In Nora Arendt's character page This trope appears,
Bitch in Sheep's Clothing: She really is a Nice Girl, but Holo discusses with Lawrence that she's a "bold sheep" or "a different animal entirely" that wears sheep skin.
I do not think she actually fill the requirements for that trope just because people talked about her and referenced hiding something under the wool. From the Trope page it is seems she would actually have to do something cruel or mean to be a bitch in sheep's clothing, rather she appears to be a nice girl and gave no indication otherwise.
I have been getting majorly spoiled for the end of the novels by some recent updates, since the spoiler tags don't work in history view. Is this to be expected of multimedia works or should the page be restricted to the anime version? Is there any precedent for having separate pages for two versions of a work that are at very different stages of the plot?
Edit: At the very least can we restrict to content released officially in English?
Edited by AttemptingReason Hide / Show Replies
As for splitting the page, it's possible to use Spice and Wolf for the the Light Novel and Spice and Wolf for the anime/manga. We could also just limit the page to the official English release. If you want to see tropes regarding the rest of the series that has been released in Japan, you could always go to/create a page for the series on Japanese version of this wiki.
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Restricting content based on language seems a little heavy-handed to me. If the series is finished, there will be spoilers. Content is more important to this wiki than the form it comes in. Withholding information in that manner is sort of...dishonest.
So a guy named Golden Alex just edited the article to change all mentions of "Holo" to "Horo". While I have no confidence that this wasn't done in a fit of fanboy pique, it does highlight the fact that we have no consistency for using Horo/Holo across the wiki.
This is, I'm afraid, a completely dead-end issue that we can't ever resolve, but frankly, I think if we have to settle on one, we should use the official spelling. Why? Because it's official. Whether or not the author wanted it (which I have still not seen any proper source for, by the way), the fact of the matter is that it's the spelling the English releases use. I can't regard forcing the entire article back to "Horo" as anything other than sub-elitist vanity.
Edited by BornIn1142 Hide / Show Replies
I wrestled with this when I did some major cleanup on Nov 9 and checked into it here, Wikipedia, Yen press, and a couple Japanese sites. My conclusion was that her name is pretty unambiguously Holo. The only support for Horo is alleged, unsubstantiated, Word of God, and fan translations. Every official source, translation, and even the character's own (bad, cursive) handwriting have Holo as her name, so that's what we put. So as far as I could find, it is quite resolved, just like Obama's birthplace. That doesn't mean everyone accepts it.
Dang. There are a lot of things that I like about this wiki over Wikipedia, but I sure do wish we had their editing and history capabilities. Or at least a revert button. Might as well get to it.
Edited by Westrim I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
I'm not a fanboy. *Shakes head in amusement* But the original fanbase was first introduced to the series with her name being Horo. Also, I'm not sure about the Word of God, but if that's true, then shouldn't the fanbase [casual/hardcore or not] respect the authors wishes, rather than those of translators?
But we have no source on the Word of God. For all we know someone read it on some random forum. And without a source for it, I think we should just stick with what we have from official sources.
Edited by SilentColossus
"Holo" isn't something the translators pulled out of their asses though. They were instructed to use it by the anime's producers. In other words, basically also Word of God. As far as the anime is concerned, her name is Holo. We can visually verify it from her signature on screen. If the anime's production team got it wrong, well, that's another issue, but it's still the name we're officially saddled with.
And really, there's no basis on which to favor the "original fanbase's" impressions over those of all the people introduced to the series by the US releases.
I should note that's the anime, manga, and light novel translations that refer to her as Holo. It's across the board.
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
Still, if you listen to the voice acting (original, not dubbed) it sounds more like Horo than Holo to my ears.
I disagree, the L/R in Holo/Horo's name sounds just like the L/R in Kuloe/Kuroe's name and both pronunciations are ambiguous. I can hear it either way if I try. It doesn't matter in the face of other evidence, anyway.
I don't believe that the officially translated works count as Word of God, tho'.
As I see it, if I was to write a story in a language that lacked a common L pronunciation, and named a character Red, or Roderic, or Rorand, or really anything of that nature, and the work was translated into a language that did have a common L, then no matter how your meddling execs spun it, there would be no reason to rename them Led/Loderic/Loland.
As for the R/L by ear argument, I figure that one as invalid as well. Since the original language lacks a common L, the most logical assumption for the pronunciation would be Horo.
I realize it doesn't change the story in any fashion to differentiate a single letter of a characters name, but it bothers me nontheless.
Also, why the fuck is Lawrence's name spelled Kraft? [old joke]What is he, cheese?[/Everyones said it already]
- Verbal Tic: Not a tic, necessarily, but Holo speaks rather uniquely - she uses a speech pattern based off of oiran
speech. So the page quote in normal Japanese is watashi wa Kenrou Horo da, but she says it wacchi ya Kenrou Horo ja.
Is it accurate to say oiran in particular, a term which seems to refer to a prostitute? It seems more like the generic "archaic Japanese", and gods and such in anime use it all the time.
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Jeez. Okay, I know this reply is way too late to be useful anymore, but I wanted to point out that I've read an interview with Koshimizu where she explicitly mentioned oiran speech.
"I Watch It For The Economics It's understood that most viewers are watching this series for their fill of sexual tension between a cute wolf girl and a nerdy man. Some viewers who are above such things obviously say they watch it for the economic discussions."
Above such things? There is nothing wrong about liking their interaction. And it's less of their "sexual tension" and more about "well written romantic banter". Is their sexual tension? Yes, but it's at realistic levels. And Lawrence isn't all that nerdy, he just isn't that good with stuff outside of economics.
Edited by SilentColossus Hide / Show Replies
Sorry about that. I'd just woken up when I read it, so I may have misunderstood the intention when I posted.
Edited by SilentColossus
So are we going to give Wolf and Parchment a new page of its own (it's currently a red link), give it a separate section below the Spice and Wolf tropes, or just blend them in together?
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.