Amateur Veteran
Should the Pony of Shadows and Stygian get separate folders (the PoS on the major villains page, Stygian here or wherever else)? I know that Nightmare Moon is treated as a separate character for character sheet purposes than Princess Luna is, and the same for human Twilight Sparkle and Midnight Sparkle, and it seemed to me that the way the Pony of Shadows and Stygian are characterized and treated differently from each other (plus how the end of the finale seemed to treat them as at least somewhat discrete entities) justifies a similar approach.
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I think for now we can keep them separate. Nightmare Moon, comics aside, has had her personality and characterization expanded to the point she can definitely be considered a separate entity from Luna. Stygian and the Pony of Shadows have not. It's also not clear what the end of the finale means in regards to them being separate beings or not, it's vague. If anything, the way the Pony of Shadows constantly talks as if he is actually Stygian implies they are not separate, so perhaps the pony Stygian being pulled out of the Pony of Shadows was just him showing through the power he summoned and then fighting against the darkness in himself or something.
Honestly, the same can be said about Sci-Twi and Midnight Sparkle. They aren't treated as separate characters or separate versions of a character the way Luna and Nightmare Moon are — for all intents and purposes, Midnight and Sci-Twi are the exact same character as each other, just at different levels of magic and sanity. However, there are still enough differences and unique tropes between regular Sci-Twi and Midnight Sparkle that they get separate entries. I feel the same would apply to Stygian and the Pony of Shadows.
That said, I don't think this is necessarily a pressing issue. I figure it may become more necessary if/when Stygian shows up again, because I expect that he will probably be written and used differently once he's a normal non-superpowered non-evil pony again, but we'll see.
Agreed, a later appearance by him of significance would likely qualify him to be split off.
What about Garble? Should he go under Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon or Chancellor Neighsay?
Should Garble go under Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon or Chancellor Neighsay? Because I'm not sure which character he should go under.
Does human Twilight really belong in this list? She may have caused a few problems, but she never had any malicious intent until the magic corrupted her into Midnight Sparkle. By the same token, Luna should also be considered a "redeemed villain". (If anything, Luna deserves to be here more since it was at least partly her own jealousy that drove her to villainy.)
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Considering that this page only has a redirect, and that her evil side (Midnight Sparkle) is treated separately on the Equestria Girls characters pages (indeed, like Nightmare Moon), then yes, she doesn't really fit here (unlike Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer) and I wouldn't mind seeing it gone.
The page is getting big and unwieldly. My suggestion to correct this would be to move King Sombra back to the main antagonist page. Indeed his redemption is something happening in the comics, and those are of doubtful canonicity. Thus, I'd rather we keep only canonically redeemed characters on this page.
Since Season 6 confirms Starlight is a main character now, does she get her own page back?
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Related to that, her image should be updated to show one with her real cutie mark, and preferably her new mane style.
The fantasy RPG videos that play in my head are amazing.
Word of God seems to think otherwise:
https://twitter.com/TheBiggestJim/status/762741485531897856
Should we move her folder back here for the time being?
Um, I might be missing something here, but I'm pretty sure Sombra was -not- redeemed in any way, shape, or form in any of his canon appearances. The only times we see him in the show he's either been obliterated outright or is engaged in open war against Equestria with no intentions whatsoever of even contemplating capitulation.
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The comic's are treated as canon by this wiki (like it or not) since they are approved by the same people who approve of the show's content, unless directly contradicted by the show.
For example; Nightmare Moon is treated as a separate entity from Princess Luna in the comic's yet the show treats them as the same entity while being vague enough on specifics such that it does not outright contradict the comic's portrayal. Thus this wiki treats the comic's portrayal as canon since it expands upon without substantially contradicting the show.
A major difference in the way a character is portrayed is apparently not enough to warrant Canon Discontinuity per this wiki's standards.
Those comics also portray his life before we see him on the show. Him being 'redeemed' means that he was evil at one point and then made a Heel–Face Turn. As far as I'm aware, the comics have him good at one point, but then he makes a Face–Heel Turn and remains a villain for the rest of his life.
That does make him more complex of a villain, but it doesn't make him redeemed. Given that he canonically died as an evil maniac, I don't think he's right for this section.
His redemption (and revival) happened in a later comic then his origin.
Would anyone object to me adding "Eldritch Abomination" to Discord's list of tropes? He fits all the criterion quite well (in my opinion, anyway);
- The show's typical laws of magic and reality don't apply to him. When Twilight attempted to reverse the damage he'd caused in "The Return of Harmony," her spell had absolutely no effect.
- No one knows where he came from.
- His MOTIVES are incomprehensible. "Make sense? Aww, what fun is there in making sense?"
- He's bizarre-looking and can change his appearance at will.
- He's incomprehensibly powerful; only the Elements of Harmony and a highly power-charged Tirek have been able to match him.
- He is able to traumatize the protagonists and drive them to madness (notice that Twilight's breakdown in "Lesson Zero" is IMMEDIATELY after his appearance).
Makes sense to me, though the last bullet point is a stretch with the Lesson Zero bit; that can just be left out.
Is there an order they should be organized (order of appearance, reformation)?
Removed from main page, as there is a cleanup effort on one of the pages linked here underway and I am not sure what to do with this entry:
- Jossed: In-Universe it's reputed to be a remnant of Nightmare Moon, but it's actually an entirely separate entity predating Nightmare Moon and seeming to have no connection to her. Given the tale was retold over 1000 years of legend with no reliable records of it being kept, it's likely the two villains were combined into one.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman