Rape Trope renames.

Wow, all this happened overnight? Jeez.

Re Abusively Sexy: I'm not very familiar with any of the examples on the page for female version (now Bastard Girlfriend), so I don't know how that plays out, but the Bastard Boyfriend, which I know intimately, is overwhelmingly likely to be sexually abusive; in many cases that's the only kind of abuse involved. And the point is to be titillating to the audience, although the victim usually gets turned on. So Attracted To Abuse would be a very bad name. Abuse Played For Titilation is the best of the ones proposed so far, but it's a bit clunky. Fanservice Molestation?

Re Its Not Rape If You Enjoyed It: I don't really like any of the proposals, they're either too broad or unclear. Not Rape If You Enjoyed It Defense?

Re Rape as Redemption, the description doesn't suggest it's a "villain becomes hero" change, so Rape Face Turn doesn't seem to work. Rape Causes Morality?

Re making Rape Tropes into Sexual Misconduct Tropes: the new name would be a lot broader, and it would include stuff like The Peeping Tom and a bunch of things on This Index Is Full of Perverts . Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Not all items on Rape Tropes are actually about rape in most cases. That's why Sexual Misconduct Tropes is a proposal.

This Index Is Full of Perverts should be about character types.

This should be about acts.

Yes. Doing these acts to someone in public should get you dangerous looks or get reported almost immediately. Peeping toms are not really that big of an issue if they don't make it explicit enough and can't be easily spotted.

edited 7th Apr '12 1:07:50 PM by Oreochan

@ 277 : Yes, but there are forms of sexual misconduct that have nothing to do with rape. Adultery is sexual misconduct. Do we want to keep the content of the index about the same (in which case a more specific name would be preferable), or do we to broaden it to include other types of stuff?

edited 7th Apr '12 1:05:33 PM by lebrel

The kind that is forbidden in most laws and courts. Adultery can't really get you locked up.

edited 7th Apr '12 1:09:39 PM by Oreochan

This should be about Sexual Harassment acts and such Right now that is what these tropes cover even if most are under the title of "Rape".... Again I refer to Double Standard: Rape, Female on Female.... A lot of them would be considered Skinship Grope, molestation and at max Rape but its ok because its Female On Female.

edited 7th Apr '12 1:10:12 PM by Raso

Being a peeping tom is forbidden in most laws. Sexual harrasment is forbidden under most laws. Being a flasher is forbidden under most laws. None of those are currently under this index. Should they be under the new improved index?

edited 7th Apr '12 1:10:45 PM by lebrel

I think we should combine these indices into one. This Index Is Full of Perverts and Rape Tropes.

edited 7th Apr '12 1:13:08 PM by Oreochan

I think yes, if we have tropes for that.

OK, then Sexual Misconduct Tropes is fine. Although if you want to keep it to actions rather than characters, as suggested above, then it's still a bit broad.

edited 7th Apr '12 1:13:26 PM by lebrel

Yeah, characters should be right out, this should be about the works and how they treat this issue. The characters are often used to bring this point home but should not be on the proposed index. I think characters should go somewhere but I don't know.

For Its Not Rape If You Enjoyed It —-> Rape Corrupts Morality? So it doesn't matter if you are The Hero or The Big Bad, rape can potentially change your entire world view.

edited 7th Apr '12 1:35:02 PM by Oreochan

Hmm...I think that one needs to be similar to the current name. It's a disturbingly common sentiment, as far as I can tell. I mean, I know a lot of people (mostly girls, oddly) who make jokes that "you can't rape the willing," and etc. Maybe we could name it Cant Rape The Willing? Ugh, either way it sounds awful, but it is a legitimate trope.

That directly contradicts what you said in 284. Did you just change your mind in the intervening 5 minutes, or are you not aware that This Index Is Full of Perverts is specifically about character types?

How the hell did you get from Its Not Rape If You Enjoyed It to Rape Corrupts Morality? Are you thinking of Rape as Redemption? That's currently described as rape making an uppity or slutty woman change to a more chaste / respectable /modest personality. Rape Changes The Victims Morality might cover both the existing trope and the proposed inverse.

edited 7th Apr '12 1:43:15 PM by lebrel

Noting that I think I'll tackle Rape Tropes if we come up with a name for it.

That would be a good name for Aren't You Going to Ravish Me? actually.

Like I said earlier, the tropes are a mess, and I generally avoid rape in works anyway, so all I know is what the descriptions and the examples are telling me ar implying. So, I'm not very familiar with rape anyway, sorry. I just felt like I had to do something... I'm naturally sleep deprived anyway and this robbing me away form almost all of my sleep hours... I naturally contradict my self.

I think I have to take a vacation for few weeks or so. Due to the more pressing Real life thing... I was generally neutral about this stuff until the main thread. I would rather help fix tropes, help people with english and YKTTW in general. Spending too much time on this is unsettling for me but this is as urgent as a Red Alert and I want to do something.

edited 7th Apr '12 2:24:02 PM by Oreochan

@ Oreo, then why don't you work on cleaning up some of the other sex related tropes if you want to help? There are still a lot of Fanservice tropes that need their examples gone through and have explicit material removed. If you're more comfortable there, you can do that and still help.

All right I'll take a stab at Porn Tropes and sex tropes then. We should have a sandbox for that too.

edited 7th Apr '12 2:29:49 PM by Oreochan

Open up a new thread for Porn Tropes first, and then create a sandbox page.

Made the sandbox, but do we have to look at Abuse Tropes too?

Yes, to see if they are getting explicit Gorn or abuse glorifying examples. Should I make another thread for us to check the Murder Tropes and Abuse Tropes?

edited 7th Apr '12 2:58:48 PM by Oreochan

I would usually keep all the discussion in one thread so that there can be coordination, but I'll leave it to other people here.

So should I broaden my thread about possible explicit content that are not the Rape Tropes and holler for a title change? I can do that if we want to.

edited 7th Apr '12 3:03:02 PM by Oreochan

Would Rape Portrayed as Redemption be better for Rape as Redemption.