The various FanficIdeas/ pages

Spinning off from This ATT thread at the request of Septimus Heap. TL;DL, user Eviler Than Thou created Sandbox.Fanfic Ideas and all the subpages for it. It's Exactly What It Says on the Tin, a collection of fanfic ideas from users that don't/can't put them into a work. However, all of the subpages appear in FanficIdeas/, making it seem like a legitimate thing when it isn't, at least not currently.

There's a lot of work put into the idea write-ups, so it doesn't seem fair to outright cut them; since it fits perfectly in there already, why don't we make it Just for Fun?

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Aug 18th 2020 at 8:19:40 AM

Let's ping ~Eviler Than Thou for this. I don't agree with putting them in Just for Fun for the reasons I gave in Ask The Tropers (basically: These are not "just for fun" pages, they serve a definitive purpose).

I am undecided on whether to cut them as out of scope or approve of their existence as potentially in scope.

Well, if my opinion has anything to do with it, they are grotesquely out of scope and should be nuked with extreme prejudice.

TV Tropes is not for original writing. Stop trying to shoehorn it in, folks.

I agree with Fighteer. If people absolutely must make notes here, they can use their personal sandboxes

At least keep them in the Sandbox/ namespace. Fanfic Ideas Anime And Manga, for example.

Definitely out of scope. Kill em off.

I added this as a joke on FanficIdeas.Video Games in its dying moments:

• Cream the Rabbit bakes cookies for everyone, including Doctor Eggman and Mephiles.

We could make a forum somewhere to pitch and claim fanfic ideas. I don't think we need a trope or JFF page for it when Fanfic Fuel exists for more universal fanfic prompts, and there's many blogs offsite that serve the purpose of fanfic prompts.

I meant forum thread, so yeah, you could put it there. (Not used to forums outside of the wiki section.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 18th 2020 at 11:42:13 AM

We have Writer's Block already. A "Fanfic ideas" thread would be entirely in keeping with that subforum's purpose.

Just found out about the discussion. Not sure what to add. I thought this made a good idea at the time - using Video Ideas as a template for "throw an idea out there and let someone else make it real" - and I would prefer not cutting it without a second thought, but if I'm outvoted than that's that.

Plus, I thought the Sandbox section was created specifically to mess with the outside of the rest of the wiki without getting it marked against you.

Sandbox.Video Ideas is for ideas to improve the wiki, not to cure your writer's block.

Sandbox is not a namespace where you can put rules-violating content because it's "not official". Sandbox is a place to draft content that will go into real articles.

So... does that mean Video Ideas will be changed because it has the Sandbox/ namespace, or is that the exception?

I'm a little leery of that use. It would actually go better in Administrivia, since we have things like Needs an Index and other things captured under Needs Wiki Magic Love... although some of them are in Main and should be moved.

A lot of Sandboxes probably do fit better in Administrivia, yeah; though a lot of them are made for behind-the-scenes work, like wick checks or cleanup projects, rather than as policy pages or drafting pages.

In general though, yeah, they're for behind-the-scenes / drafting work.

Right, a Sandbox page is inherently for temporary work. This can be drafting an article (or edits to an article), creating a wick check for a TRS topic, maintaining a list of work for a short-term project, and so on. It is not a suggestion box, especially if the thing it suggests is against our rules.

Alright. So if the Sandbox namespace won't work, there are two other options: Make it a Just for Fun page, or delete it.

My vote is the Just for Fun page, but I'm biased.

A third was suggested; forum thread.

Given how massive Fanfic Ideas is in its current state, would a forum thread be enough?

Putting it all in a forum thread would make it feel very cluttered, unless we start from scratch.

Again, what's the point of these lists? I get the impression that people are taking the attitude that, "Well, we have them, so we have to keep them, because otherwise we wouldn't have them." That's not a justification. They must serve a purpose, and they don't... especially if people are creating subpages in unapproved namespaces.

"I put a lot of work into this" is similarly not a justification. You could put a "lot of effort" into building a tower of half-eaten apple cores in your bedroom, but your parents will still throw it in the garbage before it attracts flies.

There are two places I could see this living. Just for Fun is one of them, although I continue to contest the notion that we can use that as a place to throw all the "breaks the rules but I like it" stuff. The other is Darth Wiki, which has a lot of rather hilarious list articles. It's also the home for Unpublished Works, and you can't get much more unpublished than a list of ideas that nobody's used yet.

Here's my compromise, then. Create something like DarthWiki.Fanfic Ideas, then if you really need subpages, split it within the same namespace (e.g. DarthWiki.Fanfic Ideas 1, DarthWiki.Fanfic Ideas 2, etc.).

I, personally, want to keep them because they're... well, fun. It's interesting reading them, and I've found a few from works I have no interest/knowledge in that sound seriously intriguing (like "Izuku has a Quirk that permanently changes someone else's Quirk upon physical contact with them, or "Nick and Judy are put on a case of repeated major theft, the culprit of which is Sly Cooper"). They're just fun to read and could genuinely inspire someone to write a fanfic based of the idea; it's actually similar to List of Shows That Need Summary in that regard.

Fair enough.

All of the Just for Fun pages about Show Within a Show works — most of which try to pass themselves off as actually existing and basically trope fanfic depending on how much content is actually in the SWAS — and stuff like Disney's Anne Frank or Avatar and the Airbending Fellowship of Vampire Slayers would like to say hello. FanficIdeas is at least honest in what it actually is.

I contest putting it on Darth Wiki; that would make it seem like it's just for Dark Fic/badfic/Troll Fic/bashfic/ect., while the neutral party Just for Fun would invite all types of fic.

(Sidenote, I'd do the spilt like "JustForFun/FanficIdeasAnimeAndManga, JustForFun/FanficIdeasVideoGames, ect. Makes it easier to organize.)

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Aug 19th 2020 at 9:46:45 AM

Besides, a case can be made that pages like "FanficIdeas.Anime And Manga" and "FanficIdeas.Miraculous Ladybug" could still exist if Fanfic Ideas is put on the Darth Wiki when something like Warp That Aesop can have its own sub-pages like WarpThatAesop.Anime And Manga and WarpThatAesop.Miraculous Ladybug.

Warp That Aesop doesn't do DarthWiki.Warp That Aesop 2 or 3 or 5, and one could make the same "a list isn't the same as Just For Fun" argument can be made against recreational corners of the wiki like Warp That Aesop or Paint the Hero Black (or their Lighter and Softer counterparts Sweeten That Aesop and Villain White Washing Service).

Edited by EvilerThanThou on Aug 19th 2020 at 7:38:14 AM

Honestly, I don't really see a problem with the suggestion of migrating them to a forum thread or threads. Keeping them doesn't necessarily mean keeping them in the form of a wiki page.

See, I'm not a fan of those namespaces anyway, so playing the grandfather clause on them doesn't move me. That is a larger discussion, though.

It seems we have a number of options on the table, which may call for a crowner to decide.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 19th 2020 at 11:02:39 AM