Avatar (James Cameron film)

Yeah but once he got roped in, he turned a 100-something pages long book into 3x3 hours of film.

edited 22nd Apr '16 12:43:55 PM by Julep

Pretty sure it was the studio that wanted a trilogy.

Also on his defense, the idea of turning into three movies was not his. It was New Line's (as New Line was pretty much on the brink of bankrupcy).

I do think, at the very least, the Avatar sequels won't be quite so bloated as the Hobbit turned out. Because there isn't any source material and they're being designed as a set of movies from the start. (Relatively speaking).

I think when Guillermo Del Toro was involved, he wanted two movies and to flesh out the Necromancer stuff. Which would probably have been fine, it's just that the Necromancer stuff totalled to about 15 minutes in the end product and there was way too much filler otherwise.

edited 22nd Apr '16 12:52:03 PM by Zendervai

Two movies is what it should be, honestly. One movie's too short to tell the whole story properly, three's too much. Two's perfect.

People have even said how A Unexpected Journey is actually a pretty solid movie and the one that gets closest to the spirit of the books, but Desolation of Smaug and Battle of Five Armies just feel like one movie spread out to be two with tons of filler.

"James Cameron has been talking about doing more movies since the first movie. It has nothing to do with "getting how things work now".

what I mean is now hollywood allow-no in fact encorage more movies, before getting a sequel was most of less weird but even them there is plenty of off material around or it should be with big projects

and unexpected journey feel to....whimsical? maybe is because tolkien material but a moment if eel stright of a disney books, just.....weeeeeeeird

The Hobbit was a children's book, yes.

Yeah, the original Hobbit book was a kids fantasy novel, pretty much. It's why there's a bunch of weird stuff in it that doesn't really fit in the whole mythos.

Like, Tom Bombadil is horribly out of place in the Lord of the Rings...but he probably could have been added into the Hobbit and it wouldn't have messed with it too much.

I can see why peter wants the other books to be more Lord of the rings-little, it make the audience having a mood whisplash around.

That was the main thing with Jackson's adaptation of Lot R, it had a slightly more dark fantasy feel to it with the visuals and overall tone and I feel it worked well, but the Hobbit isn't very much like that, so there had to be some changes.

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On the actual topic, I think I've more or less made my opinions clear on the original movie. With that said, if there was good enough press behind a sequel I'd be willing to give it a shot on its own merits. I like the idea of having the conflict be between different Na'vi tribes, but a conflict without recognizable live-action actors like that pretty much never happens in Hollywood.

Is Avatar really in the same league as Titanic, though? The latter has a slew of moments, quotes, and that Celine Dion song that people will instantly recognize when you discuss or reference them. Those 11 Oscars it won helped further cement its status as more than just a technical marvel.

Sure enough, you aren't going to hear much about it on any given day, especially from casual moviegoers, especially because it is 18 years old as opposed to 6. There's only so much to discuss about a single movie, after all. But then, I don't believe anyone ever suggested that this wasn't true for other big blockbusters. The real question is whether a movie has made enough of a splash that one can recall it well enough and could conceivably talk about certain aspects of it, even if only briefly.

I simply can't say this is the case for Avatar. There aren't as many iconic things about. Maybe the destruction of Hometree and maybe Jake's introduction to the Tree of Souls. Maybe. But even then I should think that "I'm the king of the world!" and Leonardo Di Caprio drawing Kate Winslet like one of his French girls are moments that are much more recognizable.

A big historical ship going down and a bunch of people dying is more relatable than native american analogues IN SPACE actually managing to fight off resource hungry white people?

I think Titanic's success was also more stunning back when it happened compared to what came before. It obliterated everything else when it comes to viewers or money made, but Avatar only barely beat it ten years later.

If someone were to run a 100m in 9'57 tomorrow, I doubt it would be as memorable as Usain Bolt doing 9'69 while celebrating for the last 30 meters, or him beating his own record by more than 0'1 (which is huge) 2 years later. He not only got a record, he got a spectacular record (2, in fact).

edited 22nd Apr '16 3:07:16 PM by Julep

Nitpick: Titanic had two separate theatrical releases. Its 2nd place position at the box office is a combined income from both.

Much like the titanic broke into two-ish pieces.

And how I've only seen half of the movie.

I still see people talk about the infamous door scene and how it could've fit them both, and the lifting scene was parodied a hundred times, oh and of course when he painted the girl, Celine Dion's song, the dancing scene, the spit part, etc. Titanic had a ton of noteworthy stuff that's made an impact and is well remembered. Avatar doesn't.

Avatar had the Navi kind of become a meme, I guess. I mean, they have a really distinctive appearance and all.

The only scene of Avatar I remember being parodied much is Jack and Neytiri having sex, by Harry Partridge and Stephen Colbert.

You have been warned.

edited 27th Apr '16 8:58:02 PM by Tuckerscreator

Though I guess the whole thing about the plot being a bland cliche'd ripoff of Dances With Wolves is a meme in and of itself.

And Pocahontas, and Fern Gully. And there's the fact that they've been called smurfs. They were in that Hunger Games parody movie too.

Nobody cared about that parody, though.

No, but I mentioned the tiny impact Avatar made by being part of the parody.

So here's something odd I saw on a Youtube comment and went to verify. On the fanfiction site Archive of Our Own, there are 113 Avatar fanfics total. For the Epic of Gilgamesh, a story transcribed up to 4000 years ago, there are over 400. And no, they aren't all Fate Stay Night fics. Which itself includes fanfic of the Epic.

It includes fanfics with lazer sharks.

edited 27th Apr '16 11:54:17 PM by Tuckerscreator

Looking at it right now, the site only counts 35 fics for Gilgamesh. :I

And Avatar's number isn't really remarkably low compared to many of the other movies there.

34 cuts out the numerous crossovers with works like Harry Potter or Star Trek. And as I said, Fate itself includes fanfic of the Epic, so its derivatives count as impact of the original ancient tale.

If that's still not a good comparison, compare that specifically Star Trek 2009 has over 7000 works, and it came out the same year as Avatar but only made 1/9th what Cameron's film did.