Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
The Unknown Unknown
I want something clarified. Is the problem with Badass Longcoat the "Badass + Trait" problem or its fundamental definition?
Or both?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
I'm not sure there is any problem with Badass Longcoat, at least inherently (there may well be shoehorning, because tropers). "Character wears long coat to show they're a badass" seems pretty clear to me.
There's an old crowner about what to do with it: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/SingleProposition/BadassLongcoat?open=all#5fifdhb4.
The only option right now is to rename it to "Cool Longcoat," which doesn't really fix any problems with the original name. Also, for reference, here's a TRS thread that ended up merging Badass Longcoat with another trope: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1328051396058009000&page=1.
The Unknown Unknown
Oh yeah, I launched that. But that was before I was made aware Cool Tropes were being misused too.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Showy Longcoat? Its basically presenting a show in of itself with how its flowing when they walk and lighting and so on. they always end up flowing like this
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edited 20th Jan '17 11:25:18 PM by Memers
read the trope description. The point is that its a flowing garment similar to a cape (evoking authority, majesty, power, mystery etc), but more practical in either appearance or function (can worn in wider contexts where capes dont make sense, can be used to conceal things)
If anything the proper rename should focus on any of those aspects rather than 'badass' or 'cool' or any other potentially meaningless word.
Something like Powerful Long Coat or Long Coat Shroud or Cape Like Longcoat get more to the point.
You guys need to dispose of the sandbox as well. We can't have a sandbox linked from a main article.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Hiding things typically do the whole long coat store reveal or flash people, those would be something different. Practical ones such as doctor's lab coats like Doctor Crusher in Star Trek TNG or shabby plain characters like Columbo do not really count and potentially be a different trope as well.
There is that and people purposely do it to just look cool or edgy such as those suffering from Chuunibyou. Edgy Long Coat then?
edited 23rd Jan '17 6:31:09 AM by Memers
Has anyone actually done a wick check to analyze the usage of Badass Longcoat around the wiki in detail? We didn't commit to a blanket ban on the word "badass", only when there is a proven problem with the trope. Let's not rename something just for the sake of renaming.
I think the discussion around Badass Princess a few pages back bore a lot more fruit, given its sketchy overlap with Royals Who Actually Do Something and Warrior Prince. And we still need to decide what to do with Badass Gay as well.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
We'll have to go back quite a few pages to see all the suggestions — or does Badass Gay have its own thread? I can't remember.
Maybe we should just go through all the items on the Badass Trope List on at a time? That may be a bit of a process, but this already has been a process, so we might as well be consistent.
Speaking of, what are we meant to do with the Trope List? Should it be turned into an actual index now?
Well, yes. What do we do with the sandbox?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
i'm for going back to Badass Princess and Badass Gay as the thread started with if we don't feel those are fully resolved.
The original problem we were trying to clean up was "Badass" ('has at least one moment of awesome' or 'isn't The Load') + identifies as some group, or has some personal attribute. Even if the moment of awesome and the attribute really have nothing to do with each other.
Shall we quickly move the Sandbox.Badass Trope List first?
This would be to move the content at the sandbox to Main.Badass Trope List, and replace the second sentence there with something along the lines of "If you're thinking of adding Badass to a work or example page, please find the appropriate trope below."
edited 24th Jan '17 5:28:45 AM by lakingsif
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
That sounds about right. It will have to go through the Launch Pad first, but that shouldn't be the problem.
No need for that. If we have consensus, we can just ask a moderator for the edit.
That said, sure, let's move it to Main/.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
As long as List of Badass Tropes and badass are separate pages, I'm ok with it.
edited 25th Jan '17 11:18:13 AM by ChaoticNovelist
Do we actually need one? I mean all the 'badass' subtropes need reworking to be something more objective and meaning to them which would probably remove them from any index like that.
Most of the ones that don't need too much redefining are Unlikely Fighter tropes like Badass Adorable.
edited 25th Jan '17 12:42:42 PM by Memers
Well, as we've established, working on all the tropes could take a very long time. To have an index in place to prevent the wicks for Badass building back up again is probably a good idea.
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
No, An index shouldn't be linked outside of a few specific instances. A page like that serves no purpose outside of just indexing tropes to be cut or worked on, the sandbox works well enough for that.
Badass should probably be red linked if wick build up is a problem.
edited 25th Jan '17 12:59:31 PM by Memers
It was already decided that since Badass is a term, it shouldn't be red-linked, just that there needs to be a way to stop people from using it in a trope list.
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
We could mark it as YMMV which would put the icon up if some uses it outside of YMMV pages. But really Faux redlinking like a lot of other troper ticks like No. Just... No would be the best.
It's funny, actually, since Badass and its recommended usage is basically the opposite of No. Just... No — as a fanspeak term it's better potholed, and not to be used as a trope.
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
(double post since the edit button doesn't seem to be working)
The suggestion to work on an Unlikely Fighter set of tropes first seems good, but it still might get confusing if we're going through them alphabetically.
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
As per post 1719 on page 69 on this discussion, Badass Longcoat is next under discussion to my knowledge.
I'm haven't looked into the trope much, but there's a valid type of Garnishing the Story in there for sure.