Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Milady writeup mark one for your delectation:

• The mysterious, murderous Femme Fatale Milady de Winter, The Heavy of The Three Musketeers, is one of the top agents of the Visionary Villain Cardinal Richelieu in his campaign to strengthen France and free it of foreign influence, but shares none of her employer's lofty ideals. Instead, she uses her position, resources, and quasi-supernatural beauty and charisma to indulge her limitless appetites for money, power, and indiscriminate, disproportionate revenge on anyone who gets on her bad side. Ever since her humble origins as a larcenous nun, she's targeted and seduced any sufficiently-useful man she comes across, destroying those who reject her and either killing or abandoning anyone unlucky enough to become her thrall as soon as they're no longer valuable. Her steadily-escalating battle with The Hero, d'Artagnan, brings out all her worst excesses, as she first tries to enlist him to kill her brother-in-law for his inheritance and a young noble for apparently turning her advances down, then, after he humiliates her, repeatedly attempts to kill him with zero regard for collateral damage, endangering and killing several innocents along the way, and finally murders his Love Interest as Revenge by Proxy whilst pretending to be her dearest friend.

edited 22nd Aug '14 12:21:16 PM by Iaculus

It should be The Three Musketeers. You need to fix the link.

edited 22nd Aug '14 11:25:40 AM by AustinDR

Needs a linkfix, though.

For anyone wondering about Film!Senator Roarke, I'd vote no because he truly seemed to love Junior this time around, not just as a means to a legacy. He even admits to Nancy that he realized Junior wasn't presidential material but that he's gonna kill her anyway because, "He was my son." This is especially potent as he kills his other bastard son while joking about it.

OE, you saw the movie? How is it? And how much do we see of Eva Green?

Permission to request The Rake writeup?

#29511: Great, I'll add it to the YMMV and make an edit request.

Probably should get more votes first.

Hi,

I'm sceptical of having Shan Yu from Mulan listed as a complete monster in the Complete Monster Page, as he seems to have a measure of respect towards his underlings.

edited 22nd Aug '14 12:40:09 PM by Hawaii_Knut

Affirmative.

Since when did he ever express any affection for his underlings?

Shan Yu has been discussed at length. He's never shown to think of his army as anything more than a tool for his ambition.

I guess she was thinking about that whole "bonding over evil" thing. Also, was there ever any talk to put Shan-Yu under the "Never Again" list, since he's definitely a CM?

I was thinking about this for a bit. Wether they were viewed as men or tools was uncertain too me. But if it's already discussed, I'll pass.

Korra season 3 is over. Without spoilers, not a single villain this year counts.

Alright, I'll concede on Danganronpa. I've seen how long you've been on this thread, and you'd probably know better. And the sequel will probably shed more light on it, anyway.

There is a nominee I'd like to propose for City of Heroes: Lord Recluse.

At first, I thought the most heinous things he did was the dystopian future in the hardest team mission in the game, and being Westin Phipp's boss.

Then I remembered the old novel I bought, where he killed a good friend, who was trying to find him, simply because he wanted a fresh start; killed his father and a close family friend, just to lure Statesman back to his home city in order to take out a rival crime boss; watched as a vocal supporter of him was brutally murdered for standing up for him, just to see what kind of enemy he was dealing with; and had planned to kill his sister, although I can't remember if that was because she outlived her usefulness, or because she fell in love with Statesman, and he felt that was betrayal.

And then there's Project Destiny, where he gathers together as many villains as possible in hopes of them helping him in his quest for global domination, and killing them off after serving their purpose, despite the fact that it's quite likely that doing so will lead to a global war that kills off everybody.

edited 22nd Aug '14 4:42:37 PM by ekimmak

Hey, the length of my stay in the thread should be irrelevant, the whole point of this thread is to discuss examples over to get the best result. I'm more than happy for you to keep presenting arguments, both for Junko and whoever turns up in the sequel (just no spoilers until everyone who is going to play it gets a chance to).

Ekimmak: Length in this thread is irrelevant. I disagreed with Shaoken plenty when I showed up, and he was already a vet. Sometimes his arguments won, sometimes mine did. Quality is what we look at, not who has the most pull. you seem like a good, knwoeldgable sort, so I'd like you to stick around. We enjoy people like you participating.

I admit what sells me on Junko is the fact her insanity (from what I'm told) is played in such a way that she has no real grasp on reality or the ability to be good, unlike the Joker. By all means, if you think Shaoken's wrong, present an argument and let us vote on that. If it's an argument we haven't heard before, it could definitely change our minds.

How bad is the heinous standard in City Of Heroes btw?

edited 22nd Aug '14 4:43:19 PM by Lightysnake

Well, I did notice a few things in your original post that didn't seem right, but that was more nitpicking (Monokuma didn't reveal "I'll kill the blackened if they're discovered, or everybody else if they aren't" until after the first murder. And according to supplementary material, it was in fact an accidental murder, implausible as that may seem.)

On one hand, when asked about the calamity, Genocide Jack flat out says "Yep, that happened. Even I felt faint at seeing that stuff." The problem with that is, although we see a police case file on Genocide Jack's murders, and looking at the right computer graphic will show she's carved a tally into her own skin, there's a lot less information on the Most Despair Inducing Event in History.

So, I just derailed my own argument into "Yes. Let's wait for the sequel."

Edit: Split the posts for better coherence.

edited 22nd Aug '14 5:01:53 PM by ekimmak

I see it. It seems bad, but I need to know how bad the villains usually are (the 'heinous standard'. a CM has to stand out)

Let me see. There's a gang whose initiation is "Kill someone, then wear their skull for a mask". A circus whose ringmaster feasts on human souls for sustenance. A black ops group that seeks to dominate all metahumans, be it through legal laws, blackmail, or mind control. And yet, the two major superpowers that I remember were Arachnos (Lord Recluses' personal army) and Nemesis (His criminal rival from the novel). The reason I wouldn't recommend Nemesis is that, even from the same mission giver, his characterization is all over the place.

Westin Phipps, I'm reluctantly agreeing with your decision to cut him, but that's only because he never actually did anything himself. He came pretty close though, given how much malicious pleasure he got out of people's suffering.

"Oh, poor little Francine Primm. I'm going to get every minute of her destruction recorded. Hmmm... I think I might even leak it out around the isles. Seeing the horrors visited on that girl should crush people's spirits all the more, and keep the next one like her away for some time. "

"I had a young mother bring her little children to me in tears. Oh, I tell you, it took all the control I had to stop myself from laughing."

Well, from what you're telling me, given this guy nearly wipes out all life on earth, it seems he could be a solid keep.

Unfortunately, we have a lot of people who would qualify if they ever did anything.

Ok, in comparison.

If memory serves, the most heinous villains were in the final ten levels of the game.

There was Nemesis, who I've already mentioned.

There was Countess Crey, the head of a scientific corporation. Crey Industries was about cutting as many corners as possible, and getting Karma Houdini Free Passes from the courts and the press. She ha a sympathetic backstory, though, and the end of her arc was a bit sympathetic.

The Malta Operatives didn't have a fixed leader, but as a group, they were pretty unpleasant. They planned to start a world war over poorly collected intel. And it may not have been the first time.

Knives of Artemis, cut immediately. They're a group, no fixed leader, and technically, they don't even do anything themselves. They're mercenaries, so it's whoever pays them that decides their actions.

Mot, the God of Death and ruler of the Banished Pantheon. Pretty sure being a force of nature cuts him.

Oh, yeah, and Recluse also arranges to have his granddaughter beaten almost to death, simply to goad Statesman and his superhero team into a fight. To prove a point.

Killing people is common in Paragon City. I think what makes him such a complete monster is what he kills people for.

Edit: Actually, I've gotten kind of confused now. Can you tell me what it is that I'm not being clear on, so I can go hunting through Paragon Wiki or my book collection on what could confirm his status?

edited 22nd Aug '14 6:03:46 PM by ekimmak

I admit what sells me on Junko is the fact her insanity (from what I'm told) is played in such a way that she has no real grasp on reality or the ability to be good, unlike the Joker.

Junko's insanity is less like Joker's and more like Dissidia Kefka's: he has a fetish for destruction and thinks that creation is pointless if everything gets destroyed anyway, whereas Junko has that but replace "destruction" with "despair" and "creation" with "hope." The Joker-esque thing about her is her ability to slide to different levels of insanity on a whim (through her personas such as Monokuma's) and the twisted sense of humor she has in regards to executions.

edited 22nd Aug '14 5:46:54 PM by AnewMan

I vaguely recall Lord Recluse having some redeeming qualities, actually. Have to look him up on the wiki to be sure.