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" The only question I
Ever thought was hard
Is 'Do I like Kirk
Or do I like Picard?'"
Broken Base is basically a civil war among fans of a particular series. It involves infighting over whether or not the series is still good after a certain change. The loyalists believe it's as good as ever - maybe even better - and constantly hold up its merits. The dissenters feel betrayed by declining quality, and attack the series at every opportunity. They'll also be annoyed by the other fans' loyalty, and will call them blind fanboys / fangirls. However, despite not liking the show anymore, the dissenters will linger around fan forums solely to criticize the show and the loyalists. The loyalists will reply by calling the dissenters a bunch of fuddy-duddies who go all Chicken Little at the slightest change to the status quo.
This trope can apply to fans of ongoing works in any medium and any genre.
Here there be Fan Dumb (and consequences such as Discontinuity).
See Also: They Changed It Now It Sucks, Internet Backdraft, Replacement Scrappy. Also see Base Breaker for if one character is the cause of it all.
Overlaps with Fan Hater, Love It Or Hate It, Unpleasable Fanbase, Opinion Myopia.
Examples:
open/close all folders
Anime and Manga
- Anime as a whole has the Subbing Versus Dubbing debate.
- There was an awful lot of disagreement over the Digimon seasons after Digimon Adventure. Did 02 suck because it downplayed the original team in favor of the newbies? Did Tamers suck because it was too serious, or because it took place in an Alternate Universe? Did Frontier suck because it moved away from the very concept of Mons? And let's not even get into Savers.
- Sailor Moon has many a debate, even to this day. Is Chibi Usa an annoying Usagi clone or a deep, important addition? Is Rei a complete witch or is she just assertive? Is Mamoru better than Seiya for Usagi, or vice versa? Then there is the whole lesbian thing ...
- Recently, some debates have sprung up on whether or not Code Geass and its Oddly Named Sequel are undergoing Plot Tumor, Sequelitis, what-have-you. The ones detesting the sequel said that many of the above apply, while the more diehard fans defended the sequel and sometimes resorted to calling the dissenters Unpleasable Fanbase. The Fan Dumb is here in full force now, if the illogical and vitriolic rants this troper has started seeing on various blogs regarding the last few episodes are any indicator.
- Amusingly, aside from Ship To Ship Combat, the fanbase more or less raged and celebrated as one (see the hate for Suzaku and Rolo, the cheers for Kallen Combo and Orange-kun as examples) up to about R2 15, when more cracks started to appear in the base. When the bomb dropped in R2 19 (which was ironic given the literal one in the previous episode) the fan base instantly exploded. The pieces from this continued to break apart and become more vicious right up to the end and after.
- The Naruto fanbase this way over Sasuke Uchiha, A.K.A. the most divisive character in existence.
- And the first paragraph above pretty much perfectly describes the fanbase regarding Part II/Shippuden. The revelation of Itachi being good and the ending of the Pain Invasion arc probably being the most notable divisions, aside from everything Sasuke does.
- Fullmetal Alchemist fandom when it comes to the manga versus the anime (especially since they differ hugely in latter stages). The recent another anime adaption isn't helping.
- Misty's departure in Pokemon pretty much split the fandom into those that won't have anything to do with any episodes past Johto and those that openly embrace the newer episodes. This also led to a massive Flame War over the female characters, which, amazingly, still persists to this day.
- And will probably continue until Ash actually gets some ass. Which may never happen, as the combined internet backdraft of the groups not picked as cannon would likely destroy every computer on earth in a fiery explosion.
- The evolution war... Oh,the evolution war... "Will Piplup ever evolve?".
- No. It got an entire episode to settle that one.
- Even worse, the Buizel war.
- Also, the Pikachu's gender debate.
- Also, part of the fandom dislike Dawn's sudden winning streak... Sheesh, can't a formerly depressed girl with a broken self esteem win a little?
- Some parts of the fandom wish for a more mature anime show, while another part believes the show is just fine the way it is. The former usually gets labeled with wanting blood, guts, and sex as mature means just that these days.
- Don't expect to strike up a discussion about which pair of VAs are better without expecting a full blown flame war with people who argue one of two things: 4Kids' VAs are better and PUSA's suck balls, or vice versa. This got so out of hand on one community that they had to actually BAN Voice Actor discussions because of it. If THAT doesn't say Serious Business...
- Gundam suffers this in spades. The stereotypical portrayal of the fandom is essentially older fans shouting "Its Popular Now It Sucks", while the fans who got into the franchise through newer shows like Gundam Wing and Gundam SEED mock them for their True Art Is Angsty attitude. This attitude was a lot more prevalent in the early 2000s when Gundam Wing became many peoples' Gateway Series into both anime in general and Gundam in specific, but has cooled down a good bit.
- On the other hand, every time a new series is revealed, expect half the fans to scream about how such-and-such plot element is lifted directly from an earlier Gundam series, while the other half sighs and says "It hasn't even come out yet, shut up and give it a fair chance."
- Yu-Gi-Oh, starting from the first spinoff, GX, and onwards. There are some who enjoyed GX, some who hated it from the very beginning, and some who watched it through then suddenly began talking about how much they hated it all along. Then there's 5D's, with some of the most broken fanbases ever. This goes beyond card games on motorbikes, this goes to the most annoying fanbases ever. The only thing that can be agreed on: The final boss for GX was a total cop-out.
- Death Note. Is Light Yagami a dark and interesting Anti Hero or an out and out Villain Protagonist? Was it right for the series to end with his downfall, or should he have somehow managed to Karma Houdini his way out of it? Is Near just a pale imitation of L or an interesting character in his own right? Is Matt/Mello inherently superior to Mello/Near? Does Misa really come between Light and L? Is it even worth reading on after L dies? One thing's for certain: you're probably better off not asking some of the fans.
- Fan reaction towards Tenchi In Tokyo seems to be mixed for various reasons, namely the questionable animation quality and the introduction of Sakuya, which pretty much left the Ryoko and Ayeka Fan Dumb foaming at their mouths.
- The same can be said for the third OAV, and to a lesser extent, Tenchi Universe.
- The Endless Eight arc of The Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya has sharply divided the once-strong fanbase into Love It Or Hate It.
- Fans of Neon Genesis Evangelion split over which ending is "better": the original TV series ending or the one from End of Evangelion.
- And it'll only get worse, now that there's going to be a third ending.
- Wait, what ISN'T the Evangelion fandom split over???
- Gerard
Characters
- Lost has had a total of twenty-five regular cast members so far, and given how diverse they are, every fans' preferences are varied. Hurley seems to be liked the most, whereas you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who likes Nikki and Paulo.
- There's also some growing hatred specifically towards the holy trinity of Lost (Kate, Jack, and Sawyer). This happened sometime around season 2.
- Of the three probably Kate more than anyone else, since her back story has long since been fully explained yet she's never actually developed or grown in any appreciable way and her sole remaining purpose seems to be nothing but to jump in and break up any relationship Jack or Sawyer have with anyone else thus generating more wangst for everyone.
- Heroes characters are the same way. Except for Hiro. Everybody loves Hiro.
- Sadly, this troper does know of at least one person who hates Hiro, then again said person is a classic Stop Having Fun Guys type.
- Hiro is practically a Troper Surrogate, and would be actively posting on this site if he was real. Note that tropers are the bane of the SHFG's existence.
- Ever since it became Hiro's destiny to hold the Idiot Ball for life neither This Troper nor anyone he knows, has liked Hiro all that much. Hate is a strong word, however.
- Sylar. He's either the show's Wesley or the best thing on the show. There is no middle ground, you either love him or hate him.
- This troper has to disagree there. I like Sylar just fine but I've been irritated by how he's become the show's starring character more or less. I'm glad he's been mind raped so that other villains/heroes can enjoy the spotlight for a little while.
- Leon Scott Kennedy from Resident Evil 4: he's either a cool Bad Ass, Or a cliched cheesy one liner spitting big damn hero.
- But some people might like him specifically because he's So Bad Its Good at being badass.
- In Degeneration he doesn't even have the one-liners, causing both sides to beg Capcom to return him to his RE 4 persona so that they can have something to complain about.
- Shadow the Hedgehog of the Sonic series is either considered to be the worst video game character ever made or the best thing to ever happen to Sonic. He's pretty much the Sasuke Uchiha of video gaming.
- Dawn from Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Even Buffy herself, after the first few seasons.
- Sisko from DS 9 if you believe that.
- I can see it, if the question is not whether or not to like Sisko, but which version of Sisko to like.
- It ain't just Sisko. Pick any Star Trek character. Let's take an easy one James T. Kirk. Womanizing arrogant dog rapist, or..the quintessential All-American hero and the prototype for all great sci-fi characters??
- Aw. Now I can't watch TOS without thinking of Kirk as a dog rapist. And arrogant about it too.
- Venom from Spider-Man. Some believe him to be one Spidey's greatest foes, while others believe him to be one of the worst.
- And lets not forget the divide between the Eddie Brock fans and Mac Gargan fans.
- Carnage too for that matter
- His stint as an anti-hero is even more polarizing.
- Shinji Ikari from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Not to mention Asuka Langley Soryuu. Coincidentally, those who love one tend to hate the other.
- Appreciation of Shinji seems to hinge largely, though not solely, on the dub. In Japanese, he is presented as a weak, broken young boy. In English, he's a snotty brat. American fans often take the latter view of the character. When questioned... well, guess how they watched the show.
- Really? I've observed a much less drastic skew. I've come across a number of people (and I'm one of them) who think both that Shinji is a brilliant character and that Spike Spencer nailed the performance.
- In addition, this one has noticed that Evangelion couples tend to create some sparks. Mention you prefer one pairing on the wrong board, and you find yourself causing a version of WWII to break out.
- The Supernatural fandom's feelings are... complicated, to put it mildly. You either hate John with a passion or wish he was your dad, you either find it easier to be in the 'Poor Dean'/'Bastard Sammy' or the 'Poor Sammy'/'Bastard Dean' mindset and it would be easier, unless you actually want to start a flame war, to not mention the female guest stars at all.
- With regards to Sam and Dean, you either want them to stay as fucked up and as co-dependent as they are or you want them to grow the hell up and start acting like adults. There's no middle ground.
- There's going to be a character like this in every work of fiction, but you'll probably find much division in the Harry Potter fandom regarding Professor Snape, Draco Malfoy, or Horace Slughorn. Even Dumbledore.
- The Deathly Hallows - in particular, Snape's backstory and subesquent callback to "Snape's Worst Memory" - sparked this in regards to Lily Potter (nee Evans). Part of the fandom saw Lily's abandoning of Snape as his own fault, as his calling her a "mudblood" - even in the heat of the moment - as the last straw in what was already a strained relationship (What with his hanging with a group of people who consider her half-a-person, at best). Others see her as an ungrateful bitch who dumped her best friend after a single slip of the tongue. Note that the latter view is held mostly by the "Snape Was A Good Person All Along" crowd.
- J.D. from Scrubs with regards to his Flanderization. You'll find Season 1 J.D. is pretty different from Season 2-onwards J.D. Some find his character to be very much derailed while others found J.D. at his funniest.
- Spader from Pendragon has no middle ground. Either you love him, or you hate him. Quite possibly you hate him because it seems like everyone else loves him.
- Gwen Cooper from Torchwood. She's either an annoying woman with a shrill Welsh accent, or a lovely woman with a sexy Welsh accent.
- Don't forget Ianto's death from Day Four or what Jack does, including sacrificing his grandson to save 10% of the Earth's children, from Day Three onward. Oh boy are the opinions on those mixed.
- From Code Geass: Suzaku. Lelouch. You CAN'T take a third option.
- Yes I can!
- This Troper likes both of them. So there.
- Most people would agree with me in saying that both slide wildly along the course of awesomeness and justifiability of actions throughout the series, especially Suzaku.
- While others see Suzaku as a self righteous, holier than thou, Lawful Neutral careerist.
- Death Note's Light is either a Magnificent Bastard or a Smug Snake.
- Every single Doctor Who companion. Yes, even Adric and Mel. And ESPECIALLY Rose.
- Most of the Doctors as well, with the possible exception of Four.
- He gets his share of Hype Backlash. Or something like that.
- Tom Baker seems to be less overwhelmingly adored by new fans than by older ones. Organized Who fandom arose when Tom Baker was Doctor, amongst people who grew up with Tom Baker. And in the US, Tom Baker is in some regions the only Doctor ever shown. In the rest, people tend to know him as the "first Doctor". To a newer audience, he's just one of many past Doctors, and is judged more on his merits.
- This Troper loves the Fourth Doctor, but thinks Tom Baker is kind of an ass.
- Opinion towards the new show itself falls right into this category.
- All the Tales Of Symphonia characters.
- And its spin-off sequel
- Heck, there are broken bases for all of the games after Symphonia, notably Tales of the Abyss
- In the Halo fandom there's the Fred vs. John, (and even Linda, and Kelly in some circles) debate about who has the better skill, likability and Bad Assedness etc...
- Sgt. Johnson FTW!!!
- Another area of bitter contention is the inclusion of the Arbiter as a second Player Character in Halo 2. Some believe his revenge/lost honor motivation is boring, cliched and distracts from the Master Chief's story. Others believe that his more emotion-driven story is a pleasant change from the usually stoic Chief, and value the insight into Covanent culture his levels bring.
- When the Arbiter was removed as a PC in Halo 3 the debate was rekindled, with some complaining about his relegation to Side Kick status, some applauding his removal and some complaining that he was still included in the game at all (preferring, it seems, that he'd been written out arbitrarily between games.)
- ODST's vs. Spartans...mostly due to the way both are dipicted in the novels, and then ther's the upcoming Halo 3: ODST.
- Winnie Cooper from The Wonder Years, Mostly because people thought she was a whiny bitch who treated Kevin like trash, and was more or less just stringing him along. While others felt that she was being nice to Kevin out of pity, and never really liked him "in that way".
- Likewise with Kevin during the later seasons. Especially over the fact he turned down arguably better girlfriends (E.g. Madeline, and Cara) to chase down Winnie Cooper.
- The Wonder Woman animated film has caused a minor base-breakage over, not the villain, not the love interest, but her nose. I am not kidding. The major splitting point so far is about whether or not her nose looks good. Detractors say it makes her look ugly and even horselike. Others say it looks appropriately Grecian and this troper has even heard people say the nose is what sold them on this direct-to-DVD movie. Oh, yes.
- Team Rocket from Pokemon. Some fans have viewed them as the best (if not the only good) part of the show, while others view them as just some elaborate Overused Running Gag who don't serve any purpose. There's also controversy on this very site about whether or not they're intended to be sympathetic or are simply bad people.
- Sarah Connor as of recently, with people saying that she's a jerk. And then there are those who says she's over shadowing John. But there are still those that think the character is Bad Ass incarnate, And that You are not suppose to like her. You are just suppose to try to understand her.
- This troper would like to point out that it's called "The Sarah Connor Chronicles," not "The John Connor Chronicles." Sarah Connor is supposed to be the main character.
- Similarly Riley for some reason. But honestly it seems like every character that isn't Summer Glau qualifies.
- Varian Wrynn from World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King. He's either a racist warmonger or a noble man attacking those who have murdered his people. Even Word Of God stating he's an ultimately noble, if violent, individual (being between the two viewpoints) has yet to sway anyone.
- Part of this is that to the racist warmonger camp, his "ultimately noble" quality is viewed as an Informed Ability.
- It really is, as far as the game goes. Many players' first and only impression of him is the Battle for the Undercity, where he addresses fan-favorite Thrall and his people as "you green-skinned abominations." He's a little more laid-back in the comic, which came first, so this may be a case of Adaptation Decay.
- Well, to many Alliance players sick of the horde consistently giving the Alliance crap with almost no retaliation from their own side Varian is often seen as being a fairly good thing. With terrible hair. Seriously, compare the number of Pre-Varian quests where the Horde kill Alliance NP Cs to the ones where Alliance kill Horde NP Cs, the differance is staggering. That said, exclusively Horde playering people are relatively unlikely to have noticed this.
- Pretty much every character in A Song Of Ice And Fire. Examples include:
- Most Avatar The Last Airbender characters have a Hatedom, but Katara is probably the one who generates the most arguments. Mention her on any fan forum and within an hour you'll get opinions from "Stupid Mary Sue needs to die!!" to "She's so awesome!" and, if you're lucky, you won't generate another Ship War.
- Mai is also subject to this. She is either a boring underdeveloped, flat character who doesn't deserve Zuko,who is arguably the most complex and interesting character on the show, or she is kickass. There are a few fans who Take A Third Option but they tend to stay out of it.
- Is Aang a good person who grows and matures through the course of the series, or a selfish entitlement whore who stays a little boy forever and doesn't deserve his happy ending? Both sides can be pretty vicious about defending their stance.
- Zuko. Either you love him to pieces and firmly believe his status as The Woobie, or you hate him and think he's a whiny Emo Teen who deserved his flaming bitchslap.
- Similar to the Wonder Woman example, Lara Croft gets a minor breakage in the base do to her character design. And of course we all know the reason for that. Her design for Tomb Raider: Legends has gotten some complaints as well from some fans saying the updated design is too "Ethnic Looking", Especially on the game's box cover...
- Hitsugaya from Bleach is or is quickly becoming one of these. His status as the most popular character from the show is most likely attributed to the daunting amount of Fan Girls he has, and due to this status he's become more and more prevalent in the series, including an entire movie based around him. Many people, for various reasons, are getting absolutely sick and tired of him. The biggest divide seems to have been caused by one of the most recent chapters, where Hitsugaya supposedly kills Halibel. Considering how poorly matched he was against Halibel at the beginning of the fight, this was either a huge Crowning Moment Of Awesome for the young captain or the most heinous Ass Pull used in the series to date. Of course time will tell if the victory sticks, but for now, the fans are in debate.
- Bonnie and Shego both generate plenty of arguments in Kim Possible, due to their antagonistic relationships with Kim and their other, perceived relationships with Kim in Shipping circles. Is Bonnie just an annoying and bitchy Libby, or is she more complex than that? The Chained Heat episode "Bonding" lent credibility to the latter arguments, but anti-Bonnie fans are quick to point out her Aesop Amnesia following that episode. They also use the scene where she kisses Ron in "Homecoming Upset" to argue that she's a "manipulative bitch and must die!!!". And just how Affably Evil is Shego? Is she a genuinely good person deep down, or is she a Draco In Leather Pants whose fans are just saying she's good because she's hot? This, of course, not taking into account the many, many female fans Shego has.
- Many, many, many female fans.
- Be very careful being pro-Kigo (Kim/Shego) on a KiRo (Kim/Ron) board, and versa-visa. Both sides have their fans which demonstrate exactly why Fan is short for Fanatic.
- Whitley Gilbert from A Different World. Mostly centers around you buying her Heel Face Turn.
- Crona from Soul Eater has caused much Viewer Gender Confusion. Is Crona a girl or a boy? Some fans think Crona is a girl, others think Crona is a boy. Both sides of the gender argument have points that support them... and as of right now, we STILL don't know what Crona is!
- In chapter 60 of the manga we see a nearly naked Crona (with the "no-no" parts covered) and even then it's difficult to tell what Crona's gender is.
- From what this troper understands, the manga-ka hasn't decided yet.
- Xena: Warrior Princess had Joxer, who was either a painfully unfunny, one-note bumbler or a welcome comic relief, depending on which side if the fence you fell. The fact that the actor who played him, Ted Raimi, is the younger brother of the show's Executive Producer, Sam, did nothing but add fuel to the flames. Nor did it help that the character became the personal Wesley of a few of the show's writers, who had a habit of working him into scripts he had no objective reason to appear in, or worse, pushing the idea that he would make a fine romantic interest for Gabrielle (which only had the effect of pitting Joxer fans against another substantial segment of the show's fanbase). If you want to start an argument in a roomful of Xena fans, just bring him up, pro or con.
- When it comes to Danny Phantom, you got two: Sam Manson and Danielle. They either like Sam because she's Danny's love interest and has an interesting personality or they hate her because she is the love interest and has an irritating personality; either because she's a forceful Liberal or possible venture into Canon Sue territory. Danielle could either be loved because she is an interesting addition to the series or because she's a useless third wheel.
Comic Books
- The Super Hero comic book medium as a whole is divided as to if the Dark Age was a good thing that brought maturity to the medium, or if it's all just Wangst and the Silver Age lighthearted goofiness was better. The theme of the Modern Age seems to be the conflict between the two groups, both of which are fighting for control of the asylum.
- Let's not forget the split between DC and Marvel fans. Then, there's the people into indie comics...
- Ask any comic board whether the V For Vendetta movie was a good or bad adaptation, and then duck.
- The Watchmen movie was expected to bring more of the same. It has.
- Spider-Man:Brand New Day. Virtually everything about it is either the greatest thing ever, or a bastardisation of all that is good with Spidey.
- There are people who think this is good? I was under the impression there are people who tolerate it and people who hate it.
- That's One More Day that has the more universal loathing towards it. Some fans have dumped their hatred on that series alone and decided to judge Brand New Day on its own merits rather than by what led up to it. Of course, there are still fans who say "No! Peter and MJ for life." Then there are some that resent the You Suck aspects of the new "Everyman" version of Peter.
- The Mighty Thor (aka Marvel's Thor) fan base is as broken as you can get. Half the fan base is divided into those who care only about 'good showings' and having Thor win every. single. fight (and they won't accept otherwise), while the other half just wants to enjoy the comics in peace. And don't forget those who hate Beta Ray Bill or absolutely love him, and love the new costume or hate it...
- Wolverine. Either he's the biggest, toughest badass on the team, or a spotlight-stealing Marty Stu.
- Gambit is another polarizing character from the team: He's either the Charming Mischief maker the man perfect for Rogue or a callous Casanova that's an insulting stereotype of Cajuns and Rogue is better off with someone else. He also gets called a Marty Stu.
- The Wonder Woman fandom (and to a lesser degree, the Justice League fandom) is rather divided over Diana killing Max Lord before the events of Infinite Crisis. One faction thinks it was a perfectly acceptable storyline plot twist (as Max Lord's mind control over Superman could only be broken with his death) while others considered it both a pointless example of grim-darkness, on top of the outright character assassination of Max Lord, turned evil-evil to prop up a storyline that could have easily of been done with another character without crappy on Max's character. The fact that the scene was reproduced over a dozen plus times afterwords, only served to remind people of how crappy it was.
- Wondy fandom defines Broken Base. There is absolutely nothing we can't make an epic battle between good and evil. Secret ID, or no secret ID? Pre-Crisis or post-Crisis? Like a love interest, or loathe him? (Though never 'her,' there was surprisingly little argument over Io.) Love the costume, or despise it? Yea or nay on the invisible plane? And what about her frigging heels?
- Sweet fluffy lord, Iron Man fandom. Post Marvel Civil War, it's divided between people who think he is virtually irredeemable and will cry "Irondick!" at any opportunity, and those who think he was just the victim of bad writing, and every fumbled attempt to get him back on track afterwards. On scans_daily, it got so bad that you couldn't make a post with Tony Stark in it without a two-page kerfuffle in the comments.
- The Legion Of Super Heroes. These days, the big online fight is between They Changed It Now It Sucks fans (and some with more specific reasons) of the original Legion only, particularly the 80s Legion, and fans who accept that there can be more than one version. The first group often claim their fandom is more valid, that their series allowed greater involvement and engagement by fans. No dispute is so vicious as the one between "A Continuity Reboot is never a good option, because it breaks reader investment" and "Rebooting is a legitimate way to replace a dysfunctional series." Legion fandom also frequently argues (in no particular order) whether or not optimism or even utopianism are essential to its future, what the role of Superboy was/is/should be (ranging from "The Legion offers a future setting for Superboy adventures" to "Superboy/man steals the spotlight whenever he appears"), whether the Legion are more interesting as teenagers or adults, and don't get them started on whether "Five Years Later" was any good. Another common dispute goes something like, "Most of the threeboot Legionnaires are unsympathetic!" "Did you actually read the series?" "They are heroes, just with different motivations." "But those reasons aren't what I like about the Legion."
- Green Lantern. God help you if you try and discuss who is the best Green Lantern, or why the less well known John Stewart was put on the JL/JLU cartoon. Charges of racisms, reverse racism fly like crazy. And that's not even touching the Kyle Raynor issue.
- The fight between fans rallying behind their preferred Lantern is one of the most persistent in fandom. Probably due to DC creating a "there can be only one" policy back in 1994, having completely misread the fanbase.
- Well, they misread the fanbase to the point that sales on Green Lantern doubled overnight, so as misreads go, that at least was a very profitable one.
- Batgirl fans are split over their preference for Barbara Gordon, the original Batgirl, or her Darker And Edgier replacement Cassandra Cain.
- Part of the reason for the broken base in this instance, is DC's steadfast refusal to uncripple Barbara Gordon and the fact that Cassandra stole her costume from the Huntress, who first revived the Batgirl costume before editorial decided to give the costume to a new character. Also, DC's decision to turn Cassandra evil-evil didn't go over well either following Infinite Crisis, leading to a haphazard retconning of her heel turn to be the work of Deathstroke the Terminator feeding her evil drugs.
- of course Uncrippling Babs might cause some Unfortunate Implications though.
- More accurately, Batman stole the costume from Huntress. Batman and Babs then gave the costume to Cass. Huntress being, at the time and depending who was writing her, somewhere between The Rival and some kind of straw vigilante foe for the rest of the Batclan, this was meant to read as the true holders of the Batgirl legacy reclaiming the role from a usurper and passing it to a rightfully chosen heir. Cass fans consider Barbara's explicit choice of Cass to be a clear sign of her legitimacy. However, this creates something of a second Broken Base with Huntress fans.
- Avengers fans and Brian Michael Bendis fans have basically made Avengers fandom a literal nightmare of a landmine field. Partly because the Bendis fans think Bendis's run is great simply because it's being written by Bendis, while some longtime Avengers fans are horrified at what they see as Bendis "raping" the franchise.
- Deadpool. Post-Fabian, either "back to his roots zany-violent awesome," or "homicidal maniac that ignores all character development from Cable & Deadpool."
- Of course one has to point out that he was a homicidal maniac in Fabian's run too and he has never been that heroic.
- Watchmen. You have to like it either for its literary values or Rorschach and Doc Manhattan. There are maybe two or three people in the entire universe who actually didn't read it for Rorschach or literary values. These people actually read it for fun or personal enjoyment. They read it for FUN. Not for Rorschach, not for symbolism, not for literary value, not for hidden messages, FOR FUN.
- To this Troper's shock Captain America! Since the Civil War... fans have been praying for a resurrected Steve Rogers and now it's coming July 2009! But now are bemoaning "it's too soon" and "it'll "cheapen his death."
- Assuming it really is him and not some clone
- Back to Spider-Man: Most of J Michael Straczynski run has this kind of issues. Especially Sins Past story, which reveals that Gwen Stacy slept with Norman Osborn, divided fans between those who sees it as "profanation", those who say its good character development, those who don't care, and those who, because of never-ending arguments in fandom, started to hate Gwen Stacy.
- And there is his first story where it was suggested that Peter's powers could come not from radiation, but from magic. Some people says that it ruins Stan Lee's great origin, some says it's far better that Lee's origin, and some (including This Troper say what Spider-Man himself said about it - "I don't care".
- Go to a comics forum. Make a comment about anything Grant Morrison has written since JLA (apart from All-Star Superman). Hell, make a comment about something Grant Morrison might get the opportunity to write. Then sit back and watch the flame war between those who loathe him unreservedly and those who're convinced he's the second coming.
- She-Hulk suffers from a ridiculously case of this, given the relatively small size of her following. It all revolves around the different approaches that have been taken to the character. Opinion divides between those that favour the original Savage incarnation, the 4th wall breaking Sensational equivalent conceived by Byrne, the wacky Dan Slott version and the more serious and action orientated PAD version - not to mention the people that consider her transformation to be Fetish Fuel and generally, there is to be no quarter given when it comes to this... And the naming of Lyra (the daughter of Thundra and the Hulk) as the Savage She-Hulk created a mass case of knotted panties.
- The Green Lantern fanbase (listed above) was greatly split on if it was a good idea to bring Hal Jordan back to life in the Green Lantern: Rebirth series. When The Flash: Rebirth series was announced, with the news it was bringing back Barry Allen, the Flash fanbase suffered an almost identical split down the center. At least this time people could see it coming.
Film
- Star Wars fans primarily fight over whether the prequels are a good addition to the franchise, and the quality of the Expanded Universe.
- And don't get anyone started on whoever fired first: Han Solo or Greedo. (Interestingly, there is a picture
 ◊ of George Lucas wearing a "Han Shot First" shirt while shooting the fourth Indiana Jones film.)
- And the Traviss books. Mandaloreans=avatars of all that is noble/powerful/good, Jedi=Untermenschen. As can be expected in a universe that is more or less built around the idea of the Jedi being awesome, this generated a bit of a firestorm.
- Fortunatly for the fanbase, Ms. Traviss will now focus her talent on other franchises. A personal comment from this troper: Thank God.
- Blade Trinity created an upheaval among fans; some felt the Nightstalkers over shadowed Blade (especially Hannibal King), while others felt the Nightstalkers were the best thing about the movie.
- Spider-Man 3
- X-Men 3
- When it comes to the horror film called The Descent there are a lot of Alternate Character Interpretation debates concerning Juno and Sarah that have splintered the fandom, and caused a lot of Internet Backdraft...
- Some see Sarah as a broken sympathetic woman who was pushed over the edge by Juno's idiocy and incompetence. Not to mention she found out about Juno's affair with her husband, and the coverup of the injury to Beth. Others see her as a psycho bitch who unfairly condemned Juno to death by intentionally wounding her leg over a genuine mistake she made.
- To say nothing of the fact Juno tried to cover up the accidental death of their friend Beth, which she caused during an intense chaotic battle with the mutants (in the dark mind you). Was just that... an accident.
- Some see Juno as a good (but flawed) friend who was just trying to make the group of friends close again by taking them caving. And acted heroically when they were being attacked by the mutants (for the most part). While others see her as a incompetent home wrecking jackass who got everyone killed.
- Then there's the third group who see both of them as sympathetic flawed characters.
- Group 4 sees them both as unredeemable jackasses who deserved everything they got...
- It looks like Indiana Jones fandom
will be are like this over The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
- This troper's university's Archaeology department, big Indy fans each and all, have declared the fourth film doesn't exist. Just an example.
- Given that ThisTroper does not acknowledge that there is a film titled "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom", your statement is still correct.
- Given its ratings on the Internet Movie Database, especially compared to Raiders of the Lost Ark, it's quite clear that the effect is not restricted to universities. It does make one wonder whether a "Loyal" fanbase still exists at all.
- Rob Zombie's Halloween
- Then there's Highlander... oh dear God. You got the Original fans, the Zeist people, the TV series fans, the multiple continuity fans, the "stong immortals" fans and their "weak immortals" nemeses, those who cherry pick, those who actually liked The Source, and those that come up with their own unique views. And guess what, that doesnt cover HALF of the categories these fans are grouped into... AND they all hate each other with such a passion it makes sunis and shias look like first graders fighting in a schoolyard.
- Someone actually liked The Source? That surprises me more than the statement that there are fans of Spider-man: Brand New Day.
- The Godzilla fandom. Particularly when it comes to the American remake.
- Another example would be the recent Millennium-era films that were released from 1999-2004.
- Godzilla: Final Wars anyone?
- Question: Are 28 Days Later and its sequel movies zombie movies? It may seem like a simple yes-or-no question, but there are places on the Internet where you will be lynched if you get the answer wrong.
- The concept of whether or not zombies can run explodes nearly every time a new work arrives featuring speedy undead (and while the creators of 28 Days Later never actually refer to the infected as "zombies", creators of works such as the video game Left 4 Dead do, leading to a barrage of complaints such as "STOP CALLING THIS A ZOMBIE FILM/SHOW/GAME"). The terrifyingly divisive nature of the question came to a surreal peak after the UK digital channel E4 aired Dead Set, a show about a
zombie infected undead running creature infestation on the Big Brother house written by comedy writer Charlie Brooker. When Brooker referred to it as a zombie show whilst promoting it, Simon Pegg (of Shaun Of The Dead fame) took umbrage. The result? The two having an argument via a national newspaper.
- Horror fans seems to be split over the quality of audacious foreign horror films when compared to American horror films. They're either refreshing and daring, or gory pretentious crap.
- Also among horror fans there's a sub-debate on what should be considered a Horror as oppose to a Thriller and vice versa. Some feel that Thrillers are neutered horror films.
- Punisher: War Zone, it's either completely horrible or the best Punisher film ever.
- Believe it of not there's quite a few people who hate James Cameron's Aliens cause they felt he destroyed the concept of the first film.
- Similarly Terminator 2: Judgment Day.
- Theres also a split over what the franchise should cover. One group want more exploits with Arnie's T-800 model, while the second group think Arnie is played out, and want to see future John Connor lead the resistance against the machines. The latter group is getting their wish.
- This might have caused some resentment towards T2. Some fans felt Cameron just rehashed the first Terminator film, but with better special effects, instead of giving them a movie about the future John Connor.
- Both sets of fans can hopefully agree that the Goddamn Batman vs. The Terminator is an awesome idea.
- It wasn't. The current split seems to be between whether The Sarah Connor Chronicles or Terminator Salvation is the superior take on the franchise, but there is relatively wide agreement that Salvation wasn't nearly as good as hoped.
- George A Romero's Diary Of The Dead is either a sign of his further decline, or his rebound.
- Both Alien Vs Predator, and Alien vs Predator: Requiem has a Broken Base. Fans of the former hates the latter, and fans of the latter hates the former. And then there's the other group of fans that hate them equally and the last group that like them both equally.
- The Matrix movie was followed by those other two sequels. Or So I Heard. Also check out this 10-year Matrix anniversary web comic from "xkcd": "- Wanna put on the other two? - Crash! Wham! Ow! Ow!"
- Toy Story vs Toy Story 2. While the first one was an instant classic, the sequel is often thought of as being an Even Better Sequel which has led to much dispute between fans of the first. This troper will be interested in seeing how Toy Story 3 plays out too.
- Shrek gets this as well, between its first and second movies. But definitely not its third.
Internet
- Furry Fandom. See that quote on the top of the Furry Fandom page? That's in contention.
- So bad that when Randy Milholland has a Something Positive forum, he banned the use of the word "furry" after his memorable Story Arc that had PeeJee actually finding out just what a "furry" is.
- You Tube Poop is split between people who take its creators' intentions to heart and make videos with increasingly higher volume, more filters and more obscure sources without thinking that something that was originally made for annoyance's sake might evolve into something you do for laughs and people who apply the Rule Of Funny to mix and match words and phrases from well-known sources to make funny stories starring the characters from these sources but think Poop started with the CD-i. Examples of both, mostly the former, can be found on Youchew Poop.
- Beautifully summed up and parodied by Dan And Mabs Furry Adventures here.
- The new interface for Stumbleupon has caused this.
- This Very Wiki: In regards to naming and renaming tropes - those who like names that name check Trope Makers, Trope Codifiers and Fandom terms - even if everyone outside those fandoms are left scratching their heads and wondering what the trope is - and those who think names should be as universally understandable as possible, even if sacrifices some creativity (or even accuracy) in exchange for accessibility.
Literature
- The ending of the Harry Potter series pretty much split the base in two, especially the epilogue, which was either an appropriate coda that closed the circle while showing that life would go on, or a piece of rubbish that shamelessly abused the cliches of the series and was the worst thing in all seven books. As well, Order of the Phoenix and Half-Blood Prince were both accused of Character Derailment.
- One of the key factors in this was the shippers, who are famously argumentative (particularly Harry/Hermione versus Ron/Hermione). That said, given the size of Harry Potter fandom, pretty much any strong opinion about any ships or characters could cause an argument in the wrong forum.
- Also, some have actually accused Rowling of homophobia, given that of the Loads And Loads Of Characters, none was stated to be gay. Accordingly, the final scene of Half-Blood Prince was bashed for, and I swear I heard this quote somewhere, "pairing everyone up in neat little heterosexual rows." When she outed Dumbledore as gay, she was criticized for being too cowardly to put it in the books, though there was some arguable basis for that interpretation in the seventh book.
- The outing created two very distinct camps - Dumbledore's Not Gay, She Made That Up to Make Herself Feel Better vs. It Was Obvious Or Maybe It Wasn't, But It Didn't Matter Then (Purple Velvet Suit people!)
- Which of the movies are Adaptation Decay and which are Adaptation Distillation? Well, it depends on who you ask.
- The fandom for A Series Of Unfortunate Events has experienced some division over The Film Of The Book, which condensed the plot of the first three books with a vague approximation of the Ancient Conspiracy material from later ones, and over the vague ending of the actual book series (some thought it was nicely in-keeping with the developing themes of unanswerable questions, others had hoped for some more tangible resolution).
- Animorphs fandom. The last book. Was the Bolivian Army Ending a complete cop-out or a work of genius?
- Lord Of The Rings and Tolkien fandom in general: The Movies were either Adaptation Distillation or a pitiful case of Adaptation Decay.
- Not to mention the "To slash or not to slash" debate. All the pretty elves and men! vs. Tolkien would never have approved, and you are being untrue to the spirit of the books by slashing anyone! I'm pretty sure the two sides don't even talk to each other. They even have two huge completely separate fanfic archives. Stories of Arda is a family-friendly, strictly gen archive with stringent posting guidelines which explicitly declare the movies uncanonical. The very not worksafe Library of Moria has only two guidelines - no het and no gen.
- Here's the thing - wherever did anybody get the idea that the elves were pretty? I got the impression that they were downright terrifyingly awesome, TimeAbysses and all. Galadriel under the temporary temptation of the ring is Nightmare Fuel Unleaded, the Mirkwood Elf King isn't all that much better, and you have to remember that Tolkien's working off older conceptions of The Fair Folk, none of whom were very nice. Not that it would have stopped everyone, of course...
- Tolkien said Legolas was "too beautiful to be described in the words of men." Not sure if that applies to all elves, though.
- "Beautiful" in this case means something a leeeeetle different from "pretty," "sexy" or "cute" in the way the fangirls and the movie have gone. It's more the terrifyingly-awesome beauty that would scare a girl off and make her write fanfics about him, not get her to ask him out.
- And let's not overlook the Balrog wing debate.
- Tom Bombadil.
- Twilight has a nearly equal amount of Jacob/Bella and Edward/Bella shippers, causing massive Shipping Wars. This cartoon pretty much sums it up, except for not having a "Team Couldn't Care Less" choice.
- The base seems to have split even wider with the release of Breaking Dawn. The hardcore Twilight fans still say it's the best thing since smoked cheese, while others (including those who haven't just read the series for its Guilty Pleasures value) are still trying to repair the holes in their walls after reading through some of the bizarre and improbable plot twists.
- This troper was a hardcore Twilight fan until Breaking Dawn and can testify that many a fan reaction went well beyond wallbanging. There was ranting, raving, burning, and letters to the editor. Words cannot describe the murderous hate that a great many former fans of Twilight feel for the series, especially Breaking Dawn. And don't even get me started on Renesmee.
- One could also argue that the largest split occurred when the series was popularized by the Twilight movie. It basically split avid readers (or people who had previously not heard of the series at all) into people who pretended to always hate it because of how popular it made the books, people who like the books but hate the movies, and people who have Edward Cullen bedspreads, with few neutral positions otherwise.
- With the fifth book of The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy already subject to some Discontinuity, it is This Troper's official prediction that the announcement of a sixth book to be written by Eoin Colfer can't lead to anything but this.
- Since late 2004, the Phantom of the Opera fanbase has been divided into people who loved the movie of the musical and people who despised it, with a side order of people who dislike the musical period and prefer to stick with the original novel.
- And especially with the announcement of all things a Phantom of the Opera sequel, there's probably some cracks approaching from the distance.
- The Wheel Of Time fanbase often argues over whether the series jumped the shark somewhere between Books 5 and 10, with die-hards claiming that the series never jumped at all whilst the majority seem to at least agree that Book 10 is absolutely horrendous. There is then the question of whether Book 11 successfully repaired the damage or was a case of too little, too late. Then are the fans divided over whether Brandon Sanderson finshing Book 12 after Robert Jordan's death is a good thing or not. There are also the fans who argue that Robert Jordan is a master of depicting male-female relationships, whilst others claim that all his couples, even the older ones, behave like 13-year-olds and loathe the relationships whilst praising the worldbuilding and magic system. There is also a group of fandom who anxiously still want to know who killed Asmodean (a minor Heel Face Turn villain killed by unidentified means at the end of Book 5), whilst other fans see it as a pointless mystery of no import that does nothing other than spark arguments. In short, Wheel of Time message boards are like minefields waiting to explode if you say the wrong thing at the wrong time.
- The Anita Blake series fandom is fiercely split between fans of the earlier books who view much of what has transpired since book ten, Narcissus in Chains, as little more than a series of sadomasochistic fanfics featuring similar characters to those present in the earlier books and the 'Troo' fans, many of whom started reading the series in the middle and loyally and often vigorously defend the literary skill of the author and the direction she has taken the series.
- Not that there's anything WRONG with sadomasochistic fanfic ;)
- The Bible has more of this than the rest of this page combined
- A really interesting case appears concerning versions of The Bible. For instance, there are those who consider the King James Version the only Holy version and believe you will go straight to Hell if you read the New Living translation, The American Standard, or any other translation. On the flip side you have those "enlightened" Christians who refuse to use a version of the Bible published prior to 1988.
- Just those? How about the people who believe it should be written/read in nothing but the original languages (for those not paying attention, that's predominantly Hebrew and Greek, with other languages thrown in all over the place) vs. the people who believe it should be written/read in one's own language.
- And how about the folk who honestly believe that the KJV supercedes the original - witness (pun not intended) "If your original Hebrew disagrees with my original King James --- your original Hebrew is wrong." How I wish I were making that up.
- The phrases "Warrior Cats fandom" and "majority opinion" simply aren't compatible. If you try asking which series is the best on a forum, you won't get the same answer from everybody. Some parts of the fandom think anything outside of the Original Series is crap, but can't agree on what "sucks" more, or at which point everything started "sucking". This is divided even further by the fact that for both of most recent series people can't reach a consensus over whether the first three books sucked and the last three were great, or the first three were great and the last three sucked. Sunrise has also divided fans into a group who think it was absolutely horrible, and a group who think it was one of the greatest books in the entire series. Then there are the people who like all the books.
- It is simply physically impossible to find another person in the Warriors fandom who likes and dislikes the same characters as you. Don't even try. Almost all the main characters are prone to having several lovers and haters, most notably being Ashfur, who has divided the fandom into people who loathe him uncontrollably, and people who absolutely love him and believe that he was completely innocent, and that he was only driven to evil because Squirrelflight was mean to him. Logically speaking, there should be a middle ground where you acknowledge that his actions were completely wrong and unjustified, but are still able to sympathize with him, and are able to do so without making Squirrelflight into an evil manipulative whore. But there apparantly isn't...
- There are also some fans that act like liking one character requires hating another. For example, if you love Leafpool, you have to hate Nightcloud (or vice versa). If you love Firestar, you have to hate Scourge (or vice versa). If you love Ashfur, you have to hate Squirrelflight (or you just hate Ashfur regardless of your character preferences).
- The author also enjoys writing spin-offs to give most of the villains sympathetic backstories. The only problem with this is several fans completely misinterpreting them and believing that the Big Bads are genuinely good (see Rise of Scourge). This causes disagreements between these fans, and the fans who like them being evil.
- Sol. He's got lots of people who love him, and lots of people who absolutely hate him (of course, Sol fans love Sol for the same reasons other people hate him).
- Shipping. It's like the series was written to create shipping wars. There are no less than three characters with three canon pairings for each of them (Daisy doesn't count, because no one likes her and all shippings involving her have died by now).
- Old Names vs New Names. Do you think the old names are too plain? Do you think the new ones are too stupid? Or do you just not care?
- Then there's the argument over whether discriminating against kittypets counts as racism.
- The Star Wars Expanded Universe has a Broken Base with the Jedi vs. The Mandalorian conflict. This is mostly a result of Karen Traviss' writing where she portrays the Jedi Knighthood as hopelessly corrupted by their service to the Old Republic and the Mandalorians as a Proud Warrior Race group of salt of the Earth types. Given the Mandalorians are traditionally AntiHeroes and villains while the Jedi Knights are Lawful Good paladins, this has resulted in a lot of venom tossed around by both sides.
Live Action TV
- Okay, here are the many flavors of civil war within 24 fandom
- Jack Bauer is a card-carrying Complete Monster vs. Jack Bauer is the 13th Disciple of Christ vs. Jack Bauer, Tortured Soul Who Saves The World At The Expense Of Any Sort of Hope For a Normal Life.
- President Palmer was unrealistic vs. President Palmer was the second best character in the show vs. the show jumping when President Palmer was written out and killed off.
- The Real Time gimmick is played out vs. The Real Time Format is a stroke of undiluted genius.
- Fans are also split about which season is the best, with seasons two and five leading to massive nerd arguments over whcih season was the best.
- Well now, that's an easy one. Season 2 is clearly the epitome of American television while the silliness in Season 5 softens the brain just watching it.
- Do not even start on female characters in the show. Not one single female character elicits a moderate reaction, they are either Amazon goddesses or straight bitches. No middle. Not ever.
- Lost. See details of the criticism here. But then again this hardly scratches the surface in some people's opinion, as there are the people who will attack the detractors with unparalleled zeal. Not to mention what season did the show go off the rail, those who think the writers are making it all up as they go along, and of course those who love the Kate/Sawyer/Jack love triangle and those who HATE it and consider it to be the bane of the show.
- The X Files, especially after season 4 or 5.
- Season 4 or 5?!?!, don't you mean season 2 or 3?!
- The X-Files fandom split several times. Some people think the first 3 seasons are the only ones worth watching, some people think the good days ended after they moved from Vancouver to LA after season 5, some people think Duchovny's departure was what did it. The wank got uglier every time.
- There were also groups of fans who felt that the stand alone monster of the week episodes were much more enjoyable than the convoluted UFO mythology.
- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, around season 6. There's also a sizable contingent who thinks Buffy should've never left high school.
- Then there's the Buffy/Angel fans vs. the Buffy/Spike fans, and even a few loons who are Buffy/Riley fans.
- ...and the people who didn't like Tara hooking up with Willow (Suddenly Sexuality, Bi The Way, or plain ol' character development?). Or Tara dying in a gut-wrenching, not to mention highly improbable, manner and Willow delving into complete evil madness over it, some of whom don't even consider anything past that episode canon anymore, and make the oft-overused (and possibly malaproped) term "rabid fan" actually make perfect logical sense.
- And then there's the whole Satsu thing in the Season Eight comics and... actually, you know what? Let's just say Buffy has a tendency to cause this every single arc, and often multiple times in the same arc, frequently with character deaths and/or pairings, and be done with it. How the fandom hasn't completely imploded by now, I have no idea.
- Joss hits us because he loves us.
- Loves to piss us off... and I love him for that.
- And then there's the rare Buffy fan who actually thinks that the Executive Meddling that changed the movie was an improvement and actually made for a better story than the series.
- All of the above are proof of just how much Fan Dumb the show managed to attract over the years.
- Mystery Science Theater 3000: Joel vs. Mike. But remember, it's just a show. We should really just relax.
- Roswell: During seasons two and three, members of the fanbase increasingly grew divided between those who had preferred the original style (criticized by opponents as too soapy or melodramatic) versus those who preferred the newer style (criticized by opponents as too dark or convoluted).
- Smallville have those fans who want Lana to be with Clark, and those who want to see Lana eviscerated, mutilated, and ground to bits.
- To some degree the latter group of fans have actually gotten their wish.
- There's a separate group who finds amusement in this, pointing out that it doesn't matter since Clark will just end up with Lois in the end.
- Well to be fair, that only occured in the comics after about four decades of Clark oscillating back and forth between the two. Up until the end of the Silver Age I think.
- In recent seasons the Lana division has worn off in favor of a vocal group of fans who still believe Chloe is the real Lois, and want to see a Chlark happily ever after.
- Then there are some Chlarkans who actually think that even Clark isn't good enough for Chloe anymore, and that the only reason they should get together is because anyone else is 'less' deserving. Or that he could be a part of her superpowered harem.
- A lot of fans think the show is just tired and stale now, while some others think the show has gotten better.
- As is probably inevitable among fans of a very Long Runner with a constant turnover of creators and wide variations in style from season to season, Doctor Who fandom is not so much Broken as splintered into a whole pile of glittering but sharp-edged pieces. Some debates have been running for decades but stil raise passions. The Third Doctor, charmingly anti-establishment gentleman hero or arrogant, bigoted, militaristic tool of the Man? Season 17, sparklingly intelligent highpoint of the show as comedy or unfunny, underwritten, overeducated tosh made with contempt for anyone who wasn't at Cambridge with Douglas Adams? John Nathan-Turner, producer who did his best under difficult circumstances or the Devil Incarnate Himself? Colin Baker, crap performance or good performance in crap scripts? Worst Season Ever, 22, 23, or 24? Seasons 25-6, So Bad Its Horrible final nail in the show's coffin or brilliant comeback Screwed By The Network? The 1989-2005 spin-off novels, superb, thoughtfully Darker And Edgier exploration of the full potential of the universe and characters for grown-ups, or dull, pretentious, adolescently Darker And Edgier, Continuity Lockout-prone Wangst-fest? Do any of the non-TV spin-offs count as canon at all?
- And the current generation's ongoing flamewar-prone debates: Rose fans versus Martha fans. And more broadly, everybody else versus the faction of Rose fans who think that her relationship with the Doctor is the single most important plot in the series, and that the forty-odd years of canon before 2005 is just a disposable prologue, and everything after 2006 just time-wasting until the happy ending. The holy wars between those who dislike Russell T Davies' writing and those who like it; between those who believe Russell T Davies is ruining the show and those who point out that without him there wouldn't be a show; and between those who think that RTD puts too much "gayness" in the show and those who think the former are a bunch of homophobes. The furious debates between those who think Steven Moffat will ruin the show forever and those who think he's the Second Coming of [insert favourite creator here] who will redeem it from RTD.
- Needless to say, contributing to an online Who fandom venue you aren't familiar with and expecting not to cause Internet Backdraft within thirty minutes is about as sensible as sitting down for a quiet drink with The Pesci and expecting to walk away without bloody violence.
- Power Rangers: Generally, the fanbase divides itself into a four-tier format: people either like all seasons, don't like anything after Dino Thunder (season 12), don't like anything after Time Force (season 9), or don't like anything after In Space (season 6). Occasionally, you will encounter holdouts who think it all sucks in comparison to the glory that is Tommy Oliver.
- Only because he was the best power ranger ever.
- Then there's the group that contest that Super Sentai is vastly superior and that the mere act of creating an American version of the show is both racist and disrespectful to the source material. (Let's not mention that a subtitled version of Super Sentai would never achieve mass commerical success in the West and that most of the people in this camp found out about Super Sentai through- you guessed it- Power Rangers.)
- And while we're on the subject of Toku: the group that believes Kamen Rider is becoming a Merchandise Driven Blue Bishonen Ghetto and a one-man version of Super Sentai (with- god forbid- Combining Mecha) versus the group that enjoys the newer series for their entertainment value and believes that the shift in style is just an effect of a naturally-changing culture. Versus the group that hates all New Generation Kamen Rider series and believes that the Old Generation stuff is vastly superior in every single way.
- In the Supernatural fandom, there are battles between the Dean!Girls and Sam!Girls with the Bi!Bro fans getting completely sick of it because Dean can't live without Sam and vice versa, not to mention that the fandom is also divided between wanting more of the arc or more of a Season One/ Monster Of The Week feel.
- With the new developments of Season Four, the fandom has been broken into three parts. Some religous fans are offended by the possibility of not-so-good angels, some atheists are offended that God has been brought into it while others are saying that this has finally made the mytharc interesting.
- Metamorphosis spawned a Broken Base in a matter of days. The Deanfen are defending Dean's actions to the death and are spitting molten hate at Sam, the Samfen are bending over backwards to defend Sam and are wanting Dean to be punished, there are others who are hating the writer for her apparent OOC characterizations and then there is the sane minority who think that both Sam and Dean are on a whole new level of fucked up and while it doesn't excuse their behaviour, it certainly explains it.
- Stargate SG-1 is complicated, everyone puts their own marker for exactly where it went wrong somewhere different if they even believe it did. There are a few key events that tend to mark the large general shifts in the show dividing it into three compartments. Basically you have the age of Apophis making up the first few seasons, then the post Apophis period (the start of which is signified by his actual death in the prime timeline) which is known most for Anubis and everything related and finally the Ori arc which starts in season nine and sees the introduction of an entirely new set of badguys (the old ones now thoroughly defeated) and quite a few changes to the regular cast.
- Star Trek Deep Space Nine: fans kind of split off from the rest of Star Trek fandom rather more violently than proponents of other series', but there's also the small base who think anything after the original three seasons of the original Star Trek is crap. (Hey, even season three of TOS is dicey.)
- And now a schism is opening between people who are willing to give JJ Abrams' interpretation in the upcoming movie a chance, and others who have been adamant that anything less than slavish devotion to the original series is automatic grounds for DisContinuity.
- Not necessarily just TOS, arguably more people ignore anything after the end of either Voyager or Enterprise You get the same thing with the movies at various points, often after First Contact or Nemesis. A few fans ignore everything made after Gene Roddenberry died (a decent amount of The Next Generation plus everything after it).
- Fan Dumb has gone all the way to Fan Brain Dead with these guys. Eventually they aren't even going to have enough source material to have a fandom.
- Also: Kirk vs. Picard (see the page quote), were Voyager and Enterprise any good, some or all of the various movies etc...
- The Enterprise episode Regeneration is especially divisive. Some thinking it' one of the best episodes ever, while dissenters....well don't.
- Battlestar Galactica, old show vs. new, anyone?
- Other points of contention for the new version were the Jitter Cam, Starbucks being a girl, recasting Baltar as an Handsome Lech Anti Hero, the new character of Laura Roslin (who pretty much dominated most of the series), the fact that the writers were making it up as they went along DESPITE putting at the start of just about every episode during seasons one through three that "THEY HAVE A PLAN". and an ending where just about all of the MIA human Cylons turned out to be members of the main cast and the controversial decision to end the show with the reveal that God was manipulating everyone to make the Cylons and humans stop fighting.
- It looks like Caprica is already starting this among fans. Some going so far as calling it Dallas meets Battlestar Galactica (pejorativly of course).
- Are the BioCylons REAL cylons, or uppity Replicants who overthrew the REAL cylons.
- The series finale of the new Battlestar Galactica, especially the last hour, and especially the last 5 minutes
- More/less battles, more/less character focus, more/less about relationships, more/less mythology.
- Greys Anatomy fans (even the cast and crew for that matter) are split over the departure of Isiah Washington, This has made many vicious Flame Wars. Some arguments going to places they don't need to go. Essentially becoming flame bait for both homophobic AND racist Jerk Asses.
- The Heroes fandom seems to be suffering from this - many fans are very loud about the fact that they preferred the season one style/format over seasons two and three.
- Much like with Mary in Silent Hill 2 it seems the fans can't decide whether the show they loved has been dead for three years, a few months or whether it still lives on.
- Due South, with the legendary Ray Wars.
- Where to start in Eastenders? Example: the ongoing Danielle/Ronnie storyline, half of the fans of the storyline want her to get in some mother/daughter bondig with Ronnie, and the other half want her to die already so ronnie can get on with the Patricide of her cruel/manipulative,lying,deceitful dad, Archie.
- Babylon Five: Susan Ivanova's relationship with Talia Winters: Bi The Way or If Its You Its Okay? (That is, unless you stick to the idea that they didn't do anything but literally sleep together.)
- Furthermore, Sinclair or Sheridan? Was Season 5 any good at all, or just a giant pile of suck? Was Crusade a good show killed too soon by a network, or did it bite?
- Yell that any of the four ships surrounding Elizabeth, Sam, Lucky, and Jason are the best in a General Hospital forum, then close the door and cover your ears. This one's so bad that both Rebecca Herbst and Kelly Monaco have a healthy dose of real-world hate.
- Blues Clues has the whole Joe vs Steve debate.
- Whose Line Is It Anyway: British version vs. American version. Usually the debate revolves around whether or not Ryan, Colin, and Wayne deserved to be on every episode or whether the lineup should be mixed around more, or who is the better host (this troper has yet to find someone who likes both Clive AND Drew). But fans will find ANYTHING to argue about, so the Britline vs. Drew's Line debates tend to get increasingly ridiculous—from whether or not (insert cast member here) is either a comedic genius or horrendously overrated, to which country's audience is better (either the British audience is too quiet or the American audience is too loud), to which musician is better at playing the Hoedown music, to which set is better, to which version has better fashion sense. (This troper has met someone who refuses to watch the early Britline episodes because she can't stand the late 80s/early 90s clothing & semi-formal suits everyone's wearing in them.)
- Refuses to watch because of the suits? The only reason this troper watches reruns of Britline from the 80s is to fuel his bicuriosity for Josie Lawrence in a suit.
- This British troper has to say that the American version edges it, both are excellent but Drew Carey's stewardship seems to manage to get them through a lot more games without much skimping, he's a bit less rigid with the format and having most of the line-up reoccur allows some of the best running gags and in jokes ever seen. However, yes, the American audience are RIDICULOUSLY noisy, it's almost uncouth.
- Roseanne during it's last season
- The Cosby Show around the last 2 seasons.
- A Different World, after season 1, and wether or not the latter seasons are better than season 1. and of course the shipping wars of Denise and Dewayne, VS. Dewayne and Whitley.
- M*A*S*H, any-one? D'you prefer the ealier seasons, before Alan Alda took over behind the camera and it became preachy instead of funny, or the later seasons, where the show realised the wacky comedy didn't fit too well, and became deep instead of dissonant?
Music
- Almost any band who loses a member will cause fanwank over whether they got worse or not with the change.
- TupacShakur fans usually fight over which album showcased the real Tupac. The albums in question are "Me Against the World" VS. "All Eyez on Me". Proponents of the first claim that the album is better than AEOM because of its depth and dark, introspective approach, while claiming that AEOM is just a typical mainstream rap album people jumped on the bandwagon for.
- Metallica, because they cut their hair!
- More seriously, Ride the Lightning VS. Master of Puppets can also cause wars.
- There is also the argument of whether the Black Album was the first sell out album or Load was.
- Subverted though with "One", which was Metallica's very first music video; though the band swore they would never make music videos during the mid-80s, the High Octane Nightmare Fuel music video for "One" is widely loved by the fan's fans and was the only song from "...And Justice For All" that ended up becoming a mainstay in the band's live shows.
- Black Flag is perhaps the most polarizing example of a broken base for a punk band. First, there are camps of fans that prefer either the pre-1984 Flag (consisting of raw fast-paced punk) or the 1984-1986 Flag (which consisted of slow, repetitive avant-garde experiments in an attempt to push the band's sound forward). Then, there are fans divided by the singer (either Keith Morris, Dez Cadena, Ron Reyes {who was involuntarily credited by the band as "Chavo Pederast"}, and Henry Rollins)
- The rap group Bone Thugs N Harmony has such a varied and diverse style that they ended up creating a varied and diverse fanbase. This diverse fan base always ends up in heated flame wars over what direction the group should take musically. The debates (or arguments) range from style, subject matter and whether or not to have guest features. The group even has a problem maintaining the small but loyal Broken Base that they do have, due to the fact there are more fans of certain individual members than the actual group as a whole. There's also a very contentious debate reguarding what caused the group to lose popularitty. Some say it's because their music changed. While others say it's because of changing trends in the Hip-Hop industry, and the music industry over all. Quite a few say all of the above.
- Then there's the departure of a certain member... whom has since returned. But the embittered division is still there. What added to the division is the fact that this also put more fuel to the fire because of the reason why he was ousted and the fact the group isn't quite the same without him. Though others would say he was on the decline due to his substance abuse issues,and his unprofessionalism when it comes to not showing up for video shoots and concerts. so his absence isn't really missed.
- The Art Of War album by far... (and to a lesser existent the Resurrection album)
- Pantera, especially when it comes to critics of Phil Anselmo and his supporters. The murder of Dimebag Darrell, the well-loved guitarist of the band at the hands of a fan of Anselmo, has made the situation explosivly hostile.
- Hip-Hop is divided between pure hip-hop fans vs hardcore/gangsta rap fans vs fans of overtly mainstream popish "bling bling" styled "glam-rap". But to simplify it,It generally boils down to divisions mainly between the normally “underground/gutter/gangsta/anti-establishment/ grimy” and “conscious” hip hop heads and the fans of artists that rhymed about material wealth, capitalism and the like. Don't even get started on the regionalism.
- Controversially the root, heart, and soul of the hip-hop fan division appears to also have subtle shades of classicism in addition to regionalism. As The 2 aforementioned sub-genre's appeal to rap fans of 2 very different socio-economic backgrounds (Albeit probably unintentionally). The rap music that deal with "issues" tend to appeal to middle and lower income blue collar fans, While The glamorous club oriented stuff appeals to upper middle class suburban fans. Even the hardcore rap music that has crime tales involving luxurious cars and houses tend to still appeal to the latter group of fans more so than the former group.
- Each of these hip-hop sub-fanbases has its own splinter groups, and even at its simplest level, you actually have a gigantic seething mass of cliques: something along the lines of "Golden Age" purists (fans of late '80s/early '90s rap; typically East Coast with some token Ice Cube or Too $hort appreciation), indie/alternative (or the demi-pejorative "undie") rap fans who lean towards some of the more avant-garde acts like Madlib, POS and El-P, several strata of Southern rap fans pitting coke-rap boosters (often accused of being indie hipster kids) vs. snap/trap/crunk club-rap fans (see: Soulja Boy/"ringtone rap") vs. Dungeon Family (Out Kast/Goodie Mob/et al), West Coast adherents (which can potentially be split into classic g-funk vs. hyphy arguments), the recently-cooled yet still potentially volatile Jay-Z vs. Nas camps... and god help you if you actually like grime or dubstep or electro or some other (usually non-American) genre offshoot.
- Speaking of gangster rap, there's a debate going on about whether or not the genre is dead. Fans of the first wave of gangsta rappers (the anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment, and socio-politically conscious era) felt that it died along time ago. Other, more cynical hip-hop fans (usually alt-rap fans) feels that the current rap is no different from the earlier form, despite the fact that its more materialistic and more pop/club-oriented.
- Another hotley debated issue within the hip-hop community is the issue of whats causing the decline of hip-hop's record sales. Some say it's the decline in quality, some say piracy, And others say both.
- Even They Might Be Giants were hit by this. Fans are divided over whether 1994's "John Henry" was one of their finest albums or their worst, and some refuse to listen to anything recorded since, because they think that the idea of a rock band with musical instruments is an affront. All of the True Fans even went to far as to picket concerts promoting "John Henry".
- The Killers: Did they sell out with Sam's Town? Mature as artists? Try to be the next U2? Simply explore a different style? The world
may will never know.
- The decision of KISS to dress replacement members Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer in the makeup and costumes of founders Peter Criss and Ace Frehley has split the fanbase into those who think it is an insult to the originals and those who think it is a fitting tribute to the band's past legacy. This debate often overlaps into the old debates of makeup vs. non-makeup and "old school" 70s Kiss vs. any post-1979 lineup.
- Genesis have a fanbase generally split into three groups: Those who love the early Peter Gabriel-led albums and decry the later work as sellout pop garbage, those who love the later Phil Collins-led albums and dismiss the earlier work as pretentious nonsense, and those who love both eras and credit Tony Banks as the true mastermind of the band.
- There's at least a fourth camp, who agree that Banks was the mastermind but think he went downhill at some point, with sub-debates over when that was (but certainly it had happened by Invisible Touch). And that's just the beginning. There's also huge debates over the merits of individual albums, especially The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, ...And Then There Were Three and the one album with neither Gabriel nor Collins, ...Calling All Stations.... Not to mention debates, easily confused with but distinct from the Gabriel/Collins/Banks one, between fans of their more pop-oriented versus their more progressive material, and on and on ad nauseum.
- Lots of other progressive or once-progressive bands have these too, including Yes, King Crimson and Rush in particular, but Genesis is probably the best known.
- Whether or not The Misfits are any good without Danzig is one fierce argument.
- Panic! at the Disco's first album was a unique, somewhat interconnected bunch of songs with obtuse but clever titles that bridged dance and rock genres, and had stories to them, with complex, often surreal lyrics. Their second album is somewhat Beatles-esque pop rock with no apparent connection other than style between the songs... and they dropped the exclamation point from their name. Guess what happened to their following? Yep! Instant Division, Just Add Second Album.
- And then they put the exclamation point back, and their lead guitarist and bassist left the band. Oh dear.
- Van Halen. David Lee Roth or Sammy Hagar. 'Nuff said.
- With a small, but vocal, subgroup insisting Gary Cherone never got a fair chance.
- In a similar vein: Black Sabbath. Ozzy Osbourne or Ronnie James Dio. 'Nuff said.
- In another similar vein: Ozzy Osbourne. Randy Rhodes or Zakk Wylde.
- Journey. There is an insane amount of hatred and bad feeling among fans over whether Neal Schon should've gone on without Steve Perry. Simply mentioning Perry's name on any fanboard is guaranteed to start a fight over "old lineup vs new lineup".
- Among fans of Black Metal there is the ongoing war about the definition of the genre. Are Cradle of Filth Black Metal? Are Dimmu Borgir black metal? Immortal? Emperor? Take your pick...
- Though this is common among many sub-genre's of Metal in general... So many bands take elements from multiple genre's, there are often heated arguments over which genre a LOT of bands fit into... Other ones that are especially common though is Gothic Metal vs. Symphonic Metal, and there is often a lot of confusion with Death and Doom, and Folk and Viking.
- The question that is sure to stir up controversy: Who broke up The Beatles?
- Even when the group was active, "Who's your favorite Beatle?" was an active question. After, it tended to cause Flame Wars. There are many people in America who bought Wings albums but will never admit it...
- Linkin Park's Reanimation album, which primarily contained heavily remixed electronic/hip-hop versions of their previous album's songs, caused a major rift in the fanbase trying to decide whether they liked the differing direction of the album or hated it.
- Apart from the remix albums, Linkin Park fans are divided over the the change in Linkin Park's music style from electronica and metal to ballads and soft rock. Some fans claim that the "Old Linkin Park" was the best and that they sold out while others argue that the "New sound" show their evolution as a band.
- They were metal? Don't let the rest of the internet hear you say that.
- Nu metal is (or was) metal, whether people want to admit it or not.
- Not to mention their increasing trend towards becoming U2, with more rock-driven albums than previous and less Shinoda.
- The Coldplay album "Viva La Vida" has split fans as well, between "Yay new sound!" and "Argh they're trying to be the next U2/The Beatles/What have you!"
- Radiohead's Kid A album. Some consider it to be the best album of all time, while some fans were frustrated that they became electronic sounding rather than continuing to work on the guitar that the showed in The Bends and OK Computer. It has been said that part of the success of Parachutes (Coldplay's first album) and Showbiz (Muse's first album) is from the Radiohead fans that felt alienated after the success of Kid A. However, this has caused Radiohead fans to attack Muse and Coldplay, calling them Radiohead ripoffs, despite the fact the three bands sound completely different.
- The first two Oasis albums are universally loved by the fans. The subsequent
four five all sharply divide opinion, including that of the band itself in one case.
- Really? i was under the assumption that everyone hated the last five albums.
- Slipknot Maggots constantly fight over whether Mate.Feed.Kill.Repeat (which was their first album which featured only three of the current nine bandmembers) should be considered a real Slipknot album. Thats before we even get to arguments over Vol. 3 The Subluminal Verses VS. Iowa debates.
- Rage Against the Machine fans are very much devided over the quality of Audioslave and Tom Morello and Zach de la Rocha's solo projects.
- All supergroups seem to suffer from this to some extent. Go to any discussion about Stone Temple Pilots and mention the words "Velvet Revolver". It will get ugly. On the other hand, most Guns 'n' Roses fans seem to have a more universally positive opinion on Velvet Revolver. STP fans are also torn on Scott Weiland's solo project.
- Guns 'n' Roses: Chinese Democracy.
- Nightwish, post Tarja Turunen. Some fans think the new singer and new sound are a different kind of good, others think it completely sucks now.
- It doesn't help that the band hedged their bets by including an instrumental version with the digipack.
- And, on a secondary note, those who found the way she departed from the group distasteful and a thumb-or-other-appendage in the face disrespectful. This is less ship/fandumb and more related to the (to the fans) suddenness however.
- This happened to TLC later in their career. Instead of being solely contemporary R&B and Urban pop their music started to veer into Alt./Pop territory after their first 2 albums.
- And even before their 3D and Fan Mail albums there was the Crazy Sexy Cool vs. Ooooooohhh... On the TLC Tip debates
- Them trying to replace Lefteye deffinety rubbed some of the fans the wrong way. Al though it was clrearly L.A. Reid's doing the blame still fell in their laps though.
- And of course the whole which member is the best arguments. Some saying chili was the REAL singer in the group, while others think Left eye was the only good thing about the group, And other's that thought T-Boz is/was the whole group.
- Pink Floyd, six ways to Sunday. Was Barrett or Waters the true genius? Are the Gilmour-led albums sell-out trash or nearly as good as the classic ones? Is Atom Heart Mother brilliant or complete rubbish (the band themselves mostly think the latter)? Ditto The Final Cut (this one divides even the surviving members of the band, who happen to be all and only the ones who were on it).
- The Final Cut isn't rubbish, but it does illustrate exactly what broke up the band: the liner notes clearly credit it as "[An album] by Roger Waters, performed by Pink Floyd." Ow.
- An odd obscure one... Folk singer Old Man Ludecke and any album/song he has a duet on.
- Three Six Mafia went through this when they went from a 6 member group to a 2 member group.
- They also gradually moved away from their horrorcore Occult themed sound over the years toward a more generic hardcore gangsta rap sound (Their original name was Triple 6 mafia... get it?). And after that moved to a more mainstream hardcore act. These three shifts in style has also really put a wedge in their base.
- Many musical theater types seem to praise Kurt Weill's music mainly as a vehicle for the polemical messages of Bertolt Brecht and similar playwrights, and consider his move away from political themes in his later Broadway musicals as a sell-out to American capitalism.
- Michael Jackson's fanbase went through this long before his legal troubles. Basically the divide centers on Thriller alienating Off The Wall fans.
- En Vogue went through this with their second album. Especially when their rock influenced Free Your Mind song became ubber popular. And predictably the term "Sell Outs" began swerling around.
- Prince & The Revolution vs. Prince & The New Power Generation.
- Mariah Carey fans (and critics) went through this post Music Box album. Either Daydream or Butterfly were her last good album/first bad album. Butterfly gets shit as it was the first album to move towards a more "urban" (or the pejorative "ghetto") sound as well as featured Mariah becoming way more stripper-iffic. However, many fans of Butterfly will argue that at least it still SOUNDED like a Mariah Carey album and that it was the sequel Rainbow that had Mariah going off the rails with constant rap cameos and even more overt stripper-iffic revamp of her image. Either way, she's never been able to bring the bases back together.
- Pink was called a sell out after her first album. She switched from urban R&B to pop/rock on her mizzunderstood album. This seemed to confuse her since she thought she was being more true to her self on the second album. Her first album arguably could be a case of Misaimed Fandom, or Periphery Demographic. Or bad marketing on her record label's part. (likely the latter)
- Kanye West's album 808s and Heartbreak isn't a rap album, unlike his previous works; it's pure electro-pop. The results were... rather polarizing, to say the least, amongst both fans and critics.
- Avril Lavigne's Girlfriend. Does it glorify a certain particularly shallow way of thinking, or does it satirize it? And if it's the latter, then, since Teenage Radio Listeners Are Morons, was it a good idea or a bad one?
- Kelly Clarkson's My December. It's either a dark depressing album that's not radio friendly, or it's a great album because it's dark and not radio friendly.
- The Norwegian AOR band TNT have been victims of this in on-off spans. First when Firefly came out in 1997, the fandom was torn between accepting and abandoning the change. Then, when Tony Harnell, the band's most liked singer, left in 2006, and was replaced by British singer Tony Mills, Fan Dumb erupted like you wouldn't believe, and even more so when The New Territory came out in 2007. It was a largely Love It Or Hate It album, but the new album Atlantis is much better received.
- Kelly Ali was fired from the Sneaker Pimps after the group's first album and replaced with a male vocalist. Fans are split on whether the group is better with or without her.
- Baroque era music performance is split into "period instruments" vs. "modern instruments" proponents.
- Opera vs. Symphony was a popular heated topic in the 1800s.
- Verdi opera (Italian) vs. Wagner opera (German) was a further division of this debate, and continues to this day.
- Opera has the "traditional production" vs. "Eurotrash production/anything-goes-in-art" debate.
- No Doubt's Rock Steady album, Most critics loved it. But the hardcore fans either had mixed feeling, or out right despised it. While other fans think it was the best ND album in years.
- Destiny's Child after the other 2 original members was unceramoniously booted. Not to mention the group of fans who thought they were trying too hard to cross over. There is also a group of fans that felt Kelly Rowland was clearly the better singer whom had to play second fiddle to Beyonce Knowles, Who they thought had a special "advantage"
- This recently happened to the British indie band The Horrors. The songs on their first album and their singles were fast, short bursts of goth-influenced garage punk often not lasting more than two minutes. Then in early 2009 came the video for "Sea Within A Sea", the first single from their second album. It was slower, more atmospheric and Joy Division-sounding and most troubling to fans, eight minutes long. Some fans cried bloody murder. Other fans welcomed the new sound with open arms and praised their new tighter sound. Needless to say, any forum discussing the band has degraded down to two dozen active flame wars about the subject between the two sides.
- Dream Theater. Old music (Images and Words, Awake) vs new music (Train of Thought, Systematic Chaos''), Kevin Moore vs. Derek Sherinan vs. Jordan Rudess, too much keyboard vs. not enough keyboard, music is too heavy vs. music is too pop-like, who's the best lyricist?, songs are too long, songs are too short...just about anything, really.
- It really doesn't help that Dream Theater is pure Love It Or Hate It material to begin with.
- Country music, definitely. The large majority of the arguments that rage within country music fandom can be encapsulated in the battle between traditional and contemporary. Many arguments have been fought over this, with each side's adherents disliking the other.
- My Chemical Romance. Good God, where do I begin with My Chemical Romance?
- Kings of Leon Latest Album.
- Igor Stravinsky is perhaps the all-time example of a composer with a fractured, factionalized fanbase. After making his initial fame by applying impressionist harmonies to Slavic melody and rhythm with such works as "The Firebird" and "Petrushka", Stravinsky's brutal, primitivist ballet "The Rite of Spring" occasioned a riot at its premiere in Paris in 1913 as audience members who hated the work clashed with others who found it one of the most exciting things they'd ever heard. Unfortunately for fans of the "Rite", Stravinsky would compose only a few more works in this vein before turning to a cooler, more controlled and intellectual neoclassical style in the 1920's. The fans of the neoclassical Stravinsky held him up as a proponent of tonality in opposition to the atonal style of Arnold Schoenberg, Stravinsky's contemporary and rival best known for his invention of dodecaphonic (or "twelve-tone") music. After Schoenberg's death in 1951, Stravinsky proceeded to confound his neoclassical fans by turning to Schoenbergian dodecaphony himself.
- No love (or hate) for Alice in Chains yet? The flamewars on youtube over Layne's death never die down, and he died seven years ago. Not to even mention William Duvall; entire cities have been warmed by the flames stemming from just one claim that he's better than Layne. And as though this isn't enough, they're set to release a new album, which looks to be just as debated as Chinese Democracy.
- R.E.M. People can go on for hours over whether Automatic for the People is a mature, deep, emotional masterpiece or overproduced pop schlock, a glorified Michael Stipe solo record that showcases the band as a shadow for their former selves. Just say the words "Everybody Hurts" and watch the fun begin. The far less famous Up can inspire similar reactions.
- Check out the comments on any Queens Of The Stone Age video, and prepare to be assaulted by back and forth on "They suck after Nick left", countered by "They would suck if they still had a wife-beater and a drunk in their band." All this ignores, of course, the fact that Josh Homme has written all the music from the get-go, and has recorded just about every track in the studio, including most of the bass work in the first album, and a lot of it in the second.
- Anything Ice Cube did after The Predator (Or Lethal Injection depending on who you ask) tends to divide fans. Lethal Injection specifically is polarizing. it was a commercial hit, however it was heavily criticized for what many saw as Cube's pandering to a crossover audience, and toning down the hardcore socio-political content found on his earlier efforts. Others saw this as unfair, as they thought it was still vintage gritty Cube but with G-funk productions. The albums standing has increased over time though once people realizedf that it wasn't a huge departure as fisrt thought..
- Like wise with poor Nas. After Illmatic virtually every album he made afterwards polarized his base. Stillmatic was able to please most of the base....but not really.
- Janet Jackson's Velvet Rope album. critics loved it, but fans was split. There's also the debate on whether or not her Janet. album is a worthy successor to Rhythm Nation. Others think fans need to suck it up and accept she changed with the times, and that they should let the 80's go.
- 80's Janet vs. 90's Janet vs. 00's Janet
- Madonna fans tend to be divided over Erotica, which many consider to be a great album that was unfairly bashed due to the title track and the Hype Backlash over Madonna in the early 1990s or a really crappy album with one good song (Rain). Also at debate, whether Madonna is better at making dance music or ballads and songs about important social messages.
- ACDC fans are divided over which of AC/DC's two lead singers, Bon Scott or Brian Johnson, is better. The one thing that they are unified on is that Back in Black is an AWESOME ALBUM.
- David Bowie. Pretty much ANY time he's shifted styles a split in fandom occurs on whether it's worth sticking around. Most fans contend that the jump off occured after Scary Monsters. Others say Diamond Dogs. Then there is "Let's Dance", his poppiest album that was recorded SPECIFICALLY to appeal to casual fans, which is either great or really lame.
- Tori Amos' fanbase started to slowly divide with To Venus and Back, when the much hyped B-Side album was dropped for new material, done mainly so Tori could advance one step closer to get out of her contract with Atlantic Records, after being told point blank by the label that they weren't going to promote her work anymore. Some consider TVAB to be Tori's last good album, as her cover album (again done to move her closer to completing her contract) Strange Little Girls was widely panned. Scarlet's Walk was better received but The Beekeeper came out and broke the base clear down the middle. How badly was it broken? You had people joking that Tori had gone soft and that the only way that Tori would be able to make a new good album would be if something bad happened to her family, since most of what made the early Tori albums so popular was the anger Tori had towards Christianity, being raped, her ex-boyfriend, having a miscarriage, etc that drove her early albums. Tori broke her base again with American Doll Posse. One half thought that it was her best album in years, while the other half thought it was crap. Abnormally Attracted to Sin had similar effects. It wasn't until Tori released a solstice album (Midwinter Graces) that satisfied mostly everyone in her fanbase (so far).
- Fans of The Mountain Goats are often divided over whether the band's newer, more polished output is an improvement on the earlier boombox recordings or not.
Other
Sports
- Sports message boards are rife with this kind of strife, even setting aside the classic, easily mockable (Yankees Suck!/Red Sox suck!) back-and-forths between fanbases. Within a fandom there is almost always a Broken Base. Best case scenario, fans of a team will simply disagree on the quality of a given transaction. Over a long enough time, however, fans who frequently criticize management are usually accused of disloyalty or outright troll status, while those who frequently defend management are considered irrational fanboys incapable of independent thought. And that's without mentioning the cults of personality that tend to develop around certain players; if the two players should happen to compete for playing time with each other, the Flame Wars can get quite messy. Serious Business, indeed.
- Michael Vick fans vs. Fans of the new white quarter back.
- More like Michael Vick fans vs. fans of anyone who isn't Michael Vick. This Atlanta-based troper remembers an incident where Vick's family was escorted out of a Falcons game after they started screaming for teammate Chris Chandler's violent injury and/or death just so their Mikey could play.
- And now that Vick's officially back in the NFL (after his stint in federal prison for running a dogfighting ring) - it's now the "He's paid his debt. Leave him be" crowd vs. the "That dogkiller should be a pariah" crowd.
- Stephan Marbury, he's either a selfish Jerk Ass who destroyed the knicks organization, or a guy who was vindictively, blackballed and railroaded because of his testimony at a sexual harassment case that was leveled at the knicks organization (which damaged their case Or So I Heard...). Or all of the above..
- Billy Bean and his "Moneyball" system either does what nobody else thought to do to - make a great baseball team on a shoestring budget, or he's sucking the soul out of the sport. (For the uninitiated, he uses spreadsheets and such to determine from past statistics who the best players are, and he rejects some flashy strategies like stealing in favor of whatever has the highest statistical probability of getting a run.)
- Go ask NHL fans how teams in warm weather cities are doing, and prepare to duck from the flames. On one side are fans who point to Dallas, Carolina, San Jose and Anaheim as proof that the sport can succeed in places without snow; on the other are the fans who point to Florida, Atlanta and Phoenix as proof that the sport doesn't work in such areas, with Nashville and Tampa used by both sides to prove their point. Don't even try touching the debate about whether the league should be on ESPN or Versus, either...
- College football's BCS. Is it really better than what there was before? What teams should be involved in a given year? Do teams from outside the power conferences have a fair chance? And the big one: Should the whole thing just be blown up and replaced with a playoff?
Food and Cooking
- Five star restaurants vs. mom and pop restaurants and buffets
- In the BBQ community there's a divide over tomato based BBQ sauce or vinegar based.
- I'd have thought the split would be Beef Vs. Pork.
- Coal or Propane?
- Chili wars make even the BBQ battles look tame. The big one is over whether beans are allowed or not. Then there's ground meat vs. chopped meat, red vs. green, soupy vs. thick, and how spicy is too spicy?
- Stoves: Electric or Gas?
- Go to a board for fans of cheese products and say that you like Velveeta, hell just mention the name Velveeta. I DARE YOU!!
- Pizza: New York style or Chicago style?
- How to take care of cast iron cookware. Seriously, there's one school that holds you wipe out the residue when you're done cooking in it, and otherwise leave it alone. Soapy water should never touch it, and scrubbies are right out. Another school of thought is "wash it out quickly then heat it and oil it." If something scorches on, light scrubbing is acceptable.
Miscellaneous Other
Professional Wrestling
- Vince Russo: Genius or Twatwaffle? A lone member of the former group can start a flamewar of epic proportions on any given Smark forum.
- Vince McMahon: he's either the best thing to happen to the industry, or the worst.
- Storyline-driven shows or in-ring action-driven shows (or, as they're referred to in the fanbase, "sports entertainment" vs. "pure wrestling"). There are compelling, valid arguments to be made for both sides. And each and every one of them will be contested no matter what.
- WWE's individual brands aren't immune to this, with fans arguing back and forth about whether Raw or SmackDown! is the superior show (with some even trying to make a case for ECW).
- Wanna start a flamewar on a smark forum? Just post five words: "I'm a John Cena fan." Then sit back and enjoy the fun.
- Bret Hart: Those who believe he's a justifiably angry former star used and abused by the industry vs. those who think he's an overrated bitter has-been who can't accept that his glory days are long past.
Close Professional Wrestling
Tabletop Games
- Tabletop games as a whole are divided into the Roleplaying/Roll-Playing factions, those who believe character development and interaction is the main feature of the game, and those who focus on building the best character on-paper. And then there's those who try to do both.
- I'd argue that the real break is between people who think this problem exists (that you can't optimise your character without abandoning role-playing, and vice versa) and those who disagree.
- Optimizing a character effectively turns it into a Mary Sue. I don't think I need to explain why that makes for bad characters and stories.
- That's one line of thought. The other is, it isn't how powerful or weak the character is mechanically, but how it's played in the game. A mechanically weak character can steal the spotlight, and a mechanically strong one can seem nothing more than a quiet tool for clearing a path to the next encounter.
- The base of Traveller couldn't be any more broken if you fired a meson gun at it. First we had the Rebellion, in which the Imperium fell into civil war. Everyone either loved or hated this. Then came the New Era, 70 or so years after the "virus" (actually a race of Omnicidal Maniac artificial intelligences that hijack any computer in their vicinity by means unexplained, with deadly consequences) did a number on civilisation. Everyone either loved or hated this. The next edition was plunged into So Bad Its Horrible territory by its lousy editing and the fact that the new publisher didn't really care about it. Then came a lot more stuff. It's amazing that you can find enough Traveller fans who agree with each other to make a gaming group.
- Magic The Gathering. Almost any semi-significant change made to the game is sure to provoke both sharp criticism from some players while simultaneously receiving major accolades from others. Recent examples:
- The new card frame introduced with Mirrodin. Basically split the fanbase between "It doesn't look like traditional fantasy anymore!" and "It's cleaner and easier to read when playing!". (There was also an "It's too easy to confuse artifact and white cards now!" for a while, but that was addressed two sets later by giving artifact card frames a darker shade of grey.)
- The Time Spiral block, which reprinted dozens of old and powerful cards, introduced or brought back more card abilities than any before, and experimented with shifting abilities between colors to an unheard-of degree.
- The storyline-related decision to kill off and/or depower the godlike planeswalkers around whom most plots center, which has had numerous fans of the books shouting bloody murder. Literally.
- Well, to be fair, according to the manual the players are supposed to be planeswalkers engaging in a duel...
- And who can forget the lovely shenanigans that happened (and are still happening) when Wizards decided to add a new rarity? And change the boosters? And decrease set size? Simultaneously?
- The set Coldsnap was introduced as the "lost third set in the Ice Age block" that had been unearthed and would be sent to development for release in an article on the Wizards website. The article was either a funny joke or a malicious lie, depending on who you ask. No middle ground.
- And then the set was actually released as part of the Ice Age block.
- The Shards Of Alara Block introduced colored artifacts, essentially redefining what an artifact card is. This did not go over well.
- What in the world are all of you talking about? I still can't get past this newfangled "stack" business. Give me back my interrupts! They made perfect sense. And why in the world did they get rid of the "bury" effect? If you were too stupid to know the difference between "bury" and "destroy" you shouldn't be playing games endorsed by mensa!
- Wizards just announced a massive change to the combat rules. Oh shi-
- Trap cards? There goes the neighbourhood...
- This has happened numerous times with Dungeons And Dragons. First there was the change from 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition, then from 3.0 to 3.5, and now massive flame wars raging over the merits of the new 4th Edition of the game vs. 3rd/3.5. Like the previous 3.0 to 3.5 edition change, 4e replaces a thriving 3.5 fanbase. Further, fans are angry about the fact that 4th Edition is no longer operates under an open license. On top of this, it has further setting shifts which, as always, anger the usual suspects.
- Perhaps one of the biggest gripes about 4th Edition is that it plays too much like an MMO, an argument that fails to take into account the fact that almost every fantasy MMO in existence was itself inspired by D&D.
- That's generally taken into account. The people against 4th edition usually point out that pen and paper should offer options an MMO cannot.
- That's not really a valid point, since there's a few decades of influence in between. If we started with "Dungeons and Dragons" at the beginning, by the time of MM Os we've got "Dungeons and Dragons Ultima Super Mario Final Fantasy Wizardry Diablo etc. Purple Monkey Dishwasher". It's kind of like saying Grand Theft Auto is based on Pong.
- And let's not forget the vitriol over the Psionics debate, or the related war between those who find fault with Vancian casting in general and Linear Warriors Quadratic Wizards and those who don't believe the phenomenon exists.
- Things get even worse when you talk about individual campaign settings:
- Forgotten Realms fans are violently divided over the the "100 years later..." Time Skip.
- To elaborate, the Time Skip involved killing off a whole bunch of gods via Idiot Plot, then wiped out most arcane spellcasters as a result of that Idiot Plot. The argument isn't that the new setting is bad, just that it shouldn't have been dropped on a thriving existing setting.
- Eberron fans get into bloody wars over whether the setting should be allowed to move forward in time, and whether or not anything not written by Keith Baker "counts."
- Greyhawk fans are mostly super pissed that their setting never got a real book for Third Edition (and was dropped as the generic setting for Fourth). Anyone who's not super pissed is potentially inleague with the enemy.
- Planescape fans are divided over whether the Fourth Edition cosmology is boring and yet another slap in the face by Wizards Of The Coast, or worth looking at and trying to use for a "real" Planescape game.
- Luckily, these people can always buy the 4e Manual of the Planes (which brings it back from the dead, albeit in brain-in-a-jar form).
- Meanwhile, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, and Dragonlance fans are still sitting in the dark arguing over who turned out the lights.
- Of course, since Dark Sun is going to be re-released for 4E, fans of that setting are quietly arming their flamethrowers and stocking up on napalm.
- Fans of Ravenloft have a minor point of contention as to whether their line of products was better with Wot C producing it or if the 3rd edition White Wolf sourcebooks were more worthwhile. Most put any disagreements aside with the simple thankfulness that it was reprinted at all. The Kargatane, who have published several internet supplements for the setting and whose members were leaders of the Ravenloft online community who could have swayed the issue one way or the other, were disbanded in October 2003, though several alumni then went on to write many of the White Wolf releases.
- Any time a new codex or edition of the Warhammer 40000 rules is released, expect the fans to draw chainsword and holy bolter over it.
- This troper has actually theorised that the reason that said codex updates take years is so that once they are released, the fans are too happy to simply have a playable army again to complain. You can see what happens otherwise with the new Space Marine codex.
- Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is a particularly bad example of this. The long period off the shelves led to a lot of fan-developed material, and since the second edition was printed no-one can agree on anything whatsoever. For a long time the official forum for the new edition was populated almost entirely by old v1 players who complained about every change to their beloved game and would flame newbies who dared to express any v2 preferences off the forum.
- Palladium's Rifts RPG fanbase is split between whether the Coalition States should have won the Tolkeen War, or if it was just a cop-out by the writers. This has resulted in a three way split between the players: PA-101 to Pre-Tolkeen era, Tolkeen War with whatever spin the GM decides to use, or Post-Tolkeen War (PA 109) with no mention of the war at all. Don't even get into which cyberknight was better, the original or the post-Tolkeen version.
- Legend Of The Five Rings has a variant, being divided between the RPG and CCG fans (though a sizable number play both). The RPG players have started to get extremely tired of the metaplot, which is conversely one of the big draws of the CCG: the ability to affect the storyline of the setting. There's surprisingly little actual rancor between the two groups, since both sides are well aware that the game is made for the CCG players first and foremost, but that doesn't stop the RPG fans from repeatedly bitching about the metaplot on RPG-focused forums (and often dropping most of it straight into Dis Continuity).
- Battletech has the problem in spades, due to the leaps in continuity in the franchise, with each leap adding on new technology and new mythos and inevitably alieniating at least some portion of the fanbase.
- This usually happens with every game, and it would probably be faster to list exceptions to the rule. The Fudge to Fate transition, which many people didn't do was probably one of the smoothest in the history of Tabletop Games, to the point where it could be considered a subversion.
Video Games
- Oh boy, the Total War franchise. Although all the fans agree that the battles have consistently got better and better, the changes to the turn based strategy portion of the game have caused all amounts of Flame. The first main group are those who feel Shogun and Medieval are by far the best, and in their eyes Rome spoilt it all by fixing something they thought wasn't broken by changing the simple Risk style strategy map into something that was more Civilisation in feel and had far too much tedious micromanagement. Then on the opposite side are those who think Rome and Medieval 2 are the pinnacle of strategy gaming. And then there's that old, dying core who to them it's Shogun and nothing else. Of course, the time period that tickles your fancy the most is a major factor. Empire has only recently been released and the jury is out.
- To elaborate on Empire's status within the fandom...one half praises the game for finally making guns effective in battle and the polish in graphics. The other rips the game apart for supposedly being buggy and the naval battles' clunkiness. The new patch has fixed the former pretty much.
- The Europa Universalis fandom tends to be a bit... testy over #3. Some like the more free-form approach and lack of "strait-jacketing" historical events. Others think that removed the very thing that made the games different. Most agree that #3 is still a decent game (at least after two expansions)
- There are two fanbases of the long-running Need For Speed series: one that preferred the franchise when the focus was on exotic cars, the other that prefers the focus on sport compact tuner cars.
- More accuratly, the fanbases are: those who preferred pre-underground semi-realistic down to earth entries (most notably Porsche Unleashed fans) and those who preffered Underground's and beyond arcade style gameplay.
- Tomb Raider, oh dear God, Tomb Raider. There are the purists who refuse to play any games past Tomb Raider III, the Core Design lovers who will point out the tiniest flaws in Crystal Dynamics' games and say that they "can't match the style of the classic TRs", even though Core's six games were all wildly different in style and Crystal's games are more like the original than most of Core's later games. Then there are the Crystal Dynamics fans. Some don't complain and just shut up and be greatful for what they're getting, with the occasional Take That at Core's later games in the series.... Then there are the ones who Take That about every aspect of Core games to a degree that matches the Crystal Dynamics haters.
- Mortal Kombat, primarily around the time it stopped using digitized actors and switched to 3D.
- The retcons, character derailment and upcoming crossover with DC Comics (which brought along a Kombat without gore) didn't help either.
- Well, the whole "without gore" bit is very premature. There isn't as much gore as the normal Mortal Kombat games, but there are still fatalities, blood, etc.
- The Sonic The Hedgehog series, pre-Sonic Adventure and post-Sonic Adventure. Then there are the people who liked the old games, Adventure, Adventure 2 and the new 2D games; easy enough to find if you're looking, but a peripheral glance at the fandom core makes one think they don't exist, mostly because they don't want to be caught in the crossfire.
- And then there's the people who like or hate certain characters, the odd ship wars, and differing opinions on what games were signs of jumping the shark and what games were the exception...
- Among the vocal contingent that says the series has been going downhill since Sonic 3 & Knuckles, none of them can seem to agree why the Genesis games are allegedly better than the current-gen titles.
- Not even Fan Haters are safe from this trope. While (most) fans agree that Sonic The Hedgehog 2006 blows goats, nobody can decide what made it so bad. Was it a potential classic rushed out the door as an unplayable mess before it could be properly debugged, or was it an utter failure from the start and should never have been made?
- And that's not even counting the fan factions for the various animated/comic book adaptations...
- The broken-ness of the Sonic fandom was actually worse before the Dreamcast flopped, because not only there was a whole debate about how good the Sonic Adventure games really were; many people still remembered the innumerable obscure adaptations. There were the Sat AM fans who believed that the saturday-morning cartoon was the ultimate form of Sonic, and that the games were secondary; there were people who were strangely fixated with the Sonic Underground cartoon; people who liked the Archie Comics and people who hated the comics; fans of the little-known UK Sonic comic, who actually were pretty decent; and varying degrees of "Sega Sonics", people who only accepted the games. Occasionally there was someone who didn't care about any of this.
- Sega has actually admitted this about Sonic.
- In an attempt to make it coherent, the Sonic fanbase seems to be divided into several rough factions, which tend to hate each other:
- The youngest crop who grew up with the new games and don't think they're that bad. Met with disbelief.
- Fans of the spinoff media, whether the various cartoons, the anime or the comic books. Likely to get into flamewars with each other, but usually keep a low profile.
- Furries, the Butt Monkey group despite considerable overlap with the other categories.
- Overly nostalgic Fan Haters who may go the lengths of denying any association with the fanbase. Usually end up as Trolls and the most obnoxious Fan Dumb.
- The most burnt-out, jaded and bitter fans who don't give a crap anymore and fully expect the next game to suck until proven otherwise. I'm one of them.
- The Tales Series Fandom is severely broken. You can NOT like them all. Liking anything made by Team Symphonia means you only like Cliches and crap games, while hating Team Symphonia and liking Tales of Destiny means oyu are an elitist Destiny-Whore
- IN fact there are some who think it should have stopped at Tales of Destiny and operate by a strict "Tales of Destiny ONLY!" rule. The remake is the only one after Tales of Destiny that is allowed. Everything else? Junk. Even Tales of Symphonia.
- This troper recommends that you should not get involved in any official forums. you will be sentenced to death by Team Destiny fanboys if you admit to liking anything made by Team Symphonia or anything else. Never mind anything either accomplish. And Team Symphonia fanboys are a little better, considering that they're the only ones who are actually allowed to like anything made by Team Melfes or Team Destiny.
- At least the whole fandom has the same opinion about one thing - Tales of the Tempest just isn't a good game.
- The Final Fantasy flame wars. My God, the Final Fantasy flame wars.
- The dividing lines can be boiled down to "Pre-FF6", "FF7", and "FF10" camps. Other games' supporters tend to band together with one of these primary camps. Do well to know which camp is predominant in your area; talking about how great you imagine Sephiroth to be when you're on a forum filled with oldschool players is a good way of getting yourself mercilessly mauled. And the violent arguments within the Final Fantasy VII fandom alone are enough to cow a small island nation.
- Careful saying you like Final Fantasy VIII. Lot of real cranks for that one. Or Final Fantasy X-2 for that matter.
- Final Fantasy XI fans pretty much have two lines of thought: Either Red Mages need to be able to self-skillchain for 2 trillion damage while casting Meteor instantly while gangraping the 50 mobs around them, or that Red Mage is horribly, horribly broken, and needs to either be hit with the nerfbat or never updated at all, ever. The arguments have gotten so old most people go "Red Mages? Again?" And promptly ignore the thread.
- Another point of contention is meleeburn-style parties. Either meleeburns are the best thing that ever happened to the game and an elegant solution to the problems of Level Grinding and DPSer oversupply, or they're a cancer on the game that precludes people's training in basic tactics, excludes some jobs and perverts others, and has caused the seek function to be conquered by Stop Having Fun Guys.
- Final Fantasy VII: Was the Compiliation a good idea or not? Just about the only thing not up to debate here is that Dirge of Cerberus didn't play very well.
- There are two types of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance fans. One side believes that Marche was right to undo the existence of Ivalice, so that his friends would face life (the Aesop of the game). The other believes that, through doing this, Marche is a mass murderer, like Hitler times a million.
- The entire ''Tactics' franchise is a broken base because the first game and the Advance games are so radically different in tone despite consisting of the same gameplay elements. Either Tactics Advance was good or it was a bane on all existence.
- This troper has decided that the only way to not get into flame wars is to like Final Fantasy IX the best.
- Obviously, someone wasn't around when the fans of FF7 and FF8 were busy complaining about FF 9 and its retro style, while the fans of the first six games broke on whether FF 9 was a true successor to the early games or a terrible imitation of what made those games great.
- Or when people who joined in at 7 trashed Final Fantasy IX for being too Simplistic and traditional. Only SOME genres are allowed to be traditional.
- Great News everyone! People are already fighting about whether Final Fantasy Versus XIII will be better than Final Fantasy XIII, or vice-versa. Some valid arguments come up about the difference in play styles. Unfortunately most debates end up becoming Fandumb bilge concerning the plots: "FFvs13 has a character with predominantly black clothing, therefore we all have to assume that the plot will be more emo crap like with Cloud lawl" or "FF13 is more colorful than versus, so its obvious that 13's story will be kiddie anime crap while versus will have a darker deeper story". The most anybody knows about either plot at this point is that a)crystals are magical, b)a government/corporation will be involved, and c)a group of ragtag warriors with superpowers (controlled by the player)will interfere. Which are pretty much the basic elements of every Final Fantasy game
- The Super Smash Bros base has broken completely over Brawl, starting with the complaints of a core group of Stop Having Fun Guys, leading to reactionism lumping anybody with an interest in Tournament Play as Stop Having Fun Guys, with those people in turn getting pissed at the opposition for classifying them as such fanatics when they simply like the duel-based competitive modes of play, and in turn taking it out on the casuals who are in it for the randomness of mascot fighting, and so on in a never-ending cycle of hatred and Internet Backdraft, with everyone being pushed to one of the extremes. It's like some cosmic chemist is trying to distill this previously strong and understanding fighting game community into pure Scrubs and Stop Having Fun Guys.
- The problem mainly stems from They Changed It Now It Sucks, as well as completely unreasonable expectations by many of the players, who apparently believed changing the game at all would be a problem, even though it was well known that many of the characters were garbage and that the game engine did have issues. There was also grousing about removing or adding new characters, as many people had favorites which didn't make it in.
- Resident Evil 4 had this problem after its release. Some fans see it as a crowning achievement of video games (regardless of the franchise or video game sub-genre). While dissenters feel that this was a turn for the worst, and prefer the old Survival Horror/ammo-rationing gameplay over the more frantic, relentless, action-oriented gameplay of RE 4. And let's not even mention the storyline, and the Bad Ass revamp of Leon which is a whole other can of worms.
- Resident Evil 5 has gotten a lot less of this since they are trying to bridge the gap between both fanbases, and return the game to serious horror rather than action movie.
- A lot of the early reviews seem to imply otherwise. One IGN reviewer went as far as saying it's not even a Resident Evil game, But an action game that has R.E.'s over reaching story arcs. But otherwise consider it a completely different game.
- Then there's a group of people who still misses the zombies.
- The complaints are especially jarring when you consider that the main complaint about the RE series before RE 4 was that it had gotten too repetitive.
- Two different groups of fans complaining about 2 different things, hence the Broken Base. Basically the ones who complained about the repetitivness are the ones who hate RE4, RE5 and even RE: Code Veronica because of the whole action over horror approach. This group hated the repetitiveness but didn't necesserily want RE to abandone the whole survivor horror aspect in favor of action. The other group got bored with the survivor horror aspect and welcomed the more action oriented approach.
- Net Hack fans are often divided on whether or not the use of alternate graphic-tile sets, instead of the default ASCII, "improves" or "ruins" the game.
- It's not a big issue, because you have the freedom to choose your preference and it makes no real difference the how the game is played. The legitimacy of tactics like pudding farming are more debatable.
- A fanbase that's already plagued by Fan Haters, the fans of the Mega Man Battle Network franchise, is pretty damn broken. The only games you should really risk saying you like are two and three. You can only like the first megaman battle network if you swear an oath saying that you only like it because it lead into number two and three. If you dare like Megaman battle network 4, then prepare for a lot of flame wars from the "Purists" who only like the first three games and "Battle network fags" who like them all. After 3, the series was Ruined FOREVER.
- Which is quite a shame since they're plagued by Megaman "Purists" who insist that the series should not have had more than the first three games.
- A subset of Halo fans is bitterly, bitterly at arms over the differences between Halo, Halo 2 and Halo 3.
- Halo Wars is starting to get this. People seem to be at odds over continuity.
- Don't forget the people who think the Pistol was perfect in the first game, and the people who think the first group should just suck it up and use the Battle Rifle, which is "pretty much" the same thing.
- The Legend Of Zelda: Majora's Mask was either the best or worst thing to happen to the franchise. Some places, it is quietly ignored as a "side story" that "doesn't count" (mostly on timeline forums). While other places it is hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
- Likewise for Wind Waker. Most of the fanbase appreciated the change in tone and mileu, but a very vocal minority decries its lack of difficulty (as if any Zelda besides the first and second were ever difficult) and an even smaller group is still bitter over teh kiddy grafix.
- Let us not forget the demographic of people who think ANY 3D zelda game is crap and think the series turned for the worst after A Link to the Past.
- This has come back in full force after the release of Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass. The Wind Waker fans decried Twilight Princess as a stale retread of Ocarina of Time and adored Phantom Hourglass and its touchscreen controls. The Twilight Princess fans complained that Phantom Hourglass wasn't as serious as its predecessors and that its controls were inferior to traditional D-pad and buttons controls. The battle lines are currently being drawn over Spirit Tracks, with an unhealthy amount of They Changed It Now It Sucks about the trains featured in the trailer.
- All predated by Zelda II: The Adventure Of Link. Its described as the dark horse the series, not The Scrappy.
- Of course, the whole debate ignores the commonly held theory that the only true sequels in the entire series are Zelda II and Phantom Hourglass.
- In the case of plenty of online competitive games, there's usually a schism with regards various minor glitches and exploits - do they make for unfair play, or are they another skill to be learned? Does using a bunnyhop or an alias constitute cheating?
- The Metroid series is very well known for its great single player... until Metroid Prime: Hunters boasted about its online multiplayer. Many reviews praised the multiplayer, but bashed the single player for being short and boring. Of course this divided up the Metroid fans in two groups; people who supported the new direction of multiplayer and people who hated the new change and claimed Metroid was ruined. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption had rumors about online and of course the divided fans broke into a Flame War over it and kept the fire going once it was revealed that the online was only to send Friend Vouchers to your friends and the game wouldn't have multiplayer.
- To this day, you'll have some people who will keep spewing ideas for a multiplayer Metroid game while others will say that the game doesn't need it.
- Also, some die hard Metroid fans insist that the series return to its 2D roots since, you know, anything in 3D sucks.
- ...A sequel to Fusion would be nice.
- The main issue with Prime 2 and Prime 3 from some segments of the Metroid fanbase, however, was more to do with a perceived slide from first person 3d conversion of the Metroid gameplay to generic FPS.
- Ironically, FPS fans criticized it for having an unconventional control scheme, while it's defenders pointed out that it's still an adventure game, just played from first-person.
- The remaining fanbase has divided even further when it was announced that Team Ninja would be producing the next Metroid game. Complaints range from "ruining the heart and soul of Metroid" (which was also said for the Prime games) and the game being "nothing but gory action". The fans who feel the opposite welcome the new change and feel the new direction is a good thing for the series.
- And it hasn't even been released yet. The complaints of Other M are all based on a very small number of trailer screenshots.
- Ever since Team Fortress 2 was released, there have been arguments about the classes and which is the strongest. Nothing wrong with that, it happens in all games. Fittingly, it was only after Valve released the Pyro's update that the flame wars started - the fanbase split between "Feels the changes were needed for the Pyro to become competitive" and "Feels the changes made the Pyro overpowered".
- Even better, the update contained a second change to the Soldier class, splitting the base into "Feels the Soldier change was unnecessary and a bad idea" and "Feels the change was a good idea because the Soldier was too powerful". That's one update creating four separate camps.
- Currently, the base seems to be split into "The Demoman is way too overpowered" and "people are just getting good at playing Demoman." This one looks set to run and run, given that Demoman is now the only class with those "fiddly little bastards", grenades.
- Right now the fanbase is divided into "The Scout Update was good and gave the Scout a necessary buff" and "The Scout Update has failed.". Especially with the Sandmans stunning ability.
- Pretty much every update results in huge They Changed It Now It Sucks flamewars. And don't forget the "everyone gets grenades/only Demoman gets grenades" people, the "cartoony style is awesome/cartoony style sucks rocks" people and the Team Fortress Classic They Changed It Now It Sucks people who all but refuse to admit a sequel exists.
- Oh god. If you go to the steam forums, make no comments EVER about the new random drop system and hats. You will be killed. Very, very fast.
- A friend of mine summed the current situation up with the following sentence: "Nowadays, there are two kinds of people in TF2. The assholes that have hats and the assholes that are jealous of the assholes that have hats."
- Due to Valve's recent desicion to remove items recieved through "idling", and giving people who didn't idle halos, Broken Base is more of a reality than ever. The result? The people who got their items removed attack the people who have halos out of envy and and the ones who have halos attack the ones without them because of that. Within 24 hours of the announcements, there already was servers which only accepted people who wore halos, and servers who only accepted people who didn't. Many blame Valve for this move, and splitting the community, while some put the blame on the idlers for putting them in that mess in the first place. A perfect example for this page.
- Mega Man 9 has clearly destroyed what's left of the bonding between Mega Man fans. As the game is going to be 8-bit, many fans regard it as the most revolutionary game of all time, while others think of it as betrayal.
- Simply going to a Megaman 9 video and commenting negatively will garner the wrath or joy of other fans.
- The ultimate counterpoint to anyone who criticizes any aspect of Mega Man 9's visual style is that they must be a n00b gamer who only cares about pretty graphics and explosions. Even if you suggest an old-school Mega Man game that simply has higher-resolution 2D graphics, this will still happen. In fact, your complaint doesn't even have to be graphics-related at all.
- There's also arguments over the spinoff games like Battle Network and Legends straying too far from the original games. Despite the fact that there are STILL games being made to cater to the ones that love the classic gameplay, the "true fans" will cling to the NES titles while others embrace the diversity and variety, sometimes saying they are better than the old games.
- The recent announcement of a crossover game between Battle Network and Star Force reignited that flame war awfully fast.
- Not as major as the examples above, but, there has been a divide on the fandom when it comes to accepting Zero's death at the end of Mega Man Zero 4. Half of the fandom like to think that Hes Just Hiding, while the other half wants to accept his death as a significant factor in his Heroic Sacrifice. It didn't help that the Official Complete Works stated that Zero's fate is still "unknown".
- Castlevania, to an extent. With Koji "IGA" Igarashi in control of the series, some fans feel that IGA (which some purists like to spell out as "eeguh") has ruined the series, as it means nothing but Metroidvanias and little variety for the remainder of the series. To some, more Metroidvanias means more of the same game, just with a different map each time. Others though, would rather not talk about the "Classicvania" era and the Nintendo Hard titles that defined the series up to Symphony of the Night.
- Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin have damaged the unity of the fanbase even further with anime-style artwork, which is in sharp contrast to the more Western artwork of titles like Symphony of the Night and Aria of Sorrow (never mind that the original Rondo Of Blood had anime-style art and nobody complained). Some like the anime-style artwork, others think it's ruining the series' image. (Order of Ecclesia drops the style.)
- And prepare to see even more brokenness in the base, thanks to Castlevania Judgment. On top of being a freakin' Castlevania fighting game, its characters bear striking resemblences to Death Note's, mainly because they are being designed by Takeshi Obata, the artist of Death Note.
- Here comes Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, a Dolled Up Installment, headed by Overseen by Hideo Kojima (IGA not in sight) and developed by Mercury Steam (AKA, the same guys who made the Love It Or Hate It Clive Barkers Jericho). Patrick Stewart doesn't save this game from arguements over the arguably generic art style, and the people who don't want a "Godofvania".
- The Ace Attorney series. Some regard Apollo Justice as a good game with great characters who just need another game to develop better and a strong, self-contained plot without the filler that the Ace Attorney sequels were getting bogged down by. Others trash Apollo for having next to no old characters, Phoenix having turned from the titular Ace Attorney into a hobo (albeit a freakishly crafty hobo), Apollo's universally-panned objection, pseudo-Time Travel in the fourth case, and regard the plot to be substandard compared to previous entries.
- Fans are also divided over whether the second game was good or not. And many, just about the third case of the second game.
- MMORPG players are notorious for this. Everytime there's a patch update, someone is bound to complain that their favorite class has been cut down while another is ridiculously overpowered.
- City Of Heroes fans generally have three changes that are points of contention for the fanbase - the suppression of travel powers after using a hostile power, the Global Defense Reduction and Enhancement Diversification (generally lumped into one change of "making characters weaker"), and the addition of player vs. player combat. To this day, there are people who are subscribed and paying purely to start crap on these changes.
- In World Of Warcraft, the complaining of some Horde players reached epic proportions when Blood Elves were added to their race list. The rest just shrugged and said it'd be nice to have some new blood on their side.
- The second expansion is sure to make things worse due to drastic changes in nearly every field (especially raids). Some people welcome the changes (if not completely), others contest them on the ground that they are dumbing down the game.
- The Warcraft fandom finally splintered into people who accept the MMO and people who don't when WoW's first expansion changed the backstory drastically to allow new playable races (see Ret Con for more information).
- The update that added the Ulduar instance and changed a lot of gameplay elements created a huge backdraft over, of all things ... fishing. Players are now able to fish anywhere, not just where they have a high enough fishing skill level. Skill level now only affects the likelihood that you will catch junk versus fish. Plenty of threads erupted over how this now nerfs fishing and how no longer requiring players to spend hours and hours skilling up fishing completely ruined that part of gameplay. So Yeah.
- The biggest break in the World Of Warcraft base seems to be between casual players, who want to be able to access game content without spending days grinding for gold/reputation/etc., and hardcore players, who are dismayed to see all of what they deem to be "the challenge" removed from the game.
- As one of the older MMORPGs around today, Everquest is full of this kind of stuff. In the early days, EQ 1 was very newbie-unfriendly. No tutorials, no easy armor quests, and if you wanted to run from one end of the continent to the other, you had to... well, run from one end of the continent to the other. And if you wanted to take a boat to the other continent, you waited for the boat. In short, the game was Nintendo Hard and everyone hated it. Over the years, the game has been made easier in the lower levels, and now you can get gear for your level 10 character that's better than the gear you had to do quests to get for your level 40 character. As for travelling, now there is the "Plane of Knowledge", from which you can get to pretty much any zone in the entire game that you'd want to go to. And people hate this too.
- Guild Wars has a very noticeable split that is seemingly supported by the producers: PvP vs Pv E. In the attempts to balance PvP, a skill or class will be Nerfed. This also affects the Pv E iterations of the skill/class, which throws this half of the fanbase into outrage. "Why are you changing things for me that weren't broken for me?" This troper's entire Pv E guild fell apart due to the Nerf fests carried out in the name of "balancing the game for PvP"!
- Oh, lawdy, GW has tons of cracks. Now with the PvE update split, it's not "They're nerfing us because of PvP!", its "Why does PvP get all the updates?" And then there's incredible contention over which campaign is best - there're the Proph purists (usually the "let's-lynch-Izzy" crowd), the rare Factions fan, and the Proph-is-slow-let's-go-play-Nightfall people like this troper (usually the "shut up about the skill updates, let's enjoy the game and leave A Net alone" crowd). Then there's the horrific debate over PvP skills and consumables ("They broke the game!" "No they just made it more fun!" "Dude guys chill!" "Ur mom!"). Lastly, though this isn't so pronounced, there's the huge gap between the overly vocal, Izzy-hating, HM- or Guild Battle-elitist (depending on PvE or PvP), PvX-despising, title-hating, A Net-loathing (or loving, in a few rare cases), anti-Eot N, GW 2-skeptical, Proph-addicted, (sometimes hypocritical) guildie-group-only, "GW is dying!" doom-and-gloom Guild Wars Guru types and the silent, Izzy-tolerating, PvE- or Arena/AB/HA-enjoying (though sometimes elitist, especially in HA), meta-following, title-greedy, A Net-ambivalent (or accepting), pro-Eot N, GW 2-excited (or skeptical), NF-loving, PU Gging or H/Hing, "GW is fine but they just nerfed my build!" average Joe players.
- ''EVE Online'' is notorious for whipping up epic whine-fests after every patch or content upgrade. Most notorious was the 'Speed Nerf' added in December 2008, which, depending on who you ask, either eliminated small-gang PvP in favor of server melting 'blob vs. blob' combat, or else saved the entire game from a Failure Cascade. Which camp you're in seems to depend on whether or not you have a billion or more tied up in your super fast ship and implants to make it Gofasta, or whether or not you are Caldari.
- This troper doesn't understand. Aren't there separate PvP-versions of skills deemed 'differently-balanced' anyways?
- There are now, but there weren't for a long time. Of course, that change also split PvE players, as some felt it was simply an excuse to add more overpoweredness to PvE.
- Kingdom Of Loathing seemed to suffer from this after the NS13 update rolled out. The fandom split between those who thought the new, longer and rebalanced game was the best thing since sliced bread, and those who hated the nerfs and felt the slower game was less fun.
- To make things worse, another such division arose around the same time over the development of KoLMafia, an unofficial but legal open-source bot/client for the game. Some felt the two lead developers on the project were being oppressive about the development of the program and how it would be adapted to NS13, calling anybody who disagreed not a true proponent of open source, and others reacted by calling the first group was a bunch of ingrates with a sense of entitlement. Both sides being equally tactless, the flame wars raged for about three weeks.
- Then there's this troper, who initially liked the game partly for the (formerly) cool community, which he feels was ruined by the doubly Broken Base ...
- Star Wars Galaxies. Bring up the words "Combat Upgrade" or "New Game Enhancements" and watch the sparks fly. The former (and even most of the current) playerbase seem (relatively) united in agreeing that the game's glory days are behind it, but asking when and why is an excellent way to start a violent flame war.
- The Unreal series fans since UT3. This troper counted two sides. The OMGTHECOMMUNITYISDYING-UT3 fans and the old-school Unreal/UT fans who want to boost the fanbase.
- Since UT 3? Broken Base set in the moment Unreal Tournament was released and established a gulf between the MP and SP side of the franchise, and more breaks have happened with every game.
- Grand Theft Auto IV was built on a new game engine, revamping many of the core gameplay aspects at the cost of some of the features in San Andreas. Once Hype Backlash set in, one side began insisting that all the fun had been removed from the game while the other side maintained that planes really wouldn't have that much of a point in Liberty City. Being reminded that San Andreas was the third installment of its generation and more features would be added to the system through downloadable content and the sequels hasn't cooled matters down.
- Fire Emblem has oldschool games vs. newschool games, original Japanese vs. localized, FE purists vs. people who got into it through Super Smash Bros, stat fans vs. storyline fans... and that's not even going into the endless pairing debates.
- Banjo-Kazooie has gone to mayhem over Nuts & Bolts; one side does not want to touch the vehicles. The annoucement of a port of the first game on Xbox Live Arcade fueled the flames further.
- There's some bickering (to say the least) in the Metal Gear Solid fandom over the increasingly Post-Modernist-shading on the plot and the wobbly 4th wall the games had acquired since Sons of Liberty. Some cite it as a brilliant way to hook the players into the stories and characters, while others think it's a clogging, incomphrensible mess that gets in the way of the actual game play - don't even go into the subject of Sons of Liberty's infamous Gainax Ending. And let's not even get started on the changes in the combat and stealth systems that each game had, usually with complaints "It's too easy" or "Come on, I don't have time to memorize all this junk!"
- Street Fighter has a complicated issue here. When Street Fighter III came out, many of the fans fully entrenched in the series before that point hated the "parry" system, claiming it was a Game Breaker. Capcom worked out the kinks, eventually culminating in Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike. However, many "old-schoolers" still hate the whole idea of parries at all and won't play it seriously. Ironically, when Street Fighter IV finally came out, with no parries at all,Street Fighter III had its own bastion of "old-schoolers" who decried it for lacking that gameplay element.
- Guilty Gear: Reload or Accent Core? Each game has its fanbase who say one is awesome and the other is terrible. Your mileage may vary.
- The Elder Scrolls fanbase is divided into multiple factions; those who think Morrowind is pure brilliance but consider Oblivion to be dumbed down for the "console 'tards" and Daggerfall to be a glitchy, repetitive mess, those who loved Daggerfall but think of Morrowind what the Morrowind fans think of Oblivion (and don't even get them started on Oblivion), those who like Oblivion but think Morrowind is clunky, ugly (more the setting than the graphics), and repetitive and probably don't even know Daggerfall exists, those enjoyed both Daggerfall and Morrowind but not Oblivion, and about 3 people that think the whole series should have stopped with Arena. Say the wrong thing in the wrong section of the official forums and you'll quickly attract a lynch mob.
- You forgot the people that like all the Elder Scrolls games. Both of us.
- Chrono Cross - Excellent game that brings resolution to the events of Chrono Trigger in a fun and inventive way. Or existentialist piece of crap with too convoluted a plot, too many characters, and too many unanswered questions. OR not even part of the series.
- Well, considering you can't really call it a series if there's only one game in it...
- The recent cease-and-desist letter sent to the makers of the fan-game Crimson Echoes has also generated numerous cracks in the Chrono fanbase: Was Square right to defend their intellectual property by shutting down the game, or did they act too hasty to crush a nearly-completed work? Were the creators being practical and mature in complying with the letter, or are they cowards for not trying to find a way to put out the game?
- There's two types of Tetris players: Those who play casually and will accept any kind of Tetris. And then you have those who play the Tetris The Grand Master series.
- Mario Kart has this all over. There's the question of whether snaking ruins the game or just rewards the skillful. There's the question of bikes versus karts, which gives some people a headache to even be near. There's also arguments over given sets of tracks, particularly in the DS and Wii versions which bring back some of the old tracks. There are even arguments over how the items behave, and which way works best (should fake item boxes block attacks from behind? how should the blue shell work?). About the only thing that the fanbase can agree on is that The Computer Is A Cheating Bastard.
- Super Robot Wars. Either you like the OG characters, or hate them like plague, and diss the OG series and its fans.
- Fallout has this. Fallout 3 was produced by a separate company which, rather than producing an RPG, produced an action RPG. Fans of the Fallout franchise were split over the fact that the "sequel" wasn't a sequel in the sense of "being the same sort of game". Bethesda overreacted, banning numerous people from the forums for even saying the slightest bad thing about their game, further confirming detractor's claims that they're simply trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and pass off trash as treasure, while Oblivion fans are overjoyed at the new game.
- Fallout 3 had an even louder three-way split over Fawke's gender, or whether he had a gender at all. This might've died down when the voice actor for the character weighed in during an interview, but it didn't until true Word Of God said, "Hey, it's a guy. Who would've thought otherwise?"
- The fanmade prequel of Portal called Portal: Prelude has this. Not as bitter, as some other examples though. The main accusation of the haters is this mod being too action-filled and "not faithful to the original Portal". This is stupid, as a mod doesn't HAVE to be faithful to the original to be good. The main defense of those who like the mod is all too often "Sorry that you are too n00b at Portal to play this game" which is even stupider, as it doesn't prove anything.
- Pokemon. Oh god, Pokemon... You don't have to look hard at all to find a generation war.
- THERE! ARE! 151! POKEMON!
- Or currently, over the new female character in the Gold and Silver remakes.
- The overlap between Pokemon fans and furries is causing a growing divide in itself.
- Silent Hill seems to suffer another fracture in its base with every sequel. Although Silent Hill 2 garnered critical and fan acclaim, Silent Hill 3 was immediately hated by a subset of fans and declared a shark jumping moment, due partly to all the Epileptic Trees its storyline Jossed. Then Silent Hill 4 came out and it almost instantly became The Scrappy of the series, although Critical Backlash set in and a number of fans began to complain that the fans complaining were only complaining because it's a different experience. Once Konami exported the series to outside development teams, starting with Silent Hill Origins and moving on to Silent Hill Homecoming, the fanbase split again, between fans saying that the latest games have lost the atmosphere and rely on formula, and other fans saying that the fans complaining are culturally biased against the western developers and that the formula is just Silent Hill's style.
- There is a very small minority of Legacy Of Kain fans who refuse to acknowledge that the games beyond Blood Omen are canon.
- Day of Defeat - well, there's weaponsmod, which some find intuitive and fun, whilst others complain it makes class selection irrelevant. There's the war about whether or not firing through thin walls is fair play, and let's not get started on those who play the game as a tense, realistic deathmatch, and those who strictly play as part of their team.
- The Crash Bandicoot fandom. Oh, dear God, the Crash Bandicoot fandom. There are the fans who refuse to acknowledge any of the games not made by Naughty Dog and hate the later games, the fans who embrace the series as a whole, and those who only like the newer games and constantly hate on the Naughty Dog games.
- Counter Strike has a rather fractured fanbase who are impossible to please. There are those who think that Beta 7, 1.3 and 1.5 were the best. That's not counting Condition Zero which is almost identical to 1.6. But just as things were starting to settle down, the Source re-make comes out and further splits the community, mainly between the competitive and more casual players. Don't even visit the forums when an patch comes out because there WILL be something that has completely ruined the game according to some players.
- Half-Life 2 - did Valve ruin a classic, or did they produce the perfect spiritual successor?
- Half-Life 2 Episodes - Are they an utter failure with how long it's taking to get each game, or are they worth the wait and the fans are just whiny and unappreciative of Portal, Left 4 Dead's sequel or Team Fortress 2's free updates? Both, because it takes time to make a game, but the angry fans are justified in that the episodes are a failure since the idea of "Episodic Gameplay" is to not keep the people waiting 2 years for the next installment. This has even been mentioned by a specific critic.
- If there's anything any decent gamer knows, Spyro The Dragon fandom is not all that great. Forget the dragon, people will create their own sparks and flames and fury over what Sierra has done. Oh yeah, don't mention the movie either, that's only fueling more stupidity...
- Kirby has a bit of a broken base concerning the quality of the newer games, starting with Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards. And let's not even get started on the anime...
- Crystal Shards? I would have thought it starts with Dream Land 3 — compared to Super Star before it, dissenters might point to its simpler crayon-like graphics, fewer copy abilities without multiple attack commands, helpers replaced with Gooey and the animal friends, and so on.
- Nintendo fans in general have broken themselves once the Wii came along. First, people want new and original games and when they got them (such as No More Heroes and Madworld), either no one really buys them and the fans blame everyone else for not buying the games or they find something to nit pick about the games' flaws. Then we got fans that want remakes of old classics and when they finally got one in the form of Punch Out Wii, now fans are crying that it's just a $50 NES game remake. And then there's the controls themselves. People wanted more classic controller/gamecube controller support since the Wii was nothing but waggle fests. They got it and now they whine there's not enough motion controls and the purpose of the Wii is defeated. Oh, think Wii Motion + will fix all that? Nope, now the fans are whining that they now have to buy 4 of them (1 for each controller) and how the add on should have been available from the start. The massive flip flopping is enough to give you a headache.
- Actually, its not flip-flopping, its not really understanding the complaints. Just because a game does something different doesn't mean that something different is for the better - many things which are prevalent in games are there because they're fun. People want remakes of old games but they want them to be superior to and build from what came before, not just have updated graphics. People want the Wii's motion controls to be meaningful, but they don't want them to be thrown in randomly as a gimmick in games which don't need them, and not every game needs to use the Wii's motion sensing technology for no reason. The Wii motion sensor isn't good enough to do the things which we were really hoping for (-real- swordfighting), and having to pay more money for what you expected in the first place (and what the company made people expect with their advertisements) is a perfectly legitimate complaint.
- Except that fans are never really specific on what exactly they want. They only say they want this and that, then when they get it, it's only then that they are more specific on what they really want. That and most fans ignore that using something like motion plus in day 1 would most likely add to the price of the Wii quite a lot, which defeats Nintendo's purpose of keeping their console cheap so that everyone (read: families and friends) can play. Yes it could have or should have been there, but the cost in the start may not have been worth it and most fans would still denounce the Wii as an overpriced Gamecube with no hard drive.
- Left 4 Dead fans have broken themselves once Valve announced a sequel stated to be released at the end of 2009, exactly one year after the first game was released. Fans who are upset by this now cry that Valve only cares about money and milking its fans by making all the new content for the sequel instead of concentrating on DLC for the first game as they wanted it. They even called Valve the next EA in terms of milking franchises (when was the last time Valve ever milked anything?). The more extreme fans that are upset have formed a Steam group dedicated to boycotting the sequel and so far, they have gained more than 34,945 members! This has gotten the attention of IGN and The Escapist (where Yahtzee works at), causing them to post a short article about the group's cause. Most people commenting in the articles are mostly mocking the fans that are boycotting. The people that are not upset by the sequel are either not responding or telling everyone else to suck it up, either because they're actually glad to be given more Left 4 Dead so soon, as opposed to their other franchise who's been waiting since late 2007 to even have any indication that Half Life 2: Episode 3 is even in development yet let alone when they might actually get it.
- Of course they're all going to buy it in the end so Valve wins anyways.
- The Thief series also has this, to a certain extent. The most prevalent bone of contention regards how Thief: Deadly Shadows stacks up against Thief: The Dark Project and Thief II: The Metal Age. Some feel that the most recent sequel carries the torch of the series, and others think that it was a mistake (and others still who haven't played the first two games anyway). God knows what Thief IV will bring...
- And then there is the very classic split between the horror/undead/supernatural Dark Project faction and the mechanical/human-oriented Metal Age faction. In this latter split, you have TDP-fans who love the creepy atmosphere of the first game, the dark (pun not intended) plot, the terrifying critters and mid-to-late game levels, and think that TMA lacked atmosphere and was generally unpolished - to the point where some state that Thief II was noticeably rushed due to the then-impending demise of Looking Glass Studios. On the other hand, the Metal Agers think that the levels in TMA were better designed (with the mid game levels are amongst the best in the series), that the plot was more nuanced than the first game and featured a fantastically mad bad guy, and that the undead/creature levels took away from the pure thievery segments. At the end of the day, however, it basically boils down to one group preferring Hammer Haunts and Burricks, and the other preferring security bots and mechanical Cherubs.
- UB Funkeys is a child's game with many adult players. Amusingly, only the adults have childish arguments over the game - but boy, do they EVER. The first series was the best, the Chat Funkeys are ruining everything, how dare they add so much new furniture, every new Funkey is ruining the series forever, all the designs are either too weird or too generic, and so on and so forth. The fandom is most notably divided over the Nightmare Rift and Dream State additions; either adding alternate dimensions wherein small isolated species have developed and been contained against their will (thus explaining why we never saw them before) is a brilliant concept or a complete and total asspull depending on who you're talking to. (And the voice acting is either so overdramatic it's hysterical or so badly done it's cringe inducing depending on which character and what player you're talking to.) This Troper's head spins sometimes trying to keep up with it all.
- The Star Control fanbase has long ago declared a sweeping denial of Star Control 3. This may have been a case of a broken fanbase becoming mended, although the reason for this is mostly that there was little or no fanbase for Star Control 3. Of course, that in itself may be a case-in-point against the third game.
- Whether Visual Novels can be considered a game at all, or just a 'book on the PC' sparked some debate. Good luck when the subject of Ecchi is used as ammo.
- Any game that has Multiple Endings and no Sequel (...yet) and no Word of God will spark massive flame wars over which ending is Canon, which ending is lame, which is the best ending, and finally what ending would the game's supposed Sequel start from.
- Dot Hack message boards are usually very peaceful... until you make a poll "Project .hack (The World R:1) vs. .hack Conglomerate (The World R:2)". Then BANG - flame war.
- Various aspects of 358/2 Days have done this to the Kingdom Hearts fandom. Especially Xion, who seems to have no middle ground with the fandom (which might be expected, as a girl in a series dominated by YaoiFangirls).
- Of course, the other main females, Kairi and Namine, have never really fared much better. Apparently among the fangirls, you either like one or the other, or dislike them both. Liking the both of them is unheard of, despite the irony of the two of them being pretty much the same being split in two.
- Knights Of The Old Republic, over whether or not the first or second game is better.
- Oh, hell. Lucas Arts may have made a "canonical" alignment and gender for Revan and Exile, but bringing the topic of either up is still a great way to get a Mythbusters-style kaboom.
- Call Of Duty, one group thinks any thing past #2 sucks. One Group that thinks anything before #4 sucks. Whether the ones made by Treyarch suck or not. And even on what dierction the series' setting should go.
- And then dedicated servers replaced by matchmaking on PC opened a whole other can of worms.
- Backyard Sports. There are the people who thought the games were Ruined FOREVER when the pros came in. Others thought of them as an improvement, and thought everything after online play was ended sucked. Then came the redesigning of the kids, changing to 3D, removing and adding characters...the series is left with no fanbase now.
- The Breath Of Fire fandom generally got along pretty well...and then Dragon Quarter came out, with the fanbase firmly divided between those who loved it and those who hated it with the passion of a thousand suns (even refusing to acknowledge it as being in the series).
- And seeing as the Breath Of Fire franchise hasn't had a new game out since 2005, the Holy Warring has only gotten worse—because a sizable portion of the fandom sees Dragon Quarter as a Franchise Killer.
- Seeing as pretty much most of the rumours and discussion of a possible revival of the franchise has centered around Breath Of Fire IV, even Capcom seems to want to stay the hell out of this.
Web Comics
Western Animation
- The fans of The Simpsons all got along fine, once upon a time. Now war rages between those who believe the show is as fun and sharp as it ever was, and those who think it's about a decade or so past its use-by date and new episodes are stupid and unfunny.
- Family Guy is basically the same way now.
- And The Simpsons even have it's own handful of pet broken episodes. "Homer's Enemy": way too dark, pointless, exaggerated Broken Aesop or one of the most brilliant, most meaningful, most perfectly-executed episodes in the series with the best one-off character in history. "Homer at the Bat": surrealist, irritating crap with too many guest stars or surrealist, absolutely hilarious, excellently-characterized satire; etc.
- Most fans agree that the Transformers franchise has had its ups and downs, but which is which is forever the subject of heated debate. Transformers Animated is simultaneously the best and worst show ever.
- Or maybe the franchise has been ruined FOREVER: "Fans realize something Hasbro does not, that robust 25-year-old billion-dollar franchises, while seemingly healthy, are in actuality as fragile as two bricks tied together with tissue paper." That line pretty much describes the fanbase's position on everything.
- There are Transformers fans who think the original was the ONLY series, with all other subsequent series to be inferior knockoffs. These people are known as "Geewunners", and can be identified by their distinctive rallying cry of "TRUKK NOT MUNKY!"
- There's also a group of fans who hate the fact that some TF toys moved away from Licensed vehicles (real life vehicles). And switched to generic ugly looking cars and TRUKKs.
- Ben 10 fans can't seem to decide amongst themselves whether Gwen is the only good thing about the show or its debilitating ruination. Her Alien Force version gets a lot of this too.
- Toonami fans were split on TOM4 (the weird flat-faced robo-alien one). Naturally, they were also split when the original TOM replaced Moltar. As well, Cartoon Network's Network Decay propagates this.
- Avatar The Last Airbender shippers are notorious for this. The Zutara fans and Kataang fans get into Ship To Ship Combat for example. There's other Die For Our Ship moments that annoy the more sane fans of the show.
- Season three is also controversial for the fanbase. If you don't like it and explain why, you're likely be harassed for not being a 'true fan', but if you do like it, you're dismissed as a drooling, zealot fanboy/girl.
- Azula's series finale Villainous Breakdown is a subject of much controversy as well. People who think the influence of Azula's father on her actions gives her a valid Freudian Excuse, and that Azula deserves to be forgiven and redeemed, are accused of downplaying her numerous wicked actions over the course of the series, including advocating genocide of the Earth Kingdom in the finale. People who think that Azula has no excuse for her actions, and that not only was her Villainous Breakdown well-deserved, but that she deserves to spend the rest of her life suffering in prison, are accused of overlooking Azula's mental fragility and her father's influence on her actions. The fact that Bryke left Azula's fate ambiguous will likely leave fans warring over this issue for a long time.
- How Aang defeats Ozai has created quite the break, itself. There are those who feel Aang's "spiritbending" trick (or as many call it "The Easy Button") was a lame Ass Pull for the sole purpose of not having Aang kill Ozai, rendering three seasons worth of training to master Water, Earth, and Firebending worthless. Others feel that if Aang hadn't mastered the elements and achieved true Avatar status, he never would've been able to access the spiritbening trick at all and saw it as a perfectly acceptable third option. And, of course, there's the overwhelmed minority who's just willing to chalk it up to Rule Of Cool and apply the MST 3 K Mantra to any argument to "how".
- Ever since M Night Shyamalan was announced to be directing the (live action) movie, it has been treated as either a horrible disaster or Snark Bait. (And then a very small third group is genuinely excited.) This only gets worse every time they announce a new cast member due to...controversial casting choices.
- The Danny Phantom fandom has an ongoing war between "true fans" and "anti-fans." The true fans believe in only writing Fan Fic and drawing Fan Art they believe creator Butch Hartman would approve of, and tend towards being Moral Guardians over any fora they're part of. The anti-fans, on the other hand, believe in fanart as an expression of the fan's thoughts and fantasies, from crack/slash pairings to drawing porn of the characters (which was probably how the war started anyway).
- The 90's X-Men cartoon, Adaptation Distillation or Adaptation Decay?
- The Daria fanbase was once split over the issue of character development. Some enjoyed watching Daria open up to her peers, make new friends, get a boyfriend, soften her hard line, etc. Others, identified much more closely with Daria as a cynical mysanthrope, declared They Changed It Now It Sucks.
- The Boondocks is either a funny thought provoking show. Or it's in danger of becoming what Dave chappelle feared his show was turning into. Basically a show that was getting the wrong kinda laughs, for the wrong reasons from the wrong group of people.
- There are to main views on South Park, either it really hit it's stride when it moved from a show comprised solely of crude shock value humor to one focused just as much on social/political commentary or it completely went to hell.
- Teen Titans was notorious for its Robin/Starfire vs. Robin/Raven shipping war. It got so bad that stating your preference was a quick way to make enemies. There were even little online cultures around the ships—Robin/Starfire shippers tended to consider themselves more well-adjusted than the alternative, whereas Robin/Raven shippers often considered themselves more mature due to the complex nature of their ship.
- The series finale "Things Change": Brilliant and bittersweet way to end the series where Beast Boy learns a lesson about letting go, or confusing, anti-climactic mess that goes against the mood of the series and leaves way too many unanswered questions?
- An overlap with Film and Live-Action TV: There are two factions of Ghostbusters fans: the Ghostheads, who prefer the Columbia Pictures film and its animated series The Real Ghostbusters, and the Go-ers, fans of Filmation's 1975 live-action series The Ghost Busters and 1986 animated series Filmation's The Original Ghostbusters. The fandom is mostly divided on which animated series came first, and on which ghost-busting premise (proton packs vs. dematerializers) is better.
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