who actually felt more true to comics (in the general sense, that is, as his comics counterpart isn't that bad a guy anymore) than several other MCU villains.
edited 28th Jun '16 5:42:44 PM by nrjxll
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Menacing? Sure. But he had like no personality. And for hamminess, gotta go with Weaving's Skull.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I couldn't stand him. He bored me to tears, and that's on top of having almost nothing in common with his comic counterpart.
If any MCU villain was super-boring IMO, it was Weaving's Skull.
Which is such a shame. Weaving is a fantastic actor and the Skull is a menacing, terrifying villain on paper.
I don't view deviation from the comics as a bad thing, honestly. Ronan fit the part of what they needed there, and he wasn't that far off from Ronan's original, far more brutal characterization in the Kree-Skrull conflict and the aftermath. Ronan as an anti-hero is a relatively new thing.
ACW, just leave Phaeton be for now. You don't need to police other tropes for this cleanup unless it's blatant misuse
edited 28th Jun '16 5:56:57 PM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
First off, for boring MCU villains, try Malekith. Second, I can't comment on Ronan's comic version (seeing as how I never read the comic), but regardless, GOTG (and the other MCU movies) can stand on their own without a strong villain. It's not like, say, The Dark Knight, which would have been NOWHERE near as good without Ledger's performance as Joker. ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Holy shit, I had not heard that. 
edited 28th Jun '16 6:07:50 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'll admit I was kind of disappointed that those rumors he faked his death for the Oscar publicity turned out to be false...
Caesar
'Yes' to PhiSat's latest 3 baddies. All wicked creeps in their own special ways.
I'll reiterate that the only MCU villain I find myself supremely bored with is Malekith. The others are, IMO, serviceable (Ronan; Whiplash; Killian) to amazing (Loki; Zemo; Kilgrave; Kingpin).
As for Weaving's!Red Skull, my opinion is that he was pretty good with what the character had to work with, but that he could have been alot better, especially if they focused a bit more on the "Nazi" aspect of his personality, rather than the "megalomaniac" aspect. After all, megalomaniacal supervillains are a dime a dozen. But an honest-to-goodnes NAZI supervillain? Don't see many of those.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@MiraiYuji: I take it no one's read that story. Feel free to have a go at it.
Also PhiSat trio villains. ......So Love killed Qeteb. Clearly not symbolic. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
edited 28th Jun '16 6:43:59 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
to Scott Dunn. After him, Holtzman, and LokSat, I don't think there are any other possible CMs from Castle aside from what ACW mentioned.
I actually liked Ronan. He fills the role he was meant to in the film. The intimidation factor and over-the-top performance really made him work for me. I've said it before, though, and I'll say it again, Malekith was a massive waste of an character.
Before I forget, on the Live-Action TV page, Tousei Kaneshiro is listed twice, as an individual entry, and under the GARO subheading.
edited 28th Jun '16 7:12:47 PM by DeCarta
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
It was already closed.
Why so serious?