Shouldn't these two be one page?: Even The Guys Want Him

They seem very similar, the only thing they are gender-bent versions of each other. However they seem a bit too similar to have their own pages.. Why not mix them into one page like Childhood Friend Romance?

edited 27th Aug '11 3:09:07 PM by Pichukun

Maybe Everyone Is Gay For This Character/[[insert character here]]?

I mean I personally don't like "All" or "Everyone" tropes but it is a meme so...

I think it's split based on different standards of attractiveness, and different connotations (i.e. Girl on Girl Is Hot is "in," while Guy on Guy Is Hot is still rather taboo, at least in the US).

Now, whether or not that's a good argument to not merge them is another thing entirely...

From personal experience, Girl on Girl Is Hot is shared by many men but they for some reason can't understand Guy on Guy Is Hot for women. On the other hand, I know a lot of women who think Guy on Guy Is Hot and either can't understand Girl on Girl Is Hot for men or say All Men Are Perverts and therefore, enjoyment of that is wrong, while Guy on Guy Is Hot is not because All Women Are Prudes and therefore, their enjoyment of sexual activity is somehow less worse than men's and/or they can't actually being enjoying Yaoi...despite them earlier saying it's hot...somehow.

Fortunately, I also know lots of sane and rational men and women. :P

No I think these should stay separate so many different connotations, standards and stereotypes with each. Especially with the All Women Are Bi and All Men Are Homophobic stereotypes. As well as related tropes are different.

Both pages have great names that we would just be ruining.

edited 27th Aug '11 5:11:48 PM by Raso

All Women Are Bi? All Men Are Homophobic?

To me, I'm guessing the stereotypes up there exist for two reasons:

1- Since All Men Are Perverts, obviously every man wants to see two women make out and invite him for sex. No man ever thought about being bisexual or homosexual...or gasp, not liking lesbian sex.

2- Since All Women Are Prudes, female sexuality isn't as bad as male sexuality can be. They aren't even enjoying sex anyways, right? The only reason women would have sex with other women is to atract men and therefore get laid by a man, since sex only counts if it is male and female.

Even with the Sarcasm Mode, I hated typing that. We've made progress as a society, but we have a long way to go, and not just about the above.

edited 27th Aug '11 5:13:22 PM by darkclaw

Agreed. They're similar tropes in the sense that they cover similar regions but not the same area. They're sister tropes, similar but different.

Your post doesn't say what other trope you mean, but I assume you mean Even the Guys Want Him and Even the Girls Want Her.

For why they are seperate, it's quite simply size - both are large enough that it's just easier to navigate if the two different genders are on two different pages. Any case where there are that enough examples of each gender showing the behavior (such as Mama Bear and Papa Wolf), they get split to male everything as easy to read as possible.

For the record, these two were one page back in the day. The above reasoning came from that split.

• Even the Guys Want Him: generally these are kept strictly in the Dude Looks Like a Lady or Bishōnen types at bare minimum the Cool Pretty Boy types. The gruff manly Aragorn types however no.

• Even the Girls Want Her: can happen like that too with Bifauxnen which is lady who dresses like a dude but is still treated as Bishōnen (Do they care that their prince is a girl? No) however a flat out really beautiful girly girl gets the treatment too.

Girls have a wider target range than the guys without it getting too gay basically. Double Standard? Yeah mostly because of the stuff in my last post.

that and it's more accepted that girls can look at other girls and gawk at them or appreciative of other girls beauty vs males doing the same (if a male does it it's treated as gay.)

edited 28th Aug '11 1:25:56 AM by Raso

@ Raso

As for Even the Guys Want Him, I'm guessing the reason why guys can say it about Bishōnen/Dude Looks Like a Lady, is that they have the "embarassing" excuse "I thought he was a she!"...but to them, it's still an "excuse". However, I think you also forgot about GAR characters like Big Boss from Metal Gear Solid, where it goes in the opposite direction and implies a character is so masculine that his male fanbase does not just "enjoy" his badassery so to speak. Everyone Is Gay For Big Boss is still being used as a meme for example.

Maybe we should mention these DoubleStandards on an analysis page?

edited 28th Aug '11 7:22:24 AM by darkclaw

Memes are not exactly in a work itself which is where the double standard is. GAR actually comes from a 4Chan misspelling of "Gay for archer" as "Gar for archer" (who is a Bishōnen) because he was badass and pretty.

In universe MGS had to get one guy (Ocelot) under the radar by playing it down a lot and making two really gay guys (Yaoi Guys). Peace Walker it got treated as Knights Who Say Squee.

(there is also Moe GAR which is Moe gone badass or a form of Plucky Girl)

edited 28th Aug '11 9:29:23 AM by Raso

Yeah, I guess there is a huge differnce between in-universe and fanbase stuff.

Did not know that about Archer. Cool.

Moe GAR huh? Didn't know about that either.

edited 28th Aug '11 9:14:48 AM by darkclaw

There has been a request to lock this thread. Complying.