Professional Wrestling

The only half-decent match Eva Marie ever had was a title match with Bayley on NXT tv, and that's more by virtue of Bayley carrying her and a good story going in than any ability of hers. That story being a meta-narrative that she sucked, everyone knew she sucked, and the company was pushing and protecting her because she had the look and persona that they wanted out of their champion - basically, they did the Daniel Bryan story in reverse.

It worked because they saw the reaction she was getting and decided to run with it and build their narrative around it. Also, that was her last NXT match - afterwards, they attached her to up-and-coming heel Nia Jax for instant heel heat on the latter.

@IAD:

Huh. Having only gotten in with the group in the last few years, I didn't know he had a history with them. Looking at 2006 and 2007, he had two losses, one each year, one as a singles wrestler (albeit via DQ) and one as part of The Unholy Alliance although the match summary doesn't mention him.

And Jake Roberts will not be attending. His mother is apparently near her end. Replacing him is Scotty 2 Hotty.

edited 8th Apr '16 5:27:17 PM by FuzzyBoots

Well Fuzzy, you should know Dalton Castle has been making fans watching Ring Of Honor very proud, though I doubt that surprises you.

And well, the month is not over yet, and I haven't finished all the shows yet, but for now I'll say this. I was annoyed at whichever commentator who said no one expected to see Shinsuke Nakamura in the United States. He made his USA debut 10 years ago, albeit under a different gimmick, but he only used that gimmick in the states for a year.

They got the IWGP Title History correct otherwise, though. I applaud the commentators for taking the high road and not slipping in potshots about Kurt Angle or Antonio Inoki. When they said Shinsuke resurrected "strong style" I would have said "he saved it from Inokism". While laconic, they also did a better job explaining what strong style was than Josh Matthews did, for whatever that's worth.

I said I had no issue regarding Ibushi, I said I was a little annoyed Nakamura's departure left the IWGP Intercontinental Title vacant, but the fans at least appreciate Nakamura where he is, so I guess it's a good first step otherwise.

And speaking of things besides match details, has anyone seen the Cheeseburger T Shirt? KUSHIDA says it's popular in Japan.

edited 9th Apr '16 5:16:06 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Dalton Castle's sold me completely on ROH. Being in the Philippines, I really can't watch ROH TV, so ippvs it is. Can you guys recommend a good starting point, so I can catch up with the current goings on (All I know is Dalton Castle is must-watch, and Jay Lethal is apparently killing it as an champions)? The only Generico-Steen loveliness on the sales list is the one with their Ladder Match in 2012, so I'll just stick to current ROH.

Watching the Jericho-Michaels program from 2008. It's a bit surprising that Cole and Lawler weren't the worst here. They weren't lost in stupid pop-culture references or horrid banter, they were fully focused on commentating/selling the match.

This era in general seemed to be a good time to follow WWE. Jericho-Micahels, from what I've seen, is bitter and intense, and this is also the year with that Michaels-Undertaker match, Undertaker-Edge and Punk-Hardy.

On top of the 'E, I'm gonna go ahead and watch those Misawa matches i've been holding back on (thanks to y'all for pointing the way for me). I wanna start with his match with Hansen for the Triple Crown, because I think Stan Hansen might be my new favorite thing ever. He just looks the part of a massive asshole, and apparently the dude was a legitimately good worker, so that's great.

edited 9th Apr '16 7:25:29 PM by mrsunshinesprinkles

I'd say Supercard Of Honor X, but for Castle, Final Battle 2015 or The 14th Anniversary Show might be good places too.

Final Battle 2015 seems like a good place to start. Alright, hopefully the net price isn't completely awful.

Well, it seems the stable wars in New Japan are as hot as always. CHAOS, Bullet Club and Los Ignorables De Japon all scoring big, though CHAOS also took a major loss, Bullet Club too, to a lesser extent...though I haven't seen the shows in question, due to me going through the Dallas events still.

Then I got curious about the main Ignorables branch in CMLL, whom I'm also going to have to wait to catch up on, assuming they are still going. Don't mind it though, cause I got a feeling it's going to be worth the wait. I find it deliciously ironic that Tama Tonga, who lead Bullet Club Latino, is now partnering with a fellow Polynesian who was a fake Latino in WWE. Hell, I think that's a good enough reason for CMLL to do another Bullet Club Latino run.

Also, last weekend my internet cutout in the middle of Supercard Of Honor night 2 and I watched something else when it came back on. Just got back around to finishing it... I'm vaguely familiar with Anarchy in Texas where I recognized one guy from, I know Nina Monet and Devyn Nicole from LLF, but the fact they were all part of this gigantic group called the Get Along Gang flew completely below my radar. Since I'll never catch up with everything in pro wrestling, I like when I get windows to things outside my bubble. The reaction they got was classic, like The Gobbledy Gooker, but on purpose.

edited 10th Apr '16 8:04:28 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

what are your thoughts on Lucha Underground?

@IAT:

:) I was actually thinking about Dalton Castle when I was up there because the last NOTS I went to, two years ago, I bought a T-shirt off of him and he signed it for my wife. Glad to know things are working out for him. I wrote up some brief results, but they got the official ones before I finished them up.

1. . Scott Hall kicked off the event by stating that "These cats here in IWC are the future!"
2. . Andrew Palace def. Robbie E to retain the IWC Super Indy Championship.
3. . Keith Haught & Remy LaVey were joined by Booker T and def. The Fraternity to become NEW IWC Tag Team Champions!
4. . Deonna Purrazzo def. Britt Baker & Marti Belle in a 3-way dance. After the match, Britt challenged Deonna to a 1-on-1 match on May 7th at Reloaded!
5. . Shelton Benjamin narrowly def. Darin Dinero.
6. . Abyss def. Jon Bolen in a Monster's Ball Match!
7. . Dylan Bostic, RJ City, & Wardlow def. Scotty 2 Hotty, Grand Master Rockay Reynolds, & Bulk-Kishi when Bostic pinned Reynolds. After the match, RJ City was on the receiving end of "The Worm" and Ray Lyn suffered a "stink face" from Bulk!
8. . Tatanka def. Chris LeRusso to end his undefeated streak in IWC!
9. . Big League John McChesney def. Jeff Jarrett in the main event!

My least favorite match was the girl's one. It was all titillation and very little actual solid fighting. Kind of a shame, really. Second least favorite would be the Dinero / Shelton Benjamin one. It involved a lot of Dinero running away, which doesn't match his character at all, and when they did wrestle, it was slow going. I know Dinero can do more exciting matches, so I wonder if Shelton Benjamin enforced things being so slow and boring. Scott Hall did nothing except deliver a speech (in which he called it the "ICW"). Booker T prevented some interference and did a bit of a spinnerooni at the end, but cut an impressive promo, and everything I heard from the wrestlers was that he's a hell of a guy. Robbie E was good in his role, a lot of dancing and a weird bit where he continued acting like he was being slammed into a ring post after Palace stepped away. Tatanka has definitely slowed a bit, but he was still solid in his moves, and he was by far and away the most popular person at the intermission signing. Abyss was alright, big lumbering guy. He kept the audience's attention. I felt a bit sorry for Bolen, though, with it taking five attempts to put him through the table... Jeff Jarret did a serviceable job although he relied on the cheapest of heat in how he insulted the town and the local sports teams in the most generic ways possible. Scotty 2 Hotty was good, very entertaining and you could tell he was enjoying himself.

Overall, it was a good night of matches.

IDT: Sort of cool how NJPW keeps the faction wars fresh. IIRC, they have been going on for fucking ever.

Watched Misawa/Hansen made me realize how impatient I really am. This and Misawa/Kobashi were sort of slow-burn affairs that began with eternal chinlocks and armholds before things get really crazy. I did enjoy the payoff for both matches a lot (Misawa doing the Tiger Driver after Kobashi worked his arm for half the match was hype as hell), pacing is especially important for those long matches, but I was sort of dozing off for those first few minutes.

Well, Kyle, I mentioned earlier that I'm happy Lucha Underground has delivered on everything Konnan says it would after so many other 2010s promotions fell short of the hype. Lucha was successfully presented to an English audience. Even if it's not exactly what I've found in the Mexican promotions I know, it's still an unarguable Mexican flavor, penetrated deeper than Lucha Libre USA before it and certainly done better than Quinones's attempt to bring Lucha Libre to USA. It's lasted longer than Wrestling Society X and in the process given at least one wrestler from that show some much needed redemption, hopefully not too late to capitalize on more bookings in the country during the "off season".

Beyond that? Well, I'm happy the "tough enough" trio eventually got shown the respect that show did not give them. But I'll admit, Lucha Underground is one of those things mostly outside my current bubble. Not quite as far as Anarchy seemingly is, I know there was uproar about a new Jeffe, arm breaking, big show not too long ago, but I gravitate toward CMLL and Lucha Underground's foundations are in AAA. That's not a knock on it, but I was thinking over whether I should jump on the Lucha Underground bandwagon or just let other fans support it while watching what I already was. Since WWL's no longer running I decided there is Lucha Underground stuff I intend to see.

They posted the Haught and LaVey match.

That's where he's been. I saw LeVay in NXT: Fatal Four-Way getting humiliated by Enzo and Cass. Glad to see he is doing just fine.

It's been weird watching the older Takeovers. Most of the faces I know are currently main roster jokes, and there is also no short supply of performers who've just went and left NXT.

I checked with him, and he hasn't been on any WWE shows although he'd love to be in that position eventually.

Full official match results from NOTS 5

I made a flub. Video didn't load, saw the name, mixed them up in my head and I...feel like a massive idiot now

The line "I'm not a good guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm THE guy," is good if it's just said once.

It absolutely does not work as a Catchphrase, which is what WWE is trying to get it over as by having Roman say it every week.

It also looks like they aren't turning him heel after all. That'll teach me to be even a tiny bit optimistic.

When I saw a checkmark next to live performance I was sure it was because Balls Mahoney had died. I guess it's nice to know there are other things besides unexpected relatively early deaths that can get fans talking, even if it happens to be poor booking in this case.

I don't know what to expect in the after math of this, the cause of death is not even known at this point, but I will say I was right about the fallout regarding Hayabusa, and shamefully didn't post any information on it. I did mention on FMW's trivia tab that their tribute to him happened on the third day of the Snow Thawing Carnival, if anyone is still interested in seeing it.

But hey, it looks like Luke Hawx was unsuccessful in his attempt to retire Booker T. It's nice to see International Wrestling Cartel is still pulling in nice crowds by US indy standards. edit:I've been spoiled by ROH selling out its Texas venues in general, but still now that I think of it, not all the Dallas shows on the WWN seemed to have particularly large attendance, even though most were reported to reach or surpass the 1K mark. I guess that's the downside to a black interior, or maybe something about Eddie Deen's ranch just didn't make shooting people easy.

edited 15th Apr '16 10:05:04 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

But Texas works so hard to make shooting people easy...

Anyway - sucks to hear about that guy.

I tried watching an ROH episode a while back. Might have just been that one, but I wasn't really able to connect with any of the stories or characters - because I couldn't figure out any of the stories or characters (except for Dalton Castle's feud with Team Toxic Masculinity over a pair of twinks). Fun matches, but I couldn't get invested. Should I start with a PPV?

I thought you'd be starting with Supercard Of Honor X? I recommended it earlier(although maybe not enough by name, was that my failing?).

Well, I heard Taya Valkyrie was in Lucha Underground, which inspired me to post this.

Trying to think of a good way to phrase this... but has anyone else met with wrestlers, and shook their hands and found limp handshakes all around? I suspect that a lot of it is the wrestlers overcompensating for their strength.

@IAD: It wasn't that I didn't care about Balls or anything, but I just hadn't thought of anything to say. Although since we're on the topic, I'll quote part of what I've read:

@Fuzzyboots: About limp handshakes: you already know how (in WWE anyway) wrestlers are supposed to shake everybody's hand when they arrive. Shawn Michaels gave an interview years ago wherein he talked about that and he touched on the limp handshake thing you described. Here's the video, and the relevant part begins at approximately 6:30.

Saw a confession about the WWE's women wrestlers that I thought would be relevant here:

A reply to that confession:

Any thoughts?

I'm just glad they got rid of that god awful Tramp Stamp Belt.

Remember when Chuck Taylor went on a mission to win every championship belt in IWA Mid-South, which culminated in him defeating the women's title holder(Mickie Knuckles, I believe)? While she did end up defeating him in a rematch, making the divisions separate again, I guess you could make the argument that the women's title is just as important as every other in IWA M-S. The tongue in cheek nature of the angle aside, that was still the daughter who bled for the promotion defeating a world champion caliber wrestler. So maybe the "merging itself" wasn't the best, but it had a good payoff.

Obviously the all female Chikara spin off was a failure, but in its wake they did successfully integrate women into the "male" competitive divisions. A female torneo cibernetico winner, a female young lion(ess?), a female grand champion. The parejas are all that's left!

Now I get it, Chikara's style doesn't click with everyone, so can it work for a more "serious" promotion? Well Anarchy Championship Wrestling in Texas hasn't yet crowned a female heavyweight champion to my knowledge, but they have had some women get fairly close, and the start of their "American Joshi" division was to prove a women's division could be seen as equals to a male heavyweight division. The results have been critically praised, for the most part.

The only "serious" promotion to merge a male and female division that I can think of though is Ring Wars Carolina, when Mia Svensen put an end to...whatever they called their women's title belt and the television title, creating the "No Limitz" belt in their place, which anyone could challenge for. WWE viewers likely have passing familiarity with this because the first wrestler to beat Mia wasn't a man, but one Mercedes KV, the one who was repackaged as Sasha Banks.

Wait, you mean divas not being called divas anymore is considered a merging of competitive divisions now? So they're superstars now? That's definitely more empowering, but it's no less pretentious.

Look, when Paul London and Spanky were running around on the B Show, they were "superstars". When Spanky left WWE he got a lot more exposure than London, who was still a "superstar" running around on the B show. Now eventually London would be moved up to the Smackdown roster, likely due to the fact his partner had gone indie and yet became (or rather, returned to being) a bigger name in pro wrestling than him. That move to Smackdown worked too, I guess, cause Spanky returned and went on to have a pretty successful run with the tag team titles after reuniting with London, but the point being, merely being a WWE wrestler doesn't necessarily mean one is a superstar in anything but name. Sylvester Terkay was a "superstar" too, but nobody knows who he is, at least in the context of WWE. He won about five televised squash matches, lost to the Hardy Boys, was featured on perhaps the least successful pay per view in company history and was never seen again. Superstar in no sense that matters.

Now, if you ask about Terkay in the context of Zero 1 or IGF, maybe you have a case for super stardom(they actually used him, for one). Maybe you could make a case for Colt Cabana, if he manages to beat Jay Lethal or something like that in the near future but Scotty Goldman? Hey, Amy Webber was a diva right? You remember her empowering role in the company right? Joy Giovanni? No? You probably remember Dawn Marie. How she staged a marriage to an old man as part of a plot to molest his daughter. How she pursued other women's husbands so she could rub their unfaithfulness in their faces. I guess you could say she was empowered to be a soulless succubus, because she certainly wasn't as a wrestler, not when she lost 500 matches to the less talented Torrie Wilson.

As far as I remember, the only one who made "diva" sound credible was Melina Perez, because she was a prissy, high maintenance woman who knew what she wanted, didn't care who she stepped on while she got it, was irrationally temperamental, was uncompromising even when discussing trivial disputes, possessed unfounded vanity but did have enough talent to let one understand how it could go to her head. A diva in every sense of the word(besides the fact she wasn't a singer). If the women on the roster consist entirely of Melina types, maybe diva was a better term for them. Given this discussion is even happening tough, I'm guessing it's not either way. I hear the new belt looks better, but that could have been done regardless of what word is used in place of wrestler.

The Queen Of Spades, one of the "Four Horsewomen", Shayna Baszler, she who boasted to have given the world of mixed martial arts the education on catch wrestling it needed, is preparing for SHIMMER Volume 81, where she plans to remind the best pro wrestlers in the world what catch, breaking bodies wherever they may be, looks like. I don't really know what to expect from that angle, but I'm having a lot more fun guessing about the possibilities.

Remember the SMASH Divas? That term didn't really apply to them either, with the possible exception of "World Famous Kana'', but to the point, her Arch-Nemesis was the kick boxing champion and shoot boxing karateka Syuri, who was awesome and still is. Never wrestled in USA, far as I know, but Syuri has had multiple matches with Serena Deeb, Cat Power and Mia Yim, who of course went through SHIMMER prior. Yeah, Deeb was a WWE diva too, was on television with them for a while, yet she had all of one tag match to show for it. Work in places like SHIMMER is what led to the foreign feds flying Deeb and the others over. Now Baszler's knocking on that same door.

By fan demand SHIMMER flew in that "diva" Kana too, so even before we get to what doors might be opened there is still so much potential. Dynamite Kansai was there not too long ago, and she's getting up in age but I still think she would match up fairly well with Baszler. Sonoko Kato, Kyoko Kimura, Hiroyo Matsumoto, all at SHIMMER not long ago. Maybe they can't get anyone from Japan, maybe it's a little early to put her with Madison Eagles but country woman Kellyanne could step in. Portia Perez would have been perfect but they can still bring down Spinelli. Maybe passports still aren't in the budget, Thunderkitty should be an interesting match up, a good first program even. Allysin Kay does MMA(and technically, so do Mia Yim and Cheerleader Melissa. Sassy Stephie's been gone for awhile but shouldn't be too hard to get) and so might be able to ease her into pro wrestling.

edited 17th Apr '16 3:11:31 PM by IndirectActiveTransport