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Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#201: Mar 28th 2010 at 11:45:09 PM

-YOINK-

Battle causes a residual buildup of hormones. Once they reach a certain concentration, they catalyze the evolution process, resulting in rapid growth and significant alteration of body structure.

Some foreign objects such as an Everstone can draw the built-up catalyst out of the bloodstream through the skin, delaying evolution.

edited 28th Mar '10 11:46:12 PM by Pykrete

Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping from you're not your Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#202: Mar 29th 2010 at 12:35:00 AM

But what about Pokemon that don't evolve by level?

"Wait, it's IV. Of course they are. They'd make IV for Dreamcast." - Enlong, on yet another FFIV remake
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#203: Mar 29th 2010 at 12:56:59 AM

Green Rocks where rocks are applicable.

Happiness evos are basically a variation of level evos.

The trade and trade+item...I can't think of anything remotely plausible for why people would just happen to discover that a machine made for overriding registry imprints happens to induce evolution. The anime seemed happy just treating them like level evos for the sake of Gameplay and Story Segregation.

Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#204: Mar 29th 2010 at 6:58:29 AM

wild mass guess Evolution as a response to battle is a way of conserving resources in the wild- evolved Pokémon are stronger in battle, but also consume more precious food. So, mostly the individuals primarily responsible for defending their packs go through it.

Trade evolution is a response influenced by a rapid shift in environment. Trade Items are just gameplay.

...Sorta; I need to think this through more.

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping from you're not your Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#205: Mar 29th 2010 at 7:27:12 AM

Trade-item evolution could be explained as the item being a "key". Some Pokemon have DNA intermediate between trade-stable and trade-unstable. The item serves as a catalyst to begin the change.

"Wait, it's IV. Of course they are. They'd make IV for Dreamcast." - Enlong, on yet another FFIV remake
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#206: Mar 29th 2010 at 8:42:20 AM

^^ It's not necessarily a rapid shift in environment. It could be between next-door neighbors.

AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#207: Mar 29th 2010 at 9:06:37 AM

Because gradual metamorposis might leave pokemon vunerable to natural predators, they developed what people often label "Evolution" as a defense mechanism - they accumulate experience, energy, and hormones, until they reach a "critical" mass, whereupon they experience a powerful and sudden growth spurt.

Certain Pokemon exposed to the energy from the catalytic Evolution Stones will undergo a triggered mutational growth spurt.

Others will undergo that mutational growth spurt when they undergo the shock of being sent through the Trading System Server at either the old Cable Club or the new Wifi Club facilities.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Neo_Crimson Your army sucks. from behind your lines. Since: Jan, 2001
Your army sucks.
#208: Mar 29th 2010 at 9:07:41 AM

Maybe the trade evolutions DO happen naturally but over large periods of time and in some cases with long term exposure to certain reagents (Regicite or King's Rock, Metal Coats, etc.). Whatever happens during the trade sequence triggers these reactions spontaneously.

Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#209: Mar 29th 2010 at 9:25:59 AM

^ And that's what I was getting at before. The trade machine would have to switch registry imprints so the League can track traded pokémon properly, and the necessary energy burst to do that can do several things.

For trade-item evos, it can catalyze the held item to trigger it right there. Note that long-term exposure to the particular substance in the wild has been observed to cause evolution on its own (see Clamperl).

For no-item trade evos, genetic stagnation among the species has caused a defect in the process — the experience barrier to the final form has risen prohibitively high. Wild Golem, Machamp, etc. are rare indeed (Gengar less so, they have all the time in the world).

When the trade machine was first invented, it wasn't until late beta testing that it was observed to trigger these evos during the registry switch by sheer circumstance. Since then, the trade machines are built with the secondary purpose of accommodating this side effect.

edited 29th Mar '10 9:26:23 AM by Pykrete

Neo_Crimson Your army sucks. from behind your lines. Since: Jan, 2001
Your army sucks.
#210: Mar 29th 2010 at 9:45:15 AM

Speaking of Gengar, what about those dex entries that state that they're not exactly ghosts but rather inter-dimensional beings? What if their evolution isn't so much maturing as getting used to our dimension. Becoming more and more corporeal as they go along. For example Gastly is almost entirely intangible, Haunter less so and is starting to incorporate the features of a Gengar. While Gengar seems to have a normal, physical form.

Why they tend to congregate towards areas associated with death and the supernatural (burial sites, so-called haunted locations), is either coincidence. Something special about those places (there's definitely something weird with Turnback Cave if Giratina is able to manifest there). Or knowing Gengar, they hang out there on purpose to mess with humans.

Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#211: Mar 29th 2010 at 10:52:53 AM

^^ That works; would be nice to justify why development is linked to particular substances beyond Green Rocks, though.

Also, how does the registry imprint work?

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#212: Mar 29th 2010 at 12:24:06 PM

I dunno, that was as much of an Ass Pull when I brought that up during the pokéball thing as anything else I've said tongue Here's how I envisioned it.

The pokéball has to infuse the registry imprint...somewhere on the pokémon during capture (this is the few seconds where it can break out, due to superheating of the pokéball during the process; see near the top of page 6). The imprint facilitates several things:

  • Easy verification of its trainer.
  • Automatic registration with the League.
  • Secure recall. Only the registered pokéball may convert its associated pokémon to energy. This prevents "recall theft" by just beaming someone else's pokémon, as well as insulating them from capture by other pokéballs.
    • Exceptions exist that have been known to override the imprint, see Snag Ball. Additionally, a legal trade should be made through a trade machine to swap imprints and update the registry.
      • Naturally some people will forget to use such a machine and just exchange or hand over balls. This may cause them grief later when they get a registry mismatch at a Pokémon Center, League function, or legal dispute.
  • Restraining of unruly pokémon by forcing the recall decomposition. Note that if the pokéball is faulty or damaged during capture, the pokémon may be able to break out occasionally regardless.

edited 29th Mar '10 12:30:16 PM by Pykrete

Deathonabun Bunny from the bedroom Since: Jan, 2001
Bunny
#213: Mar 29th 2010 at 2:43:08 PM

Some foreign objects such as an Everstone can draw the built-up catalyst out of the bloodstream through the skin, delaying evolution.

Perhaps when an Everstone does such a thing, the built-up catalyst forms deposits around the Everstone, eventually turning it into one of the elemental stones. It would also explain why the stones cause sudden evolution, as they're essentially experience point jewels.

One of my few regrets about being born female is the inability to grow a handlebar mustache. -Landstander
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#214: Mar 29th 2010 at 3:43:04 PM

Experience points are probably too abstract a way to look at it; physical development (both in maturity and exercise) is likely the key contributor in triggering evolution, though in some cases external minerals do appear to be involved. (I'm not touching Mt. Coronet right now.)

I'd see the Everstone more as just an inhibiting substance.

^^ And we come back around again to the Pokéball's operating principle mess...

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Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#215: Mar 29th 2010 at 3:54:58 PM

Yeah, I wasn't sure exactly what you were asking. I guess the imprint is just like an energy signature soaked into them that's used for various purposes, and the trade machine has to switch them. People were surprised when it triggered evos in mons they thought didn't have one due to genetic problems, but once they tracked down what was happening, the next model of trade machine was built specifically to accommodate that.

edited 29th Mar '10 3:56:17 PM by Pykrete

Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping from you're not your Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#216: Mar 29th 2010 at 8:47:14 PM

^^ I'd say Mt Coronet has high levels of magnetic iron.

"Wait, it's IV. Of course they are. They'd make IV for Dreamcast." - Enlong, on yet another FFIV remake
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#217: Mar 29th 2010 at 9:57:20 PM

(My watchlist says I may have accidently sent you on an Archive Binge, Pykrete. Sorry!)

Hmm... still, you'd think Magnemite's own magnetism would drown out any environmental sources, and it's a bit unclear why they'd make a trigger anyways. But the Magnemite entry's probably a ways off yet.

The Charmander entry is still a bit sparse. Anything else on the Kanto starters?

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Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping from you're not your Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#218: Mar 30th 2010 at 12:46:17 AM

We need to discuss why Charizard has its wings, making it the first starter to change types upon evolution.

And just why the heck Kanto Grass-types are more poisonous than in other regions. Increased pollution?

"Wait, it's IV. Of course they are. They'd make IV for Dreamcast." - Enlong, on yet another FFIV remake
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#219: Mar 30th 2010 at 9:40:55 AM

Charizard's wings are probably for easier travel in their native mountain-filled/volcanic region. They fly less than they actually catch the updrafts and glide.

Kanto Grassers are mostly poisonous to try and evade those that would prey on them, not many would chomp down on a toxic salad.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#220: Mar 30th 2010 at 9:47:11 AM

Extending that, is it reasonable to assume that Charmander would tend to lack a strong fear of heights? Besides the mature form being a Flying type, presumably whichever parent(s) are the caretakers would transport their young on their back.

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AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#221: Mar 30th 2010 at 9:53:15 AM

They'd make friends with Bagon easily.

It would not be unreasonable to expect to see wild Salamence and Charizards amiably raising their babies alongside each other as long as food and territory is plentiful.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
ElementBlue Resident Psychokinetic from clapclapclapclapTexas Since: Feb, 2010
Resident Psychokinetic
#222: Mar 30th 2010 at 10:08:17 AM

While it's still somewhat relevant, Mount Coronet's effect on Pokemon associated with magnetism could come less from the makeup of of the actual place, and may have something to do with frequencies put off by the Spear Pillar or legendary Pokemon up top. It's seen that Arceus is associated with Unown somehow, and the Unown at least put off radio signals that can be detected by Pokegear, so who's to say there's not all kinds of crazy waves coming from Arceus or where he's been for the last couple millennia?

edited 30th Mar '10 11:41:47 AM by ElementBlue

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Rainbow Pomeranian Lover from Central Illinois (Veteran)
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#223: Mar 30th 2010 at 10:35:04 AM

About Kanto's Grass types being more poisonous, maybe it does have more pollution/poison in general? The first set of 150 (the Kanto Pokemon) have the most Poison types, so either Kanto has more pollution or the Grass types developed secondary poison characteristics because they otherwise would be easily beaten and preyed on by things like Grimer and Koffing, since the only thing Poison types are strong against is Grass types.

About Kanto possibly having more pollution, that's very possible, given that it seems more urbanized than the other regions (especially compared to Hoenn, which has a more nature-oriented culture, a place like Fortree City would seem out of place in urbanized Kanto). Also, thinking that the place things like Bellsprout and Oddish, both Poison/Grass types can be found is near bodies of water by cities (Route 24 by Cerulean City and Route 13 which is near the Power Plant), perhaps they are part-Poison because the water is polluted from Cerulean City and the Power Plant? Also, Grimer can be found in Celadon's ponds as well, which is another sign of pollution mentioned in the series itself (I think someone in Vermillion mentions it).

This, of course, would go with Kanto and Johto (which has many of the same Poison type Pokemon) being based off of more urbanized areas of Japan.

edited 30th Mar '10 10:45:24 AM by Rainbow

Crazyjosh Wannabe Arcanine from The Music Department :) Since: Mar, 2010
Wannabe Arcanine
#224: Mar 30th 2010 at 11:15:38 AM

With the Charmander evo line, wouldn't the growth of wings be more gradual? like when a tadpole grows, it doesn't just suddenly sprout legs, it takes time to grow, but it still lasts for a long time with out them (comparatively speaking) and functions perfectly well, but for the social aspect it's be more of a patriarchal structure, as Charizard are well known for being aggressive, so the strongest male would rule over a large pack, does that make sense to anyone?

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Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#225: Mar 30th 2010 at 11:33:56 AM

Though you can also find the Poison Oddish in the Hoeen and Sinnoh regions, and Bellsprout in the Battle Zone...

So, probably not an uptake of contamination so much as the non-poison Grass types simply not being able to thrive in Kanto.

^^^^ I suddenly have this mental image of a Salamence and Charizard sitting down to tea on a crag somewhere, watching their Charmander and Bagon play together. It's cute. waii

^ Aggression isn't always a patriarchal trait, though. I don't think real-world reptiles tend to form social groups, though Pokémon do show higher intelligence and likeliness to form social bonds... Did the Charific Valley episode show much useful?

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