Sandbox / Kneel Before Frodo Wick Check

OP written by: mathfreak231

Category: Unclear Definition

Intro

Kneel Before Frodo is about a commoner being bowed to. However, it combines too many concepts that its definitions don't agree on what the necessary elements of the trope are:

• The Laconic definition says that the target must be "lower on the social scale", but the Main and Playing With pages mention that it also counts if the target is just presenting as a commoner, i.e. King Incognito or Really Royalty Reveal.
• The Main definition says that the trope is about everyone in a scene kneeling, but the Laconic and Playing With definitions don't. Though, Playing With also says that a single superior bowing to an inferior is downplaying the trope.
• Though not a requirement, the Main definition emphasizes that the king or queen usually bows first to prompt everyone else to do so. The Laconic definition formerly indicated this as the main definition, but it was changed in December 2023. This was apparently an artifact of the YKTTW draft.

Without looking at any wicks, I think "mass of people bowing to a commoner" feels like the most tropeworthy definition. See also the old TRS Thread which deadlocked and yielded no action, but did mention Trope-Namer Syndrome as one potential cause of the trope's misuse.

Questions

How is the trope being used around the wiki? Are there any concepts that can be split out to the yard? 50 wicks on work pages were checked.

Findings

The trope has a mix of "group bowing" and "only 1 person bowing" examples. I divided them by those categories and then further divided them into whether the bowing is unexpected based on social scale. "Bob" is used for the person being bowed to.

• 19/50 involved a group bowing to Bob.
  • 1/50 correctly identified Bob as a commoner or lower on the social scale than those bowing.
  • 5/50 identified Bob as royal, divine, or otherwise completely normal to bow to.
  • 13/50 didn't specify Bob's social status. I can't tell if these are correct usage from the example alone. Without knowing Bob's social status the trope seems like it's just about people bowing.
• 13/50 involved just one person (who we'll call Alice) bowing to Bob.
  • 3/50 identified Bob as inferior to Alice.
  • 2/50 identified Bob as superior to Alice.
  • 8/50 didn't specify their relationship.
• 14/50 didn't even mention a bow or similar gesture. These ranged from Zero Context Examples to someone becoming a leader/royalty to completely different and potentially tropable happenings.
• 1/50 was actually Kneel Before Zod
• 3/50 were potholes that didn't mention how they fit

Notably, no examples involved King Incognito or Really Royalty Reveal.

Group bows to Bob, Bob is a commoner, or a lower rank than the people bowing

1. Characters.Like A Dragon: After defeating Kamon Kanai for the final time, the the two of them find themselves surrounded by an army of Yakuza headed by some of the biggest yakuza names across the country. While Captain Watase of the most powerful yakuza clan, the Omi Alliance tells Kanai that his actions have made him an enemy of all yakuza in the country, he compliments the noble efforts of Akiyama and his allies and kneels before him with the other yakuza patriarchs and soldiers following suit. Akiyama keeps his cool through it all and simply hopes to himself that Kiryu can wrap things up back at Tojo HQ.

Group bows to Bob, Bob is high on social scale

1. ComicBook.WITCH: It is almost a running gag: At the end of most sagas, the Oracle orders the assembly to kneel before the guardians. They should not, given that it is the guardians' duty to protect Kandrakar, but the Oracle usually underlines that they went above and beyond the call of duty.
2. Literature.Magehunter: At the conclusion of the adventure, Reinhardt of Margrave has returned to his throne, just in time to stop a war from breaking out. Cue soldiers, viziers, and the chamberlain kneeling before him and recognizing his position as successor to the throne.
3. Characters.Equestria Across The Multiverse: A number of Alliance leaders bow before her when she arrives because she's essentially their mythologies' version of King Arthur and a borderline Messianic figure.
4. Literature.Magehunter: At the conclusion of the adventure, Reinhardt of Margrave has returned to his throne, just in time to stop a war from breaking out. Cue soldiers, viziers, and the chamberlain kneeling before him and recognizing his position as successor to the throne.
5. Fanfic.White Devil Of The Moon: The four Senshi kneel before Nanoha, prompting Hayate to take a picture before reminding them that when their monarch is in uniform, they must bow rather than kneel.

Group bows to Bob, relationship not mentioned

1. Manga.Fushigi Yuugi Genbu Kaiden: After she makes her wishes and dies, all of Hokkan bow before Takiko finally fully acknowledging their priestess
2. Literature.Book Of Genesis: Joseph's brothers bow down before him four times. The first three times, they do not realize that he's Joseph. The fourth and final time, they bow before him fully aware of his identity and in reverence. Technically, only the fourth exemplifies the trope.
3. WesternAnimation.Cinderella Golden Films: The stepmother and the stepsisters kneel before Cinderella when it was revealed she was the mysterious lady. i do know the story and if this had enough context it would be correct usage
4. Recap.Star Trek Lower Decks S 4 E 09 The Inner Fight: The Orions are about to kill Mariner when Tendi jumps in and stops them, and they immediately genuflect before the Mistress of the Winter Constellations. not explicit, but based on the cool title i would guess this is misuse
5. Characters.Edens Zero Universe Zero: The entire cosmos kneels to the Edens Zero crew in gratitude after they help Shura defeat Müller.
6. Characters.Snow White And The Huntsman: The people at the Duke's castle kneel in awe before Snow White.
7. Fanfic.The Fire Chapters: Early in the chapters the Dai Li and Zuko bow to the Earth King swearing him loyalty. Later Huo, Jee and their fleet bow to a bewildered Zuko.
8. Characters.Im Great Priest Imhotep: Generally everyone in the Amen Priesthood will immediately prostrate themselves once they realize they're in their presence.
9. Fanfic.The Weaver Option:
   • After Taylor kicked the shit out of Ka'Bandha — sworn enemy to their Primarch — and became their living shield against the Black Rage, all of the Blood Angels Chapters present expressed their gratitude by kneeling to her.
   • During the Raid on Commorragh, the Chapter Master of the Salamanders and Archmagos Belisarius Cawl bow as well, with the Regent even bending the knee. When Taylor tries to tell him he does not have to, the Regent claims that he does.
10. Fanfic.Digimon Codex: After Baoyendramon Digivolves to Azulongmon, Angewoman bows to him while declaring him the new leader of the resistance, with all the other surviving members, including the humans and their partners, bowing to him in respect as well. Even MagnaAngemon bows his head a bit.
11. Recap.Odd Squad S 2 E 34 Who Is Agent Otis: When the Big O appears out of nowhere and declares that he will be the judge in Otis's trial, everyone, the X's included, does the traditional kneel, only getting back up when the Big O tells them to.
12. Characters.Case Closed People From Notable Cases: After the older people of the island say they knew that Kimie (and before her, her mother) was Mikoto, they humbly bow to Kimie.
13. Recap.Three Below S 2 E 3 Dogfight Days Of Summer: Subverted in that Aja, Krel, Steve, Eli, Toby, Varvatos, and Zadra are the ones bowing before the citizens of Akiridion-5 after defeating Morando. as it's described, this is Not a Subversion but an inversion. But that aside, this could be correct usage if those characters are normals

Alice bows to Bob, Alice is superior

1. Recap.Grandmaster Of Demonic Cultivation Season 2 Episode 8 The Truth: Lan Wangji, a cultivator of high rank, kneels to Wei Wuxian while reassuring him he understands that the latter didn't intend for the events in Nevernight (and everything before that) to happen. The reason why he kneels is to make it clear to Wei Wuxian that he's not opposing him or talking down on him — which Wei Wuxian mistook him to be doing before.
2. Literature.Look To The West: King Charles X of France does this at the end of the Popular Wars to his rebellious army as a dramatic gesture that subdues their rage—he also gives all the veterans the right to vote.
3. Film.The Spy Who Loved Me: The Teaser. At the end of the sequence, Bond skis off a cliff. He falls for several heart-stopping seconds, then a parachute opens in the colours of the Union Jack as the Bond theme kicks in. There are several reported cases of audiences breaking into applause at this moment (including one showing attended by Charles, Prince of Wales — who also stood up in applause himself). This stunt was done for real and you can see one of the skis hit stuntman Rick Sylvester's chute, which could have been pretty nasty.

Alice bows to Bob, Bob is superior

1. Characters.SMBM Dark Lands: One Bob-omb does this upon seeing King Bob-omb during Bowser's wedding to Peach.
2. Literature.Shatterpoint: When Mace rescues several prisoners, one of them kowtows to him, calling him "Your Highness" and begging for the lives of his children. Mace tells him to knock it off, as Jedi are servants to ordinary people, not the other way around.

Alice bows to Bob, relationship not mentioned

1. Recap.The 100 S 03 E 03: Lexa kneeling to Clarke and swearing that she will never betray her again.
2. Recap.Star Trek Discovery S 1 E 04 The Butchers Knife Cares Not For The Lambs Cry: When Kol beams onto the Sarcophagus, he kneels to Voq as a show of humility. Voq tells him that only their enemies should kneel before them.
3. Recap.The Magicians 2016 S 03 E 12 The Fillorian Candidate: When Margo is unexpectedly named High King, she apologizes to Eliot for accidentally stealing his thunder. Rather than be upset, he immediately kneels before her.
4. Characters.Ciaphas Cain: He's quick to kneel respectfully in the presence of Space Marines and listens to their orders and ideas rather than try to boss them around.
5. Recap.The Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes S 1 E 26 A Day Unlike Any Other: Humble Hero: Thor gives credit for the victory to the Avengers, much to Odin's surprise. Thor refers to the rest as "mortals", which could qualify, but they are also part of the same team so meh, still unclear
   Thor: These mortals just saved all the Nine Realms. They deserve our respect. [Kneels before the team] Avengers, I thank thee. Truly I am honored to count myself among you.
6. Characters.Naruto Other Leaf Village Members: Goes on his knees and begs for Neji's forgiveness when he tells him the truth over his father's death.
7. Recap.Yu Gi Oh Capsule Monsters E 1 Getting Played: After saving Yugi from a Kamakiriman, Celtic Guardian kneels before him and pledges his Undying Loyalty and service.
8. Characters.Underworld 2003: He's the first to bow to Selene, David, and Lena when they become the new Elders.

No mention of a bow or other gesture at all, or ZCE

1. Characters.Overgeared: He attends Grid's birthday party, looking to convince him to trade in some loot from a monster that wasn't supposed to be player beatable, which could seriously jeapordize game balance, but as he's attending the party, he has a change of heart, letting Grid keep his hard-earned loot and even giving him a hint regarding Pagma's Descendant class.
2. Recap.Tintin Tintin In Tibet: The monks left the convent to pay homage to Tintin. The monk with visions foresaw his return, having successfully liberated Chang from the yeti, despite all odds (and even their warnings).
3. Film.The Chronicles Of Riddick 2004: At the end, Riddick receives this treatment from the entire Necromonger army after killing the Lord Marshal. The reason: you keep what you kill.
4. Fanfic.The Ravens Plan: The Northern lords and the leaders of the Free Folk swearing fealty to Jon.
5. Literature.Kitty Norville: The pack gives Kitty the werewolf version of this when she becomes alpha.
6. WesternAnimation.How To Train Your Dragon 2: The dragons acknowledging Toothless as the new Alpha.
7. Characters.Fushigi Yuugi: Gets this from Konan, just as Miaka did.
8. Characters.Horus Heresy Loyalist Legions: How he won the heart of his Legion in his official debut.
9. Characters.A Song Of Ice And Fire House Arryn: He wasn't a lord or a king, but ended up ruling the Vale after several major Andal lords rallied behind him.
10. Characters.Excalibur: He is the first to declare for Arthur.
    "I saw what I saw! The boy drew the sword. If a boy has been chosen, a boy shall be King!"
11. Characters.A Song Of Ice And Fire House Royce: Many of the houses who he gathered under his banners had never sworn loyalty to House Royce before, but did so for him because of his strength and will to drive the Andals from the Vale.
12. Characters.Of Mice And Men: The narration gives him a theme of royalty, using similes to portray how the ranchers have more respect and admiration for him than Curley, the boss's son.
13. Characters.A Song Of Ice And Fire The Nights Watch: He gracefully accepts that he isn't the man to lead the Night Watch (reasoning that if he was, more people would have voted for him) and supports Jon as the right man for the job. After Jon takes over though, their relations get a little less tranquil.
14. Characters.Merlin Others: Or in this case, Merlin.

Confused with Kneel Before Zod

1. Recap.Smallville S 09 E 09 Pandora: The episode ends with Clark meeting with the Kandorians and Zod commanding his soldiers to "Kneel...before Kal-El."

Unclear pothole

1. Fanfic.Infinity Train Crown Of Hydrangea: Designated Villain: An In-Universe example. Since the Red Lotus Remnants had only Chloe's stories to go off of, they were already expecting Goh to be a Spoiled Brat who would take forever to learn his lessons. But as soon as they actually track him down, they're horrified at finding him as the ruler of a Car. Lexi assumes that he overthrew the previous ruler out of ambition, and angrily slots it into his reasons to consider Goh Beyond Redemption. The group is especially infuriated to discover that The Wild Hunt, which had tangled with Chloe early in her adventure, stands behind the young Prince. Chloe is left aghast that Goh would ever use his new powers against her friends... and overall, Amelia is already grimly considering that they may need to kill Goh if they can't talk him down from his atrocities. The truth is, however, that Goh's sole "ambition" is to be left alone. He has no idea how he overthrew the last ruler, but it happened while she was trying to kill him and use his corpse as a puppet! He's far from "oppressing" the Denizens of the Aurorae Car- they were used to that sort of treatment from Holda, but it actually took them weeks to learn that there was a new ruler, because Goh never so much as left the palace! As for the Wild Hunt, they came with the new job. They came to him unprompted to swear allegiance, and he's even issued orders to prevent them from harming people in their hunts! And sure, Goh did threaten the Red Lotus Remnants with his freaky ice powers- after they barged into his new home, offered to help him in the name of his former friend, and gave him a "The Reason You Suck" Speech that smashed his Trauma Button. About the only thing he does that fits in with The Evil Prince image the RLR have of him is going out to seek alliances to increase his influence- and considering that he's been nearly killed three times since he arrived on the Train, seeking out more power doesn't sound like such a bad idea. Most people, including Goh, might be convinced that Goh has officially gone to the Dark Side, but his actions just don't seem to bear that out. It doesn't seem likely that the misunderstandings will be cleared up anytime soon, though- especially after he decides to take in Grace Monroe. thats a lotta words and this feels like a sinkhole
2. Characters.Sword Of Truth: Smug Snake: Even when he's lost everything, he bitterly rages at Richard for ruining his plans and absolutely refuses to salute him. relationship is unknown
3. VideoGame.The Battle For Middle Earth: Victory Pose: The troops troops cheer after every successful minor skirmish. That is to say, if you send one squad of cavalry to run down one squad of orcs, they will stop and cheer once the orcs are dead. Every. Time. Well, at least morale is good. They will also cheer if a hero runs near them. Which makes sense for, say, Aragorn or Théoden, but not quite as much for the hobbits. Cheer Before Frodo?

Conclusions

Only 2% of examples fit the definition of "group of people bow to Bob who is low on the social scale". If the requirement for a group is removed, the correct usage is 8%. So even the clearest requirements in the definition are not being met. The ways in which the trope is misused indicate that tropers think the trope is just about any bowing. This is a far bigger problem than I anticipated. Though, to answer my original question, most of the extra aspects such as involving a King Incognito or the king bowing first were not seen at all, so these can probably be removed from the description. A lot of misuse probably also came from the unnecessary mention of Awesome Moment of Crowning.

Possible solutions

• More clearly define the trope as "several people, or one superior, bows to an inferior Bob". Clean up the description, on-page examples, and wicks.
• The above + rename the trope to something clearer like Bow To The Nobody. The current name not only has trope-namer syndrome, but is also a bad snowclone of Kneel Before Zod.
• Cut+yard the trope because it currently has too few correct wicks. It has a lot of inbounds so this is probably too nuclear a solution.