Condemned by History cleanup thread

Makes sense.

In this case, I'd say it would affect everyone in the fandom that frequented TF message boards at the time. Meaning most adult collectors. Since most kids (you know, the targeted demographic would likely not now about it, I'd be down for cutting it.

I just wanted to bring it up because "unescapably popular" is very hard to prove. I mean, to the average person on the street, other than Pokemon I'd say no anime would be considered "unescapably popular."

edited 12th Dec '16 1:50:48 PM by Larkmarn

Anime and Manga

Companies:

• 4Kids: Fence, leaning cut. While there has been a lot of backlash against them, there is still nostalgia for their Pokemon dub.

Dubbing Practices:

• Cut And Paste Translation: Cut. Still done today.
• Dub Name Change: Cut. While it isn't done as much today, it is still done and insisting on using the original Japanese names for Anime and video game characters will get you labeled as a "weeb" in many fan circles.

Genres:

• Traditional Magical Girl Shows: Cut. There is still a lot of nostalgia for them and this seems more like a case of the genre evolving.

Don't know enough about the other entries to make a good contribution.

DeaderThanDisco.Anime And Manga vote tally:

Companies:

• 4kids:
  • Keep: Spino
  • Fence: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, A Drago, Packer
• Streamline Pictures:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, Packer
• Tokyopop:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, Packer
• Central Park Media:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, Packer
• Harmony Gold:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, Packer
• Manga Entertainment's UK division:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, Packer

Dubbing practices:

• Cut And Paste Translation:
  • Cut: High Crate, crazyrabbits, A Drago, Packer
• Dub Name Change:
  • Cut: High Crate, crazyrabbits, A Drago, Packer

Genres:

• "traditional" Magical Girl shows:
  • Cut: High Crate, Ralexa, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, A Drago, Psyche, Packer
• "TV adaptations of shoujo manga":
  • Cut: High Crate, Ralexa, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, Packer

Series:

• Inuyasha:
  • Fence: High Crate
  • Cut: Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Gundam SEED:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Digimon Adventure 02:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Love Hina:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Infinite Stratos:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Haruhi:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, Psyche
• Chobits:
  • Fence: Another Duck
  • Cut: High Crate, crazyrabbits
• Tsubasa:
  • Fence: Another Duck
  • Cut: High Crate, crazyrabbits
• Bunny Drop:
  • Keep: Another Duck
  • Fence: crazyrabbits
  • Cut: High Crate
• Air:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Mermaid Melody:
  • Fence: Another Duck
  • Cut: High Crate, crazyrabbits
• Oreimo:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Shugo Chara:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Vampire Knight:
  • Fence: crazyrabbits
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, Psyche
• Hot Gimmick:
  • Fence: Another Duck
  • Cut: High Crate, crazyrabbits
• Lucky Star:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits, Psyche
• Katekyo Hitman Reborn:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Soul Eater:
  • Fence: crazyrabbits
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, Psyche
• Eiken:
  • Fence: Another Duck
  • Cut: High Crate, crazyrabbits
• Blood:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Nekojiru:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Hunter x Hunter 1999:
  • Cut: High Crate, Another Duck, crazyrabbits
• Dic's Sailor Moon adaptation:
  • Keep: Another Duck
  • Cut: High Crate, crazyrabbits
• Bleach:
  • Keep: High Crate
  • Fence: Another Duck, crazyrabbits

edited 13th Dec '16 9:00:49 AM by HighCrate

Lemme see what I can do...

Vampire Knight: Cut. It was snarked a bit even when it was popular; nowadays it's just been forgotten.

Lucky Star: Cut. Plenty of fans still exist.

Soul Eater: Cut. There hasn't been much backlash.

Haruhi: Cut. Seems more like Seasonal Rot than anything.

Magical girl anime: Cut, definitely. If it really were DTD, then Star Vs The Forces Of Evil wouldn't be so popular right now. And even without that, there's still a lot of nostalgia for such shows.

edited 12th Dec '16 4:24:18 PM by Psychedelicate

My knowledge of anime is a bit narrow, so I can't really weigh in on the series.

As for the rest:

• Companies:
  • 4Kids: Fence. While the example does state its case for initial inescapable popularity and eventual backlash, their dub of Pokemon is still fondly remembered. The example could also be shortened a bit.
  • Streamline Pictures: Cut. "Too liberal" is not enough to justify backlash.
  • Tokyopop: Cut. Again, mediocre isn't strong enough to clarify backlash.
  • Central Park Media: Cut. Not specific with "declined in popularity" and doesn't state its backlash claim very well.
  • Harmony Gold: Cut. Where's the backlash?
  • Manga Entertainment's UK division: Cut. Example doesn't even try to pinpoint backlash and seems like it was shoehorned in.

• Dubbing Practices:
  • Cut-and-Paste Translation: Cut. Still in use and there's some nostalgia for series that utilized this practice.
  • Dub Name Change: Cut. Again still in use.

• Genres:
  • Magical Girl: Cut. There's no backlash against these shows, the audience moved on.
  • TV anime adaptations of shoji manga "seem to be heading this way", then it's not Deader Than Disco yet, is it? Cut.

There seems to be very little controversy on any of the Anime and Manga examples other than 4Kids, which has one "keep" vote and a whole bunch of Fences (myself included), so I went ahead and made the cuts.

That's all of the example subpages! Whoo-hoo! Looking through what's left, it seems like the only subpage that it makes sense to keep is Music, which can comfortably have the sub-sub-pages like Country and Hip-Hop merged into it. Everything else can be merged into the main page. I made a couple of sandbox pages so we can all see what that would look like:

• Sandbox.Deader Than Disco
• Sandbox.Deader Than Disco Music

I preserved the folder structure from the old subpages as headers within the new folders in most cases. It's not always strictly necessary for readability in some of the smaller folders, but I'm of a mind that a little extra organization isn't a bad thing.

I'll give it a day for changes to be suggested and then copy them over to the live DTD and DTD Music pages and cutlist the rest.

Looks good. The only thing is that some examples are a bit long (I find 3-4 long paragraphs excessive), but that can be done at any time.

Made the following edits to the Sandbox:

• Removed instances of the word 'recent'.
• Created sections for folders that had no sections to separate genres, trends, and styles from individual works
• Alphabetized the examples and added a comment about it at the top

I agree that the longer entries that consist of 2-4 paragraphs can be streamlined.

Tend to agree that many of the longer entries can stand to be streamlined.

Went ahead and alphabetized the entries on the Music Sandbox. Quite a few of the entries on the music subpage can definitely be streamlined because several of them are essentially mini-essays.

Would it be a good idea to review the Molly Ringwald entry under Film?

I agree to keep 4Kids (Anime). About music: I'll agree on keeping Auto-Tune, Crunk, Iggy, Soulja Boy, Mystikal, T-Pain, Liberace, Milli Vanilli, Creed, Gary Glitter, emo, Limp Bizkit, and Smash Mouth.

Everything that's left is there because the thread has reached some kind of consensus on keeping it. If you want to argue for something that's there to be cut, or for something that's been cut to be restored, then great, but there's no reason to argue for anything that's there to be kept. That's not in dispute.

I made a few tweaks to both pages. If/when the sandboxes go live, the links to DeaderThanDisco/Disco and DeaderThanDisco/RockMusic potholes will need to be purged or redone on the main DTD page.

Swapped out the sandboxes, cutlisted all subpages other than Music.

Fantastic job, all. There's more left to do— streamlining some of the egregiously long entries into something a little more concise, cleaning wicks— but we're over the hump, I think.

Main/DeaderThanDisco found in: 685 articles, excluding discussions.

But I think we're close to a major milestone!

That said, I think we may want to consider at some point that the name itself is a big part of the problem here. It's exactly the sort of thing that people see and assume they know what it means without checking the definition, because they use it themselves to mean something entirely different.

(Of course, renaming is a matter for TRS, but we should keep in mind that we're sort of destroying the sort of evidence they generally want at TRS to justify a rename.)

Honestly, I think that I'm throwing a Keep vote for 4Kids.

True, their Pokemon dub is still considered good, but outside of that they;re generally viewed as a complete laughingstock. The hatred for them isn't quite as loud as it once was, but that's mostly because people have moved on to other things to mock.

While we're going on our quest, I noticed that DTD is listed in the YMMV page for GEICO with this description: "Almost nobody takes them seriously as a company anymore. Rival companies have entire ad campaigns dedicated to making fun of them."

You guys agree? I may call fowl as I knew a satisfied GEICO customer at my local church ward in Virginia two years ago.

Cut that. Ask a person on the street about Geico, and they'll say, "Oh, those guys with the silly commercials." No backlash.

Cut GEICO. First off, there was no widespread backlash, and second, they're still doing quite well; the company is hardly "dead".

Re: 4Kids. First of all, if their version of Pokemon is still popular, then they lack the required level of backlash. Second of all, as far as I can tell, they're mainly hated by American Otaku, who were never their target audience in the first place. (Their actual target audience is ever-so-subtly suggested by their name.) The hardcore anime fans in the west have always hated the ways they've westernized the things they dub, but they did that to appeal to western kids who have no particular interest in learning the details of Japanese culture.

I have a suggestion for something that could be added to the Professional Wrestling section, since it seems to fit the trope description to a T, but I want to know if we're still in the cleanup process first.

I think Lindsay Lohan could be added back on. Like with Molly Ringwald (another redhead, coincidentally enough), many former fans that idolized her growing up have completely turned against her to the point that some argue that her acting wasn't even that good to begin with (hell, ask any group of Mean Girls viewers and most will say that Lohan's performance was one of the weaker parts of the film), while much of the general public barely has much, if any, sympathy left for her. And though she's trying to jumpstart her career again with a starring role in a pretty schlocky movie, there's no hype for it and it's expected to perform badly. And any chance of a future comeback is entirely dead, since she's been dubbed an "uninsurable" Persona Non Grata through most of Hollywood in general. She's regarded as a cautionary tale at best and an unsympathetic (if somewhat tired) punchline at worst. I'd say she feels well and truly DTD.

edited 18th Dec '16 1:36:24 PM by KizunaTallis

Found this on YMMV/Airport:

Deader Than Disco: At the time of its release, the first film was a box office hit, making 10 times its $10 million budget, and was critically acclaimed, getting nominated for 10 Academy Awards, including Best Picture (losing to Patton). But since then, it has fallen from grace considerably, having a score of 6.6/10 on IMDb and 80% on Rotten Tomatoes, the good reviews praising the film because it's so enjoyably crappy. Burt Lancaster even went on to describe it as "the biggest piece of junk ever made." Between that, the later emergence of more widely praised disaster movies like The Poseidon Adventure and The Towering Inferno and, of course, the fact that Airplane! pretty much took the piss out of the airplane disaster movie genre, Airport is today mostly enjoyed for its campy, old-fashioned charm and its impact on the disaster movie genre.

I feel this is a valid example from the way it's written, but if I am not mistaken wasn't this voted to be cut from the film subpage?

edited 19th Dec '16 9:24:38 PM by ADrago

Those ratings are not a DTD movie. Even if people are enjoying it ironically, they're enjoying it.