should more lgbt characters be introduced in cartoons nowadays?

as steven universe,Clarence, and loud house have proven, it's not the end of the world if LGBT characters were given notable roles in cartoons. the thing is, however, I'm not sure if it's enough for mine. sometime ago, i had an idea of something to jem in some respects, with a more sci fi edge and a male protagonist who isn't afraid to show off his femininity. this has been done before obviously, it's just that the protagonist is pan (not pan-sexual, the romantic orientation). i feel like i just can't get away with that, especially on television. then, i intend on introducing some non-binary peps here and there sooner or later.

all of these obstacles that feel aren't pitchable. "so why not make a web series?" well I'm making the web comic but I'm not sure if a web animation series would get enough traction. also, I'm not even sure if Netflix would be down with the idea. so now I'm left with is fear of if it's even marketable.

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The answer to your question is 'Yes'

Obviously taking care that their inclusion is being done respectfully not being part of some quota

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I don't think it's mandatory, but I'm always up for another LGBT character in a cartoon.

edited 29th Mar '17 8:15:09 PM by MagnusForce

"Detecting trace amounts of mental activity. Possibly a dead weasel or a cartoon viewer"

This is the kind of thing that's going to happen naturally as LGBT+ issues are gradually de-stigmatized. But yes, of course there should be more.

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I think it depends on whether writers feel they are capable of treating them respectfully, and face, this is fairly delicate and they'd completely jump on them for one misstep.

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As long as first they improve the writing quality of cartoons overall, because let's be honest, most of the current crop isn't very good at handling relevant issues. Even if prior decades usually were even worse about it.

I mean, can you imagine how Teen Titans Go! would deal with a homosexual character or relationship without shuddering?

The best thing Teen Titans Go! could do is have their gay character be gay, but not point them out as being unusual or build a whole episode around them. It may be an airy, frivolous show, but that doesn't mean they can do nothing to help normalize LGBT+ people.

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TTG is cut from the same cloth as stuff like Family Guy and sold to a younger audience. They wouldn't deal with these things seriously.

Wake me up at your own risk.

The answer is simple: yes and no.

There is nothing wrong with having an LGBT character in cartoon as long as they are an actual character with their own story and personality. But if all their character amounts to is just being "gay" and only included just to say you have a gay character in the show, then forget having the character on the cartoon if they are just going to be that one dimensional.

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This. Otherwise it's another form of Tokenism wearing the mask of "Diversity," which is another reason why "Inclusion" is the more operative term as Ana Duvernay pointed out on race.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/oprah-winfrey-ava-duvernay-black-920196

Any/Every underrepresented group simply wants to see themselves fully humanized and involved in the story. Not invisible/erased, not a token, not a joke, not demonized, not fetishized, not put on a pedestal and not killed off, especially to make the "normal" character look righteous in avenging them, just receiving as much love/investment as a "normal" character. It's precisely why I have so much love and respect (even/especially if/when they fuck up) for Bryke for considering everyone out of their own volition/because it's the right thing to do contrasting the fuck-up (among many) of the live-action movie, ... and Iron Fist... and Gi TS and... (you get the idea.)

TL;DR make characters that happen to be queer as an aspect rather them being queer being their whole deal.

Well, to be fair, people should also not flip their lids every single time minority character dies. If Anyone Can Die then there is no such thing as Gayness Shield. If you have vision, stick to it.

With that said, have a vision. I pretty much agree with people above. Putting the lgbt or any minorities is obviously correct thing to do and like all things that are correct to do -writing stories with important message, donating blood, pushing for equal rights, etc- is something you can do. Saying that you must do good deeds, misses the point of them being good deeds. We shouldn't equal "put gays in your cartoon" with "don't kill your neighbor".

Also more generally speaking I don't think I've ever seen anyone here complaining about Getting Crap Past the Radar, so I don't expect anyone here to disagree with putting homosexuals in TV.

I think as long as they are developed and not for the sake of diversity, sure.

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I dunno, if shows can have underdeveloped straight, white, male characters, I don't see a problem with underdeveloped minority characters. Long as they aren't stereotyped as a result of their minority status, I don't see the harm in it. I'd much prefer more minority characters in leading roles, but any non-stereotyped representation is a good thing.

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Everybody else basically said what I was going to say, namely that as long as their LGBT identity isn't the sole defining point of their personality it's all good. They should be an interesting and compelling character regardless of their gender identity or orientation.

That said, I don't think it should be obligatory, though. A show can be good even if they don't have any major LGBT characters.

I think the issue there is that LGBT/minority characters in minor roles are fine, it's just that if that's the only place they appear it ends up feeling like a cop out.

edited 30th Mar '17 7:22:48 AM by JapaneseTeeth

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I'm going to say it depends on the intended audience. As as a kid, I did not understand what gay people were; they either were shown as 'effeminate' or 'butch' or were paired with their own gender, which can bring awkward questions up (And I say that as a big fan of Steven Universe). Now with shows meant for older audiences, at least for teens (say, Avatar or Samurai Jack) I would have no trouble at all.

Depends on the show. They should not be a token requirement, but they exist and should be used.

Those questions are only awkward if the parent makes them awkward. I have a three-year old. When she first saw a lesbian, I just explained to her that some women love other women. Some men love other men. And that there's nothing wrong with it. It took me all of five seconds to say, my kid got it immediately, and that was that.

I didn't even have to explain "two mommies" too hard - thanks to divorces and broken homes, I already had the "some kids don't have a daddy, or have two daddies" conversation. That one was a little longer, but it was still not that awkward. The only part that was kind of awkward was when my kid asked if that was going to happen to my wife and I with a tear in her eye, and that was cut short with a simple "no."

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@ Sunchet I know what you're trying to say, but look at the Death Tropes, specifically Black Dude Dies First and Bury Your Gays (with links on that page explaining the nuance) it's like the difference between killing an endangered species vs. killing your garden variety sugar ant, except that we're socially conditioned to care more about the latter than the former.

The whole Clexa debacle's a prime example from it's rarity of a casual same-sex couple to the backlash getting known by even people who don't watch the show (like myself,) with the sore spot being worsened by Pulse Massacre and The Lexa Pledge to atone. It goes with my previous statement about not putting said character on a pedestal at the same time.

Another example was (and I'm really trying to avoid a tangent here,) Tommy in Defiance despite being set in Future!St. Louis, he's either ignored or shit on for unjustified reasons to job to Nolan until his unsurprising death simply as a sacrifice so Nolan and Irissa have someone to mourn even though there's been zero investment in the character like Glenn.

@ 32_Footsteps I came across at least two (and bookmarked one) posts on Tumblr of parents that did the same thing regarding Korrasami and even Wuko. One elementary schoolgirl about 5-8yrs. old basically came out to her dad about loving another girl "like Korra loves Asami" while another case had an adult friend trying to write it off as friendship to be "wholesome," but the kid was matter-of-factly/basically like, "No, they were in love."

(Avoiding another spiel here) If the creator wants to be truly inclusive, they shouldn't do Very Special Episodes, but simply Normalize and Humanize the characters/situation because I keep pointing at A:tLA/LOK because the former alone reads like a social justice jackpot/checklist yet never feels that way because of that method. Disabled characters, interracial relationships and queerness aren't treated as "things" to dwell on one way or another (ex. It's incidental that both of Korra's love interests are Fire-Earth mixes and that she's dated multiple genders when the focus was on social compatibility/balance rather than a specific race/gender) so the focus remains on personality to relate them to the audience, regardless of said audience's own categories.

edited 1st Apr '17 8:38:39 PM by K2Misfit

I think they should. But with the added criteria it's not mandatory and fans should fuck off in bullying people to make characters gay for representation. Also, treat them as people and don't make them a joke or a means of going "Look how inclusive I am!" or so on.

It goes back to my desire for normalization really. Don't put them on a pedestal, don't put them down. Let them be people, for better and worse.

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I disagree with the "we have to focus on normalizing it" suggestion, because the biggest gun that we can shoot is indeed focused on a character's sexuality. Specifically, a Queer Romance between Disney Princesses is both potentially on the horizon after Frozen, and would be a major watershed in terms of representation that might be enough to make companies like Nickelodeon move their arses.

I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.

If that theoretical lesbian princess movie were just as high-quality as Disney's other output and its romance were treated like any other romance, that would be a form of normalization.

legit high-profile, non-stereotyped representation is normalization, full stop.

Very true, but most Western media doesn't even have them in minor roles. Ideally, they'd be visible without issue in both major and minor roles.

That sounds more like an issue of shitty stereotyping an issue of them being LGBT.

If a child does not understand homosexuality, that's the fault of their parents for not explaining it and normalizing it for them.

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We are going to have to disagree on that; this is not so much about sexuality as it about romance. There *is* a difference between "special friends" and true love, which is usually beyond most small children's understanding.

Another point: Cartoons are entertainment, and entertainment's only agency is to entertain -well, that and making money, nothing wrong with that- anything else is optional and cannot be demanded by the public, no matter how much social good it might do.

Besides, if we were to fairly represent minorities, the number of such characters would still have be small, because they ARE minorities. (The only exception is with female characters; women are obviously not really a minority, so about half the characters in every series should be female.)

Yes, obviously.