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I still can't get over the... thing with Jade, personally.

That would have been fine if they hadn't lied for 15 years. If they had kept kanaya in the loop but they didn't.

Are you sure that would've been fine, though? Are you sure? Weird fetishistic shit has always been a part of Hussie's comics, but friend, there's a line.

They’d have had all the arguments during the time skip and we wouldn’t have to sit through it

Hu hu hu

I think the issue is that there's too many 'things with Jade'; the secret child, all the promiscuity, and whatnot; I don't think it was clear you meant the genitalia thing, hence the given response.

Personally I don't mind the genitalia thing at all, though I didn't read it if the issue was specific mishandling rather than just the idea. I think giving cisgender perisex characters unusual anatomy via shenanigans is fine, kinda cool even, and don't really change my kind at all when the motivation is fetish. I know a lot of people feel differently, though. And who am I to say people should be okay with something just because I am, y'know?

(That said I do kinda wonder if there's a gulf in opinion on this kinda thing among trans women between those with and without bottom dysphoria.)

It's a dog dick, though. Jade fucks Rose with a dog dick.

I'm not gonna fight you if you don't think that's gross, but I just find it impossible to think about Jade as a character without also thinking of that.

And it's extra weird, because Hussie said human/troll hybrids are possible via alchemy, even though a troll and human can't make a baby the usual way. So if they really wanted Yiffany (a character with the potential to be cool, if nothing else), they could've brought her in that way.

Oh, right, that.

Wow I really did just fail to consider that part of it could be the problem, huh. I wonder when I got so used to that sorta fetish just being a thing some people liked that seeing it outside of porn doesn't raise eyebrows for me anymore. Maybe it never did? Lost to time I guess.

I know I've been on the internet too much. It raised an eyebrow for me on first reveal but that's it.

I mean kanaya brought that up, but jade said she wanted a natural kid not just another ectpbaby the world is littered with. Trolls are poly anyway I the big problem kanaya and myself have is they lied about it for so long If when it first came up, and jade had asked to please fuck rose with her dog dick to make a baby, im sure kanaya would have been OK with it to help a friend and give someone motherhood they thought they might never have But they lied and hid it for years while giving human female troll Hitler the baby to raise.

Yeah, the breach of trust between them (between Kanaya and Rose especially) is the sticking point here. Feels both shitty and out-of-character for Rose.

[this was a bad post]

Edited by Sixthhokage1 on Feb 15th 2024 at 6:12:12 AM

whether or knot it's canine in nature is largely irrelevant, i think. it being canine in nature absolutely doesn't help, but imo the standout issue is that giving a cis woman a penis is treated as little more than a punchline that people laugh and recoil at.

and that's. really not cool. the idea that some woman's genitalia being weird is somehow a major topic that people HAVE to discuss is inherently transmisogynistic. and for a fandom that eventually became mostly made up of freaks and queerdos its just. so wildly out of touch and super uncomfortable. and frankly reveals how much of supposedly inclusive spaces have deeply rooted unexamined transmisogyny but that's a conversation for a different place

i mean, it's hardly the first time that homestuck (especially the post-canon content) was Not Great™ when it comes to touching on transgender topics, but everything surrounding yiffany is so incredibly uncomfortable and not in a good way.

and to be clear i think giving Jade a penis is a baffling and uncomfortable decision in the first place. we have zero trans women characters in the story and its frankly ridiculous that a plot point is about how weird it is that a cis woman has a penis came before actually getting a transgender woman in the franchise. i dont think it's inherently an unworkable plot point in a story, but it's incredibly obvious that homestuck just doesn't have the maturity to actually touch on that topic in a way that doesn't just seem like it thinks trans women's bodies are a joke. and, given my first few paragraphs, i don't think the fandom does either.

Edited by EpicBleye on Feb 13th 2024 at 11:08:35 AM

I had forgotten it was treated as a joke. That's a pretty fair take, then!

Also wow I sure did slip behind the veil of ignorance there. It was easy for me to jump to all the ways something interesting could be done with that, in very broad terms, completely forgetting this was as specifically written in Homestuck^2 which... given Roxy and Calliope, I would not really give the benefit of the doubt on handling gender stuff well. Which makes how I did give it the benefit of the doubt kinda weird!

This is the second bit of surprise introspection I got out of the dog penis conversation, what even.

Anywhosie, Yiffy should have been Ruby and should have been Jade's daughter with Rose and Kanaya as her two gay aunts. It even could have had an angle of it being behind Kanaya's back, but just... Not for the entire pregnancy and then 15 years after.

The update's valiant attempt to make that make sense, relying on Jade desperately not wanting to 'owe' her child to Kanaya's pity, is... weird? It's real weird?

In other stuff from that update, the way the characters expressed a lot of distaste for their ectobiological descendants really put me off. I guess I can't for sure say that's out of character, but that attitude gives me The Ick and it didn't exactly feel like I was meant to find it a flawed view. I think I may be weird here? Like I am definitely weird in how if I were duplicated against my will or without my knowledge I would not feel any violation from the duplicate's existence; or if somebody (for some reason) took my genes to produce people I wouldn't find those peoples' existence offputting, and that seems to be weird too? This is lacking a lot of the reasons I think people object to that (the descendants were had intentionally with knowledge and consent) but I think there is an X factor of distaste at the idea of someone sharing your genes that I just don't have, don't get, and don't much like.

I don't remember Jade's genitalia ever being played as a joke. The closest was trying to explain it to John in the least crude way possible and it going over his head.

Same. I definitely see how "Jade merged with a male dog, so now she has a dog dick and is super horny all the time" could be played for laughs, and it has the same vibe as Hussie's spicier, pre-MSPA humor, but unlike that stuff, it gave me the impression that it was actually supposed to be hot. And that's a little too close to zoophilia for me to ever be comfortable with it. Maybe more than a little.

No comment on the trans stuff because I don't understand trans issues very well and probably never will. I don't really think of Jade as a trans character. But I did think there was something ham-fisted about the comic's approach to trans representation and I'm not exactly surprised trans people aren't happy with it.

Edited by ThriceCharming on Feb 13th 2024 at 3:33:42 PM

Wait what? Since when has Jade ever been played for sex appeal?

I'm saying I thought she was used that way in the Epilogues. Those were the vibes I got and it skeeved me out. I obviously don't expect everyone to agree.

That was one of the things I found off-putting about the Epilogues, at least in retrospect. Jade had always been presented as The Ingenue and thus somewhat above romance and shipping and all (aside from Jadekat being hinted at toward the end of act 5), so to suddenly see her go goblin mode was just weird.

Edited by lee4hmz on Feb 13th 2024 at 9:40:04 AM

Important question: if Vriska typed "potatoes," would she do it like "pot8oes," or like "potoooooooo?"

You say pot8oes, I say potoooooooo~

—Let's Call the Whole Thing Off!!!!!!!!, Vriska Serket (from her self-titled album)

That sounds like what you'd call a potato gun (a potoooooooo pchooooooo).

>I sometimes think this topic needs a rename to make it clear its the Homestuck topic

>what do you guys think?

There's technically nothing stopping people from discussing other MSPA works like Problem Sleuth

whoa whats problem sleuth, some kinda homestuck spinoff? :o /s

no thats sweet bro hella jeff