The Legend of Korra

I think you mean Toph. Suki never showed up. Anyway I disagree. I think they found a good balance between making them relevant while not having them overshadow the new cast.

(2) Refreshing to read, because last I remember from this thread most seemed to think the OG crew shouldn't have shown up at all, a position I can't understand in the slightest. I absolutely hate when stories that take place in the same universe do their best to ignore what came before.

I think they found a good balance too, but I would've liked some explanation of what happened to Sokka. Little things like Aang's awkward vacation picture, Katara still being alive, Zuko being an ambassador, and his old VA voicing General Iroh, and the reappearance of Bloodbending and explosive Firebending went a long way to making this feel connected but not wholly derivative.

Toph coming back felt like a little too much.

I just think it's weird how they went "My brother and most of my friends are gone" and then turned around and added "Except Zuko and Toph. They're fine."

In fairness, no one had seen Toph in ages. Did they even know that she was alive?

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Sep 28th 2018 at 1:39:38 PM

Looking at the transcript, it seems like no one knew she was alive but no one really thought she was dead either. Bolin was under the impression she lived in Zaofu.

Even assuming "my friends" only refers to the Gaang+Suki that still means four out of six are dead. Toph wound up being alive but if she's old and missing for years it's a safe assumption she'd dead. That's assuming she's not referring to Mai, Ty Lee, Teo, Haru, etc as well. Presumably most of them are dead.

x5

I can understand people not wanting the Gaang to show up. Their story is over and them showing up ran the risk of them overshadowing the new cast. Being against them showing up makes perfect sense in that light.

Katara's original line about "My brother and many of my friends are gone" served the specific narrative purpose of telling us, "The old crew died off. Don't expect to turn around and, like, the next episode is hanging out with Suki and then the one after that is smashing rocks with Toph, etc. etc."

That line was basically a narrative tool to establish that the torch has been passed and this isn't the old crew's show anymore. Their story's over; deal with it.

This was back when they only expected to get one season for the show and didn't want to flood it with cameos from the old show. And, for the most part, they remained true to that goal. The old cast never really takes over the show. The direction of it remains focused on the new characters and their journey.

But seeing Zuko and Toph pop up again does make Katara's original line become kinda drama-queeny in retrospect. From a Watsonian perspective, it's entirely possible that she was referring to people she met after the original show ended or about secondary and tertiary characters like Suki or Teo.

But at the Doylist level, we all know who she was talking about when she delivered that line. The instant response is, "Oh, the Gaang is dead and will never appear again in the present-day." Because that was the line's original intent.

So they never did really alter the course from their intent when Katara first delivered that line, but the line does become a bit sillier in retrospect.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 29th 2018 at 7:40:42 AM

I still disagree because even with Zuko and Toph alive the line is accurate. Her friends were Aang, Sokka, Zuko, Toph, and Suki. Four of those five people were dead to her knowledge.

"But Zuko is still alive. Aren't you guys friends?"
"Eh."

I mean, "many" doesn't mean "all". Obviously some of her friends were still alive.

@ Kostya

Suki showed up in a drawing of the original team in the extended opening for the first episode. That's it. We don't even know if she and Sokka got together and had kids.

Old Toph was written well (perhaps TOO well). She had a lot of memorable moments with Korra, Aang's grand kids, her own grand kids, as well as getting into a fight and winning.

Zuko lost in his own fight scene, which was pretty much his only memorable outing. There was no flashback of him and Mai (if she ever ended up with him) as parents with young Izumi. And, arguably worst of all, there was no interaction between him and Iroh, even though the spirit portals were left open by Korra.

As mentioned in the Badass Decay section on the YMMV page, Katara was reduced to a healer, supposedly the greatest in the world (but couldn't heal Korra completely several times throughout the show). She also had no fight scenes, even though there was a conflict between the Water Tribes in Season 2, and the Red Lotus were hunting her children AND grandchildren down in Season 3. She didn't even turn up for Jinora's tattoo ceremony.

Also, Suki and Katara never got their own statues. Sigh.

@ Chariot

The writers should've stuck to their guns then.

What we actually got was spotlight favoritism shown towards some of the old team members, but several other important past characters with their own legacies were unfairly left in the dust.

I can't tell if that's in agreement with "they handled the Gaang well" or "they handled the Gaang poorly."

I think we're misconstruing what "most of my friends are gone" with Katara meaning "all of my friends are dead except those schmucks I don't care about." Yes it's funny that Katara would say that line while neglecting to mention Zuko, but, come on.

If Zuko is alive, and Toph is off somewhere, then yes, most of Katara's friends that she made when she was 15 plus the obscene amount of friends the average, sociable person will have made by the time they are in their golden years are probably deceased.

And even discounting all of that, as previously mentioned, the first season was written with the belief that it would be the only season.

I'm gonna clarify that my statements were in line with the opinion that the writers handled the Gaang poorly.

Some got a lot of spotlight and action, while some barely got any at all - if they were even mentioned in the first place.

And honestly, Zuko's the only one of the team that is arguably written well. Not fantastic, but at least satisfying enough.

I maintain that Toph's writing in LOK left a very bad taste in my mouth.

I personally found Toph's writing very inconsistent. I think someone else said they could accept police chief Toph and they could also accept swamp grandma Toph, but not both together as one singular character plotline and I think I agree with that sentiment.

That may have been me. If it wasn't, I agree with the sentiment.

I know it wasn't specifically me because I wouldn't have been that eloquent, but I can accept that whoever said it expressed my sentiments towards it quite accurately.

Just have magic illusion swamp Toph instead of dereliction of duty grandma.

I think there are three solid Toph characters, just with no bridge between the three. Why did the rule-hating Toph become a police chief? Why did the police chief with a lot of responsibility abruptly leave to become a swamp grandma?

She wasn’t very good at being a rule enforcing police chief anyway

I could actually see that progression, but we didn't get much focus on it. "I'm an adult and the inventor of a bending art, I should be responsible. I'll lead the police. Oh wait, I keep bending the rules. Okay, I guess I'll wander the world and maybe end up in a swamp or something."

If there were Toph-centric flashbacks maybe we would have seen a progression like that, but as-is it's just jarring.

Didn’t she open her own school in the comics? That at least is more responsibility and rules than she had as a traveling wild child

Hey, being part of the police allows he to beat the crap out of people without getting in trouble.

It's not her fault she's too awesome at her job.

No, that is totally her fault.

Shockingly, people change through out their lives due to a lot of factors.