Misused: Good Bad Bugs

Good Bad Bugs is supposed to be for "Video Game bugs that are fondly remembered by fans", which is why it is considered YMMV. However, many examples seem to interpret the trope as "Bug that makes the game easier", which is not subjective and leads to the page being potholed to on non-YMMV pages where it does not belong.

I believe that this is a case of Missing Supertrope Syndrome, and that creating a new objective trope for Helpful Bugs would help reduce misuse of GBB.

Partial Wick Check (only taking examples from video game YMMV pages):

• Gun Girl 2: Fits the real definition, but could also fit the objective Helpful Bugs definition.
• State Of Decay: Fits the Helpful Bugs definition, no mention of the bug being well-liked by fans.
• Dark Souls I: Most of them fit the Helpful Bugs definition and have no specific mention of being well-liked by fans. The Bottomless Box glitch does say that it has fans, but it also has haters, so I'm not sure if it fits.
• Crusader: Seems more like Helpful Bugs, there's no mention of the bug being liked by fans.
• God Of War Series: A few of them seem like they'd fit Helpful Bugs better, but the Sequence Breaking and New Game Plus examples seem like they could also fit the "loved by fans" definition.
• Monster Hunter: All of them would fit Helpful Bugs better.
• Sonic Adventure: Two of them sound more like Helpful Bugs. The second example looks like it would be fun, but not useful, so it fits the "liked by fans" definition.
• Barkley Shut Up And Jam Gaiden: Would fit better under Helpful Bugs.
• Left 4 Dead 2: The first example would fit Helpful Bugs better, the other two seem more like "bug that makes the game harder", which would be misuse of both definitions.

Wick check for other page types:

• Fisticuffs Boss: Seems more like Helpful Bugs, no mention of the bug being liked by fans.
• Totally Accurate Battle Simulator: Ambiguous, but possibly correct usage, since the bug is said to be fun but not useful. However, if it's correct then it should be removed from the objective tropes section.
• Low-Level Advantage: Would fit under Helpful Bugs. It mentions that the bug is used by Griefers, so it probably has enough haters to not qualify for the "loved by fans" definition.
• Sighted Guns Are Low-Tech: Could fit the Helpful Bugs definition, but since it gives one side an advantage in a competitive multiplayer game, I'm not 100% sure.
• Hell Gate London: Would probably fit the Helpful Bugs definition better.
• A Blurred Line: In-Universe example that would probably fit Helpful Bugs better.
• I Can Still Fight!: Would probably fit Helpful Bugs better.
• Funny.Markiplier: Lack of context.
• Joke Item: Multiple wicks. The Oblivion example could possibly fit both definitions, the Resident Evil 1 and Resident Evil 3 examples would fit Helpful Bugs better.
• Kevlard: Would probably fit both definitions.

Opening this. Seems like a valid split.

I am ok with the split too, although I would also rename Good Bad Bugs as Fondly Remembered Bug at the same time.

edited 6th Sep '16 10:12:51 AM by Memers

Another problem is that a couple of bugs fall more into Broken Base territory (usually because they give one player an unfair advantage in multiplayer games), so I'm not sure if they would fit the "well-liked by fans" definition, even though there may be many fans who enjoy exploiting the bug.

Yeah multiplayer bugs and exploits strike me as a different trope.

These kinda need to be memetic bugs that everyone knows about, good or bad, and people remember them.

So for the count, we're gonna have:

• Memetic Bug
• Helpful Bug

Anything else?

Humorous Bug? Some bugs don't get to memetic levels or affect much but are still funny, plus being memetic isn't inherently humorous (like Missingno. from Pokémon). Might be better off just mentioning them on a Funny Moments page, though.

edited 7th Sep '16 3:49:17 PM by Karxrida

That seems reasonable to me.

Humour isn't necessarily part of the trope.

I was talking about subtropes, my bad for not being clear,

Here try this definition:

Good(helpful) bugs are bugs that makes the game more likeable, either by giving a rule of thumb(handy for competitive play), enable a new playstyle(more playstyle means make the game more interesting), memetic mutations(being a meme helps remembering the game), or any other importance.

Bad bugs are bugs that make the game less likeable, either by ruining a rule of thumb(complicating the game), being a game breaker(the game becomes boring because exploiting the bug becomes dominant), or crashing the game server(literally ruin the game altogether).

Bugs can be good, bad, both or neither.

Good bad bugs are the ones that are both good and bad.

edited 10th Sep '16 5:46:02 AM by Siuwa

being memetic is not "helpful" nor "unhelpful"

Speaking of "unhelpful bug", someone's making a ykttw about bugs that make things harder.

What the trope is really about is bugs that are embraced by the community as part of the game, that makes it more enjoyable to play (even if it makes it more difficult). They could be funny, helpful, or add to the challenge of playing the game. Exactly what isn't important. It's just important that they're seen as a positive part of the game that are better left in than fixed.

Splitting off (whether you remove the original example or not) the bugs that are objectively helpful can work for an objective trope. That would also by necessity include bugs people don't like but give an advantage to those (ab)using it, or you're straying into subjective matters. Even if it's something that gives an unfair advantage players hate having in the game, you can't judge based on that, since that when it turns subjective. It would just make it The Same But More Specific as the above trope, but disguised as objective.

edited 9th Sep '16 6:09:19 PM by AnotherDuck

So care to modify my definition?

I don't think unhelpful bugs are anything that need to be troped, other than plain "bugs". Bugs means something isn't working properly, which generally means the game is worse off for it. They're sort of like mutations outside fiction. Generally they lower the life expectancy of the creatures with the, but in some rare cases, they're helpful, and may make a species eventually evolve to a new one. Likewise, since most features programmed in games are meant to make the game playable, most bugs therefore lower the playability of the game.

On the other hand, bugs that either make a game easier in some way, or bugs the community just likes for one reason or another, can be worth pointing out as tropes here. The latter is what we have here (or should have). The former is something we can split off from here. Some examples may fit both, as it's not a supertrope-subtrope pair.

I'd define a Helpful Bug as a bug that makes the game easier in any way, to put it as simply as possible. More specifically, for the player using the bug, as in competitive games, it would make it harder for other players not using the bug. It's about removing difficulty, not making anything balanced (since most of the cases it's an unintended imbalance). If it's a bug players find good for the game because it balances something, it may count, but it also may not, if it makes it more difficult. However, either of those cases would go under Memetic Bug, since that's about popularity of the bug.

And, well, some of those Helpful Bugs may not really be memetic, right? The exploit may be unheard by most people, possibly because either the exploit is so situational or requires an uncommon tactic.

I kind of like Helpful Bugs.

Helpful Bugs. It always bothered me about all the helpful bugs that were on YMMV pages for no reason.

Also, Helpful Bugs would be Trivia because it's not intentional by the creators.

edited 15th Sep '16 3:33:58 PM by TropesForever

You can see bugs in the game, and most of the time you can figure out that they are bugs even without knowing what the intention is, so I'm inclined against labelling them as trivia.

Game-Breaking Bug is also not intended, but it's still a trope. I once saw somebody argue that it qualifies as a "storytelling convention", and thus a trope, because it's when the story (game) is told (played) in ways not intended by the authors. Since the bug is part of the game, it counts as a trope.

More specifically, it falls into tropes of interactive elements.

What? I'm not sure I understand. Is there a precedent for objective tropes that are unintentional?

With few exceptions, the rule is that the creator's intentions are irrelevant. Mostly because that requires sources, direct or indirect, from the creator, or mindreading. We cannot know what the creator's intentions are most of the time. Whether something is intentional or unintentional doesn't matter for tropes. What matters is that they're objectively there.

I'm bringing this discussion back. I made a TLP for Helpful Bug, although I can only remember one examoke at the moment. I will probably add more late. Is it okay to just copy the examples from Good Bad Bugs and add them to Helpful Bug?

As long as they fit, that's fine.