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Needs Help: Tulpa
Deadlock Clock: 19th Dec '12 11:59 PM
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Needs Help: Tulpa get usage counts

 1 peccantis, Sat, 19th May '12 5:08:21 AM Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
Ok, we have a typical YKTTW bypass.

First, the title: it is an existing term (see The Other Wiki), and seems to be used correctly AFAICT. However it is really obscure and should probably be switched for a more descriptive name.

Second, the description: it sounds a lot like "imaginary friend". The description begins by stating that a tulpa is "imaginary" and "a friend-like entity". "[It] differs from other imaginary friends in the fact that the character can actually see and hear it."

Then a really confusing part: "If the character must actively concentrate to keep the entity there, then it's an Imaginary Friend." So a tulpa is not fully dependable of the character's imagination? So it's not completely imaginary after all??

edited 19th May '12 5:10:02 AM by peccantis

before the darkness arrives
 2 tdgoodrich 1, Sat, 19th May '12 6:30:15 AM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Never Kiss A Gun Street Girl Again
Cut and send to YKTTW.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 3 JHM, Sat, 19th May '12 11:10:43 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
They haven't defined what a tulpa is very well. It's a Tibetan Buddhist concept; The Other Wiki has an article on it.

Basically, a tulpa is an entity similar to a familiar crated through extreme concentration, in essence applying "Your Mind Makes It Real" to an an imaginary friend. A tulpa may in theory also manifest to individuals who are not the original "creator" in a sort of folie deux effect.

It's a very difficult concept to describe, and fairly rare, but it's a pretty distinctive trope.

edited 19th May '12 11:11:00 PM by JHM

 4 tdgoodrich 1, Sun, 20th May '12 6:34:27 AM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Never Kiss A Gun Street Girl Again
[up]Regardless, this still needs to be sent to YKTTW. Usage counts show 1 wick (which is in Friendship Tropes so it doesn't count) and 0 inbounds. There is definitely a valid trope here (although perhaps Too Rare to Trope), but it needs to gather wicks and examples.

edited 20th May '12 6:35:22 AM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 5 Meta Four, Sun, 20th May '12 12:57:08 PM from the house of bread and battle
AXTUCE MUN AXTE INCAL
Didn't this concept show up in the short story "Tln, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius "? With objects rather than characters: If a person on Tln mistakenly believes that they've misplaced a possession and goes searching for it, they may find a spontaneously-created duplicate of the object.

edited 20th May '12 12:57:28 PM by MetaFour

 6 JHM, Sun, 20th May '12 5:45:31 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up] Yes, it does show up there. It's a major plot point, in fact, if you think of the later objects as being created by the same process.

The concept of the "thought-form made palpable (or at least visible) through willpower" is actually a reasonably common one, especially in literature with a lot of occult or spiritual references. It's just that it's not the sort of stuff that most tropers read much of, in my personal experience.
Siil a Rin
There's also a work inspired by the already mentioned Borges' story: one of the story arcs by Grant Morrison on Doom Patrol. 'Tis about a parallel world intersecting with ours called Orqwith, created in a similar way Tln was.

Doom Patrol also has a character named Dorothy that is able to imagine things into reality; and the Candlemaker, an egregore which is a related concept.

Maybe we could create a supertrope including Clap Your Hands If You Believe, Your Mind Makes It Real and such where imagination/belief/etc. causes something to exist. The concept of Tulpa could be added there. I don't know, I'm not too good at this.

edited 20th May '12 10:20:41 PM by Nirnaeth

World's Toughest Milkman
Cut and send to YKTTW. The description is too vague, the name needs work, the number of examples is minimal—all things that YKTTW is set up to handle.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 9 JHM, Mon, 21st May '12 3:34:56 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up][up] That's actually a fine idea.

[up] True.
 10 Meta Four, Mon, 21st May '12 8:58:11 PM from the house of bread and battle
AXTUCE MUN AXTE INCAL
Maybe we could create a supertrope including Clap Your Hands If You Believe, Your Mind Makes It Real and such where imagination/belief/etc. causes something to exist. The concept of Tulpa could be added there. I don't know, I'm not too good at this.
Gods Need Prayer Badly would also be a member of this trope family.
Lord of Castamere
Also Puff of Logic...
Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
Lord of Castamere
Bump. We still need to do something about this article.
Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
 13 ccoa, Tue, 17th Jul '12 9:41:16 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Looks like we have unanimous agreement to cut and send back to YKTTW.

So, are we making a supertrope, or remaking Tulpa? If the latter, I took a stab at the write-up:

In Budhist tradition, a physical form, be it an object, creature, or person, can be created through discipline and visualizing the object in question. Such an object or person is called a Tulpa, and has a physical form usually indistinguishable from the real thing.

In other words, this is a though-form made palpable (or at least visible) through willpower alone.

Compare Imaginary Friend, which is not physically present or visible to other characters.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Satan and his staff
How about this?

A tulpa, in certain branches of Buddhism, is an object (usually a living creature) which is brought into existence by sheer will and concentration. Sometimes also called "thoughtform", it is essentially a thought that has taken physical form, and an existence independent of its creator. In the Western world, the most famous account of tulpa creation is the story of explorer Alexandra David-Nel, who, in her "Magic and Mystery in Tibet", briefly described how she created a tulpa in the image of a jolly monk, which then turned evil, became visible to her fellow explorers, and had to be destroyed with great difficulty.

In fiction, tulpas tend to be Always Chaotic Evil and turn on their creator. They may be created deliberately or accidentally by thinking about something strongly (especially by someone who doesn't realize their Reality Warper powers), and sometimes even by multiple people in the world beieving the existence of something. May become someone's Not-So-Imaginary Friend.

See also The Power of Creation.

edited 16th Aug '12 2:06:29 PM by Korodzik

 15 ccoa, Thu, 16th Aug '12 2:09:20 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
That sounds fine to me.

Although no one has answered if we're remaking tulpa or making a Manifested From Willpower supertrope yet. Or both?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 16 Exelixi, Sat, 18th Aug '12 10:48:09 AM from Alchemist's workshop Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Lesbarian
I vote both.

Another really famous example of a Tulpa: Slenderman.

edited 18th Aug '12 10:49:08 AM by Exelixi

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
I say send this to the YKTTW to be fixed up a little and make the supertrope separate.
 
 18 Noaqiyeum, Wed, 17th Oct '12 9:07:32 AM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
[up][up] Depending on the Writer, anyway.

How does this relate to Not-So-Imaginary Friend?
"I'm an odd person that likes to write odd people." - JHM
 19 Oreochan, Wed, 17th Oct '12 11:34:49 AM from Pennsylvania
[up] While a Not-So-Imaginary Friend and a Tulpa both exist in-universe , a Not-So-Imaginary Friend cannot be seen by anyone other than the character who created it or knew of it's existence and is believed by other characters to not actually exist. Also, the Not-So-Imaginary Friend's existence might be treated as ambiguous in the story. On the other a hand, a tulpa can usually be seen by other people, and may even be created by multiple people. A tulpa can be non-animate object, while most Not So Imaginary Friends are not.

edited 17th Oct '12 11:59:48 AM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
 20 shoboni, Wed, 17th Oct '12 2:49:48 PM from Iowa, USA
I'd say cut, despite becoming a buzzword for some reason, it really has very few examples to discuss. It also seems like people are twisting things that show an hallucination of someone in a "what would my mentor say" moment to fit the trope.

Also, a Tulpa works so much like an imaginary friend to the audience that you really can't claim this trope unless Word of God says it's a Tulpa.

A Tulpa would just be a mild form of Your Mind Makes It Real anyway.

edited 17th Oct '12 3:03:55 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 21 Star Valkyrie, Wed, 17th Oct '12 3:04:06 PM Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
[up]Isn't the difference that your Imaginary Friend is only seen by you, but if other people start seeing it, talking to it, and being hurt by it, then its a Tulpa/other "thought form"? We don't seem to have a trope for thought forms other than this one.

edited 17th Oct '12 3:07:33 PM by StarValkyrie

 22 shoboni, Wed, 17th Oct '12 4:01:06 PM from Iowa, USA
No, a Tulpa is pretty much a self inflicted hallucination. Think like hearing voices but your mind gives the personalty a entire form instead of just a voice in your head.

So it's essentially a imaginary friend that you've given the reins of directly to you subconscious to the point where you don't have conscious control of it anymore.

edited 17th Oct '12 7:20:37 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 23 Noaqiyeum, Wed, 17th Oct '12 10:55:15 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
And anything beyond that is simply Folie A Deux?

EDIT: What, not a trope? Definitely should be.

edited 17th Oct '12 10:56:04 PM by Noaqiyeum

"I'm an odd person that likes to write odd people." - JHM
What's all this talk about tulpas being visible to other people?

My understanding of the buddhist concept is that it's effectively partitioning off a part of your mind and giving it a separate mental existence that you can converse with. It's very much an imaginary friend; a way to externalize something that you normally conceal so that you can deal with it and understand yourself better.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed you could psychically create a new object or person; it's all in your head as a method of meditative self-exploration.
 
 25 Fighteer, Thu, 18th Oct '12 8:38:33 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Back to YKTTW with thee, poorly named trope!
Ironically, the pursuit of the definition of happiness does not appear to be a happiness-maximizing behavior.
Total posts: 45
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