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Headscratchers: Saints Row: The Third
  • Word of God says that Steelport, the setting of SR 3, was founded by blue-collar factory workers, and suffered a downturn due to lack of proper zoning and other screw-ups. Alright, so why not just get a proper city planner as the place was growing?
    • Because that would be the intelligent thing to do and intelligence is a very rare commodity in the world of Saints Row.
      • Even rarer than it is in real life?
    • Yes. Shocking I know.
  • What is with Shaundi's drastic change in attitude? I can accept maturing, but she's a completely different character. She bears no resemblance to the way she is in the second game. I do like the character, but why is she basically a female Gat?
    • Maybe she out grew her stoner phase? It alot like Dex's change in character from SR 1 to SR 2. Years do tend to change people. I mean there are differences from the person we are now to the person we were when we were younger and each game has a gap of a few years.
    • There seems to have been a lot of changes in basic character. The boss no longer seems to have the vicious, amoral streak from the second game and seems, if not "good" than at least less morally ambiguous. Pierce also seems to have lost much of his characterization as a planner and his occasional bickering with Shaundi for the Boss' attention.
      • Well, the Boss still enjoys killing people, so (s)he's not "good", but the Saints becoming media darlings did change them....Hell, isn't that basically what both Birk and Gat said at the start of the game?
    • Except that only explains why she changed, not why she changed to how she is now. I could understand why she would become more mature, or at least stop smoking, but she's also became super serious ALL the time, in the opening level before the death of Gat she expresses distaste in Birk's easy going-ness, and later takes every opertunity to act angry and snippy. With Dex, it was because he gained newfound power (A high ranking place at a corupt corporation instead of being a gangs smart guy) and wanted to protect this power, an understandable change. But Gat and Pierce didn't change that much from their new found status as media icons (Pierce did become a lot more respected, but that's more of people around him changing than he himself changing), yet Shaundi doesn't even personally resemble her previous self. That explanation doesn't explain her new personality or why she became so angry.
    • I'm just about to put an explanation up on Fridge Brilliance about this.
    • Entirely explained in Saints Row IV. Shaundi sobered up and Took a Level in Badass after Saints Row 2 because of how often she needed help (i.e., getting saved by the Boss). Then, Gat dies, and she feels tremendous guilt for the next game-and-a-half. Her entire character arc in Saints Row IV revolves around her reconciling her past (AKA, Fun Shaundi), and her present (SR 3 Shaundi). Finally resolved in her loyalty mission when both Shaundis save each other at the same time in the simulation from a digital version of Veteran Child.
      • There's also the fact that, at least in this troper's personal experience, people who used to do drugs frequently tend to become less fun and a lot quicker to anger once they quit drugs, which is probably a combination of brain chemical imbalances created by the drug's absence(which would probably take quite a while to rectify, sometimes years) as well as shame and regret over all the years and money they "wasted" on their habit manifesting itself as anger. Former drug users tend to not be very happy people in the short term, though I suppose it is better in the long run so long as they don't relapse.
  • What exactly was stopping The Boss from sending someone else to save Shaundi/eliminate Killbane while (s)he did the other thing? Oleg, Pierce, Kinzie, Angel... not like The Boss was short on homies.
    • The streets being overrun by STAG and Luchadores maybe?
    • (Different poster to OP); Actually, by my count Zimos at least isn't involved with anything, Kinzie/Angel is already in a position to deal with Kia/Killbane and there are a few extra homies one can acquire (Burt Reynolds/Nyte Blade for example) who are also potentially free as well as a large number of nameless Saints.
    • Burt fucking Reynolds was also taken hostage. He's the one egging you on to take out that terrorist (Kia), and possibly would go with STAG being terrorists to get them out of his city. If he dies in the bad ending then he can't interfere with STAG.
    • You still have a gang with many helicopters at their disposal and enough weaponry to take over the city. If they couldn't send Burt Reynolds, they could send their own army. You deal with getting Shaundi, they just fly their helicopters over and shoot down Killbane's plane.
    • It's...yeah, it's a bit of a cop out. I know. But there's STAG fighting going on everywhere, I would say STAG blocks communications (Kinzie being Kinzie would get through} but you can't call up for aid during the mission.
      • I think at that point, the Saints were busy fighting for their lives what with the Luchadores, the Deckers, and STAG coming after them. The Boss was too distracted to radio someone else to go deal with Killbane.
  • So, how exactly could a Memetic Badass like Gat get killed so easily at the begining of the game, especially in a way that you didn't even see it? I didn't realize he was really dead until I completed the game and got him as a Zombie, since I didn't expect him to die. He could take down waves of police officers, but not the a plane filled with Morning Star and their leader, many of whom you'd also killed yourself and the leader of which he easily over powered a moment ago?
    • He had already been shot in the gut at the start of the level, and unlike those other situations he was in a cramped area without access to all his weapons. All the morning star had to do was wait until he was looking at the controls and not the door and just shoot him.
    • Actually, he was stabbed, and he'd been in a worse situation before. Remember, previously Gat has been Made of Iron, and even after getting stabbed he killed five or more people without any trouble. And even then, I'm not confused as to them killing him, but the way he died doesn't make much sense considering he'd been so important to the plot previously. And then, there's the fact the Boss doesn't even act like he lost him (He makes a few comments when you kill someone along the lines of 'thats for you Johnny' or 'Yeah, just like Gat', but that's it). So, I don't see why he died in such a way, how he could actually be killed, and why the Boss doesn't seem to mind losing his best friend, especially when he'd been really worked up over Gat being nearly killed in the last game (He actually showed more emotion when Gat got stabbed in the last game than when he died here).
    • I'm guessing that Gat will return in some form via DLC, since it'd be utterly bizarre for the developers to drop a bridge on their franchise's top character. (Who knows if the crazy bastard is actually dead - Zombie!Gat could just be a novelty unlockable. We're talking about a game where you can drive a computer game tank around town.) Making a huge arc about Gat's death only to do a take-back later would be bad mojo.
    • The problem was, he was stabbed, going up against a bunch of guys all by himself, and then he went to fly the plane. When he was trying to fly the plane, he was distracted and eventually had too many people get up behind him. It's kinda hard to fly and shoot at the same time.
    • That and there's a Wild Mass Guessing that Gat was getting tired of his homies being media whores (listen to him when they're in the cell at the start of the game), and figured that this would be his last, grand exit in glory. He probably wanted to die fighting bad guys, not die in some posh hotel as co-director of a gang of celebreties.
    • Explained in Saints Row IV (this is a bit of a theme for many of these). Gat wasn't killed at all, and actually handled the Morningstar and Loren without breaking a sweat. Hell, when the Boss says he thought Gat died, Gat feels slighted by the implication some effete Belgian bastard killed him. It turns out Zinyak warped in at that moment and abducted Johnny because he feared that Johnny could stop his alien invasion single-handedly. Aliens with gigantic space ships and laser weapons coming out of every orifice. He's a badass.
      • In short, they retconned it after the fanbase took to their pitch forks.
  • Given how uptight Shaundi had become how come she has a dating show?
    • Wasn't that when she was still high most of the time?
    • She comments to Boss about still having it. At the start of the game she is prickly, but doesn't get really bad until Johnny's death. It's still kind of hard to imagine.
    • Explained and/or inferred in one of the optional audio logs you can collect in Saints Row IV: the amount of effort she needed to put into the show was a contributing factor to being less of a party girl and more a serious person. Basically, the show came before her personality shift.
  • Here's what I don't get: If Steelport didn't like the Saints, why do they have posters of them all over town, including Saints clothing stores in the beginning of the game?
    • The hate comes especially when STAG enforces martial law. At the start of the game it's the Syndicate who don't want them there, and being a criminal organization they can only trash Planet Saints in gang attacks. When STAG rolls into town Steelport has bigger things to worry about. Then there's also Mayor Burt fucking Reynolds, who is a Saints supporter. He fought the army before STAG shows up, so he would have enough pull to let the Saints operate despite the public outcry. And there are still fans wanting an autograph when you're fighting STAG and the Luchadores.
  • Okay, so Shaundi wants Killbane dead. IIRC, she, Boss, and Kinzie are flying in a helicopter that has a minigun. So why doesn't she just take the minigun and start firing at Killbane's car rather than asking Boss to get up close and personal so she can ready her sniper?
    • Actually the helicopter had no guns, it's an Oppressor like one of the police spotter or news choppers. Besides, for Shaundi It's Personal, she wants to be the one to take the shot.
  • Why did Johnny Gat have to do his Stupid Sacrifice in the beginning? I know he wants to look after Boss, but why? They're up against a plane full of thugs who want to kill them all, and he think he can take them all and drive a plane at the same time? Why didn't Boss say, "Don't be stupid! We're going to the cockpit together." Why was he worried about Boss' wellbeing? Shouldn't he know by now that Boss can survive all kinds of hell and keep dishing out all different kinds of pain on the bad guys?
    • Actually, judging from the tone of Gat's voice, I don't think he expected to come across the level of resistence he did. More than likely, he really was planning to kick copious amounts of kiester and then fly the plane home, only to get a very NASTY suprise in an area with little cover.
  • Why does it seem like hunting down Killbane is supposed the correct choice in the last mission? The Boss is all about loyalty to his homies to me.
    • Its not. Its clearly the Downer Ending choice.
      • Ah, but (as someone said further up the page) all the references to the Daedalus throughout the game become pointless if you don't go after Killbane, and the Killbane/Temple strand is much tougher than the Kia/Mars one. It /does/ seem like the 'canon' ending, but I agree with the OP here; you'd expect the canon ending to be the one where the Boss saves Shaundi, since loyalty is just about their only redeeming attribute. My guess is that the weirdness is a result of the devs wanting to finish with a decision that called back to all the in-game references to how the Saints were changing, while maintaining the tradition of killing off important characters at the end of the game (like Julius in SR 2). It still seems like it would have made more sense to have, say, Shaundi kidnapped by Killbane and Reynolds or Hughes with Kia so that the choice was clearly between gang loyalty and profit/influence, but there you go.
      • "We're done being media whores". Saving Shaundi, you go right back to being media whores. Taking out Killbane, you declare Steelport a sovereign nation.
      • I just have the feeling that the entire Saint's Row series IS in fact a precursor to Red Faction itself (as opposed to just being in the same canon), and the last game in the series will feature Boss as a soulless corporate leader with plans on colonizing Mars. Even the jokish Gangstas in Space ending has the movie taking place on Mars...
    • The Save Shaundi ending is canon by Saints Row IV. Shaundi is still alive, the Boss is now President of the United States, and [[spoilers: Earth is destroyed, which probably ends the Shared Universe of Saints Row and Red Faction.]]
  • Assuming that the ending of Saint's Row The Third: The Trouble With Clones DLC is canon where Johnny Gat is revived/cloned to Johnny Tag, how the hell is Boss and Pierce going to explain all this to the Saints, including Shaundi? Especailly after we've witnessed how she acted throughout the entire third game?
    Boss: Yo! Shaundi! Aaah...don't be alarmed or anything, but I found us a new homie, and he' Oleg...except... He's the clone of our dead friend, Johnny Gat.
    Shaundi: I'M GONNA FUCKING KILL YOU!! <attacks Boss>
  • At the end of the DLC Gangstas in Space, Boss tells Jenny (right before she plows their ship into the Jerk Ass director that what she is doing is extreme. Um, what? Everything the Boss did up to that point was more extreme than what Jenny ever would do, so why is the Boss saying this?
    • Boss doesn't want Jenny to end up like him?
    • Hypocritical Humor
    • That's what I'm thinking, perhaps he feels that only he gets to do all the extreme stuff and is confused when others try to imitate him. Plus, he didn't seem to have a problem with it, as he just puts his seatbelt on and lets her continue on her warpath.
    • I think it's important to know that he's in the ship at the time. It's fine when he's doing it, as he is in control and can keep himself from not dying. Here? Not in control, and he doesn't know what's going on in Jenny's head. For all he knows, she's going to kill herself and take the director with her as she goes.
    • Jenny herself points out that she's only following the Boss' advice on standing up for herself, which the Boss acknowledges with a casual shrug.
  • What is with fans and treating the bad ending of Saints Row The Third (the ending where you go after Killbane rather than saving Shaundi) as canon? I mean look at inFamous, the good ending was still the canon ending, not to mention the fact that Boss left Shaundi to die which is OOC.
    • I believe a lot of it has to do with the fact that the future of Red Faction is canon in the SR franchise, coupled with the Boss's desire to get his gang back into their arse-kicking roots. The biggest way to show that one is serious is to take out enemies with no remorse or care about what may be sacrificed. Couple it with Steelport's succession from the US and it seems like the perfect lead in to Red Faction, with one or two more game showing the Boss's continued evolution to full on Corporate Monster.
      • If the bad ending is meant to be canon though, why the "I Need A Hero" music to make the player feel like they're on a rescue mission?
      • Dark humor, and the entire situation setting you up to feel really great about slaughtering Killbane until the last minute.
      • Saints Row IV has the Save Shaundi ending as canon, since she's still alive, and the Boss becomes President. Also, Earth is destroyed, so Saints Row and Red Faction are probably not in canon with each other anymore. Either that, or with the time travel shenanigans at the end of Saints Row IV's Golden Ending, multiple universes are created, with one or more leading to Red Faction.
  • When Killbane attacks you at the beginning of Act 2, Shaundi says "What he did to Johnny's funeral, yadda yada yada." But we never see a funeral, and that was the first contact they had with him. What?
    • If you blew up the Syndicate building Boss will say they're going back for Gat's funeral. Watch the bridge cut scene again and you'll see one of the vehicles is a purple hearse which Killbane blows off the road. Sparing the building doesn't mention the funeral, making it a little ambiguous.
      • Ah okay, yeah I saved the building so I didn't get that text.
    • Additionally, the game's script has been confirmed to be several scripts frankensteined together. The attack was actually changed several times. At one point, it was actually at Johnny's funeral (as in, in Mourning Wood Cemetery). At one point, the city was nuked. Oh, and there was originally supposed to be two stingers, depending on which ending you chose. If you left Shaundi to die, she joined STAG. If you saved her, The Syndicate was revealed to have a new leader... Johnny Gat.
  • Why does everyone assume Kia was acting on her own accord in the final mission, and that Cyrus and S.T.A.G. had nothing to do with it? There were S.T.A.G. soldiers all over the statue. There was no way what Kia was doing could be concealed from all of them, and the fact that so many of them sat by and watched, and tried to help Kia is about all the evidence you need to realize that either A: S.T.A.G. is just as evil as the Saints could ever be. Or B: That Cyrus is a lousy commander who can't even keep track of the people closest to him to keep them in line. And considering how willing Cyrus was to bombard Steelport into rubble the former is far more likely.
    • If you don't go kill Kia, Cyrus admonishes you for blowing up the monument. When the boss says it was all Kia, Cyrus doesn't believe him. Since there's no cameras or anything nearby, there's no reason for him to lie. If he knew, he probably wold have been like "Now that we framed you we can use our full might."
    • Plus (IIRC) all the bombs are on what seem to be supply crates, so Kia could have told them to dig in because the Saints were coming when really she was just preparing to blow the statue

  • Why did they go out of their way to make Shaundi look so different? Whats more, why couldn't they have gotten somebody who sounds a little more like Eliza Dushku to play her? I know people's looks change and everything, but their voices don't change that much. Shaundi seemed like a completely different character in every single way.
    • Because she changed and clearly was filling in Johnny Gat's role. And they probably didn't feel the need to have a sound-a-like do her voice. Not everyone played Saint's Row 2.
    • Her quitting drugs may have had something to do with it. Everyone knows that smoking cigarettes deepens your voice (I'm no expert on drugs, but I assume marijuana does the same). I haven't played Saint's Row 2, but I have heard Eliza Dusku's voice and assuming she used her natural voice it's low and raspy like a typical stoner. Shaundi stops smoking weed and her voice eventually repairs itself. A similar thing happened to Don Messick, Scooby Zoo's original voice actor. He stopped smoking several years before he died and as a result, he lost the gruffness in his voice required to perform Scooby's voice.
      • Incidentally, that is one of the main reasons she became a Scrappy.
    • Her role was originally going to be greatly expanded within the storyline. Snippets at the end of this article: elaborate a little. Shaundi had a full character arc, but it was considered too "dark" for the game along with several other parts (Killbane nuking Stillwater!) and got cut.

  • So in the penultimate mission when the villain threatens to frame the Saints for blowing up a local landmark, the Boss responds "The Saints ain't about domestic terrorism". So what the hell would you call going on a rampage in a major American city with a tank, attacking the police with attack choppers, riding a flaming quadbike through the streets, unleashing zombie hordes, blowing up buildings, and just about everything else they do in the game then?
    • Business. All of those acts were meant to help gain control of a part of the city, or they were meant to give the Syndicate the middle finger (and the Zombie thing was an accident). Blowing up a famous monument doesn't affect the Syndicate in any way, so why would they bother?
      • That still ignores that the Saints have racked up a pretty impressive body count and likely billions of dollars of damage to achieve their goals. They make any domestic terrorists look like little leaguers.
      • It isn't ignoring though. The Saints do what they do to gain control, profit and so on. Domestic terrorists do the same thing to terrify and cull whatever native population they're working against. Boss is violent but there's a purpose beyond violence for fear's sake.
  • What exactly was so great about the Saints before they became corporate whores? What couldn't they do anymore?
    • Maybe Gat felt they've sold out and haven't been "keepin' it real", so to speak. Even bank robberies are seen as publicity stunts (IIRC there's one line from the armored helicopter at the beginning that says 'This publicity stunt is over!'). They've become less about being "gangstas" and more about being celebrities, more concerned with their brand name and the profits than about being feared and respected. In other words, they've become 'The Saints/Ultor Media Group' as opposed to 'The 3rd Street Saints'.
  • How did Oleg know so much about the layout of the Syndicate Tower?
  • What was the point of that whole sequence where STAG attacks the penthouse, storywise?
    • I think it is supposed to be destroyed at that point, given the fact that you gained a new stronghold (Safeword) in the previous mission chain, and the whole point of the last mission leading to this one is to protect Pierce while he and the Saints evacuate the penthouse. Somehow the game keep it fully functional afterwards, which is confusing storywise.
  • What happened to the Boss between getting in Zimos' van and waking up in the brothel?
    • If you listen as the scene is loading, you hear conversation snippets, the sound of the peopel slowing down and getting distorted, so it is likely that these represent Boss getting drugged, stripped, and put in the "waiting cell" as Zimos does his thing.
  • In Night Blayde Returns, Viola makes an offhand comment about how the Boss' methods have led to "Three Dead Friends and a Coma". By my math, there are four dead friends. Lin, Carlos, Gat and Aishia. So, who is she not talking about?
    • It's likely she just didn't count Aishia because she wasn't a Saint, and was referring to the Boss's coma during the 1st and 2nd games gap.
    • Even if Aishia would have been counted, Aishia got herself killed rather stupidly of her own accord. She wasn't killed as a result of one of the Boss' plans. Johnny Gat and the Boss very clearly knew it was a trap and Aishia was told she wouldn't be harmed if she didn't say anything. If Aishia had been quiet, she would have survived and the ambush would have pretty much played out exactly the same.
    • [[spoilers: It's because Gat's not dead. Maybe Viola knows something about the Zin?]]
  • Why does the Boss need to buy Steelport's Planet Saints outlets? Doesn't the whole chain belong to the Saints to begin with?
    • It's probably a franchise.
  • What was the point in the Daedelus? It was so pointless. All it did was shoot buildings at random. It was so high up that they didn't even know where the saints were (given that they were just shooting all over the place, and not where they were standing out in the open). Even if they figured out the general area, the Daedelus covered so little that the boss was able to very easily run to the HQ and grab a helicopter with no resistance at all. All the Daedelus accomplished was a lot of civilian deaths, and for no apparent gain.
    • Because it was blown up before it could do anything. The Daedalus was STAG's attempt at scorched earth; the situation was out of control so they would just level the city. It's why Monica wasn't going to authorise it.
  • So in deckers.die, Matt Miller/'s avatar was a giant dragon. This means he'd have to be plugged into the network, using a NEMO chair... but the Deckers only had one NEMO chair. Furthermore, how the hell are they masking the signal if it took an entire freaking power plant to mask the other one?
    • Micro Soft was hacked a few years ago. Microsoft. A multi billion dollar company that would be harder to crack than the Pentagon. And Matt is an electronic god. If you know what you're doing you can work around something and get it to work in a way it's not supposed to, with relative ease (think getting your XBOX high def without the proper cables or TV, except on a much grander scale.)

  • In the mission "Pimps Up, Hos Down," how the hell did the boss sober up so fast? When they wake up they can't even walk straight. In the foyer, they're talking about how amazing the drugs are. By the time they get to the basement, aside from minor vision problems they're totally sober, able to talk properly and telling Zimos what a terrible plan this was.
    • The Boss is not a lightweight. Indeed, he/she has experienced the exact same situation prior (minus the being nude part) in Saints Row 2 after being abducted by the Sons of Samedi.

  • The final Sadistic Choice makes no sense to me. The whole game, and most of the binary choices, has been about the Saints having become spoiled celebrities rather than real gangsters, but the actual choice you're asked to make is "kill Killbane or save your best friend and Burt Fucking Reynolds". Killing Killbane might be more indicative of a gangster attitude, but nothing about wanting to save your allies says "corporate whore". After taking that option, the Boss inexplicably makes up with STAG and the government and does the Saints movie without the player having indicated in any way that they wanted to do anything of the sort. Am I missing something here?
    • It's less "corporate whore" versus "finish Killbane" and more "friends and reputation" versus "enemies and fear". The former choice is sticking by your friends and cleaning up your image, to whatever end, whereas the latter is going back to your routes and sacrificing something so that people will fear and remember you for more than lunchboxes.
  • In the good ending, Kia knowing about Aisha's death makes sense since a previous mission revealed she was a massive fangirl of her. But how did she know about the deaths of Lin, Carlos and Johnny?
    • By doing some simple investigative work and/or prisoner interrogations? At least two of those deaths are public record and the third is known to everybody in any one of four separate gangs, at least two of which STAG has been fighting the whole time. Hell, anything that's common gossip among the Saints they could probably just have gotten out of Josh Birk, given that he was living with your crew for a while and has a working pair of ears.
  • I don't get how Shaundi and Viola being found in the wreckage of the Magarac Statue is supposed to make people believe that the Saints bombed it, rather than one of their enemies. I mean, anyone with half a working brain can tell the Saints, for all their flaws, aren't fanatical enough to use their own as suicide bombers.
    • With STAG's influence and presence, it probably got spun into a situation where STAG's apparent defense of the statue lead to the bombs being detonated prematurely rather than risk being disarmed.
Saints Row 2Headscratchers/GamesSaints Row IV

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