Angry babby
The edit lock is there because I'm adding that and more. 
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
So those Hypocritical Humor examples all seem invalid because Hypocrite itself relies on narrative acknowledgement. The examples you pointed out all seem like fan nitpicks.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Angry babby
I'll chip away all the unintentional examples and see if we can get rid of the subpage as a result.
EDIT: The page is still pretty long, even with legitimate examples. That's fine by me. There are pages in worse shape.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 12:56:20 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
kiby :]
Also, ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
what's your stance on the Wicker Man (2006) example in the Fanservice section? To me it's a clear example of Fan Disservice, but it wouldn't hurt to see your opinion on the matter.
Edited by ATricksterArtist on Jul 4th 2020 at 12:43:05 PM
(Don't) take me home.
Angry babby
His exact words in the scene are, "My views always seem to go up whenever I'm in pain." So I guess it counts as some sort of fanservice. Though the tangent about what he does to Tamara is irrelevant.
Does the trope state it has to be blatantly sexual, and not just pandering to a masochism fetish?
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 12:50:31 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
kiby :]
The trope page for Fanservice says that "Most fanservice is seldom explicit or graphic". So blatantly sexual content likely doesn't count.
(Don't) take me home.
Angry babby
A lot of scenes of Critic getting hurt aren't inherently sexual in nature at all. There just happens to be an audience that fetishizes his pain. However, if he includes those scenes and lampshades how they appeal to that audience, does that still count as Fanservice?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Fanservice doesn't need to be sexual, it just usually is.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
kiby :]
Hmm. Fanservice can be played with, and has an example for lampshading. I'll have to think that one through.
(Don't) take me home.
Angry babby
Alright, we'll keep the examples that reference the fetish for suffering if it's clearly pandering to that base and not just a result of Black Comedy (ie: lampshading how much people like watching Critic in pain).
I'm surprised Fanservice is objective. Didn't it used to be subjective? I guess I understand why it got changed to be more objective, given these entries...
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 2:14:07 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Angry babby
BreatherEpisode.The Nostalgia Critic feels like it shouldn't exist. While there are some heavy episodes, there aren't enough story arcs in the show for most of these examples to count. Yeah, there are low-key episodes that come after clipless reviews and sketch-heavy episodes, but that's just a consequence of the episode structure of the show- every other week is a Breather Episode because he usually only does sketch-heavy episodes once every two weeks.
What would we consider a Breather Episode under these circumstances? I think the Pluto Nash one can stay because it's lampshaded how low-effort it is because they have a huge clipless episode coming up, and it's in the spot where a more sketch-heavy episode would usually be.
There's also a misplaced To Boldly Flee example, which belongs on its own page.
On a side note, I'm amused at how the caption next to the BreatherEpisode.Web Original link to this page, which seems to take the show very seriously, refers to him as "nostalgic critic."
EDIT: Okay, let's formally review this.
- One week in February, The Critic reviewed Patch Adams and criticized it as a disrespectful, glurgey, disgustingly uncomfortable mess. The very next week, he did an episode on Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea, having fun with the adorable charm of the movie. Both of those were pretty standard reviews, plus the Ponyo episode was a relatively big one, since it was a Milestone Celebration filmed partly at a con.
- Enforced in "The Top 11 Most Awesome Movie Themes", as it becomes apparent as the list goes on that the character needed some hopeful kickass music to stave off the Despair Event Horizon that occurred a month later. ZCE.
- Part four of the Darker and Edgier To Boldly Flee, while still foreshadowing depressing stuff, was more like the "everyone's shooting and being slapsticky" feel the audience was used to from the site. Of course it ended on a downer with Snob getting kidnapped by the baddies, and only got darker from there. Belongs on To Boldly Flee.
- Aside from an awkward Weight Woe moment and plenty of bitching at actors when he shouldn't, Jurassic Park. Mostly because the skits were kept short and silly and Critic liked the film. ZCE, there's no indication that it broke up any major episodes.
- The Top 11 Adult Jokes We Never Got as Kids was released between two big reviews, the musical and cameo-laden review of Les Miserables and the much hyped up review of The Last Airbender. There's only a brief narration by the Critic at the beginning of the video. Maybe, since the episode was extremely short and even more casual than usual.
- "Top 12 Santa Clauses" is a sweet list of his favorite Santa characters, in between the episode that Doug worked 28 hours on with no sleep editing and all the Came Back Wrong-ness of Eight Crazy Nights review. Man of Steel is a big review but I don't think heavy production alone qualifies an episode as a contrast to Breather Episode, so it may need rewriting if we keep it. Eight Crazy Nights also isn't a really big review. And the list/editorial/casual review episodes almost always come in-between major reviews, so IDK if this is a stand-out.
- Face/Off is a rare example of a Wham Episode turning far lighter, as Doug had planned it to be both Tamara's introduction and Rachel's goodbye with cat fighting, a special effect with Rachel's face morphing into Tamara's and Rachel being sent to California in a box. But because he deleted the footage, the review is a lot more of giggly snarking in front of a wall and a lot less sending Rachel off. This is What Could Have Been, not this trope.
- Enforced but subverted in "Disney Afternoon". Critic sets the studio up like his childhood bedroom because he wants a nostalgia binge to escape from everything (after an episode dedicated to his crazy
), but his abuse of Malcolm and Tamara and his own sad oddness keep getting in the way. Maybe? There's not any specific continuity between these two episodes, but if it's a deliberate attempt to relax after some heavy episodes, it might count.
- Also subverted by the commercials, as both Doug and Critic confirmed they happen when Critic needs a break and Critic's always manchild excited for them, but they've always been Darker and Edgier, ranging from near Death by Despair to skits about abusive parents that are based on his own. The commercial specials may count due to the format, but not in the way this is written. It's too general, and should focus on the episodes that follow heavy reviews, like the clipless Hocus Pocus. Also the commercial specials usually don't stand out as darker than some other episodes, since they're basically clip shows that have all sorts of emotions involved, and the "abusive parents are based on his own" part is pure speculation.
- Other than from Sequel Hook and the foreshadowing scene with Critic abusing Malcolm and Tamara again, the The Swan Princess review is safe skitless riffing on the movie for two reasons. 1) The last time he bashed something girly was a disaster. 2) Food Fight was important to his Sanity Slippage (or to be more accurate, not getting money for it), and The Lorax was huge on Gratuitous Special Effects. The complaining about the Sailor Moon review is irrelevant. No context on what the abuse is foreshadowing. Also, this only comes before a "big" episode, no context on what this episode comes after, so IDK if it counts.
- After the depressing Jurassic Park III, After Earth is a lot lighter, with no storyline, no angst or fucked up jokes from Critic, Malcolm and Tamara relegated to bittier parts than usual, and Shyamalan not being a threat unlike his last two appearances. The Jurassic Park III review isn't particularly depressing, besides the "dead mom" scene and the abusive father scene, both of which are played for laughs. I don't think it's a particularly heavier episode than After Earth.
- Small Soldiers is a simple rant on a movie coming off two big crossovers (Bloodrayne with Linkara, Spoony and Snob, The Purge with Film Brain and Rob Paulsen/Maurice LaMarche), and with a scary Sequel Hook for The Princess Diaries involving Hyper Fangirl. Maybe.
- Care Bears Nutcracker only has Malcolm and Tamara appear at the beginning trying to help Critic out of his post-Christmas funk (and a quick horn joke later), and is a very short review about the very harmless Care Bears franchise. This, after Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer had Critic terrifying Malcolm and Tamara with how crazy he was, and A Christmas Story II had the return of Hyper Fangirl stalking him. Keep.
- Lampshaded in Mamma Mia!, as Malcolm and Tamara leave him at the start because nobody is going to watch him try and do a Chick Flick considering his history with girl stuff. This is also after Wham Episode The Matrix Revolutions which actually resolved a Plot Thread for once. The example may be valid, but should be rewritten because the aspect of it being a lighter episode is never lampshaded.
- Event Horizon is a basic review after To Boldly Flee-effort Mad Max: Fury Road, crossover The Smurfs and lampshaded pandering clipless review of Pixels. Keep if we edit the To Boldly Flee comparison into something more understandable.
- Ironically given how high energy clipless reviews usually are, and what the trailer promised, but The Force Awakens is just Snob and Critic watching a re-enacted version of the film. This, after the very personal, very continuity-driven, very character focus Christmas with the Kranks. The Force Awakens review was a pretty high-effort clipless, which other entries on this list have qualifies as not being breathers.
- The Adventures of Pluto Nash, sandwiched in between two gargantuan-effort reviews. It's acknowledged in-universe as well, as they all want a day off (Malcolm and Tamara to drink, Critic to get ready for a review he actually wants to do) are mad at you for wanting work that they'll half-ass. Keep.
- The Mummy in Nostalgiaween 2017 is super white wallish, even with old style running gags, which is explained by the Nerd coming in at the end to do the 2017 remake. Keep the example, change the "super white wallish" fanspeak.
- Tamara has talked about, while they love working there, big episodes or one with lots of skits need recovery time (not just for Doug but for actors too), and that’s why there might be a few less involved ones in a row. Too general of an example, but the "main sketch review, then an editorial/list/casual review, then a main sketch review, etc" show structure might be worth noting.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 5th 2020 at 4:01:59 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Angry babby
Already posted it on the NF cleanup thread, but I made a Nightmare Fuel sandbox since there's a lot to weed out of there.
Another troper pointed out some bad NF examples on the old TGWTG cleanup thread but a lot of them never got removed.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 5th 2020 at 3:55:16 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
kiby :]
Just woke up. I can help working on the NF page.
(Don't) take me home.
Angry babby
Since the pages are almost entirely misused, and have been sandboxed, should I just cutlist the Fanservice and Fan Disservice subpages now to prevent any further damage?
EDIT: Cutlisted Fanservice, I'll see if that goes through. Fan Disservice I'll keep up for now since we can transfer a lot of examples from Fanservice to that page.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 5th 2020 at 4:11:20 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Except for extreme cases, we generally do not cut a subpage that's undergoing clean-up.
Angry babby
Understood, sorry for misunderstanding, I'm new to cleanup. Plus the page isn't frequently updated anymore anyway, so the risk is pretty low.
Don't worry about it. I'd say most clean-ups do not warrant a page lock - the ones we have done are either tropes that have gotten very misused, very commonly, and now need thread approval (Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard), or the negativity on a work had gotten so out of hand in its subpages (Star Wars).
Angry babby
Oh God, I don't frequent them but I can imagine the flames in the YMMV Star Wars pages.
I do suspect that once Fanservice is cleaned up, the subpage won't be necessary, but we'll clean it out first. Most of the examples I've marked on the Sandbox as cut, keep, or move to Disservice.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 5th 2020 at 7:28:08 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Angry babby
Can I have some second opinions on the Breather Episode, Irony, and Ironic Echo subpages I reviewed so I can start cutting them down? Or any other pages with particularly glaring issues?
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 5th 2020 at 11:04:46 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Here's my assorted thoughts on the Breather Episode examples:
- The Ponyo review should be cut. It's supposed to be the 200th episode, features a lot of cameos, and is shot on location at a con. The subject matter's more light-hearted, but there's it's still a significant episode.
- The "Top 11 Movie Themes" can probably count, but the entry should be rewritten. It's a more straight-forward list compared with the crossovers, convention appearances, and the Series Fauxnale Doug planned going on at the time. The entry as it is seems like an in-character justification, which wasn't really that prevalent if I'm remembering correctly.
- The To Boldly Flee example is correct, but it should be on the film's page.
- Cut the Jurassic Park example. It's just a typical review, and the entry goes into complaining-mode about stuff Doug did.
- I actually wrote the "Top 11 Adult Jokes" entry and I think that's a perfect example. It's between two reviews that rely heavily on skits and cameos, and is very simplistic even by the Critic's usual Top 11 lists, with no commentary or outside jokes. He just lets the clips speak for themselves.
- The commercial episodes don't count. There's usually a lot of skits in them, there's dozens of ads shown in a single video, and the first one was centered around the Critic having a breakdown after being told he was a loser.
Anything else I didn't mention I either have no additional thoughts, or haven't seen those episodes.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Jul 5th 2020 at 11:26:44 AM
Angry babby
Removed everything noted as not fitting, as well as any episodes I've seen and don't consider fitting, such as the Disney Afternoon episode since it's long and is structurally similar to the commercial specials.
I also added a brief explanation of how the release structure works to the top of the page, since there basically is a Breather Episode every other week and only episodes that break that structure should really be noted.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 5th 2020 at 1:45:28 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Angry babby
As I stated before, the character pages are gonna need a cleaning. Can we consolidate Critic to one page instead of three? I feel like a lot of it is complaining and speculating/headcanoning.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Angry babby
Sorry to kind of take control of this thing, but I went over YMMV.The Nostalgia Critic. It's not as bad as I expected but I still had some thoughts on it. Numbered the bullet points, and if it gets messed up I archived the version of the page I'm working off of. I'm also open to more criticism of this page, I haven't seen every review so I may not be able to spot misuse. Resolved issues that I already edited have been crossed out.
-
Adaptation Displacement: In universe example, move to main page. - Alternate Character Interpretation: #3: sounds complainy and is a bit unclear.
#9: I don't see most people talk about this, there's not much indication in that review that he's bitter, so it sounds like a personal complaint. - Applicability: Possible misuse, bullet #2 is low on context.
- Ass Pull: #1: Possibly too complainy?
- Awesome Art: Valid example, but the "only worthwhile part" might be too complainy, even though the review is pretty infamous.
- Badass Decay: #1: Unsure.
#2: Probably misuse, troping the real actors' singing ability.#3: Unsure but leaning towards valid, since he only really Took a Level in Badass in that movie, does it count if the reboot resets him back? - Best Known for the Fanservice: #3: Too general? #6: Not really fanservice, also not sure if the consensus is on this.
- Catharsis Factor: Technically misused, but I don't know if we should deal with them until the TRS on Catharsis Factor is resolved.
- Continuity Lockout: #3: Teeters on complaining about people watching the show casually despite that being a valid audience, since the continuity on the show is only semi-consistent. #6: Belongs on To Boldly Flee's page.
- Crosses the Line Twice: #4: Might be too general?
#5: Might be too general? (I added that, my apologies). - Cry for the Devil:
#1: Critic isn't the villain of the episode. The Shining example in #2, however, is valid. -
Designated Love Interest: In-universe parody, move to main page. - Ensemble Dark Horse: #1-5: All low on context, and Rob might not even count since he's an increased presence on the site nowadays. #9: Maybe? I've never seen anybody talk much about rockstar Jesus. #12: Unsure, since she was from another show and technically not part of NC barring a few episodes. #14: Never seen anybody talk about it.
- Evil Is Sexy: #1: Not sure if the quote is enough context. #9: Unsure. Do a lot of people find Evilina sexy? Huh...
- Fanon: #1: Not sure if this is a popular take on the episode, but I guess it does indeed exist. #4: Same as above.
- Heartwarming in Hindsight: I already ran this through the Hindsight cleanup thread and cut whatever didn't seem to fit. IDK if more should go.
- Hollywood Pudgy: The context justifies a lot of the entries, but I'm still wary only because other entries outside of YMMV pages have shamed Doug for being "too skinny."
- Hype Backlash:
#1: Discussed trope, should go to main page.#2:Aversion, so it probably doesn't count. - Iron Woobie, Stoic Woobie, and The Woobie: Already ran this through Woobie cleanup. Edited some of the examples, not all.
- Just Here for Godzilla: #5: Seems like misuse, since most people don't only watch NC for the charity shout-outs.
- Memetic Badass: #1-#4: Could be consolidated into one entry on Santa Christ. #6: ZCE.
- Moral Event Horizon: Already brought it up in the MEH cleanup, but not positive about what to cut yet.
-
MST3K Mantra: In-universe, move to main page. - Never Live It Down: Ran it through the cleanup thread. Cut it down based on this feedback, IDK if more should be done.
- Offending the Creator's Own: #1: Not positive if this counts.
#4: Since Tamara is the fan and not Doug who's making the Pokemon jokes, I don't think this counts. - Opinion Myopia: #3: Confused about how the whitewashing stuff is connected to the trope.
- Overshadowed by Controversy:
#2: TRMGO is definitely not just remembered for the Demo Reel cancellation, it's remembered for bringing the Critic back.#3: Unsure, I think the rape whistle is the most popular joke from the review but I don't know how many people find it controversial. - Rewatch Bonus: #4: Low on context.
- Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: #2: A lot of Critic's talk about mistreating children isn't tied to Critic's hinted abuse, so Close to Home might be misused here. #5: Might be misuse since it's not an aesop. #6: Valid, but the weblink elaborating on the point seems unnecessary.
- Take That, Scrappy!: The examples about Critic make me unsure if he counts as scrappy.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: #5: Valid, but needs to be updated since she did return once more. #8: Unsure. #9: Cut since she did get a full appearance in the Wonder Woman review.
- Unfortunate Implications: Already ran it through the cleanup thread.
- Wangst:
#1: In-universe, move to main page. - What An Idiot: Probably misuse, will run it through the cleanup page.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 10th 2020 at 12:18:30 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I see. I'll edit my Spoony example review to mention the Fan Disservice once the lock is gone.
(Don't) take me home.