The Constructive Criticism Thread

Alrighty, thank you very much!

Glad I could help. The Aphid's been PMed.

Yello. I'd like to get some advice on my novel, Shattered Perception. It is a work of science fiction that pretends to be fantasy, with deplorably short chapters. I'm trying, okay? :P

I'd like to know how I'm doing with scene description, with the battles, with the twist in chapter fourteen (I think) specifically, and just with things in general. I would be super appreciative to anyone who can find the time to read the entire thing, because I've been really struggling writing these last few chapters.

It's been almost four weeks, how has everybody been doing?

yeah, this seems to be taking quite awhile.

I've been giving everyone two-three weeks because the forum's been so slow- if people were getting a lot out of their critique sessions, even if they get critique from just one person, I'd be cutting it off at a week like in the old days.

Moreover, have any of you considered trying your hand at critiquing while you wait? Critiquing, I've found, is actually a pretty efficient way to improve your own writing, because it gets you not only reading, but studying writing for improvements and thinking through what affects your experience as a reader. This thread's also at its best when multiple people are offering input- it's not fair to people who come here for me to be the only one giving critiques. Especially since I'm not that experienced of a reader, I have my own writing to worry about, and between work, school, and family obligations, I don't really have as much mental energy to spend here as I'd like. I've also been sick this whole week, which doesn't help matters.

Sigh. If only we could update OP's post to include at the top of every page...

I wish I had the attention span to critique everything. Unfortunately, my focus narrows itself too much at times. But I think I'll try to make a better effort and help out. (Although I may need the occasional kick-in-the-pants reminder.)

edited 8th Jun '17 9:24:35 PM by AwSamWeston

The common problem might be because, well, they not see any issues with their work. Now before you say anything, it's true. Back in the day, I had the ego the size of a brontosaurus. I thought my art was worthy enough to be commented on. That's until someone actually critque on my style. They said it was stiff, lacked backgrounds, and was the boring old 3/4 view. This has taught me something, critque can help just as much as critiquing yourself (in some cases even more so). Not to say you don't need feedback from others, but varying opinions can help make your work appeal to others. If you tried feedback yourself, it might be limiting unless you trying to correct a grammar mistake. I might be dead wrong as I usually am so take this a grain to salt. But overall, but you can go so far see what's wrong without any input but there's a time when seeing others feedback is nice.

Which comes to this question, can you ever live a life where you're blissfully unaware your work is terrible due to the fact that no had said any form of crticism? Not even yourself?

Let's not get into philosophical questions about the nature of criticism here.

If you read a piece of fiction and genuinely, honestly can't find anything wrong about it, that confused you on first read, or that bothered you, that's worth mentioning, as is asking the writer if they had any more specific concerns. Thoughts and personal impressions of the piece's feel, style, plot, characters, setting, themes, how it felt to read the piece in general, what you think's going to happen next, and/or whether you'd keep reading are all valid things to talk about in a critique.

Don't overthink it. *goes back to work*

Yeah, same here. I'm also a pretty slow reader, so it takes me longer to really process and evaluate a written piece.

That, and I guess I felt I wasn't qualified to contribute. The Aphid has put forth a serious original novel to be critiqued, and meanwhile I'm waiting in the queue with a crossover fanfic.

Regardless, I still feel bad for not doing my share, so I'll try to give my honest thoughts. I just read the first two chapters this morning, and so far it's pretty solid. Connor in particular seems like a pretty amusing character so far, and I'm eager to see more of him. My only complaint is that the pacing seems a little too rushed; I would have liked to see a little more time spent showing Sam's family getting settled into their new home, since it'll obviously be a big adjustment for them.

edited 11th Jun '17 11:45:01 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest

that reminds me, i haven't critique either. i kinda did but not by much of an extent on the novel. so sorry aphid.

I've read the first 3 chapters, and so far this is severely lacking in details and exposition. As Tye Dye Wildebeest said, the pacing is too fast, the scenes switch from one to another too quickly, I was lost at times while reading. The scenes go straight to the action without being properly established. The lack of info worked in the prologue, since it left the reader intrigued and wondering, but in the novel proper it leads to lack of characterization. The more we know about the characters, the easier it is for us to emphasize with them. Three chapters in, and I still have no idea what Sam, our protagonist, even looks like.

You need to give a lot of info about Sam's life and, more importantly, his opinions on the aspects of his life. There is no real need to rush the action (unless it's an action scene).

If this helps, here are the questions that popped up in my head during the reading:

In "Things in Motion":

First, what year is this? I assumed this is USA, what city is this? What time of day is it? Since Rob was eating, and the whole family was present, I assumed it was either breakfast- or dinnertime. Who cooked the meal? Does Sam like the meal? Can he cook? Do the family own a house they live in or they rent an apartment? How big is it? Where is it located? Does Sam like the neighborhood? Do the family employ a housemaid? If not, then who does the chores? Does Sam like doing the chores? What the dining room looks like? What Kim looks like, in detail, besides the afro? Since Sam is seventeen, and has an older brother, I assumed she is in her forties. Does she look her age, or she is like Monica Bellucci, blessed with youthful looks?

Then there's next scene, already in Japan. How much time has passed? How did the flight across the Pacific go? Was it the first time Sam flew? What does the school look like? What the classroom Sam is in looks like? The students in Japan are required to wear uniforms. What does it look like? How many people attended the test? Two important characters are established. What Hiroko looks like, in detail? Does Sam consider her attractive? Does Sam consider Connor attractive?

Next scene, with the test results. It is not properly established. Where exactly does it take place? How many people are there? What is the procedure of new students admission in Japan?

In "Parallax":

So, the family moved in the new house. Every person leaves a print of his personality on his domicile, and especially on his bedroom, and I really wanted to know what Sam's room looks like, and how he keeps it. This is a good chance to show a bit of Sam's personality through the description of his room. For example, is he a slob?

Then, Sam goes out of the house to the park. How far is it? How is the weather? Does Sam like the weather? What does the park look like? How many people are there?

Then, the creature appears. What its looks are similar to? Is it humanoid? Does Sam consider it, you know...?

Other criticisms: the action scene, in which the pacing is a bit slow. There's too much talking. It wasn't clear if they are talking as they fight or the monster politely stops his attacks and lets them finish the conversation.

I don't know whether it will be important in the next few chapters, but I think that the scene with the detective in the prologue is a bit redundant, since he describes what we already saw in the beginning. Again, I've read only three chapters, so I might be wrong.

I also don't know whether it will be addressed, but the monster used fireballs and left the park, a public place, in ruins. Does Ben's organization cover such things up?

The grammar, as far as I can tell, is good. The writing style is clear, the scene with Kim, Ben and Sam is bizarrely funny.

Will try to give critique (if you need it) on the rest of the novel this weekend.

edited 9th Jun '17 12:26:46 PM by Millership

Thank you! I know I have a problem with pacing and description, and hearing specific things I can expand upon is really helpful. I'm going over the chapters now. I have such a clear picture in my head of what everyone and everything looks like, I just gloss over stuff, and I worry about making things too slow if I add too much >.>;

I'm glad you like Connor, Tye Dye. He's probably my favourite character to write.

I guess I should describe the Ogyug's face, huh :/ Sam doesn't think Connor is attractive, but there will be some ship-teasing between him and an as of where you are not yet introduced character later on.

So, right. Add more thoughts and details. Got it. I do need critiques on later chapters, where description is less scarce—as this community has noted of my fanfiction, when I'm not giving too few details, I tend towards purple prose. And do the battle scenes still have poor pacing? Many thanks.

edited 17th Jun '17 10:49:58 PM by TheAphid

Alrighty, looks like things have slowed down. Any other comments or criticisms can be carried out in PMs. Tye Dye Wildebeest has been contacted.

Alrighty then! I'd like to get some feedback on my crossover fic, The Connie-Ronnie Switcheroo. It's a crossover between The Loud House and Steven Universe, based around an alternate universe where Connie Maheswaran and Ronnie Anne Santiago- the quasi-love interests of Steven and Lincoln, respectively- have switched places entirely.

Right now I'm five chapters in, and I want to know if I'm off to a good start, particularly in regards to the pacing (is it too slow?) and the prose (could some parts use some more detail/description?).

Considering that you're five chapters in and already have three times as many followers as my thirteen-chapter fanfic, I'd say you're doing pretty well >.>;

As far as I can tell, the pacing is perfect. The reference to Rick Sanchez made me chuckle. (I actually had a Rickstaverse dream last night. I died in it.)

I'm impressed by your ability to convey personality—I hadn't up to this point planned on watching any Loud House, since I normally don't like sitcoms, but you have me engaged with Lincoln and his family anyway.

The only nitpick I can think of right now is that physical characteristics are sparse in the first bit. This fic is obviously geared at people who have seen either or both series, but talking about faces is never a bad thing. I actually have more questions for you than critiques... so I guess that's it. :P

Thanks for the feedback! I'm thrilled that my fic was able to engage you even though you're not a fan of the source material (well, The Loud House, anyway; IDK how you feel about Steven Universe).

As far as physical character descriptions go... I'll be honest, I've always had a bit of trouble working those into the narrative naturally, particularly for characters I'd expect most of my readers to already know. I think I did a decent job describing Steven in Chapter 1 and Pearl in Chapter 3, but in those two instances it was justified because Ronnie Anne was meeting them for the first time.

That said, I came into this thread to improve myself, so I thought I'd ask; what's the best way to go about it? How do I work in details about, say, Lincoln's chalk-white hair or Ronnie Anne's mocha complexion, when neither of those details are really relevant to the scene?

(Also, you mentioned that you had more questions than critiques, and I'm a little curious what those questions are.)

edited 25th Jun '17 8:22:29 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest

Be careful about describing dark skin tones with food analogies, lest it comes off as racist. This guide may be helpful.

edited 25th Jun '17 8:09:36 AM by hellomoto

Ooh, thanks for the heads up. Didn't know that was considered offensive.

Well, I like to describe hair by having a character fiddle with theirs. For example, from my novel: "Sam scratched at his blonde pompadour." You can also have a different character make a remark about a distinguishing feature. "Wow, your eyes are really blue." "Your silver hair reminds me of your mother..." Also, never forget mirrors, since they reflect perfect images. Except when they don't.

My questions are less to do with your works as with your talent—"Will you tutor me?", "How would you rewrite my stuff if you had to?", that kind of thing. The only things I'm good at writing are scripts, since I don't have to worry about disrupting the flow with scene details and I can be as flowery as Christopher Nolan :P

EDIT: I wrote "for example" twice >_<

edited 25th Jun '17 9:53:09 AM by TheAphid

Keep in mind though, that Description in the Mirror is kinda a Sturgeons Trope. Using it is discouraged, as it's easy to get it wrong.

Concerning physical descriptions of characters in general, a rule of thumb is to follow the The Law of Conservation of Detail or it will become a Description Porn if overdone (which is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself if it's written well enough). A question one needs to ask himself is "What this description tells the reader about the character and/or the world he lives in?" If the description of Lincoln's chalk-white hair or Ronnie Anne's mocha complexion doesn't answer that question, then it doesn't need to be there (The fandom of Steven Universe and The Loud House, the target audience, are already familiar with the appearance of the characters, so their physical descriptions should be limited only to traits that would make them recognizable).

As to how to incorporate it into the narrative, then it depends on the type of the narrative. If you're using third-person omniscient narrator, then to devote a short, straightforward, 2-3 sentence paragraph to the description of the character just after you introduced him is acceptable, I think (but that depends on the tempo of the scene he's introduced in. Descriptions slow down the pace). There's also, as The Aphid said, the technique of describing the character's physical traits while he's interacting with the world around him, something like "Ceallagh digs her long dark fingers into the ground and earth does not respond to her touch."

I hope this helps.

edited 25th Jun '17 5:47:22 PM by Millership

It does. I think ultimately I'm going to go with the method The Aphid suggested (mentioning their traits offhand as they interact with the world around them), but that guide you provided will definitely come in handy in the future. Thanks!

...oh. Oh, gee, I... uh...

Yeah. I wasn't just cracking wise when I potholed Mirror Universe and Tomato in the Mirror—those are excellent ways to use mirrors. Remember that tropes are tools, and that subverting, playing with, or zigzagging them can be an effective spell to raise the dead. In a first-person story that I've since abandoned as a book and plan to make into a TV show instead, the self-aware protagonist looks in the mirror after gaining his powers and describes, "I looked in the mirror and saw a leafy, green-skinned monster trapped in a badly-written superhero novel." Or something like that. I lost the manuscript and am basically ripping the Description in the Mirror quote >.>; But you get the point.

Is it possible to critique on world building? Someone told me my post on world building didn't belong there. Well it did but it was more about sharing a take on something.

The rules to this thread state that only actual writing is to be critiqued, and not character sheets, concepts, outlines, summaries, worldbuilding, or any other writing created as production documents or supplemental material. So the answer is no; please don't ask for critique on worldbuilding here.

That brings me to the subject of the Worldbuilding subforum. I've been lurking there on and off the last few days, and the notion that you should not post worldbuilding material for critique in the worldbuilding subforum unless presented in a particular way is baffling to me. Worldbuilding and Writer's Block have significant overlap due to the prevalence of speculative fiction writers here, I get that, but worldbuilding and storytelling (which I think Writer's Block is intended to be about) are honestly their own separate beasts. I'll look into what's going on over there some more.

Also, Dokemon Studios is up.

edited 1st Jul '17 1:03:09 PM by CrystalGlacia