Rename, redefine? Why only women?: Kick Chick

This comes up in response to a recent YKTTW: The Kickmeister. Basically, it's the spear counterpart to Kick Chick.

However, as examples started coming in, it has started to seem as though the only differentiating factor is the gender of the character, which means they're not really different tropes.

I expect this happened just because female kick-specialists are just more common than their male counterpart.

So anyway, go forward with the male-centric kicking trope anyway? Or repair Kick Chick to include men as well?

There are a hell of alot of differences between how the two are handled... I say keep split.

The female variation is treated much differently in media. For instance it's sexualized in a way the men's version isn't. I don't think a man with this fighting style is treated as a walking excuse for a Panty Shot.

Fixed title link. Remember to CamelCase it next time.

Also, there are, like, two sentences in the description about fanservice. And one of them says "preferably." Tropes Are Flexible. We can combine the genders and leave two sentences about how women who only kick are used for fanservice.

edited 16th Jun '11 7:01:00 PM by SalFishFin

But that doesn't change the fact that the trope descriptions and the character types have nothing in common save for kicking. They use the styles for different reasons. They have different media portrayals. Different styles. Different reasons for those styles. Different builds. They aren't even vaguely the same trope.

I see little difference between "Kicks the shit out of people" and "Kicks the shit out of people, with the occasional Panty Shot / Show Some Leg." At least, not enough difference to warrant separate tropes. The descriptions in the Trope and YKTTW are more or less the same, with Kick Chick going more into why someone would prefer kicks to punches; that part could apply to men as well as women.

Well Kick Chick is used more for fanservice or for the entirely fanservicey Panty Fighter. Females physically have stronger legs making it a Justified Trope. As well as it being related to Waif-Fu.

And looking at the list for the other trope males specializing only in kicks are rare.

edited 16th Jun '11 8:10:17 PM by Raso

Just because a trope is no longer as popular or widely used as it used to be, it doesn't mean that we should simply make it into something else.

Part of documenting tropes is documenting their fall from favor. That's why we have Dead Horse Tropes and Discredited Tropes.

At one time, fighters who specialized in kicking techniques were almost all women — it was a clear subtrope of the Action Girl. The distinction is no longer so clear. But that doesn't mean that the Kick Chick should be turned into "any fighter who primarily uses kicks." Maybe it's simply becoming a Discredited Trope. If that's the case them we need say that, and start looking for what, if anything is in the process of replacing it.

Just have a separate trope for guys and say that they are starting to become more popular. (even though from the examples list there are only like 10 male ones in media.)

Kick Chick has a whole lot of baggage about being less violent and rough than "normal" fighting and basically being a Third Option between Faux Action Girl and showing women punching and getting punched by men.

edited 16th Jun '11 9:11:24 PM by StarryEyed

I'm okay with keeping Kick Chick and Kickmeister separate. I honestly think they're different, namely the use of Eating the Eye Candy is much more extensive with Kick Chick and they tend to have a penchant for having bare legs. Male leg Extremity Extremist tend to wear standard clothes IIRC.

Keep split. Two different things narrative-wise.

Well, if such is the case, can we make the description for Kick Chick actually reflect that? because I saw nothing in the description that did.

All of that is in the description all ready. It all ready reflects this. I'm not sure how to make this clearer without making the trope description confusing. You seem to be dismissing anything that only has a sentence in there, but that's all it needs. We don't need a paragraph on a topic for it to count.

It appears that I'm just not going to win this fight, so do whatever.

You should try not to see this as a "fight"

Debate, then.

Protip: You don't always win debates

I gotta agree with Sal, I don't see much of the implications being discussed explicit in the description (or, if they're present, it's not as a hard and fast requirement of the trope). Otherwise I wouldn't

That said, I'm fine with keeping split, I just think the description could use a little work before the counterpart launches.

Back to work on the YKTTW!

Are there any female kick-specialists that don't fall under Kick Chick?

How would they not? The only thing I can think of that might qualify is if a character starts out as a Kick Chick and then reveals I Am Not Left-Handed and starts using her arms or something.

^Well, that's my whole point.

There are two possible scenarios.

• Any woman who is a kick specialist goes under Kick Chick. This would imply that the only difference between Kick Chick and our hypothetical Spear Counterpart is that the male kick-specialist is male. Which would imply that they're actually the same trope, dressed up differently.
• There are specific conditions for a female kick-specialist to be considered a Kick Chick - the general consensus seems to be that her kicking somehow sexualizes her image - and females that don't meet that criteria despite specializing in kicks would not count.

At least that's how I see it.

The latter seems right. An elderly woman doing Tae Kwon Do I imagine is not this trope.

However, due to some reasons (mainly Rule of Sexy), the overwhelming majority of female kick-specialist are Kick Chicks. Suppose we create a trope to encompass both male and female kick-specialists; Kick Chick would be a subtrope.

edited 21st Jun '11 7:57:03 PM by Catalogue

Every once in a while even with tropes that have Spear/Distaff counterparts there's a gender-flipped example. I see no reason why Kickmeister and Kick Chick can't coexist, and if there's a male who happens to be almost-always bare-legged when kicking and it gets played as fanservice, then he can be a gender-flipped Kick Chick.

Yeah, I have to admit, an old wrinkly woman is not a Kick Chick. I just can't think of any female examples that aren't. That doesn't mean there won't be any in the future. Just that it's not the norm.