1 HandsomeRob10th Apr 2013 07:03:57 PM from Shining time station
, Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The freaky train with a face!
Or to be more precise, a plausible one.
One day, I may do a story where a character wields a shield in one hand, and while trying to decide whether to give them a gun(for a sort of riot cop appeal) or a sword(and make them more like a knight or roman centurion) it hit me:
Just do both. So now, Swordgun!!!
I think either something like The Cell delete gun used by Alphas
from Zet Man, or The Wizar Sword-Gun used by Kamen Rider Wizard.
The latter seems like a good short sword, but is a little too big(I want it to be something you could put in a holster like a regular pistol), while the former is slightly preferred, but I'm not really sure if you could use it for all the things you regularly use swords for(like parrying and the like, or if you lose the shield and need to block).
The design has to avoid anything that would damage the gun part when using it as a sword as well.
Help a troper out with some ideas please.
from Zet Man, or The Wizar Sword-Gun used by Kamen Rider Wizard.
The latter seems like a good short sword, but is a little too big(I want it to be something you could put in a holster like a regular pistol), while the former is slightly preferred, but I'm not really sure if you could use it for all the things you regularly use swords for(like parrying and the like, or if you lose the shield and need to block).
The design has to avoid anything that would damage the gun part when using it as a sword as well.
Help a troper out with some ideas please.
As a sentient train, I am morally against any kind of de-railing.
Zzzzzzzzzz
If you want to be able to holster it like a pistol, you aren't going to be able to have a sword. A sword is simply too long for that. But knives and swords with pistol mechanisms and barrels have actually been made and used in the past. They never caught on, though because "instead of getting two weapons in one, one got a heavy pistol and a heavy, off-balance sword..."
They never caught on, though because "instead of getting two weapons in one, one got a heavy pistol and a heavy, off-balance sword..."
edited 10th Apr '13 7:59:23 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
3 HandsomeRob10th Apr 2013 08:12:37 PM from Shining time station
, Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The freaky train with a face!
Hmm.
What if I used a little Applied Phlebotinum to fix the balance issues. Would that make it more possible?
I should note that both examples I used have the characters wearing Powered Armour of a sort(well, Kamen Rider Wizard is something else, but close enough), so maybe if my hypothetical warrior was wearing some kind of strength enhancing device to work around any balance problem.
As a sentient train, I am morally against any kind of de-railing.
Eye'm the cutest!
About the only way you fix the balance in a sword-gun is the barrel runs right through the center of the blade and the blade is gladius shaped. (The firing mechanism would be in the hilt and the hilt be sword-biased)
It would have to forgo sights, indeed magazine capacity greater than one shot a la shotgun canes, and the whole thing would have to be overengineered.
I mean yeah with today's technology (especially 3D printing but it could be done with metal casting) you could build a balanced sword-gun like that. It has however several problems. One it won't be as good as a properly built sword since you have to worry about the gun part and you'll lack a stabbing tip owing to the barrel location. Two it will be a terrible gun since it would be short ranged, only one shot and difficult to reload.
You might be better off with some kind of Schizo Tech sword bayonet attached to your Hand Cannon. That way you can have your swordfight and have a viable pistol. (Wouldn't be the first time a pistol has been mated to a sword bayonet.)
"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
On the topic of weight distribution, swords would frequently have their weight towards the business end of the blade to better facilitate slashing motions. Conversely, a gun wouldn't want the weight on the far end as it would be harder to aim or hold it steady. As such, the weight would be balanced towards the opposite end - by the hand. In which case, the sword wouldn't be very good at slashing and instead would need to be designed for stabbing motions in order to be useful and not just window dressing.
OG
A rifle with a bayonet is the best swordgun.
...
A rifle with a bayonet is not a sword gun, it's a polearm gun.
"..."
Eye'm the cutest!
If the bayonet is bigger than the rifle and the rifle is compact carbine sized....
"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
...
Even then, you have to use it like a spear rather than a sword, unless the carbine is really oddly shaped.
"..."
OG
Naw, it's still a swordgun.
Bayonet = Sword
Rifle = Gun
Bayonet + Rifle = Swordgun
edited 11th Apr '13 7:13:02 AM by RedEyesNegroDragon
...
You can't swing a fixed bayonet around like a sword, though, because if you try, the "hilt" becomes the most unwieldy thing ever.
"..."
Eye'm the cutest!
So I have a swordgun? My rifle has a bayonet. (It's of the spike type though...)
"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
OG
@KHAAAAN
Just because it can't be used like a convenient sword doesn't stop it from technically being one. Variants of the Zweihänder could be held and wielded like spears due to their length, but that didn't stop people from referring to them as swords.
@Major Major
Indeed. Wield your gunblade with pride.
14 ArsThaumaturgis11th Apr 2013 07:36:27 AM , Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
If you have magic or sufficiently advanced technology, you might get away with something along the lines of a "mass shifter" that rearranges the effective mass distribution without rearranging the actual physical structure of the device. The first squeeze of the trigger (or perhaps better the deactivation of the safety) flips a switch, pulling the mass backwards to balance the weapon for firing, while doing the opposite — releasing the trigger or activating the safety — sends it forwards to balance for sword-work.
(That said, I imagine that there would still be the potential issue of worrying about ruining your gun's barrel — or other workings, for that matter — in melee...)
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15 Handsomerob11th Apr 2013 09:17:48 AM from Shining time station
, Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The freaky train with a face!
![[up]](http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, sounds like I'll need some Phletbotinum to work around the issues.
For an alternate design, I was thinking of a Gun Baton(like a a police officer would use): The idea is similar to the sword, but a metal shaft comes out of the barrel, and acts as a stun baton to shock melee opponents. The head would be like a Silencer or muffler for the gun, or something else, and if the shaft gets bent, it can be disconnected.
How does that fly with you guys?
As a sentient train, I am morally against any kind of de-railing.
What you're describing sounds a lot like Gun-Tonfas.
@Red Eyes: You can't call classify the bayonet as a sword since the "blade" is disproportionately shorter than its "handle" (the rest of the rifle). A rough guideline is that swords have blades that are longer than their handles while polearms have handles that are longer than their blades.
Moreover, the length of the bayonet would be too short to be considered a "sword"; its length being more in keeping with a "knife".
edited 11th Apr '13 11:26:47 AM by peasant
17 HandsomeRob11th Apr 2013 05:04:44 PM from Shining time station
, Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The freaky train with a face!
I don't really like Tonfa's (not sure why. As weapons go, they are really quite practical).
I was thinking more of an extendable baton type thing(that's also a Stun Baton, that's also a gun).
As a sentient train, I am morally against any kind of de-railing.
18 Paktra3rd Dec 2013 07:28:38 PM from
YOUR MOTHERBOARD, Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
•826-52|||•8116—29
Why not include swords that use guns in the design instead?
The original Gunblade◊ of FF 8 was a complete sword with a solid blade, not barrel but what appears to be Compensator◊-like vents in the blade here◊ to relieve the back pressure gasses when fired.
It is an one of the more plausible examples of VibroWeapons. Plus, avoids the issues... "lack a stabbing tip", "a heavy, off-balance sword", etc. simply by using blanks.
"Despite its name, it cannot be used as a gun, meaning it does not fire projectiles, and can therefore only be used in melee combat, making it more like a gun supplementing a sword than a blade supplementing a firearm, e.g. a bayonet on a rifle. The firing of the gunblade's rounds induces a tremor in the blade causing it to deal additional damage to whatever it strikes." -finalfantasywikia
◊ of FF 8 was a complete sword with a solid blade, not barrel but what appears to be Compensator
◊-like vents in the blade here
◊ to relieve the back pressure gasses when fired.
It is an one of the more plausible examples of VibroWeapons. Plus, avoids the issues... "lack a stabbing tip", "a heavy, off-balance sword", etc. simply by using blanks.
"Despite its name, it cannot be used as a gun, meaning it does not fire projectiles, and can therefore only be used in melee combat, making it more like a gun supplementing a sword than a blade supplementing a firearm, e.g. a bayonet on a rifle. The firing of the gunblade's rounds induces a tremor in the blade causing it to deal additional damage to whatever it strikes." -finalfantasywikia
edited 3rd Dec '13 9:33:12 PM by Paktra
19 demarquis3rd Dec 2013 07:46:25 PM from Hell, USA
, Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
What about a gun in the handle that fires the blade as a projectile?
I do not compromise—I synthesize.
20 Paktra3rd Dec 2013 07:56:40 PM from
YOUR MOTHERBOARD, Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
•826-52|||•8116—29
What you're referring to is a ballistic knife.
Although usually spring loaded, there have been gas powered and, I want to say, firearm versions
◊ as well... like the NRS-2. A knife with a bullet in the grip.
edited 3rd Dec '13 9:31:26 PM by Paktra
21 Noaqiyeum4th Dec 2013 12:01:38 PM from the October Country
, Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
What about a sword (or long dagger) with a crossguard containing a gun barrel?
Anyone who looks dangerous is dangerous.
Anyone who doesn't look dangerous is dangerous and sneaky.
Anyone who doesn't look dangerous is dangerous and sneaky.
22 Paktra4th Dec 2013 12:32:24 PM from
YOUR MOTHERBOARD, Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
•826-52|||•8116—29
I will direct you to Cervantes de León, of Soul Caliber.
His Espada pistola de Nirvana 1
◊, 2
◊, and a real WWII-era "Katana Luger"
◊
edited 4th Dec '13 12:36:42 PM by Paktra
23 HandsomeRob4th Dec 2013 04:02:02 PM from Shining time station
, Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The freaky train with a face!
Both of those are quite similar to Kamen Rider Gaim's Musou Saber.
I guess that's the most practical form of a Gun sword.
…. I still prefer the fold out version, even if it's not too logical a design.
As a sentient train, I am morally against any kind of de-railing.
24 Paktra4th Dec 2013 04:41:18 PM from
YOUR MOTHERBOARD, Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
•826-52|||•8116—29
True... mainly because its just a fully functional gun on a fully functional sword nothing more.
However, if your still looking for a folding, bladed firearm, I will mention the gun blades
◊ of Final Fantasy 13.
Being in a separate, futuristic continuity from the old-school revolvers
◊ of FF 8, they are capable of transforming from sword
◊ to plasma weapon in one smooth butterfly knife-like motion.
◊
edited 4th Dec '13 4:43:38 PM by Paktra
25 HandsomeRob4th Dec 2013 05:12:06 PM from Shining time station
, Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The freaky train with a face!
I never gave the Final Fantasy 13 gun blades much thought, but I must admit: they look pretty slick.
As a sentient train, I am morally against any kind of de-railing.
