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Cure Candy
Ok this page is just vulgar and I mean seriously vulgar.... not just the main page too. I know the work is as bad as South Park but our page really does not need to be.

It is locked so I cant clean it up (and I dont really have a lot of time to do that) I was going to make a sandbox but it is already made [1] which seems old....

Here is a second sandbox [2] can we clean it up to be copied over?

edited 22nd Apr '12 12:36:50 AM by Raso

even older skool
You're referring to the page quote, I presume. Is there some other gratuitous profanity? I only glanced through the examples and the character page.

 3 The Handle, Sun, 22nd Apr '12 8:36:08 AM from Location, Location, Loca
I think we should allow the vulgarity when it comes to direct quotes. Still, the show is PG, it just pushes the envelope of what PG allows so hard it busts through the mail-sorting room and back around the world, killing some people in the process, with Efficient Displacement no less. But that's pretty much the entire point.

However, vulgarity in the descriptions can be avoided, often simply by virtue of changing the wording. There's no way around describing vulgar things taking place in the show, but one can do so by taking a very detached, neutral, strictly descriptive tone. If we end up looking Comically Serious like The Other Wiki, then so be it. Praising the vulgarity should be allowed though, but not in the sense of the fictional events being approved of as such ("Panty fucking those fuckers is so fucking awesome and she's so smoking hot!"): the evaluation, negative or positive, should be on the work as a work of fiction ("Panty's promiscuity is used to great effect as a way of highlighting a "Yes to Life", proactive, "Take things yourself, otherwise you won't get anything" mentality, and there is a wonderful irony, a comical incongruity, in such a Dionysian entity being nominally an Angel, Apollonian entities par excellence, and messengers and enforcers of Christianity and their slave morality of meekness, submission, obligation, and guilt. The perfect representative of said morality in this story is Briefs... His Bishounen, Hot-Blooded moments correspond exactly to the points where he casts off obligation and acts truly out of his own will, forcefully pushing aside those who would stand in the way of his will. And Garterbelt just pays lip service to it: he shouts a lot at the angels to make them fulfill their obligations, but he doesn't try very hard to follow up on that hypocrisy. He is, deep inside, sympathetic to them, as he himself has, throughout his millenia-long life, shown that he always acted out of his own indomitable will, and literally spit in the face of God. When he decided to serve God, it wasn't out of fear or out of being broken down by the suffering inflicted unto him, but out of his own will, derived from his own, hard-earned understanding of the human condition.")

Fuck, I went overboard a little. You can tell I've been reading Nietzsche... and after Gurren Lagann, I am now convinced someone in GAINAX is a staunch Vitalist. And also very, very good at blurring his tracks by abusing the Sliding Scale of Silliness Versus Seriousness... and if anything is Dionysian, it's unashamed and unabashed silliness.
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
love lockdown, you lose.
Okay, so in going through this page, I'm thinking that anything that delves into explicit detail about the more vulgar aspects of the show is out? Before I edit, I want to make sure I'm on the right track. Because I'm thinking this entry:

"Atop a Mountain of Corpses: Panty often sits atop a pile made by all the guys she has just screwed."

Is probably okay, maybe just find another synonym for screwed. But this entry under Barbie Doll Anatomy:

"Panty in "High School Nudical", though it's only for a split second you could notice. Also averted with her in the same episode, just a few moments before. Though not quite detailed, due to the art style of the show, her nipples are clearly visible."

Should have the weirdly detailed mentions of nipples taken out. I hope I'm on the right track with this, because I'm not going to change anything until I'm sure I'm not deleting needless things.
 5 The Handle, Tue, 24th Apr '12 9:14:02 AM from Location, Location, Loca
[up]You call that weirdly detailed?! And "screw" isn't censored, not even by the FCC. Which is fortunate, because it serves to connotate the nature of what happens: Panty doesn't "make love", she doesn't "have sex", Panty uses men and then throws them away like wet tissue: sex is simply her favorite sport.
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
We can remove the nipples bit, because it's not an example, not because it's lewd.

love lockdown, you lose.
[up][up] It's weirdly detailed considering that the trope it was under was Barbie Doll Anatomy. Which, you know, is all about the absence of anatomy.

Clearly I am not the person to be helping out with this.
 8 lebrel, Tue, 24th Apr '12 9:43:10 AM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Just note that Barbie Doll Anatomy is inconsistently applied, which is not uncommon. (Brief glimpses of nipple are tolerated in works where a full-on view of anatomically correct toplessness would not, so works will switch back and forth depending on the context.)
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
Why are we cataloging in which frames female characters' nipples can and can not be seen?

Why would anybody think that would be worth cataloging?
Never build a character piecemeal out of tropes.
 10 Septimus Heap, Tue, 24th Apr '12 12:49:28 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
[up]Because it's used for storytelling.

 11 lu 127, Tue, 24th Apr '12 12:51:05 PM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
It's a censorship trope. That's what we're cataloguing, not the boobs.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
Cure Candy
Maybe just put

edited 24th Apr '12 12:56:32 PM by Raso

 13 The Handle, Tue, 24th Apr '12 12:55:54 PM from Location, Location, Loca
[up]I like your version.

EDIT: I've been editing it, I've gotten as far as "Foreign Cuss Word". Gosh, this page is long.

edited 24th Apr '12 2:13:20 PM by TheHandle

I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 14 Ramidel, Wed, 25th Apr '12 2:51:49 AM Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

I propose we fix the unnecessary cussword. Something like...

 15 The Handle, Wed, 25th Apr '12 4:33:17 AM from Location, Location, Loca
I think that's a little insufficient. How about: "This show follows Rule of Funny with top priority over anything else, and goes the Refuge in Vulgarity route about it most of the time, so anything that would be remotely sexy in any other setting will be presented in a comically and/or incongruously repulsive way: Rule of Sexy is entirely dominated by Rule of Funny."

Or maybe "Rule of Sexy is mistreated, abused, exploited, and otherwise completely dominated by Rule of Funny, and this show gets most of its funnies through Refuge in Audacity and Refuge in Vulgarity, so don't expect any of the usual gentle titillation other shows may have accustomed you to: you will be squicked, either by the sheer impossible magnitde of what you will see, or at its strange and unusual nature. Either way, expect incongruity."
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
Or how about: Two Words: Fan Disservice.

Those descriptions are certainly colorful, and they border on poetic, but oughtn't they instead specify some examples of fan disservice? It needn't go episode by episode, but something like "Grampa consistently forgets to put on his pants" or "Bertha often parades around in just her underwear and her victims' intestines"?

edited 25th Apr '12 4:49:06 AM by Routerie

Pronounced YAK-you-luss
[up][up]To borrow from Fast Eddie's sig: "Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty. Acceptable: Clear."

That's just a load of purple blather.
Freedom of speech includes the freedom for other people to call you out on your bullshit.
 18 The Handle, Wed, 25th Apr '12 6:46:08 AM from Location, Location, Loca
[up]Are you suggesting we choose one example out of the whole blasted thing?

Okay, I really didn't want to do this, but how about:
  • "While Garterbelt complains about paper tissue shortages, Panty, without prompting or provocation, suggestively (as in, with a close up of her licking her lips in lush detail) offers to help him with his predicament. It is disservice because it is completely inappropriate to the situation and comes off as very jarring."
  • "Panty and some guy pick each other noses while behaving exactly as if they were having steamy sex. It is disservice because of the weird and disgusting nature of what they are doing (not like normal sex can't be weird and disgusting in its own way). Perhaps I am reaching out, but this might be a shout out to Oscar Wilde's novel My Uncle Oswald, where the protagonist explains his reluctance to be a Peeping Tom by explicitly comparing having sex and picking one's nose: it's okay to do it by yourself, but it's a rather awkward and disgusting to watch for anyone else."

I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 19 Septimus Heap, Wed, 25th Apr '12 6:49:04 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
I've reactivated Sandbox.Panty And Stocking With Garterbelt for the current cleanup effort. After it's done, we can holler to get it swapped with the main page and this thread closed.

[up][up]I'm not sure either of those are Fan Disservice. Those are just disgusting. The sort of stuff we put on squick before we had enough and removed its examples.

Fan disservice is a situation that would be fanservice - someone in skimpy clothing or no clothing at all - except made horrific.

 21 The Handle, Wed, 25th Apr '12 11:17:44 AM from Location, Location, Loca
[up]The problem is that Panty is such a massive slut on such a massive scale, everything sexual she ever does is disgusting. Even her transformation sequences, which are downright viewtiful, come off as weird because of the stark contrast between the soft expression she wears during them as opposed to her harsh and abrasive personality (and voice) she uses elsewhere. You have to wonder how stunningly beautiful she must be in-universe, because it's hard to imagine why anyone would ever want to meet her, let alone have sex with her. Hm, let me see...

  • Garterbelt gets near-naked for the final fight. He's muscular and buff alright, but between the fact that he is Comically Serious and has the charm of a thrown half-brick, his horribly scarred body, and the literal panties, fishnet stockings, and garter-belt he is wearing, Female Gaze is pretty much averted. Same with his opponent Corset, when he throws his shirt off, Of Corsets Not Sexy At All: he keeps tightening it obsessively, with whip-like sounds, and is downright painful to watch.
  • The Demon Sisters have a fanservicey transformation sequence... except their ferocious expressions, with their demonic red skin, sickly-green, snake-like eyes, razor-sharp fangs, and pointy horns, you don't feel like you're being serviced, you feel like you're being served.
  • The Sweet-Factory demon shows up shirtless. She has massive boobs. Six of them. Which she uses to dispense industrial amounts of milk. Using her six arms. This milk goes into pastries. That are later sold to people.
  • Chuck and Fastener's homunculi have sex. They don't have sex in any particularly disgusting way, but the circumstances that have allowed them to get together are horrifying in an Eraserhead kind of way that's pretty hard to describe.

I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
OK, how about this?

  • Fan Disservice: It's a Sex Comedy crossed with a Gross Out Show. Of course this is going to crop up. In the interests of brevity (and our readers' stomachs), though, let's just say there's lots of examples and move swiftly on.
Freedom of speech includes the freedom for other people to call you out on your bullshit.
 23 lebrel, Wed, 25th Apr '12 11:53:39 AM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
[up] Like.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 24 shimaspawn, Wed, 25th Apr '12 11:55:48 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up][up] Very nice.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 25 The Handle, Wed, 25th Apr '12 12:06:21 PM from Location, Location, Loca
[up][up][up]I like my version better, brevity be damned, but sure, I can't really object to yours, except for the fact that it seems to assume the readers are utter pansies who will be traumatized by anything. I still remember the flak we got (get?) for the Nightmare Fuel pages.

If you're one of those who worry about "TVT's image", showing attraction or repulsion to the lurid, naughty and awful is a surefire way of getting mocked: either you will be called a creep or a wimp. Intensity, on the other hand, is easier to get away with, as long as it's neutral, and, IMHO, intensity is what makes this site fun to read, not endorsement or condemnation.
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
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