Which Supervillains Could Benefit From a Lighter/Darker Take?

Thread bump.

Was trying to think of a character who'd benefit from a darker take (specifically thinking future adaptations) and I did- Spider-Man villain, Kraven.

There is something inherently ridiculous about Hunting the Most Dangerous Game, especially when the character doing it traditionally operates from the mindset that interprets Animal-Themed Superbeing literally. However, I think rather than making him a joke (i.e. Ultimate Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man), it's better to present him at least somewhat seriously as a Blood Knight with possible Death Seeker tendencies.

Interestingly, as discussed in the Complete Monster thread, Kraven's "original", General Zaroff, is a cruel sociopath beneath his charming surface. I'm not sure about going this direction with Kraven, but I think it shows that the ridiculous premise can be presented in a disturbing fashion.

That sounds interesting.

I have been thinking about this for a while, but I think Captain Marvel(Shazam) really needs a lighter take. I think that's why DC hasn't done much with the character despite a lot of potential, because they want everything to be dark and serious and there's no place for Captain Marvel in that. I think for the most part he works when he's geared towards younger audiences, and has a lighter less grim and serious interpretation. He was originally a wish fulfillment character for kids (as well as being a direct rip off of superman, but never mind that.) And he works best in that regard.

edited 21st Aug '15 3:55:37 AM by HeroAllAlong

The thread is about supervillains.

I would personally quite like to see Mysterio given a genuinely impressive showing. Generally he's basically seen/portrayed as a hamtastic melodramatic type who performs a few magic tricks and illusions, which against someone who can sense real danger is basically worthless. He did get a relatively decent plan going against Daredevil but as soon as DD worked out he was being gamed, radar sense again made being an illusionist pretty pointless.

Give him an upgrade, perhaps make him a more effective and threatening Arcade type and tone down the am-dram tendencies and he could be a decent villain. Go after civilians and supporting cast instead of Spidey himself perhaps, give the webslinger a deadline or something similar.

I've got a ton of ideas brewing for the Gotham crowd...

Joker: Merely toning him down into the DCAU version seems a tad inadequate for me (even though it's probably the best we'd get). I've always wanted to experiment with a Joker who never kills - at least not directly. Rather, he's someone who manipulates others into murder or suicide, a la that guy from Hercule Poirot's last case.

Two-Face: I really don't like seeing him as a full-on villain at all, let alone the kind of monster who kills people when the coin comes scarred-side up and "merely" cripples them when it comes good-side up. My take: a good man who bargains with his ruthless and violent but not Joker-level evil side because he genuinely believes that's the only way to keep the peace in Gotham. Someone who's half-Batman and half-... Penguin, I s'pose. Speaking of which...

The Penguin: I grow less and less fond of the Iceberg Lounge mob boss every year, since it's left him with virtually no personality and gives every other crazy in Gotham an excuse to walk all over him for info. It's probably not go away anytime soon, so all I can suggest is playing up the affectations: the Shakespeare (mis-)quotes, the Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness, et cetera. I also don't like him having a Hair-Trigger Temper; here, I would more hew to the Golden Age version, who was an almost Gin Ichimaru-like Eyes Always Shut Perpetual Smiler.

The Riddler: String me up if you must, but I kinda hate the DCAU version. I'd like to de-emphasize his intelligence, or more specifically, shift it in a different direction. He's someone who knows he's seen as a second-rater and runs with it to make people underestimate him. His riddles are almost always feints, and while he does have an egotistical streak, he will pretty much never give up a sweet payday for a chance to prove he's smarter.

Mr. Freeze: Do "Heart of Ice" and then kill him. Seriously. Time and time again it's been shown that keeping him alive after his debut just drains all sympathy out of him and eventually leaves him a second-rate Captain Cold.

Poison Ivy: I'm... probably the only one on Earth who likes the short-lived take of her having a crush on Batman and generally being a Psychopathic Womanchild, not a cold, man-hating femme fatale. And honestly, I can't stand it when they turn her into any stripe of environmentalist.

Speaking of Batman villains that could benefit lighter or darker takes...

Signalman: Let's face it; Signalman, for most if not all of his existence, has been a joke. (And for all those who have little to no clue who Signalman is, here you are.) His main gimmick is that he sends signals to give Batman a clue to whatever crime he's pulling off like a second-rate Riddler, (didn't we already have Cluemaster?) and aside from that, he just uses whatever 'signals' happen to be lying around to try in vain to escape the Dark Knight. And he doesn't have much of a real character to speak of either, so on all fronts, there isn't really much to go on. At least Pre-TAS Mr.Freeze was a threat, but Signalman isn't even that.

So here's an idea: Take the basic idea of Signal-man and ramp it up a notch. Make him a sort of psuedo hacker or engineer. Using these skills, he can mess with traffic signals, rewrite traffic boards, hack into bank accounts and frick with dollar signs&decimals, etc., all of which either possess or are some sort of signal or another. He could also be a skilled martial artist, being able to notice the 'signals' apparent in the style of whomever he's fighting, including the Batman, and react against them accordingly. Put all of this together, and you have someone who could be a decent threat, if nothing else.

edited 22nd Aug '15 8:49:43 PM by kkhohoho

That... sounds suspiciously like TAS Clock King.

As someone who knows nearly every episode of TAS by heart, I can understand that, but trust me when I say that I didn't have the Clock King in mind here. Either way, it's still better than how Signalman's usually portrayed, so I don't think him being somewhat similar to a successful revamp on another bargain bin villain is a bad thing.

edited 22nd Aug '15 9:15:28 PM by kkhohoho

@Rubber Lotus what's wrong with Ivy being an environmentalist?

In and of itself, I don't think anyone besides Hayao Miyazaki has ever told a save-the-green story that didn't manage to make me roll my eyes. And Batman writers on their best day are frankly a lot less subtle than Miyazaki on his worst.

It's more a matter of personal preference, though, and I'll admit that it makes a smidgen more sense when they emphasize that Ivy's brain is part-plant.

I think the problem is the presentation of Ivy as a combination Straw Feminist and Straw Environmentalist (forget the trope for that).

A couple of other thoughts:

Yeah. I agree that a darker take on Mysterio would probably be in the form of an Arcade (or Jigsaw or Nolan!Joker) like character that plays cat and mouse games with the hero. There seems to be a real tendency to do with with a lot of villains, especially the cerebral ones (see also the Riddler).

RE Penguin, I agree. I like the idea of a take on him as affable, collected, and calculating. Calls to mind the Boardwalk Empire take on Arnold Rothstein. Also reminded me of how much I liked the Spectacular Spider-Man version of Tombstone and which I feel is a good guide for the Penguin or say Killer Croc:

Basically, present your physically hideous villain as charming and intelligent and having a manner that belies their appearance. It even makes for a handy way of having them be a Villain with Good Publicity, because people aren't going to call attention to their being Obviously Evil looking.

Croc actually was presented along those lines when he first appeared, as an uneducated and brutal, but nevertheless very intelligent mob boss.

Ditto on the Joker not killing anyone, at least not deliberately. It's even more in character for him that way, as people couldn't laugh at his jokes if they're dead. I'd also give him a genuine absurdist sense of humor, rather than the whole "why doesn't anyone find mass murder funny" deal. It'd also be beneficial for him to be more ambiguously malicious, rather than a gleeful complete monster; someone who actually might not realize what he's doing is harmful. So basically, having him bomb a children's hospital - bad; but having him rig every medical monitor to play cartoons, so as to lift the children's spirits Patch Addams style - good... and still with an immense potential for collateral damage, which is where Batman would step in.

A lighter Joker also mitigates the "just kill him" issue , because ultimately, Batman did. Yeah - for all intents and purposes, that was pretty much the endgame for Batman: Endgame, with the question of whether Batman would break his one rule being resolved with a definitive "yes... so long as the circumstances are convoluted enough for it to get past the radar". Following that, having the Joker remain a singularly murderous maniac no longer serves any purpose.

And on a general note, unless it's a Punisher book, having any villain treat arrest and even imprisonment as a minor inconvenience easily drains all sense of triumph and catharsis from the ending. It's simply a contrived impasse that any story worth its salt shouldn't have to bring up, let alone justify.

edited 24th Aug '15 2:35:48 AM by indiana404

I think we can afford to lighten up Black Adam a little bit.

Any details on how you'd go about that?

Tone down the gore and torture. Feels like little more than shock value.

edited 10th Sep '15 10:24:35 AM by nervmeister