South Park

Why is Wendy disliked? I think she’s much better than characters like Randy or Gerald.

Now I am not saying it is sexism but oh fuck it's sexism.

That depresses me.

I cannot stand bigotry and really wish that geek spaces (and people in general) would just toss bigotry in the trash.

In all seriousness, I actually like Stan and Kyle. But Wendy fascinates me on multiple levels. Definitely one of the most complex characters ok the show.

Wendy is one of my top 3 characters.

It seems that besides WickedBinge, Stan is the least discussed character when it comes to SP discourse, for seemingly good reason. The only time I see essayists/YouTubers do talk about Stan is "You're Getting Old", and it's usually less to do with Stan himself and more to do with how he represents Matt and Trey's then changing psyche.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Dec 8th 2023 at 9:54:06 PM

Okay so I’m watching that Wendy video and yes unfortunately the hate does come from sexism.

Pretty much because of the part of the fanbase that idolizes CARTMAN.

The show itself points out that you should not ever be like Cartman repeatedly.

The only thing that ever annoyed me was the handling of Stan and Wendy’s relationship. That’s less on her and more Trey and Parker for the way it’s written:

Granted they never wrote it naturally because it was entirely dependent on Trey's actual love life.

Yeah, Wendy is great.

Yeah the show does have an issue where Trey tends to insert himself a bit too much.

It’s why I call Randy “Trey Parker’s midlife crisis”.

First it was Stan, then it was Randy.

When they're somehow still running the show by their 60s-80s, they'll probably make Marvin "Grandpa" Marsh the main character/self-insert next.

I love Johnny so I'm excited to watch this video.

I do think Wendy has a writing problem in that she never gets plots anymore that aren't related to gender or romance and that irks me, especially in a show mostly written by the same two men whose gender commentary often feels clouded by their personal relationship hangups. She often amounts to serving the same role as Kyle if he only focused on sexism. But early Wendy was better because she was allowed to be as crazy as the guys instead of either be the voice of reason or the source of stress in Stan's life.

(I suspect some of this was due to the unfortunate need to change voice actors, as Mary Kay Bergman brought a specific energy to her characters and they phased them out for a while after her death; I feel like they never really gave them a chance to shine again beyond gender commentary, with the exception of Liane who got really good development down the line and maybe Sheila once or twice.)

But the fandom has a serious sexism issue for sure. Even the "progressive" fans obsess over the boys while writing off the girls as either obstacles to shipping or just generic cutesy soft girls. I've written about it before and it still grates on me. Justice for Rebecca Cotswolds!

I highly disagree that Stan and Kyle are the exact same character. Or at least they haven't been in years, and at worst they're backsliding into being too similar due to being Out of Focus. But Kyle in seasons like 21 is very distinct from the more laid-back and cynical Stan.

Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 11th 2023 at 3:43:14 PM

The same thing happened with Chef, really. It seems both his and Wendy's VA had a positive influence on the show, but once they were gone, that influence clearly went away.

The issue is that the show is ultimately, for better or worse, handled by Matt and Trey almost exclusively in the writing department.

It’s why Randy went in the direction he did. I think it’s also a big reason why Wendy got demoted.

It’s weird to think that Wendy was once the official fifth lead and not Butters/Randy.

Chef is still my favorite South Park adult because he was the only, relatively speaking, truly sane and reasonable person the kids could look up to.

Plus Isaac Hayes was just great in that role.

Yes, and he brought a sensitivity to black issues to the show that never really came back after, not even with Token.

Why did he leave the show again?

He joined Scientology, and he ended his contract with SP accusing them of religious intolerance over their depictions of Scientology. Or rather, his entourage of Scientologist friends seems to have done so after Hayes became mentally vulnerable after a stroke.

And then Matt and Trey wrote an episode in which Chef becomes corrupted into a pedophile by Scientologists, and then gets turned into Darth Vader by them...

You know, maybe Isaac Hayes has a point there. Say what you will about Scientology, that's a pretty fucked up accusation to make. There was a legitimate criticism to be had, but in hindsight, that was a really wrongheaded way to go about it, especially given how popular that sort of accusation has become among the alt right.

Edited by Redmess on Dec 12th 2023 at 9:22:33 PM

We don't know the whole order of events but it appeared Hayes was on good terms with Trey and Matt and it was evident to everyone on the inside it was Scientology quitting the show for him. That is where the subtext is in repurposing Chef quotes to make him evil and the line "Remember him as he was, not what the Super Adventure Club made him."

It's still interesting that the Scientology episode won a Peabody, that indicates people are not as scared of open criticizing them as it may seem.

What happened was that Hayes actually didn’t mind the episode mocking Scientology, but the Church of Scientology did so they took advantage of Hayes having a stroke and quit the show for him.

Lily Simpson's released a two hour analysis on South Park's handling of trans issues.

Once again, she makes tons of good points.

What's the verdict?

I'm mostly done watching it, like 3/4 done, but I haven't reached at the conclusion point of her video yet.

Such a shame that Board Girls had good take on gate keeping…until we get to “Heather”. I can compare that to Garth Ennis’ “The Russian” coming back in woman’s body complete with “being comfortable in new body”. Like the show had Tweak and Craig as queer couple as well.

Edited by t209 on Dec 14th 2023 at 10:29:08 AM