World Of Warcraft

RE: Falrinn

Yes, the Darkspear/Zandalar storyline is easily my favorite, but Vol'jin was still meanspirited and pointless. The Loa thing seems to be an Author's Saving Throw after the terrible reception to having Vol'jin pointlessly killed by a Mook after being able to do anything as war chief.

The lack of Horde heroes isn't visible in the Darkspear/Zandalar storyline, its visible whenever there is a conflict between the Horde and Alliance, wherein the former has minor novel character doing everything and the former has an endless arsenal of demigods to put down.

As well as Legion content, where the Horde player seems to spend all their time working for Alliance NP Cs who go off on anti Horde rants with a member of the Horde standing right in front of them.

Blizzard stated as early as BlizzCon 2016 (which is the BlizzCon before BfA was announced and the first BlizzCon held after his untimely death) that Vol'jin's story wasn't over.

While the details may of been in flux back then, I do believe that Vol'jin was always meant to return in some capacity. The guy's patron deity was the Loa of death after all.

But more to the point, author's saving throw or not, that doesn't change the fact that I find the current Vol'jin arc FUCKING AWESOME!!!.

Also, I'm not certain what you are referring to in regards to anti-Horde rants. Tyrande had a notorious one in the Val'shara questing, but that got replaced in beta with her simply acknowledging that past conflicts have existed with the Horde but the current situation is more important.

Edited by Falrinn on Dec 3rd 2018 at 9:47:16 AM

RE: Falrinn

Keep in mind, the bad reception to Vol'jin's death had been clear before BFA.

I am greatly enjoying the Zandalar s storyline as well, however I don't think it undoes the drought on Horde heroes which is a separate issue.

As cool as Vol'jin being a loa is, it doesn't entirely erase the bad taste of his death, unless he actually gets revived for real as in able to interact with the physical world and be a Horde leader once again.

Alleria went off on Anti Horde rants while questing with her. Horde players were also forced to quest with the Explorer's league.

This was the same expac that also felt the need to deposed Thrall and give the Horde no representation in an expansion with their greatest enemy. Its like orcs are only ever used as badguys at this point.

Edited by Monsund on Dec 3rd 2018 at 8:14:28 AM

So, did they hint who was the dark force that put Sylvanas in charge?

RE: fasoman1996

Currently its unanswered.

Related, anyone else remember when the Darkspear were supposed to mistrust the Forsaken?

Edited by Monsund on Dec 3rd 2018 at 8:32:45 AM

We've only ruled out a few people it isn't (Bwonsamdi, Lich King, and Eiyr didn't do it)

them changing the itemization of island expeditions doesnt change the fact island expeditions in and of themselves arent very fun to run unless you enjoy randomly exploding trash mobs for 5 minutes.

Plus there's the question of how Vol'jin became a Loa, which the 8.1 questline implies was not what the being who advised him to appoint Sylvanas wanted

I guess it's true in a sense that Vol'Jin's death was meant as a counterpart to Varian's, but not in the way you're insinuating where the writers get so butthurt whenever an alliance characters die that they have to revenge kill a horde character (yet somehow have no problem with killing off said alliance characters in the first place). The Broken Shore was meant to be the big punch in the gut to the player that setablishes the Legion as a threat and sets the stakes for the entire expansion. Seeing just Varian and Tirion bite it likely wouldn't have been impactful enough to Horde players.

Varian's death is more climactic than Vol'Jin's because it was the sendoff to his character while Vol'jin's death obviously wasn't. Even you admitted that he wasn't even dead in the original draft, just MIA (yet somehow still insisted that Blizzard meant to kill him off for good). The Broken Shore cinmeatic is made to vilify the Horde from the Alliance's perspective. The Horde version shows that Sylvanas had to retreat in order to save the horde forces from obliteration.

Missing would have been a lot more interesting, especially with Sylvanas starting the war. A face to face could actually air a lot of the issues with the Horde directly with two legit leaders, possibly with a balance struck.

From what I see, the Alliance fans got REALLY super gung-ho in vilifying the Horde, and Blizzard's decisions on the Horde is like supporting that view, starting with making Sylvanas act even worse (and passing it up as, 'Natural progression, son!'), the burning of Teldrassil...

So what was meant to be 'from the Alliance perspective' eventually seeped into the Horde being made to be uncomfortable overall. Because Blizzard just wants the Alliance to always look like the victim, the moral high ground, like 'Everyone in the Alliance can do bad shits, but their bad shits will be no worse than Sylvanas.' Allowing Alliance players to constantly boast their 'moral superiority' on the Horde players when they were in a most unfortunate condition. Go give every Awesome Moments to the Alliance, Horde got nothing. Will probably never get anything.

Except maybe areas or cool items? I dunno, those were never relevant to narration or moments of awesome.

Edited by ChrisX on Dec 4th 2018 at 10:04:19 PM

RE: Druplesnubb

I never said the writers were butthurt, don't put words in other people's mouths.

I said misguided as in the writers weren't thinking of the effects and that Vol'jin hadn't been allowed to do anything anyhow.

Note "Vol'jin: Shadows of the Horde" said Vol'jin would face trials as Warchief that would make most wish for death, yet instead Legion just killed him off immediately and anti climatically by a random Mook. Clearly that wasn't the original plan.

Yet stuff like that doesn't happen to the Alliance. Even when they did stuff that should look bad to the Horde, people like Baine magically know stuff they shouldn't have available such as Hawthorne feeling bad about firebombing Taurajo, thus giving him the right to attack and making it a crime for tauren to defend themselves.

RE: Chris X

Whenever the Alliance does something bad now, The Dog Shot First is immediately applied as soon as possible.

MOP even depicted the Horde player as evil for killing an unrepentant Alliance war criminal who committed terrible crimes against tauren and goblins.

RE: Memers

Basically as you said, people actually liked Vol'jin as Warchief to get invested in seeing him back, which he can't do now.

Edited by Monsund on Dec 4th 2018 at 9:21:18 AM

Except for the part where he totally can?

I've been thinking about the next expansion, and I think I figured out a key point.

Most of the hints have been pointing too the Shadowlands, but there's a lot of unknowns about all the whys and hows.

I think Sylvanas's goal, and the reason she was appointed Warchief, is to tear open the barriers to the Shadowlands. This will allow anything to cross in either direction with relative ease.

This is going to have some serious consequences, and I wouldn't suggest that Sylvanas intends this for benevolent reasons, but there might be a good reason for us to want those barrier's torn open. Such as if Azeroth dies and it's the only way to bring her back.

It also provides a free pass to bring back any character. And I mean any character. Arthas, MU Grom, the entire population of Teldrassil, anyone.

The downside of that, if true, people will add either "Deathwing 2.0" or "Illidan 2.0" to Sylvanas' resume, since this will obviously be a rehash either of the Cataclysm or the opening to Argus.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 4th 2018 at 12:43:55 PM

In a franchise as big as WoW there's always going to be some parellels with older storylines.

In the version of this event that I have in my head, there wouldn't be a lot of immediate physical damage to Azeroth, though the potential for damage is high due to the horrors of the Shadowlands being able to pass into Azeroth.

It's also not quite an Illidan parellel because the reason Sylvanas wants to access the Shadowlands need not be the same as, or could even be mutually exclusive with, the reasons we want to go there.

In a franchise as big as WoW there's always going to be some parellels with older storylines.

More seriously, I meant that in the vein that people already call Sylvanas Lich King and/or Garrosh 2.0. Whether or not the parallels are actually there is irrelevant as long the surface impression is, even if Sylvanas is taken in an entirely opposite direction.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 4th 2018 at 1:38:30 PM

Given the overall controversy of the current Sylvanas story arc, if the worst thing people say about it's ending^note the storyline's ending, not necessarily the character's end is that it parellels an older storyline, then I'd call it a win.

Regardless, the reason I like this idea is that it plays into a theory that's been floated but I never personally took all that seriously in the past because it was missing a vital piece.

The theory was that Sylvanas was put in her current position because she was needed for some sort of Shoot the Dog moment. But without any idea as to what sort of act that could be, and why it was so important that it was worth any damage she may do along the way, the theory didn't really grab me.

Tearing open the Shadowlands, because we have to go there for something, fixes that problem and pushes the theory into the realm of plausibility.

I appreciate all the good and positive theories Falrinn had for everyone. However, here's the one thing that kept me being negative:

The HUGE fanbase of WOW means that the majority of the fans would be majorly childish and immature (regardless of age) and not the type to try to see the possible future. So they wouldn't really care about what may come in the future, only focusing in the present being "SYLVANAS BAD! YAY ALLIANCE!" and not caring for possibilities in the future. And even so... Blizzard's tendencies to not use the well-thought, positive theories that the more mature fans could theorize might push people to 'not think too hard' (and by 'not think too hard', it's the above way of black and white thinking)

Edited by ChrisX on Dec 4th 2018 at 5:53:46 PM

In my theories I generally prefer to disregard how the fringes will react because there's always going to be some fringe or extreme group that reacts in the wrong way no matter what happens.

In terms of overall accuracy, I'm pretty pleased with my track record. I'm wrong more often then I'm right(excluding the broadest possible generalities, like theorizing "the next expansion will involve Old Gods" during Legion), but so is everyone else and I find I'm right at least as often as people who theorize mainly from a place of cynicism...and I'm having way more fun doing it.

And at the end of the day, fun is the whole point of the Warcraft adventure for me. Heck, I enjoy having my theories spectacularly crash and burn almost as much as I enjoy being proven right. Sometimes I'll create overly elaborate theories that I know are highly implausible just because I find it enjoyable to think about.

As for the subject of Sylvanas...if I'm going for accuracy what's important here is that the game is calling attention to the mysterious circumstances of her appointment. That means this is something the story intends to address directly and there is some purpose to Sylvanas's appointment, for good or evil and with or without her knowledge, that we are not yet aware of.

I don't pretend to know what that purpose is, only that it exists. My "tear open the shadowlands" theory is simply a recent thought that crossed through my mind.

For what it's worth I like the idea you have, and I've had the idea that Sylvanas was being set up to Shoot the Dog in a way no one else could. But that was mostly on the basis that whoever/whatever put her in charge was benevolently neutral.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 4th 2018 at 4:50:27 AM

8.1 will be going live in a couple days, so here's my understanding of how things are going to work day 1.

• Darkshore Warfront will go live and will immediately go into the Alliance attack phase. That means Horde players will be able to access the outdoor content until the attack phase is over. In both cases you will have to complete the intro questline to access the Warfront (I'm not certain if this is an account-wide unlock).

• Dwarf and Blood Elf heritage armor sets will be obtainable for Dwarves and Blood Elves who are level 120 and exalted with their home faction.

• Incursions will start. Which will provide a new avenue to level and gear up your characters.

Things that may or may not happen day 1:

• The first stage of the 8.1 War Campaign unlocks. I'm not certain what the rollout of the War Campaign is going to be so I can't say for sure when it will start. Regardless it is confirmed thar you will have to complete the 8.0 War Campaign in order to start it.

• The Saurfang storyline. I'm fairly certain that it will unlock day 1, but I'm hesitant to call it. It's equally possible it might wait until week 2.

• The 8.1 Vol'jin questline. I actually don't think this one is coming for awhile since it actually narratively works better as a follow-up to the Horde War Campaign rather than a prologue.

What chores need to be done for the new races?

As far as 8.1 content goes, get exalted with Proudmoore Admiralty/Zandalari Empire and complete the War Campaign (which will require raid completion in any difficulty, as well as the completion of the 8.0 War Campaign).

The new races don't release until 8.1.5, so there will probably be a final recruitment scenario to do there as well. Though I suppose like the Dark Iron Dwarf recruitment scenario it will probably be less of a "recruitment" scenario and more of a story that formalizes their role within the faction and lays the groundwork for their story going forward.

Zandalari Empire/Proudmoore Admirality at exalted, completion of the Zandalari Forever/Daughter of the Sea quest chains, and likely completion of a quest involving completing the Siege of Dazar'Alor that will only appear when the final wing of LFR unlocks in late February, which itself will probably need completion of the 8.1 War Campaign (which itself needs completion of the 8.0 one, no skipping allowed).

The latter part is a guess, but given trends and how the events of the raid is what's probably gonna mobilize both races to join their factions, we'll still have another 2-3 months to wait for our Zandalari and KTH.

Edit: 'd

Edited by NaraNumas on Dec 9th 2018 at 8:29:52 AM