Page Restoration Petitions

Should this be in Wiki Talk, or Special Efforts?

Manga.Under Grand Hotel (are we supposed to merely list it, or give an explanation for why we think it should be reinstated?)

Since people seem to be doing the latter: Deleted because it was (inappropriately) on the hentai index. This is action/romance, with some fairly explicit erotic content, but in line with others of its genre (which is Boys' Love Genre, not hentai). Admittedly a dark work (it was inspired by Oz); there's more violent/disturbing content than sex. All characters are adult.

edited 15th Apr '12 6:46:10 PM by lebrel

Manga.Eiken and its subpages. Cutlist reason was Ecchi with pedophilia.

Petition: At no point is there any explicit sex involving underage characters, so unless whoever cut the article is using a much broader definition of pedophilia/pedoshit/pedowank material than I thought we are supposed to use, this particular cutlist (and subsequent cut) is very much a case of misinformation.

VisualNovel.Fate Stay Night and its subpages. Was accidentally caught in the mass-cut of the Hentai index's listed tropes and works. It is not pornographic; the total amount of sex scenes in its entirety forms only a small fraction of the visual novel (rough guesstimates put it at 5%), are not that central to the storyline, and aren't even that explicit by usual porn standards.

edited 15th Apr '12 6:22:08 PM by MarqFJA

Are we allowed to explain why works SHOULDN'T be considered for reinstatement?

My personal take (and I don't know what FE's take is) is that sure, you can, but this thread is not to argue in.

Lolita: It's not very explicit, is pretty obviously anti-pedophilia, and is a rather historically important and influential work of literature that really needs a page.

This is Eiken. Looks bad to me.

Ken Park: Critics are split about 50-50 as to whether it's porn or art. We might as well document the controversy, although it probably shouldn't have a YMMV page.

{{9 Songs}}: Full of explicit sex, but generally agreed not to be porn, and has provoked at least one critical essay (which I unfortunately can't find) explaining why it (along with Shortbus, which I think we still have a page for) shouldn't be condemned for having sex in it. (That essay instead said that they should be considered godawful movies, but we're in the business of documenting the awful as well as the good, right?)

Morven: So, you can state a rebuttal, but don't derail the thread? Don't keep responding to cases for or against works?

edited 15th Apr '12 6:40:12 PM by Akagikiba

@Fast Eddie: Your response clearly implies that we are using widely divergent definitions here. Can you state in unambiguous wording what "pedophilia(-friendly)" is supposed to mean in terms of TV Tropes policy? AFAIK, we were only targetting explicit sex involving underage(-looking) characters.

This.

edited 15th Apr '12 6:48:35 PM by MarqFJA

It's not outright porn. There is censorship in that image.

It's fine if you consider that and anything else that is merely titillating porn despite whatever plot it may have or how much explicitness it has. Just know that a lot of things will disappear as well if your standard is that strict.

edited 15th Apr '12 6:43:54 PM by encrypted12345

Good people: this is not the policy discussion thread. This is the restoration petition thread.

Guys, if this thread starts derailing to discussions about the standards or even arguments about specific works, then it won't be usable for its stated purpose.

I think if you are against reviewing a cut, then if it does get reviewed you will hopefully have the chance to argue for re-cutting.

I'd very much like Lolita to be restored. It's a classic work of literature that's now available at probably every single library and bookstore in American and Europe (it was banned at one point).

But more relevantly, it's about a Villain Protagonist and his molestation of an underage female character is something he deludes himself into thinking is a loving relationship, but destroys his victim's life, and is clearly presented to the reader as very wrong.

Agreed. Lolita is not explicit and is intended to present the Villain Protagonist in a negative light. It is no more pro-pedophilia then Hannibal is pro-cannibalism. And yes, my local library carries it.

edited 15th Apr '12 7:01:27 PM by Catbert

As someone who has actually seen Eiken (It was late night at the convention and there was nothing else going on, and besides Bile Fascination) I can state that while it is in extremely poor taste, and a horrible piece of work—it is neither actual pornography nor does it contain pedophilia. All the characters, even the short relatively innocent-looking girl, have reached puberty, and none of them have sex during the storyline.

Lolita needs to be restored. Blah, classic literature. Blah, anti-pedophilia. Blah, beautifully written. Blah

Blah

Also, one of the characters of Eiken is a twelve year-old with giant breasts. Twelve years old. Giant breasts. Just... throwing that out there.

Eiken was made for fapping purposes.

edited 15th Apr '12 7:04:28 PM by Akagikiba

How old are the characters and are they in middle or high school?

@Catbert- Off-topic, but I'm of the opinion that Hannibal basically is a rip-off of Humbert with cannibalism substituted for pedophilia. They are pretty similar in aristocratic background and very freudian freudian excuses for their behavior.

edited 15th Apr '12 7:01:43 PM by Jordan

For the main cast: One in sixth grade (the one with the biggest Gag Boobs; at age ~12, she's barely within the medically accepted range for reaching biological puberty, and might be exhibiting an implausibly extreme form of this real-life medical condition), the rest are in varying grades of high school.

She's at the right age for being an early pubescent from a medical standpoint. See also the above link in my post.

edited 15th Apr '12 7:07:26 PM by MarqFJA

Not advocating for or against but Pokemon has 10 year old's with big breasts as well. To make a comparison.

edited 15th Apr '12 7:13:05 PM by Vyctorian

Lolita needs to be added back in, for reasons others have mentioned. It's a masterpiece taught in highschools.

Fate Stay Night should be back in, because the version everyone's familiar with is non pornographic and all it's sequels and spin offs aren't porn either. Hell even the PS 2 version of the VN contains no porn. Just put a header on it saying your covering the non porn version or something.

Also if we can add things here that need to be cut: Debbie Does Dallas, Bible Black, Chronicles of Gor, and FATAL need to go.

edited 15th Apr '12 7:10:15 PM by TheManInBlack

Fate Stay Night should be brought back. The hentai portions are barely there(there's only... two or three scenes in each route, among a lot of none-h material), and they aren't the focus at all.