During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I don't mind mind watchlists, but I don't feel the need to have one.
I'm only watching two characters right now (Prospero and Zoom), so it's not much of a list, but if I come across anybody else, I have no problem proposing them. Personally, I have nothing against watchlists.
@Beast, I doubt Darhk will prove to be a CM (he's shown some standards, and his mission statement sounds like he might be a Well-Intentioned Extremist), but it's early yet. I agree with ACW about Galavan; even a proto-Joker is tough to beat or even match for a heinous standard. On a similar note, Vandal Savage is due to turn up in next week's episodes of Arrow and The Flash, so he'll likely be one to watch, especially once Legends of Tomorrow premieres in the new year.
edited 25th Nov '15 5:00:53 PM by DeCarta
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@Scraggle: Jar Jar Binks as a CM. Huh.
........Ideas are forming. 
Well I will wait for the effortpost to fill in the details, but I wouldn't worry about Theo competeing with Jerome, seeing as the have a lot to the same blood on eachothers hands. Also, I know this most likely won't mean anything, but there are some moments where I can't help but notice Theo wearing a purple suit... especially when he kills Jerome.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Hey, seeing as we have Ryan from Line of Duty as CM, have we done a vote for his boss, Tommy?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
A fair point. I'm on the verge of completely giving up on Gotham, anyway. I see the appeal for others, but it's losing what little it had for me.
edited 25th Nov '15 5:26:46 PM by DeCarta
A total has-been.
A bit off-topic, but I just learned that in the canon of The Lion Guard, Scar mass murdered his own kind (who were also his own comrades that he was in charge of leading) even prior to killing Mufasa years later. Yikes.
Makes me glad we reconsidered him for this trope.
edited 25th Nov '15 6:27:57 PM by ANewMan
Caesar
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Freely
I see zero problems with having a watchlist or informing others of the contents of said watchlists.
Also, will it be OK with everyone if I do the inevitable effort post for Kilgrave on December 4th? If one of you was particularly set on doing it, that's fine, I'll back off, but otherwise I'll gladly do it.
edited 25th Nov '15 6:52:49 PM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
The Disney Junior series?
Lizzid people!
Jar Jar as a CM? This is exactly the reason why the CM pages are locked: MISUSE. And labeling Jar Jar as a CM just because you dislike him goes far beyond the misuse that got the CM pages locked in the first place. In fact, he who labels Jar Jar as a CM isn't even trying.
@ACW: Kaima created the thing that made Mori into a rapist cannibal (sounds like something out of a bad MLP fanfic doesn't it?) and subsequently merged with it and Mori into an Eldritch abomination that does all those horrible deeds. So really, Kaima is just as responsible as Mori for all those deeds and is more or less the Bigger Bad.
And Ryan, he was joking. Everyone needs an excuse to think Jar Jar and Scrappy are the spawns of Satan besides their current deeds. He was only saying that because Jar Jar is a Scrappy and someone might hate him enough to add him.
Also I'm not trying to break the two week rule or anything but does Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon have any examples? Anyone gotten that far to verify?
Also not to sound rude or anything but Lion Guard being a bad MLP ripoff kind of makes me not trust any of the information from it or its canon. For all we know that could be non canon.
edited 25th Nov '15 11:01:48 PM by Klavice
Lizzid people!
That, and considering the insane fan theories circulating on the internet.
RE: Jar Jar. Yah, hahahahaahhaha no. Anyone who actually believes this theory as anything more than a joke needs a reality check.
As far as Recca goes...Magensha doesn't count. He doesn't really get up to much besides. The thing about the series is it's dark. Very, very dark, and very difficult for villains to qualify as so many are so monstrous. Koran Mori is the worst of the lot by a good amount, and Mokuren and Kaima barely make the cut.
If anyone else counts, it'd be Sokakusai, a Serial Killer who traps women in the urn on his back which has its own dimension within, where the women there die and become part of his collection. However, Mori sets a heinous standard that's enormously high, and Kaima and Mokuren keep it so the difficulty at counting is...extreme.
For the uninformed, Recca is a series about a young man named Recca Hanabishi who wants to be a ninja. He and his friends discover relics of the past with special powers called Madogu and Reca learns he's actually from feudal Japan, sent through time to the present day Japan when his ninja clan, the Hokage, were destroyed. His elder half-brother, Kurei, was also sent ahead and is obsessed with destroying Recca and claiming the leadership of the Hokage. Kurei was raised by a rich psycho named Koran Mori who is seeking a particularly deadly Madogu to become immortal.
Even before he's mutated, Mori is a sadistic nutjob who compels Kurei's loyalty by keeping Mori's own wife (Kurei's adoptive mom) with a bomb inside her and threatens to detonate it if Kurei ever disobeys him. He puts together death squads of the worst psychotics in the world and gives them free rein over what they want, and after becoming immortal, he finds himself mutated into a monster that rapes and devours young women.
edited 25th Nov '15 9:20:11 PM by Lightysnake
A total has-been.
Also not to sound rude of anything but Lion Guard being a bad MLP ripoff kind of makes me not trust any of the information from it or its canon. For all we know that could be non canon.
I think it's as canon to the original film as the musical, the DTV Sequels, or Timon and Pumbaa were, which means it's in it's own little parallel universe. I was just bringing up Scar because I'd say him being a villain capable of having done such a thing, even in a Disney Junior show, says a lot about him in regards to this trope.
Recca is probably one of the darkest shounen series in existence (at least the Manga is, the anime dummied out the ending where Mori's depravity really starts to shine) and yeah Sokakusei is worseen than Magensha, I forgot that most of Magensha's crimes were implied or off screen. Sokakusei on the other hand we see most of his crimes, but Mor I being the only on screen rapist in the show coupled with his cannibalism thanks to a Madogu (basically a jewel or object that gives untold power to its wielder) called the Tendo Jikan (sp?). Kaima qualifies because he made the thing and most of Mori's crimes are because of that Madogu, he was horrible before but by that point there was no going back for him. He had blasted over the Moral Event Horizon with no chance of return. If this were a lighter shounen series then maybe Sokakusei could qualify. But as Lighty said: nearly everyone who's not an anti villain or protagonist in the series is a psychotic mass murderer. In order to be a monster in it you'd have to go the extra mile. Mokuren qualifies because he gets off to screams and murders people sadistically.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Damn, I may have to put Recca on my read list. It's only 30+ volumes, so it won't take forever to read. So basically, we've got the Big Bad, the guy who basically made him like that, and a Serial Killer who counts as he Loves the Sound of Screaming?
edited 25th Nov '15 11:47:50 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
if a certain character from Jessica Jones is approved, do you think the Marvel cinematic universe sould have its page?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Probably. It'll make 5, and there'll likely be more. I even know what quote to use (spoken about Red Skull):
"He thinks that he is a god and he is willing to blow up half the world to prove it."
edited 26th Nov '15 5:39:00 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
On Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon... that would be a no. Every evil NPC is under the influence of the Dark Matter, and that itself is Made of Evil.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dammmit, I think you convinced me. I'm gonna try Flame of Recca, after I get caught up with Empowered and Wolfsmund. Plus I still have the last book of Department 19, as well as Chew issues 51 on.
edited 26th Nov '15 7:33:14 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@Lighty: Now now, some people who are hated by the fans can still be C Ms in some people's eyes. 
But in all seriousness, we were just joking, Ryan. Jar Jar's too friendly (albeit, annoying) to be a CM anyway, if for some reason we ever discuss him.
Unless someone makes a fanfic where Jar Jar gets a case of Ron the Death Eater, and so on and so forth, etc., etc...
edited 26th Nov '15 10:34:12 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
A total has-been.
Trust us, we will never end up seriously discussing Jar Jar. No matter what gets done with him in canon or fanon works, the character is simply in an entirely different universe from the nature of this trope.
...I thought it was clear Scraggle was making a joke.
EDIT: Due to the character limit, I will just make my whole watchlist one post.
edited 25th Nov '15 3:23:08 PM by DemonDuckofDoom