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Misused: Lost Forever

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Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#26: Nov 28th 2016 at 11:13:54 PM

If you wanna sandbox a new description feel free to.

Also feel free to move misuse off the page.

ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#27: Dec 3rd 2016 at 1:52:13 AM

I just cleaned up some misuse on the Lost Forever page. Here is my proposed rewrite of the trope description.

     Current description 

Also frequently referred to as being "missable," the dreaded Lost Forever is a gameplay component (such as an item, weapon, Side Quest, character, achievement, or plot event) that can become permanently inaccessible after a certain point in the game, therefore being "lost forever" if you miss them during the period in which they are available. A close relative and often an example of Guide Dang It. The bane of gamers everywhere, especially those shooting for 100% Completion, as it often forces them to start the entire game anew if they're not willing to accept a less-than-perfect run.

These items frequently appear in areas that can only be accessed once, or are rendered unavailable after a certain plot event occurs. The early town that is destroyed, the mountainous area that caves in once you leave, the village that you're banished from, the Load-Bearing Boss's hideout that explodes after you defeat him, the ship that departs after your trip is finished and never returns, and so forth.

More rarely, things are completely random and arbitrary. For example, perhaps once you finish disc two and acquire the airship, the random shopkeeper you needed to talk to in order to acquire the Infinity+1 Sword suddenly closes up shop and disappears without explanation. Forgiving developers will sometimes provide an alternative means to reach what would otherwise be Lost Forever. However, reaching it with this second-chance method is usually much more time-consuming or difficult than if you had just gotten it the first time around. If a player knows such an item is coming, a common tactic is to save immediately beforehand, and restore repeatedly from that save until they manage to get it. This is often true when getting the Lost Forever is based on luck, such as when a boss Randomly Drops a unique piece of equipment.

This is infamously present in MMORP Gs or any other game with online connectivity, due to one-time events, patch updates, and irreplaceable quest reward items (such as consumables that become Too Awesome to Use) distributed from an online source. While you can simply restart an offline game for another shot at the content, online items that are Lost Forever really can be lost forever. (When it comes to patch updates, however, players who still have the old items are usually allowed to keep them, often displaying them as a badge of honor.) Due to their tendency to induce great frustration, smart developers tend to avoid implementing these, and allow players to collect items or do sidequests at their leisure, whenever and in any order they want. Sometimes, this can result in silly situations where the player is presented with the option of returning to a location where there would be no logical reason to return to, such as, say, the site of a nuclear explosion. But, really, it's the lesser of the two evils.

Occasionally, a Lost Forever is intended to be just that: you get a one-shot item or spell that would completely unbalance the game if used elsewhere. You're not supposed to hang on to it, and the game either takes it away immediately or kills you if you try to run away with it. For some, the challenge then becomes cheating or glitching your way out of this restriction. Also see Guest Star Party Member.

Conversely, while most Lost Forevers are defined by the limited opportunity to acquire one, sometimes a particular item is acquired readily during a game's progress, but is irreplaceable once it is used up — should it get lost, stolen, or destroyed, you cannot acquire another one. See Too Awesome to Use for examples of some of these.

This trope is not to be confused with Final Death, where a character permanently dies and cannot be resurrected. If it's an item deliberately taken away from you, it may be Awesome but Temporary. If something vital to the plot becomes Lost Forever, the game is Unwinnable. Lost Forever should also not be a Point of No Return, where the game cuts off your access to prior areas. Bonus Stage Collectables can always be put in a Lost Forever situation since they are placed in Bonus Stages (unless the stage can be attempted an unlimited number of times). Missable items tend to be found in a One Time Dungeon. If the player has the choice of one item resulting in the others becoming Lost Forever, they are Mutually Exclusive Powerups.

Not to be confused with Ruined FOREVER, although it can generate degrees of it. See also Keep Circulating the Tapes when this applies to films and videos that are out of print. If those tapes have been lost as well, then it's a Missing Episode. Please don't Sink Hole to this page when listing something that is, well, lost forever.

     Proposed Rewrite 

The dreaded Permanently Missable Content is a gameplay component (such as an item, weapon, Side Quest, character, achievement, or plot event) that can become permanently inaccessible after a certain point in the game, therefore being "permanently missable" if you miss them during the period in which they are available. A close relative and often an example of Guide Dang It!. The bane of gamers everywhere, especially those shooting for 100% Completion, as it often forces them to start the entire game anew if they're not willing to accept a less-than-perfect run.

These components frequently appear in areas that can only be accessed once, or are rendered unavailable after a certain plot event occurs. The town that is destroyed, the mountainous area that caves in once you leave, the area that you're restricted from accessing after a certain point, the LoadBearingBoss's hideout that explodes after you defeat him, the ship that departs after your trip is finished and never returns, and so forth. These components may also become missable for a random or arbitrary reason (such as an NPC related to the component suddenly disappearing after a certain point in the game).

This is infamously present in MMORPGs or any other game with online connectivity, due to one-time events, patch updates, and limited time items distributed from an online source. While you can simply restart an offline game for another shot at the content, online items that are permanently missable really can be permanently missable.

Due to their tendency to induce great frustration, smart developers tend to avoid implementing these, and allow players to collect items or do sidequests at their leisure, whenever and in any order they want. Sometimes, this can result in silly situations where the player is presented with the option of returning to a location where there would be no logical reason to return to, such as, say, the site of a nuclear explosion. But, really, it's the lesser of the two evils.

Not to be confused with Final Death, where a character dies permanently and cannot be resurrected. Also not to be confused with Awesome, but Temporary, where a component is deliberately taken away from the player. If a Plot Coupon is permanently missable, the game becomes Unwinnable by Design. May be a result of Point of No Return, where the game cuts the player off from accessing earlier areas. Bonus Stage Collectables may become permanently missable if the Bonus Stage can only be played once. Permanently missable items are often found in a One-Time Dungeon. If the player has the choice of one item resulting in the others becoming permanently missable, they are Mutually Exclusive Power-Ups.

Proposed changes:

  • Shortened the current description and rewrote it to accomadate the potential rename.
  • Removed the fourth paragraph from the original because if the developers allow a second, albeit more difficult, chance to access content, it is not permanently missable.
  • Removed the seventh paragraph because it is not about Permanently Missable Content, but rather Awesome, but Temporary content.
  • Removed the eighth paragraph because it is actually about Too Awesome Too Use content, not content that is permanently missable.
  • Removed the last two paragraphs because they are obviously not needed if the trope gets renamed.

I also feel the page quote should be removed because it is more about Final Death than content that is permanently missable.

The general consensus appears to be that this trope should be renamed to Permanently Missable Content and that Lost Forever should be made a disambiguation page.

Shall we start a crowner?

edited 11th Dec '16 9:54:43 PM by ADrago

Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
#28: Dec 3rd 2016 at 7:39:11 AM

This paragraph

This trope is not to be confused with Final Death, where a character permanently dies and cannot be resurrected. If it's an item deliberately taken away from you, it may be Awesome but Temporary. If something vital to the plot becomes Lost Forever, the game is Unwinnable. Lost Forever should also not be a Point of No Return, where the game cuts off your access to prior areas. Bonus Stage Collectables can always be put in a Lost Forever situation since they are placed in Bonus Stages (unless the stage can be attempted an unlimited number of times). Missable items tend to be found in a One Time Dungeon. If the player has the choice of one item resulting in the others becoming Lost Forever, they are Mutually Exclusive Powerups.

Is the related tropes , the "Compare/contrast/not to be confused with" paragraph. It needs to be there, although it could be streamlined considerably

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#29: Dec 3rd 2016 at 10:18:10 PM

[up][up][up] Edited the proposed rewrite to add a streamlined version of that paragraph in.

Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
#30: Dec 3rd 2016 at 10:32:30 PM

[tup]

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#31: Dec 7th 2016 at 11:30:30 AM

I started a crowner. Can a mod please hook it?

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Kayube Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
#33: Dec 11th 2016 at 8:15:59 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]Swapping the old name into the description there doesn't really sit right with me. I think "permanently missable content" is actually much more common off the wiki than "lost forever" is when talking specifically about video games. It kind of seems like it really means "frequently referred to as 'lost forever'... by us, and even then not anymore."

ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#34: Dec 11th 2016 at 9:56:27 PM

[up][up] Removed the first sentence from the proposed rewrite, since it isn't commonly referred to as Lost Forever outside this website.

Berrenta MOD How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#35: Dec 12th 2016 at 11:39:48 AM

Vote is unanimous in favor of the changes, so calling. Now we need to vote on what to rename this trope, since some ideas were brought up.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#36: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:35:38 PM

We have a loose consensus already for Permanently Missable Content, which seems to be used elsewhere. We could go on to a formal vote, but unless someone objects to that name, or has a really great alternative, it seems like overkill.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#37: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:29:25 PM

Since it has been decided that this trope be renamed and the current consenseus for an alternative name is Permanently Missable Content, should we have another crowner or go ahead with the rename?

If anyone can come up with a better alternative name, please list it now.

Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#38: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:18:26 AM

Why not just Permanently Missable? That would be easier to use in sentences.

ObsidianFire Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#40: Dec 13th 2016 at 3:29:09 PM

Doesn't really need a redirect, since you can always say {{Permanently MIssable|Content}} to get the same result.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#41: Dec 14th 2016 at 12:49:21 PM

It's been a day, so I started a crowner to choose an alternative name. I've included every alternative name that has been suggested in the discussion. Can a mod please hook it?

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#43: Dec 18th 2016 at 11:35:25 AM

It's been four days since the Alternative Names crowner was launched, and Permanently Missable Content seems to be the nigh-unanimous alternative name.

Willbyr MOD Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#44: Dec 18th 2016 at 1:50:35 PM

Yeah, that margin's about as clear as it gets. Calling for Permanently Missable Content.

ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#45: Dec 18th 2016 at 7:18:52 PM

Just sent out a holler for the contents of Lost Forever to be moved to Permanently Missable Content.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#46: Dec 18th 2016 at 9:48:23 PM

Instead of doing a straight move, I've created Sandbox.Permanently Missable Content so the former trope name can be scrubbed out and the references rewritten. Once that's done, the page can be put in Main/ and the wick fixes can start.

ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#47: Dec 18th 2016 at 10:30:18 PM

I replaced the description in the Sandbox with my streamlined rewrite and removed the page quote since it is more about Final Death than Permanently Missable Content. I also just replaced all instances of "lost forever" on the page with "permanently missable".

edited 18th Dec '16 10:58:42 PM by ADrago

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#48: Dec 21st 2016 at 7:35:32 PM

Cool. I've moved the sandbox contents to Main, replaced the Lost Forever wicks on its associated indexes, redirected Lost Forever to Permanently Missable Content, and cutlisted the sandbox. I think all that's left is wick cleanup now.

edited 21st Dec '16 7:41:42 PM by Willbyr

Gosicrystal Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#49: Dec 22nd 2016 at 4:58:02 AM

What about those Lost Forever/ namespaces?

edited 22nd Dec '16 4:58:10 AM by Gosicrystal

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#50: Dec 22nd 2016 at 6:38:42 AM

Those need to be moved over to the new namespace.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

PageAction: LostForever
7th Dec '16 11:25:20 AM

Crown Description:

What would be the best way to fix the page?

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