Real Life People Cleanup Project

Note: Fidel Castro was a playable character in the Tropico games.

We need more than one fictional depiction of Castro to justify having him in the game. And he also needs to be distinct from simply being a blend of The Generalissimo and Dirty Communist.

I found another page that's problematic on multiple levels - one for Pol Pot. It specifically calls him evil, it doesn't mention any fictional appearances by him (no Dead Kennedys discussion or link to The Killing Fields), I'm not sure he has enough fictional depictions, and there's a trope list for the man that includes tropes that don't belong for real people (like Artistic License – Economics, Moral Event Horizon, Culture Police, Evil Teacher, From Nobody to Nightmare... I could go on).

If there's enough fictional portrayals, I could see keeping this. But as it currently stands, it's one of the worst offenders of content policy on the wiki. I'm inclined to nuke it and restore a very limited version if there's enough depictions of him to recreate it.

edited 16th Aug '12 8:36:13 AM by 32_Footsteps

^I think we can simply cut Pol Pot until enough references show up for him to qualify for our status.

Also, we have hammered out the 3 references standard now, right?

Yeah, I'd say nuke the Pol Pot article.

Well, if the mods are good with the three-work qualifier, I'd say so.

Pol Pot has been sent to the Cut List.

I am happy with it. I haven't seen anyone chime in in contradiction of this, so I assume we're okay, unless Eddie decides otherwise.

Okay, I sat down with Eddie (metaphorically speaking) and hammered this out. Here's how I understand the proposed rules to work:

• Articles for Real Life historical/political figures belong in Useful Notes/. Any that remain in Main/ should be moved.
• To qualify for an article, a person must have a notable presence in fictional media. Per wiki tradition, we're applying a Rule of Three: there must be at least three examples of the person appearing as a character.
• The article for the person him/herself should avoid tropes about them as a person. It should only discuss tropes appearing in (a) their own work — speeches, books, whatever; (b) tropes appearing in fiction where they feature as a character.
• It should be written as a Useful Notes article. We aren't here to be dryly biographical; the point is to discuss fictional portrayals and how they relate to the real person. For the same reason, political soapboxing is absolutely verboten.
• If a person is better known as a creator of media than as a political figure, then they should have a Creator/ article instead.

These are good rules, but their implementation is probably better done in Special Efforts like the CM cleanup thread.

What about creators of fiction who themselves show up fairly often in fiction? We have two articles on Shakespeare, one as a playwright and the other as a character in fiction (the latter of which is woefully underwicked and I suspect has slipped past the radar), is that the model we should go for?

edited 16th Aug '12 11:20:14 AM by joeyjojojuniorshabadoo

For people who have both a significant presence as a character and as an author, I'd see no real reason not to have both a Useful Notes and a Creator article for them, with Main as a disambiguation. Shakespeare in Fiction is a terrible name, though. Nobody would ever think to look there.

edited 16th Aug '12 11:28:22 AM by Fighteer

If we have standards, maybe it's time to move this thread to Special Efforts. I found another puzzling inclusion - Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud. More neutral than the last one, but I don't know if he fits our bill either.

I'm starting to wonder just how widespread this is. It's like a phantom Wikipedia sprung up within TV Tropes.

Those things breed like flies if not contained. Moving to Special Efforts would seem to be in order.

I think we'll have to control all Useful Notes and Historical Domain Character pages to check for breeding grounds of these flies.

By the way, can we add a reference of these standards to Welcome to TV Tropes?

Already hollered for a move.

edited 17th Aug '12 8:07:17 AM by SeptimusHeap

Well, those pages need to be reviewed every so often anyhow.

Should we just start a new thread in Special Efforts, or should this one just be moved with Mod Magic(tm)?

Thread moved. I'd recommend you edit the OP with the summary I posted earlier and add the note about cases where someone is both a well-known author and a well-known character.

Will do.

Besides this thread, where are we going to place the guidelines for what real people get Useful Notes?

A brief mention on Three Rules Of Three?

eta: in the case of someone who is both a creator and a common character (like Shakespeare), I suggest making the as-a-character page into a subpage (or making a soft-split if there aren't enough examples to justify a subpage). Then we don't need to worry about wicks.

edited 17th Aug '12 3:06:51 PM by Xtifr

Adding the sandbox to the OP might be a good idea too.

Okay, Sandbox added to the OP. I wish there was a way to sort out the real folks via a quick search. I have no idea just how widespread this issue is (although the ibn Saud example hints it might be quite far, indeed). Though Historical Domain Character has a fairly decent list.

Commenting on a few entries, I have to note that Wikipedia pages often have lists of appearances in fiction attached. Try to check these out when considering an example.

Now..

• While Ron Paul strikes me as an Internet meme (and I hate these), he has three exampels from fiction. So he can stay under Useful Notes.
• Mikhail Gorbachev has only 2 examples, so the Cut List is the place.
• Adolf Hitler can easily stay, perhaps on Useful Notes since the article is currently strongly slanted towards reality.

I'd beg to differ on Ron Paul for two reasons. One, you're counting the same work (XKCD) twice. Two, one of the two mentions is an allusion to something that both he and a few other Internet "personalities" do.

I could go add more to Gorby's page... I'm debating with myself over whether or not I should.

New page for consideration: Fulgencio Batista. All the tropes listed are about him and none connected to media.

@Willbyr: Do you think the Batista page should be deleted?

EDIT: Just found three examples of depictions of him in media (two are movies, one a TV series). That applies, doesn't it?

edited 16th Sep '12 5:52:03 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

Please add them to the page. I don't know if that's enough to justify keeping the page, but it's better than nothing.

I did. Two are from movies, and one is from a TV series.