World Of Warcraft

To follow up a bit on my previous post, if I were to say "Sylvanas raid: who else is in there?" aside from the obvious choice a Prime Val'kyr, my number 1 choice (even edging out Nathanos) is actually Lady Ashvane.

Whatever Sylvanas and Ashvane are plotting together is very secretive. If it's on such a strict need-to-know bases that not even the people who broke Ashvane out of prison were allowed to know, we can plausibly extrapolate that it's more then just general war planning against Kul Tiras.

Which likely means that Sylvanas's plot with Ashvane, whatever they are, would prove highly unpopular among the rest of the Horde. And of course Ashvane has arguably less than zero loyalty to the Horde as an organization.

If there is going to be a raid, I think we should have some Alliance characters who have wronged the Horde die for once.

That would show the writers are sincere.

Lady Ashvane sure likes giving us reasons to not like her, does she? x_x

Pretty sure she was set up to be a Hate Sink.

Were she and Grand Marshal Garithos separated at birth?

Hey, be fair, at least Ashvane hasn't been shown to be outlandishly racist.

....Yet.

Least Ashvane hasn't massacred civilians while acting like she's a honorable person who never hurts innocents.

Edited by Monsund on Mar 16th 2019 at 7:58:22 AM

You mean like Arthas?

Ashvane did lose her husband during Daelin's attack on the Horde, so she might be harboring resentment over that. Resentment that might only apply to the Kalimdor Horde.

...Assuming she didn't have her husband murdered and then made it look like the Horde did it. Which is something that is absolutely consistent with her current characterization.

For the record, I actually don't think we are getting a Sylvanas raid, not this expansion anyways. Right now I'm betting on N'Zoth being the final boss of 8.3, and we already know Azshara is slated for 8.2.

Ashvane, if she is a raid boss will probably be in 8.2. She got that Kraken and Sea Giant from somewhere after all. The Sea Giant I could write off as an oddity, but the Kraken? And not just any Kraken, but the same Kraken that was called to attack the eastern seawall of Kul Tiras by corrupt Tidesages. Who do the corrupt Tidesages ultimately serve? Queen Azshara.

Which means it's quite possible that at least part of the reason Sylvanas jailbroke Ashvane was to figure out her connection to Azshara. Whatever Sylvanas is planning, those plans need to at least account for Azshara.

RE: Demetrios

That and several of the Alliance characters introduced in Wo W

RE: Falrinn

What would your opinion be on Alliance NP Cs like Halford, Rogers and the 7th legion, not racial leaders, becoming raid bosses?

Edited by Monsund on Mar 16th 2019 at 8:43:38 AM

I'm okay with Rogers going, but I feel like Wyrmbane is fine, he's a veteran of the war of the sands and the Northrend expedition and has worked with the Horde in the past, he doesn't have any malice or vengeance in serving the King like Rogers does, he's just a soldier doing his job, no matter the enemy, it's just that the enemy now is the Horde. You can mention the part where he targeted emissaries, but I feel like that was such an off-handed thing that happened, and in a World of Badass even an emissary could kill you if given the chance (ESPECIALLY when it comes to Trolls).

Rogers I'd be fine if she went off the deep end and we ended up having to kill her, especially if this is the last hurrah for the faction conflict, with Jaina and Genn finally cooling their heels a bit (Genn in the novel and Jaina after Baine's betrayal), Rogers would be the only really high-ranking Human military figure left who fights for a grudge's sake and hatred of the Horde.

I wish Taylor was still with us.

Edited by NaraNumas on Mar 16th 2019 at 11:59:37 AM

RE: Nara Numas

How about the worst of the Explorer's league like Vanndarr Stormpike, High Marshall Twinbraid, and Muninn Magellas being bumped off?

At the very least for Halford, Talanji should make it clear she'll never forgive for his act of terrorism against the civilians taking refugee in her city.

Remember not only were the ambassadors unarmed they shouted phrases like

• Why are we being attacked
• What is to become of our race
• I thought we were safe

Two of the speakers Halford had mercilessly assassinated were even the Last of their kind.

Edited by Monsund on Mar 16th 2019 at 10:11:42 AM

Marshall Twinbraid is already dead.

And Vandarr Stormpike is not a member of the Explorer's league.

Edited by Resileafs on Mar 16th 2019 at 2:47:28 PM

RE: Resileafs

Marshall Twinbraid was never confirmed to be dead.

Vanndar Stormpike was an affiliate of the Explorer's league, with the support of Magni Bronzebeard, he was sent for the taking and culling of Frostwolf's home for the valley of Ironforge.

I feel like this isn't the first time players have been sent to kill ambassadors and other political targets in order to disrupt relations. And compared to the scale of other atrocities in Warcraft, I feel like this one ranks rather low on the list. It's more of a grey moment. It's not like the Alliance has ever really been friends with the other troll tribes either.

I also checked the NPCs and some of the speakers do have abilities that they attack you with and they do fight you if they spot you. So they aren't totally defenseless. And since the quest requires 12 non-specific speakers, I still believe the Drakkari and Shadowtooth Emissary likely aren't killed canonically. You can choose to kill them, but chances are most players won't since they're hidden downstairs in a building on a higher level of the city.

He is the final target of a Horde scenario in Mo P, and the scenario ends with his death. I don't see how this can result in anything but his death.

The Stormpike clan is unnaffiliated to the Explorer's league. They went on the offensive for Alterac on their own initiative.

I do recall a mirrored questline back in Cataclysm where you kill the opposing faction's ambassador to a Centaur tribe in Thousand Needles.

...That was a very uncomfortable quest. You kill the opposing faction's ambassador just to find out what the other faction is offering to the tribe, then you gather a bunch of Pyrite (aka "Fool's Gold") to try to trick the Centaur into making a deal with your faction. Then when they realize you tried to scam them and attack you, you kill a bunch of them and set up an oil drill right in the middle of their territory.

This course of events is identical no matter which faction you play.

RE: Storm Knight

Every NPC in WOW attacks you if they spot you including the farmers the Forsaken and the Death Knights kill.

If you're going to use that logic, then the Hillsbrad farmers the Forsaken killed weren't civilians.

And no they don't have weapons.

RE: Resileafs

Information on the site states their affiliation with the Explorer's league and information in the game states Magni Bronzebeard gave the order for taking and culling of the Frostwolve's land.

Its another reason why Horde players being forced to work with Magni makes zero sense.

That horribly written MOP quest has never been referenced again, so we can't say Marshall Twinbraid is canonly dead. Characters who have had quests asking for their death have appeared again.

Edited by Monsund on Mar 17th 2019 at 9:43:19 AM

Obviously they'd need Magni's acceptance to somewhere since they're Ironforge dwarves, but I don't see their link with the Explorer's league.

Both the Stormpike and Explorer's league are characterized as criminal archealogists and an Explorer's League leader Prospector Stormpike sends the Alliance PC to Alterac Valley.

As for Twinbraid, we don't know if that horribly written MOP Quest(which tried to guilt the Horde PC for killing a war criminal) is canon and characters with kill quests have appeared before.

I have no idea what you're going on about Twinbread. He's the final boss of the beachhead scenario for the Horde in Mo P. That's all there is to it.

RE: Resileafs

Twinbraid wasn't the boss on Beach head.

No, there was an optional Wrathion quest where Twinbraid is described nobly, yet an orc who defended tauren in the barrens is described as the scum of Azeroth by Wrathion who does a nice job showing his Fantastic Racism.

I can link it if you want, the quest was removed ages ago.

You're right, I was mistaken because he was an ally on the Alliance version of the scenario.

Still, doesn't change the fact that he's dead if Wrathion sends the Horde player to kill him.

RE: Resileaf

The quest was removed and that isn't necessarily the case, like Gorfax Angerfang was a target of Alliance quests, yet made appearances three expansions later.

Technically Nathanos is as ‘permanently dead’ as Twinbraid, Alliance had a full on level 62 raid quest to kill him back in vanilla. We didn’t see a thing from him till legion.

Edited by Memers on Mar 17th 2019 at 10:54:22 AM