During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I have a hell of a proposal. Louis "Lou" Bloom from the film Nightcrawler that I'll be effortposting soon
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Seath. He gets almost no characterization.
Louis Bloom in the film, is a charming young man who becomes a 'Nightcrawler,' a term for a reporter who prowls around the night filming the happenings there. In the film's first scene Lou is stealing from a scrapyard, when he's located by a security guard. Lou acts friendly and disarming...but promptly attacks the man and possibly kills him to steal and sell his watch. When he acquires a taste for reporting, Lou gets in on the seediest, most exploitative reporting he can: filming gory demises, people dying on stretchers and the like.
When Lou's footage becomes a sensation at the news station he sells to, Lou blackmails the station head, Nina, into sleeping with him because he knows how invaluable he's become. Afterward, Lou gets nasty enough to sabotage a rival's van, so the van crashes and Lou can film him dying on a stretcher.
Towards the end of the film, Lou films a supposed 'home invasion' to do a story on crime creeping into the suburbs. He conceals the fact it's just gang violence, and withholds the identity of the perpetrators...until he tracks them down and alerts the police to their location anonymously so he can film the resulting confrontation and see cops and criminals get killed. He takes off with his partner Rick in the car and witnesses the cops and criminals crash...Lou informs Rick that the killer in his vehicle is dead and to get filming...only for it to be revealed the man is alive and armed, and shoots Rick dead. As Rick dies, Lou coldly informs he he's 'fired,' and he can't trust him. The reason for this? Rick was asking for a bigger cut of profits Lou was withholding from him.
Lou receives no punishment and at film's end he is sending out interns to expand his business, promising them he'll never 'ask them to do anything I wouldn't do myself."
Lou wears the mask of a pleasant fellow, but there's nothing there. He's a genuine sociopath, barely seeing people as anything but tools or objects. It becomes very obvious that his pleasant facade is just a mask to cover up something genuinely dark and monstrous.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Louis Bloom.
Someone added Shredder as a CM to a episode recap of the 2012 TMNT cartoon. I think we established that Shredder is a huge Jerkass in that series, but his love for Karai prevents him from being a total monster.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/TeenageMutantNinjaTurtles2012S3E9ReturnToNewYork
However Kraang Prime seems intent on destroying the human race, so she may count, but we have not seen a nice Kraang yet and we still do not know her final end game. If every Kraang is Always Chaotic Evil, it might be hard to count her I guess. But her story is not over and she could still be revealed as a CM by the end of the story or be given a quality that disqualifies her.
Also it looks like Purple Man will appear in the Jessica Jones series, he could be a possible contender as MCU monster, if he is anything like his comic book counter part:
I would suggest John Manuelito from Alexandra Quick. In a series fraught with Gray-and-Grey Morality, Manuelito is the only villain who is a blatant, unrepentant sadist without ANY standards or redeeming moments. He keeps human skins for Chrissake!!
edited 27th Jan '15 12:34:28 AM by Lunacorva
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Correct on Shredder. That needs to be removed.
As for Kraang Prime, gotta wait and see what happens overall.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Bloom: How many murders does he actually commit? And Jake Gyllenhaal as a CM? That's a surprise.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Unsure on Louis Bloom. He sounds like a giant sleaze who firmly believes in If It Bleeds, It Leads, but apart from the one murder at the end it sounds like he doesn't make any of the "bleeding" happen himself.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
^ Haven't seen the movie, but I have pretty much the same doubts on Bloom. It seems like he does cross the line by staging some of them, but the first and second such incidents sound like he's setting up the circumstances more than committing the actual deed, which leaves me doubtful how much this should be attributed purely to him. Isn't this why Daniel Longdale and Dino Velvet from 8mm were cut over Machine?
Here's a new write-up for Quentin.
- Cube: Quentin is one of several people who are mysteriously trapped inside a giant cubical maze which is composed of smaller cubical rooms, some of which are booby-trapped. He initially presents himself as a levelheaded leader and assists in navigating the group to the maze's outer edge, but is slowly revealed to be a cruel, violent man who proves to be a bigger threat to the group's survival than the deadly maze itself. He drops Holloway to her death merely for disliking her, then lies about it to the others. He tries to rape Leaven not soon after. He's stopped in time by Worth, for which Quentin savagely beats him. When the others finally try to leave him behind for what he did, he finds a way back to them at the exit room. He quickly stabs Leaven to death, fatally wounds Worth, and prepares to do the same to the mentally disabled Kazan.
edited 27th Jan '15 7:00:20 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Giving a to Bloom. He sounds bad enough, and I don't see any disqualifying factors. Looked him up on the Villains Wiki, and saw he was labled an Anti-Hero, but I think it meant to say Villain Protagonist.
On another note, what happened to the talks of making a CM page for the Buffy franchise ? I heard talks and suggestions for it, and there are thus far six CM's in the Buffyverse, but when it was brought up it didn't seem to go anywhere.
edited 27th Jan '15 8:34:23 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, probably not worth it. I mean, I'd not be opposed it, but...As for 8mm, wouldn't procuring the "talent" cause someone to count?
Bloom, minus the sexual extortion (Which I think we can all label rape):
Possibly murders a security guard for his watch
Sabotages a newsvan to kill the inhabitants so he can film his rival dying on a stretcher
Leads the police into an area where a pitched shootout will happen, getting police and criminals alike killed (and putting civilian lives at risk) so he can film the confrontation
Gets Rick killed quite intentionally.
Lou kills...quite a few people. Setting these situations up make him culpable in every sense of the word. And he rapes someone.
edited 27th Jan '15 10:23:52 AM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, I may change my vote to a . Does he mean to kill the inhabitants of the newsvan, or is it accidental?
He didn't sabotage the breaks for their health. He wanted shots of his rival dying.
Also, he creates a shootout in a diner. Civilians do get killed there
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Creates? Hmm, sounds like he does more than just instigate and film. I'll give a
Earlier when I asked of a potential Buffyverse page, I was wondering - why did we cut Lothos from the movie again ? I am not asking to re-evaluate, I'm just wondering. I think it was because he was your standard vampire master, but I'd have to re-watch the movie.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
That'd be the reason.
Thinking about seeing The Boy Next Door. Keep you guys posted if there's an example. Unless someone here already seen it.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
With the elaboration I could vote on Louis. He sort of reminds me of Elliot Carver with much fewer resources.
Doesn't even like this username
I'll also give Bloom a .
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Do we have a trope for that sort of character, by the way? The evil newsman who makes the news happen?
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Not as far as I know. Might be worth YKTTW'ing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Might be Too Rare To Trope... then again, I can think of one and a half examples off the top of my head, plus Bloom, so maybe not. for Bloom.
Lost in Space
Didn't we assign Elliot Carver from Tomorrow Never Dies a CM? That was his thing. And I'm sure there are more than two examples in all of media. To the Trope Mobile! I mean YKTTW.
edited 27th Jan '15 1:08:34 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
edited 26th Jan '15 7:03:48 PM by AquaRegia