Does Not Illustrate: Bishonen

We'll have another Image Links page here, I see.

Genesis◊ from FFVIII Crisis Core ?

He was pretty much designed to be Bishie from the start and was actually based on Gackt. the horde of pics like this prove it worked, lol.◊

edited 4th Oct '14 4:57:20 AM by Memers

So should we have a crowner or just keep this blank?

Don't really see why we should keep it blank if plenty of good images can be found. Here's a crowner. I didn't include the Real Life people. Feel free to add more.

Well the Bishie body type is certainly being represented in the crowner, although a few are a bit too muscular.

But many there has got to be a better pic of Takuto Tsunashi from Star Driver out there. His title as 'the chosen one' is the Galactic Bishonen. [1]◊

Ohh got a good one from the page Yuuto Kiba◊ from High School DXD, the body type is perfect and the Bishie Sparkle is a huge plus.

edited 5th Oct '14 5:34:18 AM by Memers

Crowner's hooked.

Monday bump for votes; three in the green.

edited 6th Oct '14 6:53:54 AM by Willbyr

Duck, you type that Golden Logres should be replaced regardless of anything.

But you don't give any good reason why. Cause the fact of the matter is this discussion is a farce. Bishonen's edit history says that the image was removed because it is not from East Asian media, yet it is from East Asian media. LittleWing is a Japanese video game company, about as East Asian as media comes.

What, are you going to tell me they don't look like Anime then? As if Japanese animation must confirm to what you say it does rather than what living breathing Japanese people actually drew. Is there really no one involve in this discussion who sees my reasoning?

edited 7th Oct '14 7:53:24 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Don't call it a farce just because people don't agree with you. That's just bad style, and quite frankly rather rude to everyone involved.

It's not as if Japanese animation must confirm to what we say it does. It's that there's a certain style that can be recognized as anime. The style includes hair that's large but straight and of unnatural color, huge angular eyes and slender angular everything. The old image had none of that.

'unnatural colors' are not a must, they just tend to help. The hair is almost never curly like the previous image as the the predominate style is hair spiky qualities to it. As well as Bishōnen all tend to be a very specific very thin but toned body type and more than a few feminine qualities.

The poll does a very good job in showing the stereotypes and when comparing to Bifauxnen like [1]◊ [2]◊ you can start to see a pattern. Btw I do not like the Bifauxnen image, it is far too outdated with the modern Bifauxnen being almost 50 years old, ugh, but I guess it is about the reaction.

I personally prefer Kiba to the Ouran due to the Bishie Sparkle and it shows the body type and hair better but whatever the poll is king.

edited 7th Oct '14 11:07:38 PM by Memers

Another Duck, it's not a matter of opinion. Opinion is that my choices don't work. I'm accept that. That this topic was started on a false statement is a fact as seen here. If you know a more polite way to phrase that than "farce", tell me. Whatever you want to call it though, this is still a topic started on false pretense.

A Japanese image made by Japanese people of pretty boys? The only way you could do it better is with actual living people Japanese people think are pretty, that is my opinion. Disagree with it if you want. That Golden Logres fits all the qualities its supposed replacements do? That's fact.

Doesn't mean it's not crap for illustrating what the trope actually looks like in most cases.

It's not just Another Duck who disagrees with you. Everyone understands that the old image doesn't fit, "A Pretty Boy, Japanese style," but you. This wiki runs on consensus. If you don't like it no one is making you stay.

That's cute. I don't have to stay here anymore than you have to respond to me. I'm not breaking any rules of the wiki by complaining about direction a discussion is going, by pointing out the reasoning people are agreeing to is not sound or telling you why I don't like what you did.

It's crap isn't a reason. Well, it is an opinion, in that sense it is a reason, but it is not sound, it is not logical, it is not a good reason. Why is it crap? Because they don't look Asian? As pointed out, none of the other drawings or even computer generated images look anymore Asian than the Golden Logres. So move the goal posts and say "they don't look" like Anime characters? Why? Because they don't have eyes like Mickey Mouse? Yet when this is Japanese Animation as much as this, this, this, this, this or this. Maybe I'm wrong to think that the problem is with the person who removed the Golden Logres image on the assumption it wasn't from a Japanese work rather than with the image itself, that the idea LittleWing's work does not look Anime enough is amusingly ignorant. Maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way. I'm not wrong in pointing out that Adept Rogue's reason for removing the page image was invalid.

You see, Anime doesn't conform to what non Japanese people want it too, it looks like whatever they want it to. It doesn't matter how many people share an opinion, "its crap" or "this is better" are not better arguments because of it. Maybe some of you don't really care about the point and are just upset Indirect Active Transport said you were wrong, that I was rude? Sure, don't be rude is a rule I think, but I also think the whole tone this whole thing took is offensive(which also is synonymous with rude I think) to the people's intelligence. Maybe you think I was a hypocrite for also suggesting replacement images? That was hypocritical of me, I should have just argued to leave the image as is from the get go. But I also suggested a different kind of image, of a live person who was an unmistakable Easterner.

You've just pulled down one Japanese picture of pretty boys who don't look Japanese for more pictures of pretty boys that don't look Japanese and said the one already there was bad for the same reason the proposed replacements are good. So for me it is now an argument of principle. None of them look Japanese to a non Japanese person. Illustrations/paintings/ect default to what you're familiar with unless you go the highest realism. Littlewing decided to focus on noses or instead of eyes, hence they have visible bridges but not visible whites. There's still no color to their lips, they're still stylized. Not stylized in a way Japanese people do it, as you know Japanese do it, right? For that very reason it should be left as the page image. It will let people know there is more to Japanese art than apparently what a lot of people think it is limited to. It still gets the pretty boy picture across so nothing is wrong with it.

edited 8th Oct '14 11:53:50 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

The entire point of any IP effort is to find the best way to represent a trope visually. The vast majority of people who come to this page are going to be familiar with the classic anime/manga expectation of what a bishounen character looks like, and it's jarring to have something there that doesn't fit that expectation. I'm perfectly fine with putting the current on an Image Links page along with the rest of the suggestions, but it's not a good general representation of the trope.

It's less about the characters "looking like Japanese people" and more about them being in illustrated Japanese (or East Asian) style. Obviously, a picture drawn in Manga style is very distinct than something drawn in Disney/Marvel style, and that distinction is pretty obvious. The art style of Final Fantasy or Magna Carta, for example, is vastly different from Skyrim or Diablo. This is the main reason I suggestions of Gackt, even though he is obviously Japanese.

edited 9th Oct '14 6:19:50 AM by theAdeptRogue

I rather see it the other way around. Anyone coming to that page not knowing what it's about should preferably see an image that's fairly representative of what you're likely to come across.

That too.

For me, Gackt is the only real person that I'd consider for the page, and even then I think the Ouran pic is better.

Gackt pretty much set the trend for the current Bishōnen in drawn media in the east. Its pretty much his thing and he milks it to no end, god just google his cosplays of Squall.

Which why I put forth the suggestion but I agree to not choosing him for a picture though.

edited 9th Oct '14 8:08:02 AM by Memers

The votes on this one haven't shifted for a few days, so I think it's safe to call. I've moved the content of the anime/manga page to the main page, made that page a redirect since it had nearly 50 inbounds, folderized it, tagged the page, and put in some commented-out notes. I'm good with the current caption; anyone else?

On a side note - the anime/manga examples are RIFE with ZC Es.

EDIT: I haven't done anything with the other options in the crowner. ImageLinks.Bishonen

edited 10th Oct '14 8:01:18 AM by Willbyr

I've added some images to the Image Links page. I am fine with the caption.

I'm gonna go ahead and shut this one down.